EX60URG from the early 90s. I just acquired this machine. I'm going through it (changed the oil/filter and fuel filter today) and pulled the final drive plugs out. The final drives are full to the top and just a shade pressurized. The machine tracks straight, the final drives don't get hot and don't make any weird noises that I can hear from the operating cab. Reading through some of the other threads on the topic ( HeavyEquipmentForums & HeavyEquipmentForums ) it appears that I probably have a leaking 'duo cone seal' and something to do with the brake piston seal. Overall, this repair seems pretty straightforward - assuming that is all there is that is broken. Which part is the 'duo cone seal' that is referenced? It sounds like this service can be done with the track on? Finally, it would be exceptionally helpful if someone has a lead on a service manual for a EX60URG. If not that, an EX60-1 so I can at least have the undercarriage service. This is my first excavator. Any help you may be able to provide would be great.
Not the Duo cone seal but the shaft seal on the hydraulic motor where the output shaft goes into the planetary hub. The way into it is by removing the motor, just drain ,flush and refill the oil in the hub.
Thanks! So taking the motor off, I'd probably replace #40 O-ring and #41 & 44 D-rings to be safe. They all seem to be part of the motor-hub seal in some way.
While I'm not overly familiar with that particular drive hub I'd say yes I've never seen a schematic of the actual hydraulic motor only the way it fits the hub but when you pull it down everything will be easy and self evident. PS make sure you have all the plugs and caps for the hydraulics or you'll be sitting in puddle of oil when fitting the motor.
I'll give it a shot. Worst case, it doesn't get any better. I did notice today that the left side drive is also leaking out of the sprocket area. My presumption is that the pressure blew that seal as well. More to do I guess. The drive motor has plenty of power, doesn't get hot and the planetary doesn't make any weird noises. Good call on the plugs and caps. I'll need to acquire a selection. I watched a youtube video of someone disconnecting their drive motor and it was a fair gush. The hard part about this machine is that all of the lines are hard lines all the way to the motor.
The floating, or duocone (CAT) seal is two lapped metal surfaces running against each other, it's not likely blown out, so much as just releasing oil under overpressure. Drain the gearbox, replace motor seal, and run. It may well heal itself up just fine. Check it often for a while and it it's losing oil at an unacceptable rate, then open up the gearbox. YMMV
I'm down for trying to do less. I'll be visiting the JD/Hitachi dealer tomorrow for seals. A couple of Orings and D rings should be easier than taking the whole final drive apart. from what it appears, I don't even have to take the final drive out. Just the motor off the backside. The only thing that appears to be a PITA is the fact that this particular machine has hard lines all the way to the motor. Getting the motor out will be an exercise in patience.
You can do it
Update: I'll need to replace the floating seal as its leaking down without pressure now. sigh. I ordered the seal this morning. After watching a few hours of youtube and searching this site, I'm not too concerned. Does anyone know what kind of connection these machines use? They are hard lines all the way to the motor. I obviously need to plug the lines while I take the drive apart. Its not particularly obvious what the fittings are (JIC?, flat face? other?)
It will most likely be BSPP or metric special. MacGyvering is usually called for.
That's what I was afraid of. I ordered a set of these S ervice plugs . https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KKQ222H/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I'll see how it works out... As I'm a relative NOOB when it comes to working on hydraulics, any MacGyver options that you have found successful would be welcome.
Lots of options, you can drain the hydraulic tank but that's a pain, you can slow things down by sealing the hydraulic tank filler if need be with some plastic wrap and tape or rubber bands. Those yellow plugs look just the ticket, mostly for keeping dirt and bugs out, except for drain lines which will be direct to tank more or less and will try to empty the tank on the ground. Duct tape and rags was always a popular thing. I'm sure others will have better suggestions, but you're on the right track.
Pulled the leaking final drive yesterday. It wasn't as difficult as I was thinking. I was expecting a gush of hydraulic fluid out of the drain line - but it was more of a trickle. There doesn't appear to be a casing drain filter on this machine. Am I missing something? Was I just mistaken that the drain line is supposed to be a straight shot to the hydraulic tank?
Both track drives and the slew motor have casedrains which return to tank and are all connected to each other. Not all excavators have casedrain filters but if you are using say a mower then a filter is a good option.
Always read the manual. The case drain is for 'pump leakage' and doesn't function as a return. The other pressure line (rear when driving forward) is the return line.
The case drain is for cooling.
Got the final drive removed. Had to buy a 36MM wrench to get the pressure hydraulic lines off. Didn't have a 12MM allen socket either to get the hydraulic motor cap screws broken loose. I'll pull the motor off tomorrow. Interestingly, the manual says to 'grease' the floating seal oring surface.
Never heard of that. Reread it with the thought they may be talking about the metal ring faces?
I agree. Usually Duo-cone seal silicone rubber rings are installed by wetting them with isopropyl alcohol. The grease would be used on the faces of the metal rings in order to prevent any leaks until the seal assembly had chance to rotate and seal.
Got the hydraulic motor out. The D ring seals are indeed worn out. You pull the complete motor by removing the six large M14 socket head cap screws (part 48 above). The allen is an M12. Had to go buy one. Minorly messed one up removing them (they were on there ), but the dealer was happy to order one for $17 dollars. Pulled the front plate and removed the first set of gears - and hit a snag. There is a large 'Nut' (a threaded ring with pin holes) as Hitachi calls it (part 12 above) that requires a special tool #3129. Its a bar with a couple of pins that are 140MM apart that fits on a 1/2" socket. The nut is torqued to 362 Ft-Lbs, so I very much doubt that I'll be able to get it off without building a tool (or buying it from the dealer). There is a top tool (special tool 3131) that is simply a bar with a hole in the center that bolts down to the housing to give you something to lever against. That one is easy. So the question is this: is there a work around to building/buying the tool? I somehow doubt that I'll be able to take it off without a tool - whether I build it or buy it. Just looking for what someone else has done.
Built a tool with pins and the top centering bar tool and got the damned thing apart. The oring on one side of the floating seal was in about a dozen pieces. With any luck, I can get it put back together tomorrow. All the bearings look pretty tight and there are small amounts of wear products, but overall everything I saw other than the seals looks pretty good.
One of the suggestions from CAT is to put the floating seal halves in the freezer, it stiffens the rubber and shrinks the diameter, helps them pop into place. Biggest concern is that they end up as level all around as possible. Good luck!
Plus clean the ramps in the housing where the seal fits with alcohol or something like aerosol Brake Clean. This thread might give you a few installation ideas. HeavyEquipmentForums
For reference, here is the tool that I built to get the ring off. Turned out pretty well frankly.
Some details I suppose. I used M10 bolts as the pegs. I drilled and tapped the plate (1/2") for M10 after laying out the pegs (by hand with a divider). I had bought bolts that had an unthreaded shank portion. I cut the bolts off to give a peg that would stick out by the right amount. I was just a shade of on the outer bolt locations so had to narrow those pegs down just a bit to make it fit. Fits extremely tightly. My presumption is that the factory tool was somewhat similar. The torque spec for the nut is 632 lb-ft. I wanted to build something that could hold up to that amount of force.
Nice job on the tool. I dunno if it's the photo but in the 4th one that shows part of the planetary assembly it looks distinctly "grubby" for want of a better word. Is that just a trick of the camera.?
I agree... give her a good wash and double check the bearings, then what's our favorite lube Nige?
Seeing as the silcione rubber toric rings on the old duo-cone seal fell out in pieces it's my bet that what was in there before was an EP oil. In that case, can I have "What's an SAE 50 TO-4? for $500 please Alex".
The rest of the world used black Nitrile rubber torics Nige, but yes, we have a winner! CAT TDTO-50 FTW! See Alex for the payout though
Cleaned up the ring sealing surface on both sides and commenced to attempting to install the seals. Several hours of cursing later... I still haven't been successful. Unbelievably frustrated and exhausted. if the damnedable seal wasn't $377, I'd have sent it sailing out the doors of the shop. I tried installing it without the 'wire and zip tie' method and with it. I almost had it once and it popped back out moments after I took my hands off of it. I was using a plastic trim prying stick that was blunted off. That couldn't get me enough leverage, so I sacrificed a screwdriver and blunted it off. That worked a little better, but was still unsuccessful. The manual of course just shows a person pushing on the seal with their hands. It does say to "For easier inserting, use a bamboo spatula to guide floating seal O-ring while installing." The lip on the housing is very much intact. I just can't seem to manage to compress the oring enough to slip it past that lip all the way around. I get 3/4 of the way and either slip and push the oring too far down or the side that is down pops up. The freezer trick didn't seem to do anything one way or another I haven't managed to damage the seal - yet. Anyone have a bright idea? Or do I just keep banging my head on the wall and eventually manage to get it? Once it is installed, it should be a VERY positive seal... Oh and I'll clean everything up just fine. Bearings look great. The 'grungy' look is just a trick of the camera.
One weird thing. Attached is a clip from my EX60 service manual (the EX55 manual says the same thing). The thing says to apply grease to be bore of the housing and to the outer part of the seal. With all the talk about installing the seal dry and/or WD40/silicone spray I'm a little confused. Everything I've seen elsewhere talks about installing dry etc.
If all else fails, try it their way?
After a lot of hate and some rage, one of the two is installed. I was going to quit for the night, but couldn't let it go. The steel ring sticks up from the housing about 11.6mm / .45" evenly + .1 or .2MM. I have to go to the dealer tomorrow to pick up one of the M14 socket head cap screws, so I'll see if one of the service techs will talk to me for five minutes. I'll struggle with the drive sprocket side of the seal tomorrow. The cap screws are conveniently M14-2.00 X 95MM. I can get a 90MM and a 100MM, but no one sells a 95MM in that size that I can find. The dealer can get them for $19 with tax, so I ordered the one that I wallered out getting the motor off.
When you go to the dealer ask them if you can rent/borrow the installation tool for the seal. It makes installing them a breeze. Note there is a different tool for each size of seal. The only thing I can suggest is use Brake Clean or alcohol on the rubber and try to get the seal in while it's still wet with whatever you applied to it. You have to work pretty quick.
The second one was... anticlimactic. Took 10 minutes to install. I did use the freezer suggestion and some denatured alcohol. This is the side that came out in chunks (the side that was so hard was intact) and I'm thinking that its just a shade larger opening. Talking to their senior service tech, they don't use any tool other than 'something blunt'. He seemed horrified by the idea of 'using grease' as the manual says and they just install them dry.
Good to hear that the 2nd half didn’t give you the trouble the first one did. I’m amazed they don’t have a seal installer tool though. How absolutely 19th-Century.....
To my knowledge CAT is the only one that makes and sells seal installers.... anybody?
One final update. I got the thing reassembled and installed it today. No leaks (yet)! Was getting dark, so just had my son drive it back and forth for 15 minutes. No drips. I used three liters of 80/90 wt from Napa. The manual just calls for 90wt, but very few places sell straight 90wt these days. I have a couple of gallons, but save it for my '49 Oliver HG. Given the condition of the brake piston D rings, I'll swap out them out on the other side in the coming couple weeks. The D rings on this side were very worn. The piston just popped out by hand, no burst of compressed air required. Torqueing the main retaining nut was... interesting. I ended up using a 6' section of C channel and bolted the motor flange down to it using some shortened M16 bolts. Sitting on the C channel while pulling on the torque wrench seemed to get it done. Torque spec was 362 lb ft. I had to do it three times before I was able to get the locking pin to line up. I used my electronic torque adapter (its just a load cell) and it worked very well with my 3/4" breaker bar. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009GLITFW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Getting the track back on wasn't too difficult with my tractor and a long breaker bar. Overall, the process wasn't too difficult other than the one ring. I suspect that if I end up having to do the other, I'll have much fewer issues overall. I would say that having a tractor or other piece of equipment that can pick this up is an absolute necessity and being able to build the tool that can pull the nut off is also required. I'm kind of shocked that this job is $3500 - 6000 depending upon who does it. I suspect that the previous owner had known the seal was going out (it didn't leak when I looked at it) as he had been working the machine and was selling it pretty cheapish for a fast sale. He wasn't the handy type and stated that he wanted a smaller machine. If this is the biggest problem I have with the machine, I'll consider myself having gotten a good deal.
I have about 6 hours on the machine including quite a bit of tracking around. No leaks! I'll consider it job done at this point. Thanks to everyone that helped out!
Good job, but check the oil level just for giggles
Working on a similar problem. How did you get the brake piston out? The shaft wiggles but doesn't seem to come out. Here is mine (70-D Machine but same)
Hello, I'm stuck, any help would be appreciated. I have the same problem getting the large Nut with pin holes in it undone. It looks as though in one of the holes there is a pin or something down in it that is preventing the nut to turn. The "pin" I call it has no way to turn it out as its smooth. I looked on the other side and there's no hole to tap it out. Did you have this problem? If so, help on getting it out so I can turn the nut off would be amazing hence I've been looking at it for days now. Thanks
@Firefighter#935 , drive the pin inwards until it is deep enough to clear the nut. When the final drive is completely disassembled finish driving the pin through the ring gear.
I didn't have a locking pin that I recall.
I apologize for the delay of my gratitude for your help. I was able to get it out, finally. After getting all the seals and O-rings ordered and reordered lol, I'm putting it all back together. The floating seals I have read are tricky to install. Most say once they seat you will feel it kind of pop. I have been trying to install mine and I have a question or two. One is it's never really popped I don't believe, so I'm not sure if it's in all the way. I will add a photo for reference. Could someone let me know if the steal face seal should be all the way in "flush"? I have a small gap between the rubber and the steal on both halves. So, when I put the two halves together, it seems I have to press them together quite a bit to get the big nut on. Am I doing it wrong or am I on the right path?
Are you using any form of lubricant to install the large O-Rings.? Maybe this thread will give you some good pointers. Installing floating seals Floating, duo-cone, cone, metal face, toric ring, all names used to describe a very old seal design used primarily in undercarriage components, finals drives, and rollers. Recently a thread asked how to properly install floating seals. Installation tools are available, I'm pretty certain a Cat... HeavyEquipmentForums
Thanks Nige, I went with alcohol for the lubricant. Hopefully I can get it up and running again soon! I'm definitely going to need some seat time for my mental health after this for sure. Thanks again guys.