Have a small crack in the exhaust manifold casting - at the 'Y'. It will probably get larger over time. Is it an issue or a nuisance? Bolts look like there's no way they are coming out without a fight. 580M.
Top file is the crack, bottom file is a hydraulic rubber coupling from the oil resivour (or to the resivour). Weeps oil. Will this be difficult to replace?
What is that, a Case 580E? The hose coupling, if it's connected to the tank, which on an E is the right side loader frame, will require draining the hydraulic reservoir to replace the hose. Question I can't answer is do you have enough room to pull the connection apart before the pipe hits the engine. The crack is a nuisance at the very least, no turbo so it won't really affect engine power, but you should address it at some point. Forget about grabbing those bolt heads and turning them, ain't gonna happen. Most likely you'll simply have to cut the bolt heads off, start wailing on the manifold with a hammer until it slips off the remaining studs, the use a little heat from a gas ax to get the studs to come loose from the head.
first post says 580M
I had a cracked manifold brazed up and it was going strong years later when I sold the machine.
LoL, totally missed that mitch. And I'd do the same Billrog, if I got it off in one piece I'd definitely look at braze welding the crack, works quite well on cast iron
If it were mine I thank I would use a carbide bit to cut a half depth channel. Only where I could get to it with a nickel rod. Then run the engine full throttle for about 5 minutes. Shut it off and weld an inch or less. Full throttle for 3 minutes. shut it off and weld, repeat until finished welding. 3 minutes full throttle, 20 minutes idle and through. The only way I have seen them surfaced was on a big sanding belt. If you have it off for welding repair check it with a straight edge. If it is not very true it will crack again. All those bolts will be hard to deal with. Believe it helps to at least spot weld it before removal. If soot is not messing up the air filter maybe just run it. I have heard of hot engines kicking back on shut down, sucking cold air in the exhaust and cracking a valve. Believe that is more of a really hot gas burner issue. Bought a manifold for a JCB Cummins direct from China with PayPal for about $300.
Very good thoughts on the crack. Wish I hadn't picked two different pictures as it could make the thread difficult to follow - but that came from not being able to see... on the seeping hose issue, it looks super close. From the picture, you can see a larger 90 deg rubber fitting going to the resivour. I assume this larger hose is the return and the one seeping is supplying the pump? Thanks for all the replys. Very helpful.
To me the “crack” looks to be rotted out by the size of hole.
Just a thought but, have you considered removing the top plate ( with 4 bolts ) clean the inside and braze from the inside.
a replacement manifold would be best, but start soaking all the bolts with a good rust buster now for a few weeks and use the machine and keep spraying the bolts everyday and let it work deep into the rust, then I would weld new nuts onto the end of the bolts and try to remove, if they break they break and any that come out will be less to get the broken ones out of the head, then you can weld or braze the crack up all around the manifold and not what is just showing..tig welding with 309 stainless rod works or you can torch braze, depending on how thinned out the cast is....welding on the machine you may burn it to the ground if a spark goes in a bad place...not to say the room to weld is a bit tight..
Again, more good advice. I'm thinking a new manifold by late fall and abundant spraying of rust buster between now and then. I have another question for another thread. Thank you all for giving of your information / insite. Mike
I think I start by soaking those bolts at least once a day with a good penetrating fluid. Then possibly try the ones that still have some good head on them but if they don't turn fairly easy I'd cut the head off and then spry and tap on them for a couple days to loosen up any rust then keep trying to turn them. As for the manifold if you have the means and skill to weld or braze it up go for it but keep in mind it may warp some and need to be resurfaced in some way to get it flat again. A good bench type belt sander might do the trick. Another option is: https://www.dieselpartsdirect.com/3901223 Claims to be "Genuine Cummins" new manifold for $200.00 I'd also be tempted to use all new Cummins bolts when reinstalling. Guess you could also check what Case is asking for the bolts. Don't forget the gaskets! There is also this one but does not say who's it is, genuine or China or..... https://www.mddistributorsstore.com/620/cummins-3901223.htm
Does an M have a Cummins?
Well if you do a Google search on the part number cast into the manifold in picture "3901223" it sure comes up wit a lot of pictures that look like it and they are all for manifolds to fit a Cummins. I know Case and Cummins got together on engines for a few different pieces of equipment such as the engine used in the 1845C Skid-steer we had at the quarry where I worked. Did a little more digging and see that it looks like this manifold in the picture is most likely the same one as the 1845C we had as the manifold for the 1845C is a Case part number J901223, they only changed the "3" of the Cummins number to a "J" to make it a Case Part number. Below is the page out of the 1845C parts breakdown for example: I just checked the online price at a local Case Dealer here in NY and they show it for $179.00
You did indeed find the that the manifolds are the same Khansen !
Wow, I'm really impressed now. This is great. All from a picture because I just assumed it would have to come from case or after market. I would never have thought to Google the cast number! Kool, thanks.
Yes sometimes it will surprise me what you can find just by running a Google search on some obscure number or word or two.
Here is a link to the site where you can look up the parts breakdown for Case equipment. https://partstore.casece.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::model_find Just enter your model number and it should take you to a page where you can select by s/n range or other options.
Myself, by looking at those degraded bolt heads, I wouldn't waste my time with penetrating oil and bolt removal attempt. Heck no. I'm whacking the bolt heads off, beat on that manifold to knock it loose and pull it from the head, then I got some nice long studs to work with to remove them from the head. Some concentrated heat from a small brazing tip on the head where the bolt threads in and I wager they zip right out in short order with little fuss. But that's just me.
I know the Cummins B is a Case design built by Cummins and sold as a Cummins B5.9 and B3.9; and Case 6-590 and 4-390. My comment was because I thought the 580M was too new to use a 4-390 (B3.9). I thought they had an Iveco or Fiat.
You could weld a nut onto the head of the manifold bolts and then take them out the heat form the welding will heat the bolt and loosen it.
The method that I have used a number of times with better success is not a nut first, but rather a washer, no kidding. Take a flat washer roughly the size of the broken bolt and place it centered over the bolt. Using a MIG welder, burn some wire dead center of the bolt on high heat. As the puddle forms connect the weld puddle to the washer. Once this is done, tack weld a nut on top of the washer at three points. The washer seems to keep the weld from migrating to the non-parent metal and allows you to hang around for a moment at the parent metal, the broken bolt, and it seems to make a nice connection to the parent metal. Allow some time for things to cool and contract the parent metal, bolt, then use a wrench on the nut. I've used this method on several occasions, sometimes have had to repeat the process three or four times, but I've used it to remove some pretty stubborn stuck bolts.
I'll have to try the washer trick Willie, I have had pretty good luck with just nuts and cutoff bolts when there is enough 'stub' to get onto... I think what usually helps the most is turn up the heat as much as you can without blowing through it to get that sucker hot as fast as you can.
Also try the old mechanic's trick of metling some candle wax into the threads before welding the wahser/nut on to what's left of the bolt. Candle wax wicks into threads and is probably the best penetrating fluid known to man for loosening frozen bolts.
I have used the washer/nut idea several times and multiple times on the same bolt...it does work. Recently heard about the candle and will try it. Right now itsi soaking between use. Want the least resistance possible if they will come out on their own. Really good ideas. Will the new header need to be surfaced?
If by header you are referring to the exhaust manifold, no a new one should be made right. Now if "new" just means "new to you used" that might be a very different story.
I've use the washer trick when a bolt/stud is broke off flush, even slightly broke off down in the threaded hole, and have had good success
I had to remove an old [1988] manifold recently and agree with willie to just cut the heads off those bolts. You don't want any to break off flush - or worse. After the manifold came off I just heated to bolts up and sprayed them with pb blaster and let it cool. I did have to repeat the process a few times on some stubborn ones. I used vice grips and a little back and forth motion and all but one came out - the one that I first tried to remove with the manifold on that broke off with less than a half inch sticking out of the head - luckily. I tried a broken stud remover with a cam action that I had used successfully on a rocker stud but the tool broke on this one. I got one of these things: https://www.arestool.com/70016-bolt-stud-extractor - it worked slick. It seems like a much better bite than vise grips. I didn't have the access to weld and didn't want to have to pull the head. Good luck.
May I add... A mixture of 50/50, ATF and acetone makes a good effective penetrating oil. Also the use of a low torque impact (I like my cordless) switching forward and reverse with lots of patience can bring joy.
I would give the candle wax a try. Did it a couple times on frozen fasteners and seemed to help a lot. And the patience part is very important! If you can get any movement keep working back and forth and maybe repeat the wax treatment with bolt in the middle of the movement arc to have more room for the wax to wick into. Remember trying to save five minutes time by forcing it could cost you five or more hours time drilling and trying other methods.