I know there has been a ton of thread about Pilot verses other control patterns. I’ve read a bunch of them. I’ve been operating skidsteers (Bobcat and New Holland mostly) for 20 years. I likely have 15 thousand hours experience. My knees have the same amount of experience, and after 20 years are really starting to bug me. I’ve never even been willing to demo a machine with a different control pattern. I can make the machine do exactly what I want it do just fine with the controls the way they are, thank you very much. Recently, getting out of the machine hurts, walking hurts, knees are a problem after 8 hours in the machine. I realize my remaining time operating may depend on me changing control patterns. I demoed a machine last week with pilot controls. I can’t really remember learning how to operate the first time, but this experience was so frustrating I can’t explain it. I’ve had (far less experienced) operators tell me that after four hours they were buzzing around just fine. After four hours I was buzzing around just fine too. Just fine isn’t good enough for me. How long will it take to get the edge back? I want to be able to snap the bucket to eject material when grading. I want to instinctively drop the boom and dump the bucket when the front right of the machine dips a bit during a backfill. I want to be able to catch the piece of concrete that tumbles down the pile as I dig into it. I want to operate the way I can now. Second question is; can I ever operate as well with electric over hydraulic controls? The Bobcat Pilot controls I demoed have a slight delay, and also don’t feather the hydraulics nearly as well as I can manually. Do you learn to deal with this, or is it a permanent handicap? I may forget the Pilot controls, pop some more Advil and keep operating the way I can until I can’t. Anyone else have experience in this? Pete
Pilot operated machines are very different than linkage operated machine because you don't get the mechanical feedback, but there's no reason you shouldn't get the knack of it as time passes. The Bobcat electric joystick controls operate differently than other brands that use hydraulic pilot operated controls. Which is better? Probably never solve that question, it's all in operator preference. I can only say Bobcat electric controls are expensive to perform repairs and have to be calibrated when components are replaced.
The more hours you have in a particular system, the harder it is to switch to something else at least thats what I found. I would make the switch, spend the time to get proficient and keep working.
With all due respect, it sounds to me as if you're suffering one of the maladies of old age, and I don't mean arthritis, I mean being "set in your ways". Allow the benefit of the doubt, give yourself some time, and you might be pleasently surprised. I'd give it a few days, at least. All the stuff you just described are things that, in my humble opinion, come not so much from your muscles knowing how to manipulate a certain set of controls, but your brain knowing what you want the machine to do to interact with the material. They are two different skill sets, and the blending together of them is what makes a good operator. That muscle memory comes from repitition. There are lots of well-coordinated guys who never figure out the interaction between machine and material, and never become good operators. They couldn't even express what I quoted above, because they don't understand the nuances. As far as a comparison of the quality of different manufacturer's controls, I've never operated a Bobcat with the pilot controls, so I don't know how they compare to other similar types. I'd want to compare similar control setups on different brands before concluding anything. I have spent plenty of time on the older style New Hollands, Cases, and Cats. Of them, I've come to prefer the Cat pilot controls. Of the others, I always felt that I could do better with the Case style controls (bucket functions controlled by your hands), because I can flick my wrists faster and with more precision than I can flick my ankles. I've come to (nearly) dread getting onto an old New Holland. (And part of that has to do with my knees, same as you.)
i have come to like my gehl's t bar controls, you still move hyd valves, not elec, and the only thing your feet would do is run aux hyd if you had an attachment on it that used them, its similiar to reg pilot controls, left side drives, right side bucket n boom. i had an asv before and like it alot as well. the bobcat switchable controls are ok, but def not my fav after using the asv and gehl.
contrary to popular belief, mechanical hand and foot controls cant be beat as far as making your machine do whatever you want it to do if that is what you grew up on. from what i can tell, it seems that if you need to make a compromise and lose the least amount of capability, the case servo controls are your best bet. i will probably end up getting switchable iso h pattern electric controls just because that is what every manufacturer is moving towards. my goal is to become competent driving with any pattern.
Alot of its going to depend on the machine your in, I had a job this winter testing preproduction skid steers and ran about 8 different machines in all sizes and configurations. All were pilot controls, but depending on the machine the loaders all behaved differently, some sucked and some were good. If its a rubber tired unit I'm not impressed with how pilot controls work with a skid steer, when turning one side looses power and the other drives, which is fine on hard ground or if your in a tracked machine, sucks if your using a skid steer in sand or on someones grass your trying to not tear up, or worse yet if your spun out on ice and trying to turn the machine. I cant believe no one has overcome this hurdle on these machines in the 10 years this style of control has been out. (Maybe they have and I am un aware) Anyway I havent run case controls enough to be good on them, but I would say they may be the best bet just because you should be able to control the machines drive power a little better, I grew up on an 843 and an 853 and being able to feather the side your turning really makes or breaks how you can use one of these machines in my opinion. But anyway, to answer your question it all depends on the machine so try out as many as you can. The 1st time I hopped on a pilot controlled machine I had a heck of a time because I wasnt used to running a loader and I was used to running excavator, caught myself wanting to do all kinds of things while I was in that thing, by the end of the day I was able to do a few things with it. While I was operating this winter it just came down to the fact that there were things you could and could not do with some of those machines that I know I could do in the old 853.
I spent alot of time in a gehl ctl 60 before I started working were I am currently. Was pretty good with pilot controls. Now the utility co I work for runs mostly bobcat. I can still run pilots just fine, still prefer pilots with the exception of traction control. I like(with a rubber tired machine) being able to run both sides independently, spin around on 2 wheels, etc. As far as bucket control, I could care less for the pedals. I spent most of my time in a backhoe so its more natural for me with pilots. The case hand control pattern Im useless with, always end up thinking Im in a pilot machine and screwing up. I think gehl and case have the best pilots. A good operated has to and can adapt especially in todays day. I hear were you are coming from though, I'm 23 and alota of guys dont believe why I wanted 4stick foot swing case controls in the new backhoe I run. What Im use to, better control and feel, then pilots.
I am about to experience the same problem though not by choice! I have only been operating a skid steer for 6 months or so and mainly do backfilling of trenches. I have been using a late model cat rental with hand controls, my boss has just purchased an earlier model new holland 170 with foot/hand controls and wants me to use that starting in 3 days... I am weary that the company we are contracting to will expect the same finish on our trenches... Just wondering if anyone had any tips to help me pick up the new pattern quickly....
The oldest living man in the world ( 115 yrs) just passed away a couple months ago. When asked what he attributed his longevity to, he said " Being able to adjust to change"....lol, need i say more?
I would start spending some time in the machine before you are actually being held accountable for what it looks like. With only 6 months on the ISO pattern it should not take long to get used to the pattern change, but I doubt you will think much of the hand/foot controls after running hand controls.