Looking for a used Cat 259D3 and a lot of advertisers say that they do not guarantee the hours reported are correct. Seems they say it often on CAT skidsteers but not on other similar equipment, is there a CAT issue I'm not aware of? Trying to figure out how someone would fake the hours, I am sure that there is no way to roll back the electronic hours with a speed drill like on a very old car. But on a CAT skid steer with the advanced display should I look for evidence of someone disconnecting the control panel to stop accumulating hours, seems this would kill the engine. Or perhaps evidence of swapping out the control panel with a new one, seems this would have to be done by the dealer. Some kind of tampering inside the control panel? In manufacturing flows there is often a reset to make the digital time go back to zero before shipping to a customer, but I would expect this is something only a trusted factory tech with a special key could do. Other ideas?
It is possible to reset engine hours on any CAT machine in the panel or ECM with the factory password. But not everyone will reset engine hours in the ECM, so by connecting CAT ET you can see the real engine hours. The most reliable option is to contact the dealer and request the machine's service history, perhaps there you will see the real engine hours.
Changing hours on machines is really not as difficult as you think. Most of the time there is some indication of tampering if you know where to look. On CAT you can look in the ECU and see what the trip reports are, regen hours, idle time ect. Some machines you can look in the HCU or TCM and see operating hours. Some of them you have to just look at the condition on the under carriage and other bushings ect and just make a judgement. Like Dmitry said it never hurts to call a CAT dealer and see if there is service history and what the hours where ect. Point is there is no 100% sure way to know if the hours have been tempered with intentional or non-intentional. Some times clusters need replaced or controllers and the tech just doesn't know how to fix the hours, or the customer doesn't care enough to have it done.
Tampering with hour meters is not a brand specific, this fraud has been going on as long as there have been used equipment dealers.
On this particular product line (skid steers/tracked skids) the monitor panel in the cab gets its data from the Machine ECM, so the operating hours registered in the ECM are the same as what pops up on the screen. Contrary to popular belief the hours on an ECM cannot simply be "wound back" using ET, although they can be wound forward to increase hours. Only replacing the ECM with one that has clocked less hours will reduce the number of recorded hours. That would be a very expensive way to do it though.
I was referring to more so the engine historical totals as far as fuel consumption, miles traveled, some other hints like this. I have seen where people have manipulated data to change monitored hours, but never changed key on time or fuel consumption ect. You can certainly turn back the hours on the original ECM, not with ET but other methods. I’m not going to dive into it here, but when I exchange ECM for customers I give them the option of pulling the entirety of the firm, flash, and eeprom from one to another for a multitude of reasons. As a locksmith it’s a very simple task on heavy equipment, baby steps compared to a BMW, Mercedes, Audi ect.
When looking at used machines I always assume it ran 350-500 hours per year. With fleet machines you can almost always figure out how many hours they use their stuff per year doing whatever they do. Occasionally some private seller will have a personal machine that has low time but they will also show some records. Nobody fakes them them higher! Meters being disconnected is not common any more. If the meter seems lower than 350 hours per year then it could have had a computer change ut I would never assume less than 350 no matter what. Companies buy these machines to use the hell out of them. Always.
Do those show percentage of idle time as on road truck engines like C15. Idle time is a huge factor with on road.
The percentage of idle time can only be seen on electronic engines. On this machine, the engine is "wooden" without electronics, so you can't see how much the engine worked under load. But I think it can be understood by other parameters. You need to download the status report from the ECM of the machine. And check the Current Totals parameter.
That's odd Nige turned into bulldozer man.
It seems to me that Nige has more experience than me)