Just thought I'd put it out there what everyone's favorite mill is and why. Being that I'm a little strange to most people, I do not have a favorite mill. I've run pretty much all of them at one time or another. The only ones I have not are Dynapac, Bomag, and the assorted mill head attachments found on backhoes, excavators and graders. (Don't even get me started on 12ft mills) Of the Half-lane mills, they are all good in different ways. Obviously Wirtgen make a great machine however the quality factor has dropped off since they started mass production. The older DC series were also excellent machines as well. From what I can remember back in the early 90's it was only CAT and Wirtgen that made a machine that really could hold grade with all 4 tracks where others either couldn't do it or did not have that option. Back in the late 80's and early 90's CMI pretty much dominated the market with the best forward loading, powerful mills out there. When they released the PR800-7 everybody went nuts for them. However around the same time Roadtec had some good mills as well which, despite them not having the HP that CMI had could still pull a decent amount of asphalt up per day. The older Roadtecs main problem was getting the load off the ground, if you went at it too hard the lower conveyor couldn't handle it. Back then they didn't have bulkhead/front mouldboards of which to raise to ease the load on the tail pulley...but if you knew how to run them...they got it done nicely. Ingersoll had a half-lane mill that was pretty consistant as well, lots of bad things were said about them over the years but the time I spent around them they seemed alright, the grade system was a little to ahead of its time and not perfected but their drives and loadout systems were excellent. I could go on and on but its your turn now
Volvo mt2000 I think I'd go with the new Volvo MT2000. After watching a demo, they remind me of the old Ingersoll-Rand mills made back in the early 90's. They have it all together on these 2meter drum mills. I believe they can go 18 in deep on a cut and their grade & slope system seems easy to set up and dig. I just recently attended a mechanics class from Volvo on these units, as we are buying one, and I was impressed with the quality of it. The conveyor folds uppright for transport and the gathering conveyor is removeable without removing the discharge conveyor or the drum. I think they said on a shallow cut they will mill at 180FPM, and have 3 drum speeds. The drum runs off a clutch direct from engine. It will give our old wirtgen a run for it's money, WE HOPE
Not long ago I heard a complaint from some folks who had demo'd a newer Ingersoll/Volvo that it had some strange issue with the turning of the tracks cutting the travel, something simular to Wirtgen's system. While safety is important that would really be annoying. The Volvo version of Ingersoll from what I've seen is pretty much the same machine as they were. Then again, the people I heard that from were pretty much clueless as far as milling goes and would never make it without the comfort and ease of a Wirtgen. I'd be inclined to believe they simpley weren't running it properly or had a safety switch in the wrong position. The drum speed control is great....they definetly have alot of others beat with that. The older idea was to changeout the pulley wheel sizes on the upper and lower drives to increase or decrease drum speed....looks like that is a thing of the past
What do you think I perform a lot of utility work for railroad, counties, gas company, and electric company. That said we've been doing all of our milling with mill attachments on large skid steers. After the past three years averaging 4000 to 12000 sq.ft. a day we've decided to invest in a utility size mill (40" / 1 meter). What are your guys opinion of the following? Wirtgen w100F Roadtec RX-400 Cat/bitelli PM-102 CMI/bartmill PR 220 with 30" box CMI/bartmill PR 330 We're trying to decide which machine will be the best overall value and last the longest since it won't get worked like a mainline machine. Keep in mind with would be our first mill. :beatsme Thanks, Andy
Great Question! Those mills are all pretty good, it would depend on the operators preferences. I've a few along the rails cuts for paving joints and know its always best to have a mill where a clear view of the outside drum (or endslides) of BOTH sides is necessary, specially for those that don't do it often...the location of drum on most all those machines above have a small blindspot....takes getting used to but after a system is worked out its fine. (Traffic swap or comfortable running the blind side against rail.) I dunno which would be best cept to say its obvious Wirtgen make the easiest machines to run....they win hands down. Bartmill make a tougher machine, Roadtec make a reliable cheaper machine. Post pics when you get running this year please!
Do'nt know Alot about mills, but all i could say is here in Ireland and even the U.K Wirtgen seems to have the NO1 spot. I can only remember EVER see one other make here, a single bitelli (may have been bought by Cat now) and i think that contractor has changed to a Wirtgen now!
The CMI PR-800 pictured in this article is a pleasure to look at for a number of reasons. http://clearymachinery.com/const/MC/RT78TRAPROCK.pdf The machine is running nice and level, not alot of dust or material on the ground ahead of it. Means they have ample water running and they take care of the flashing on the conveyors. Leak pattern by engine covers typical to PR-800's cuz the air compressor is located around there, (and the gearbox behind) means they do some cutting with that thing, most likely day and night during the season. An indicator sits on the track to give the operator an outside of the drum mark, that means they custom built a drum or CMI came and did it, pretty much all those machines were standard 7'2" drums. (unless its one of those 12' models which were rare cuz they didn't work out too well) I'd guess that drum at 8' cuz I saw The Miller Group make that Modification on an 800-7 in 1999/2000. (although it the mod was done in Canada and sent to us in Atlanta). Just by that picture you know Schifano at one time had people working for them that knew the score on running mills. They run all Wirtgen now....go figure
At this point we don't have any operator preferences at all, we'll be learning from scratch with the purchase so from that end it doesn't matter. When you say bartmill/CMI/Terex makes a tougher machine what do you mean by that, harder to operate or just rugged? Has anyone had any experiance with the bitelli / cat PM102? Just curious because the specs seem to put this machine a few thousand pounds lighter than the equivalent wirtgen and roadtec. thanks, andy
CMI/Terex/Bartmill would make the machine that could make the cut in pretty much any situation at the maximum depth the machine will cut at without losing engine RPM. They have always maintained the best drives and overall power. The Wirtgen will cut at Max depth a little slower but not be as hard to work on, the cutter on a Wirtgen is an easy fix where the Kenametal drums take a minute to get used too change-out tooth holders and so on. Drum designs, speed, operator comfort, are all an issue to consider. Bitelli/Cat most likely make a powerful, good machine as well, I've never seen the smaller ones. Since you would be using it intermittantly its probably wise to choose the one easiest to operate. Down in the Florida Keys I was doing some intersection removals with a Wirtgen 1200F, (4ft cutter) the removal depths varied from 2 inches down to 6 inches. The 1200F would have to slow down due to the amount of material being removed. Keep in mind that wasn't all asphalt that deep but the base rock was wet and heavy. The Contractor we were working for had a Ghel (sp?) skid steer with mill head attachment with a 2 ft cutter on it working behind the 1200F in certain spots. Even at full depth the Ghel was never under load, it could be run as fast as the operator could hold it straight. If somebody had walked up to me and told me the Ghel had alot of power like that over a CAT skid steer, I'd laugh them off. But this time I saw it with my own eyes.... How deep is the asphalt on average? I've seen some pretty deep asphalt close to railway crossings. Over the years on ever fixup they seemed to pile it up...If thats the case you will need brute power more than anything else. BTW Wirtgens come with a tool box that has pretty much every size of wrench/allen key and socket head to fit the machine....pretty nifty channel locks them Germans make too. Gimme a call at demo time, I'll help you sort one out real quick
They can range from 8 to 12 inches (they can go a lot deeper but usually we go to a stable layer) at the track (usually for he first 2 to 3 feet) and we thin them out to 3 inches at the edge of the approach. You can find just about anything at these things though concrete over asphalt, asphalt over concrete, asphalt over corduroy you name it we've found it. Just to make mention we're also considering some lower hour late model used machines. thanks, andy
I can imagine you have which is why I mentioned cutter drums. Wirtgens change out system is the outright best to keep you running through the day, they give you all the tools required with the machine when they bring it too you for teeth/bit holder change outs. Kenametals system is great as well but requires more experience to be thoroughly comfortable with. If you get tangled up into something the holder MUST be hammered off and that can lead to more problems depending on what you hit and how hard. Years back, One time we had a piece of old track they threw under the asphalt get caught up in the drum housing, we were welding/cutting/grinding for 2 days afore we got going again...(some of that was our fault, we didn't have enough holders and had to send for more, sssshhhh) Figure you fellaz might have seen the same action but with a smaller drum it doesn't hurt quite as much
Check this link out Check this link out, and let me know what you think. http://www.volvo.com/constructionequipment/na/en-us/products/millingequipment/introduction.htm
I've run the older ingersolls, they were great! I'd like to try one of the smaller newer volvo mills. Chincot, are you a Volvo rep? Every post I see from you mentions them. Volvo make good stuff, no doubt about it.
We looked at a MW500 and it was a nice machine but the price they quoted us was slightly less than a Roadtec RX400 or a W100F so we ruled them out immediately (which seems completely out of line when it should compare to a w50 or w60 sized machine). It seemed like they were trying to take advantage of us :beatsme I'd welcome a "second opinion" if you'd like. Andy
We've hit plenty of track and blown holders off like crazy but the worst was hitting a unmarked rail comm line and spooling up 2000 feet of comm lines (we're talking like 48 to 72 pair line). Let me tell you, way worse than sucking up a crab trap on a jet ski.
Volvo Rep? Well, I guess you could say that since they sign my checks. I worked for Ingersoll-Rand for 20yrs til Volvo bought us out. I really had my doubts about Volvo the first year they bought us, but the last year and ahalf, they are starting to impress me with their quality standards. I don't want to sound like corporate stooge, but the are making the same ingersoll products better. I spent the bulk of my career, testing and troubleshooting all types of road building equipment Ingersoll/Volvo make. Alot of it was done thru prototype testing and final shipment testing. Spent ALOT of time off-site testing prototype equipment from mills, pavers, rollers and graders along with variable reach lifts. I'm not out to sell Volvo equipment, that's marketing's job. Just curious about how the IR/Volvo equipment is holding up, especially the newer 6000 series pavers. The mills are done being tested now and are in production. I'm willing to help anyone antway I can with my experience.
We've been impressed with the 6000 series pavers, they're a little big for what we need them to do (we stick with 1055 cats and 5110 IR's, however, we're trying to get into roller compacted concrete so we've looked at a ABGs with the tamper bar screeds) but a good college friend of mine has picked up a few of them and they like the large hopper size, stability, and power for highway work. The problem in michigan is the IR / Volvo line changed hands 2 or 3 times in the past 12 months and the current reps (wolverine equipment) just got bought out by a forklift company so I don't even know where to start, they don't even seem interested in selling equipment (throwing out high prices on everything to companies like ours with outstanding credit history). Honestly for us volvo skips the size mill we're truly interested in. We want the smallest usable form factor with approximately 750 - 1000mm head (30 to 40 inch), rear mount drum for tight cuts, and a front discharge conveyor if possible (we can live with a stub conveyor and load into buckets). It's not just volvo but bomag, and dynapac both skip this size mill. Both the roadtec and writgen reps have told us this is the largest growth segment they have right now, paving contractors need a utility size mill and they hire out big jobs to the pros. But I understand opinions are like A-holes everyone has one it's just what I've been picking up from the past 1.5 months trying to pick out the right piece of equipment. Please let me know if you have any suggestions since our reps are less than useful. Andy
Thats cool Chincot...I just wondered what was up since hardly anybody even bothers with Volvo/Ingersoll lately. I've always liked them. I'd love to see the Volvo half lane mill in action, I'm thinking with the variable drum speed you mentioned and someone that actually has a clue on how to use it, it would out perform the others...CMI had a gearbox control similiar to that on the pulverizer/reclaimers that worked well.
For power and a machine that was a cakewalk to do maintenance as well as operate I have never came across a mill that compares to the Roadtec RX50's I ran back in the 90's at Turtle. Milling drum:Came down your way over the holidays,Cannot remember the name of the construction company that had 5 W2100's on I-95 in mid Georgia. Venture Construction or something like that.....
Thats Villager, they have the most mills in the east. Turtle run a great maitenience program, thats what happens with old school mill people, they realize the importance of taking care of equipment, Unlike that bunch your mixed up with now Back then I was with your competition not far away in Leesburg Fl. They were originally called Hill Milling, they were taken over by a northern outfit called Donegal, and then turned into Delta Milling. Those dudes didn't care care of squat and are now gone. That, even after another takeover by a northern outfit called Midwest Asphalt. Delta had a Few RX 50 models, they were beat up but they did kick some @ss for sure. I always had a problem with them traveling backwards comming into the cut, even with the parking brake on, they just weren't heavy enough in some cases. Those Cummins engines were great too, lots of Hp if you had the drive belts tight enough. Remember what fun it was to tighten those up? Having to slide the entire engine back with prybars, piston jacks and whatever would work, usually with the PTO leaking and engine leaking oil from being run all day. Ah...back in the day
Anyone have much experience with a IR Pro Cut 1000R? Found one for a decent price with 1,800 hrs, I just don't know anything about them :beatsme . Thanks, Andy
The only problem I'd have with that machine is that its rubber tire...otherwise IR make a good cutting mofo...
Terex Well just had a long conversation with Terex, seems they don't know if they want to build any new mills , kind of blew me away. The rep said they've sold off all of their stock and don't plan on resuming production for the foreseeable future unless they get a large order.
i've been around the CATs and the Wirtgens and personally i like the Wirtgens better. grade control is alot nicer IMO along with the operators station.
We are sold on Roadtec Mills. We currently run 20 Mills and 18 of them are Roadtecs. Three factors go into our choice of manufacturer. 1) reliability of equipment 2) Service from the manufacturer 2) Availability and cost of replacement parts. We have been milling since 1974 and have found that Roadtec tops everyone else in this department. Thsi being said, we have 2 Dynapac PL-2000's in our fleet and have been pleased with their dedication to the first 2 criteria in our choice system. The third criteria does not match Roadtec, but they have been repsonsive to our needs.
for the kind of milling you will use it for ANDOMAN i would say a wirtgen w1000 or w1200, they are both great machines, get into tight spots, easy to operate, good power, and as for customer support the parts book is easy to read and very helpful, and when ya call the office in nashville the support guys can walk ya through step by step if ya have something you cant figure out. I like wirtgen just because i dont think there is an easier machine to run in the little mill department. And the w1000 has a drum of 40inches but ya can get a 2foot drum to put in it also.
Smaller Mills Andoman, Let me introduce myself, I am David Ando(some coincidence eh?). Anyway I am president of Turtle Southeast and grew up running mills since I was in H.S. Currently we have a Roadtec RX-400 in our fleet. We traded it in for a Wirtgen W1200FT. We were having a ton of electrical issues with the 1200 which is why we decided to get rid of it. The 400 has superior hp and a bigger conveyor than the 1200 whcih allows us to mill deeper and maintain production. The configuration is the same as the 1200 with the drum to the rear of the mill which allows you to back into corners that can't be accesed with a standard mill. The draw back with this configuration is that there is no visibility on the left side of the mill, this limits the funcionality of the mill when steering from the left side would be necessary. It is kind of a trade off. Since we use this mill only in specialty applications it works for us.
I really appreciate your comments, we're currently looking at both the Roadtec RX400 and the Wirtgen W120F. I see what your saying about the limitations of the machines, but the only thing we're going to use the mill for is a specialty applications (which I do about 1 to 3 days a week) and I hope to also use it to mill out patches for some larger big box stores in the area. Right now I'm leaning toward the Roadtec (I'm also looking at buying a paver from them too) for a number of reasons, one big one is I don't like paying for a boat ride the others are comments from local milling contractors. I really have no intention on getting into large production work for the machine, I hope to keep it busy in house with maybe an occasional outside contract, usually my "specialty work provider" only gives me a few days to get out and take care of the problem so dealing with outside milling contractors has been a pain to the point I've been milling out 8000 to 12000 sq.ft. with skid steers to keep my client happy. I'm still running the numbers but I think we're going to pull the trigger this year since it looks like it will be a long term contract.
Roadtec 400 Can't say enough about roadtec's support and willingness to work with it's customers. One major consideration for us is availability of parts and in my book Roadtec has it all over Wirtgen in that department.
What a pleasure it is to have one of the original milling people in America in this forum. Mr Ando Thank you for joining us. Andoman..thats alot of considerations toward the specialty end of contracting, in doing that by now you already know the backwards ways some the GC's will ask you to do things, best is a mill that know you can throw into a difficult situation and still get what needs done when it needs done with the least amount of problems and/or delays. Mr Ando points to Roadtec as being the best in service and I'd be inclined to agree, however certain areas of America where we do not see alot of Roadtec products the service end becomes more difficult. Wirtgen service is midgrade at best. CAT have excellent service and a wide service area but in my opinion do not make a user friendly machine.
w2000 Better steering than a 1900 and not as big and heavy as a 21 or 2200. Plus I like the w over dc anyday.
support If you ever have any troubles just call Nashville( Writgen America) and ask for Erwin, he is a trouble shootn god. Can always get parts over night from them. Just my 2 cents.
Bob is also a human service manual on all Wirtgens, he helps me at least once a month. His father is the bigwig of wirtgen in the netherlands.
DC models are the old versions. The DC2100 had an excellent steering radius, those !900's...well it taught an operator how to use rear steer in situations where it wouldnt usually be needed. Ya them service techs can talk ya through about anything when your in a jam....good thing the industry clamped down and demanded it over the years.
anybody had any experiance with the roadtec RX-20B's? Came across one the other day and it seems like a strange machine to me. :beatsme
If you see it please get pictures. I saw a RX25 once.
These are off machinery trader, it kind of looks like a bartmill 330 but with only3 wheels???
Never seen a Roadtec like that. Bet there aren't many atall. You thinking about buying it?
Not sure, it looks interesting and if I could get a few years out of it before dropping 300k on a RX-400 in a bad economy I might. I have a call into my roadtec guy to see if they do what they're supposed to, I figured maybe someone on here might have experience with one.
If you go look at it, just make sure its got enough leg barrel travel for the type of conditions where you spend the majority of time cutting along the tracks. Depending on how old it is you might wish to modify the sensors a little.
Yeah the leg travel and stability was a concern for what we're going to do with it, especially with the three wheel design.
Since you aren't in a high production situation on a regular basis that might be a good machine for the price. What kind of drum? You mentioned at times there are things buried that get hit.
Well it's got somewhere around 3500 hrs on it and they want 40k so it's in the right ball park. The drum is a 30" drum and I'm waiting to get some more info on the holders but I'm assuming they're weld on. As for hitting things it hasn't been a regular thing, maybe once to twice a year but you never know, this could be a bad year.
I've run a few rubber tire machines. Biggest drawback I had with all of them was traction. On and off the trailer, and getting lined up to cut, when you need to steer if they are worn down it SUCKS! That price is good for a utility cut machine. You guys are most likely all good welders and needn't worry stuff you hit or may hit.
Rubber tires are horrible for any kind of gravel shoulder work if your thinking of doing any of that.
All the work I would use this machine for would be on asphalt 100% of the time working on railroad approaches and transition milling for parking lot overlays. We had been leaning toward a 40" Zanetis RoadHog mounted on a backhoe or loader but then that ties up a backhoe or loader. I've got to go look at this thing and see if it's stability is good enough on three wheels (it looks like it has the 3rd leg mounted in the center of the side of the unit, which may not work out) to do what I need it to do.
Have too agree with Bean completely. At Miller in Atlanta they had a custom leg barrel with a track on it it instead of the wheel. AND that same machine rumble stripped.
I'm looking at a used W1200F with about 3800 hrs on it, what should I be looking for as warning signs of abuse. The machine comes with the 2, 3, 4 combo cutter, full conveyor, and stub conveyor (they had some strange job they had to load into loader buckets on. Thanks, Ando
Our biggest issue with the 1200 was electrical problems. It seemed to have continual issues with switches and relays as it got past 2000 hrs. Also check the track tension, we had issues with those as well. Keep in mind that any replacement parts will be pricey so check out the mill closely.
It had a new engine (replaced at 3000 hrs) and it's a bit of a good deal, less than 100k for the unit. How do you guys like your RX-400? If the economy was a little better we wanted to get a new 400.
I just took over as fleet manager so I inherited what we have and for the most part, my old man made the purchasing desicions....so we've got: 3 Roadtec's (50, 60, and 70) 4 CMI reclaimers (2 500's and 2 650's) and I guess the old Bomag is permanently parked Its hard to say, other than we feel like we've had good luck with them but really have nothing to compare them too. Down here, TxDot had been on a cement stabilization kick and with the water hook up and a couple tankers, those CMI's would chew up a serious amount of roadway in a short amount of time but those type of projects have dried up and we may entertain the idea of downsizing that part of the fleet. /shrug.
favorite mill any barber greenes still around?
Theres a few pictures in the pics too share 2 thread.
I'll dig up an oldie, does anyone have any good/bad/otherwise experience with marini/bomag MP 1300's? We've been looking at one for a while now and they seem like a good size for the commercial work we've been doing the past few years.
In the pictures I just saw of that particular machine it looks like a knockoff (but allot smaller) of the CMI PR525 models. Full size frame but an off set drum under it. The main issue with these smaller mills in this configuration of course is that sometimes you have to use the exposed edge of the drum against an edge you have to be sure of, you cannot use the side thats offset inside the frame unless the operator has an extremely good sight line and can hold it straight or right on that edge. That can cost allot of time setting up trucks and turning around etc etc...If you can maintain the same direction and the left side of the drum isn't needed for a serious edge it would most likely be a decent machine. I had heard they come with Kenna metal drums. Of course the wear items I suspect might be pricey, track pads, conveyor rubber, rollers, switches. The Dynapac I was running last year was a parts nightmare which is one reason why PP&S and Turtle got rid of the ones they had. Seems that the traditional mill manufacturer make a better quality machine overall.
hello i am looking at a 1979 cmi tr225 milling machine. i plan is to use it a gravel pit. i was wondering if u guys think it will work? just grind it up off the surface right into trucks.. whats ur thoughts
You may want to look at Gomaco trimmers aswell, Not sure what kind of gravel pit you have but I don't imagine they like larger stones.
our gravel here is magnesia. its hard enough u have to rip it out of the ground but once u get it broke free u can break it up by just running the cat over it.
The amount of teeth on the cutter will be what makes that older mill work aright or not, you might like to keep as many holders with good teeth in them as you can and make sure you can run ample amounts of water and it should work ok. I've heard of older mills like that one being used in applications like that.
dynapac has a small mill but I'm a Wirtgen fan I have 6 machines
I've seen you guys working in Altamonte Springs north of Orlando 10 years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk2czOrpIPg&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Welcome Jenstarltd Who was it you saw in Altamonte Springs? Turtle? They are from Clearwater, Fl. However there is a BIG milling Company in Altamonte Springs (Mill-it) who run nothing but Roadtec. (so do Turtle) But do not be Dismayed, there are over 40 Wirtgen mills in Florida running besides those two companies mentioned above
Yah I think it was Mill-it did you see my video about the rear traction I'm still working with Nashville to resolve the problem, other than that the 210 is a nice machine. Great forum I'm the only owner of Mills around here so not to many people to talk shop.
I was up your way years ago with Miller Paving, we were working for a company they wound up buying, they were out of Arnprior. Can't remember the names, Smith's or something. That was around 1995 or so... Wirtgen has a pretty good support system, they should be able to solve whatever is wrong. I did notice in the video that the tracks were not slipping at the same time, which is strange if we were to think it was related to a weight problem. I'd like to believe it is a weight problem but its hard to tell. Do you have any traction issues like that when its cutting shallow depths? We should prolly move this conversation to the W210 thread, I'm sure the Wirtgen lovers over there would be keen to know whats up. None of this surprises me in the least, since Wirtgen started mass producing machines back in the late 90's things like this have been popping up.
Hey Guys I am new to the fourm. And new to milling. I want to learn as much as I can. I work for the Alabama Dept Of Transportation. I have been running a Wirtgen W1900 solo off and on for almost 7 years now. I dont get to do alot of the real milling you guys do. We do mostly strip patching. Anyway, our W1900 has around 3100 hours on it now, and is due to be replaced. They are looking at getting a bigger machine I believe. The central office in Montgomery has already orderd the machine as it is used state wide by many districts. I have spent several days under the machine fixing other peoples screw ups, replaced several holders, had to drill and grind the set screws out of the drum because they wouldnt come out, we heated, and used a 1 inch impact, broke several sockets, not to mention several other things we have had to fix. Anyway. My boss wants us to purchase our on machine that wouldnt be used state wide. I have always been on a Wirtgen Machine, Know one knows anything about milling machines, and no one has tried to do there homework like I have. All my boss has seen run is Roadtec's. I do know we want a bigger machine than a W1900. What would be some of your suggestions. Lets say between these. A Volvo MT2000, Wirtgen W200, Cat PM201, Roadtec RX600E Can you guys give a comparison, and recomendation. Also what type of grade controls do you think we should get. Like I said, we do mainly strip patching, and extra depth milling for base failures, we very seldom do side streets or turning lanes. Thanks Drew
We prefer teh Roadtec. We ran a demo with the MT2000 and found several safety features that make the machine cumbersome to work with. Particularly the objecvt detection system on the front tracks. It will stop if anything over 6" is in front of the track. We have peurchased a 600e and are very happy with it. my suggestion would be to get a keystone wedge lock drum on any mill that you buy. We get over 3,000 hours on a set of holders and they stand up to the toughest conditions.
Thank you Mr Ando. What actually is a Keystone Wedge Lock Drum?, and how does it differ from a Wirtgen drum. Also, considering we are on the main line majority of the time. Should we stick with a 4 track machine? Please forgive me for the dumb questions. I am trying to learn as much as possible. BTW. I watched your promo video on youtube. I was very impressed. Top notch for sure!!!!
Found the keystone wedge lock drum. I see where that would be better. Thanks
Wirgen is my favorite but I have never tried anything else so........
Kennametal 301 system is the best I have used. I would go with the Roadtec. You can order them with a Kennametal drum. The 301 is easy to change in the field if you break one and the bases are the biggest heavy duty weld on bases I think anyone has in common. Also, the holders can be changed with pullers provided by Kennametal and a sledge hammer. No worrying about bolts coming loose and needing tightened or seizing up and not coming loose when you need them to.
Getting a few minutes with the keystone drum this year was nice. They are a good system. Durability would be a case proven in different types of materials. Some areas are difficult, others not so difficult. When it comes down to it with new people getting into the industry that will never see the older style heads, they will get comfortable with what's taught to them instantly and reject different types of heads based on the personal knowledge and ability they have using a particular brand. Americas finest products are the failure to give credibility to the "other", unused, untried product because we didn't know how to use it and we are scared to learn something new. 301 heads I have run are great. Wirtgen heads MUST be maintained for the first 500 hours according to spec or they will fall apart. Sandvik have put out a head that looks and works much like a 301. Keystone have always been the preference of old school milling owners and operators. Over the next little while, I may put some effort into a data base of stats of head wear and production rate. Not sure where it will be posted but il let you all know.
From my experience, Keystone's are a pile of crap
Milling Drum. I know what you mean about the Wirtgen heads. Im fighting ours now. Loose holders and seized bolts, the other day, it lost hydraulic pressure to the brakes and locked down with me in the road. Its so aggravating sometimes, juggling between solo milling machine operator and paving foreman can be a bit stressful at times. Any ideas on getting seized holder bolts out? Didnt know if some of you veterans might know a trick.
Theres a few ways to break em loose but make sure you replace ALL components new from now on. Most likely the block is shot and that can earn a shop day to get after a few of the others as well. Threading is the major drawback using impact but I've seen it used successfully many many times. Fine threads have never been good with impact, once you see the thread shavings you better have remembered the thread chaser. I'd nibble away at the drum until it got pretty tight, you are lucky you have limited units, changing out mills can be a problem. not to be rude but iv done a fair amount of cutting in alabama, some of that material can wear things out quickly and if you arent under pressure like mill subcontractors are you might wish to make sure of the road density early. Watch how fast you can run the mill after the drives are warmed up with good teeth, working off those numbers and some feel, if you know a tooth or two may be bad NEVER take the chance of another 2 or 3 trucks. By then your in trouble and might be down till lunch. (lunch? ***) Talk to the roads supt, tell him you need a day or two for the drum and thats all there is too it. Get a regular groundman/waterboy that knows what to look for in the pattern and can handle the tooling. Handling multiple holder change outs by yourself is *&)*^&)*(. Get in the shop, tighten it all up best you can. The first day out will show you what you missed. Possible you get some of what you missed and by the weekend the drum might be a block or two at the most. Damage control takes patience and it can feel awful running the mill when its punching you back.
Thanks for the advice milling drum. Im not able to have a groundman or waterboy. LOL. I have to watch mybown cut, make sure the machine is level, get my own water and all that jazz. When im not milling or get far enough ahead to stop, I have to run back to the paver and make sure they are ok. Anyway. Rumor has it they have bought a new Volvo MT2000. No one knows anything about milling machines where I work, and they wont take extra time to learn about them. I didn't know anything about warming the drives untill I read it here. Shoot they hammered theeth in with a hammer untill i read where your not suppose to. I just wish I worked with and for people that had pride in what they do.
No problem, personally I hate seeing and reading about such things after the amount of times I've been through it and find your situation interesting being a state run crew. Traditionally and to this day mill subs have to get as much square yardage as possible daily or they lose money. If the drum condition is a problem it would be handled at nite after the day is done no matter how long it took and be ready to run the next morning no matter what. Funny the state isn't investing the time and/or money into taking care of such costly purchases but knowing how private sector management is means its boiled over into public works as well. You won't hear much of that warning the drives up stuff from others, alot of people in the business think thats stupid. I've had disagreements on that topic more then once with a foreman and quite always lost the arguement until the new drive belt is being replaced and the office wondering why it went out when in fact the average life span of the belt is much longer then the time it lasted. Little things like that keep the mill running longer with lower overall costs. If they don't care about paying to replace prematurely worn out items, run it anyway you want. No point in helping them if they don't want to help themselves. Wirtgen sure won't tell you warming the drives up is a good idea, that idea comes from common sense and experience which not many appreciate. The only people that would even remotely agree with that idea are people that have been milling 20+ years, back then it was hard to get parts and you were usually days away from the shop without a replacement. In your case you might be able to keep as many spares as needed at all times and have a shop mechanic put it on... Funny about Volvo, Last month I was in Cali and the company I was with had one as a demo and wouldnt have anything to do with it. I hear they are good mills, more of a utility machine then anything else but I saw a video where they will keep up with a wirtgen and roadtec of the same displacement on horsepower. Very different setup then the others. Please let us know how its going with it.
Anyone have experience with Bomag 2000's? We're looking at getting a bit heavier into the milling side of things and I'm trying to whittle down the manufacturers to entertain. I'm looking at writgen, roadtec, and we're looking for a third. Terex is out since they don't have much support up here in michigan, and Cat is out since their support is garbage after Michigan Cat got bought out (and even the guys that work there tell you not to buy a Cat mill). Not sure if I should look at Volvo, bomag, or dynapac???
Ando, I'd demo one while you have a job where you have to cut 4+ inches deep and see how fast it can go. You know the spec on the others pretty much from all the weeping and wailing around here. The Bomagg is a good all purpose mill, I have pictures of one from last summer while in Ohio, that thing looked like it would tolerate about anything. The fellas running it didnt know squat about milling and were doing a decent job. They were grade trimming, the head was most likely trashed and couldnt be used to mill with. Wish I could remember the nme for ya.
Yeah, we demo'd a Bomag 1300 last year and we were impressed with its simplicity, but I haven't heard if they're throw away type equipment or not (ie 5000 hrs and done type equipment). I guess the Thing that scares me about Bomag is the mini mill we demo'd sucked donkey nads. I'm leaning toward a w200 but I have to see what the prices are these days.
You can't lose with the Wirtgen, I hear alot of nice things about the roadtec 600 but that comes from people tipped in that direction already. Takes a minute to get the hang of the newer style consoles, setting down with the engine at 1800 rpm was not something easy to handle at first. Believe it or not the only knock off halflane worth a hell was the Dynapac W2000. It would beatup a bomag I'm pretty sure. If you are heavy with Square yds, the CMI/Terex is worth a look. Heavy to move them though.
Well try out all 3 and see which one you like.
For the wirtgen system the main trick is to relieve them with a hammer when the holder is only partially tight then torque it down the rest of the way. Almost every time you just sink them down with the impact the holder will be in a slight bind which will make the holder come loose once you've milled for a day or two. Doing it this way I've had three or four rebuilds with none coming loose for at least 900 to 1000 hours. Also lots of silver never seize on the threads in the block and shank of the new holder. Hope this advice helps. :drinkup
Thank you Jeff, I caught a lot of flack over the years about putting grease on the shank of those holders. I had to re explain the hot cold expansion theory 500 times not to mention the water that can get in. Did they tell you that too at Wirtgen training? just curious.
Yep they did except they say use the brass hammer but that doesn't cut it. Sometimes you'll get it where you think it's tight but as soon as you smack the back of the holder it's loose again. Sometimes you have to work it a little at a time. Tighten then hammer and so on until you get it all the way tight. I think it calls for 430ftlbs but as tight as a 3/4 impact will go is usually good. That's for the newer style large Allen. Also use the little plastic plug that goes in the Allen. It makes it way easier the next time to just stab with a screwdriver instead of cleaning out the bolt, big time saver. Best I've done is about six hours start to finish on a 6'7" drum with 2 people
Hey Guys Just wanted to update. We are going to the first training on the Volvo MT2000 machine Tuesday. Any questions I should ask the Volvo guys? I'm thinking I'm not going to like this machine. How much different is it going to be from the Writgen W1900