Here's a nice History Book of Allis-Chalmers . From its' beginnings , to the end. Author Norm Swinford Contains the early history from 1847 through 1982 . The AC HD-41 was built from 1970-'74 ; 1900+ dozers built. 524 Hp. The Fiat Allis HD-41B was built from '74-'82 ; 764 units. The book contains all model and serial numbers, for the Allis Chalmers period and some for the Fiat Allis time. The best reference for Allis Chalmers /Fiat Allis I've found .
Fiat Allis Dozers Here's some pix, okay 2 of the HD-41 and the last HD-21 I'll find a FA 31
I had a Fat-Allis HD31 in my fleet in Kentucky. Most of the operators didn't like it, but there is always one skinner that takes a shine to the oddball machine seems like. Like all the rest of our machines, this one had not been taken very good care of. Most of the cab glass was gone and the cab itself was real loose. It shook like crazy, and the one operator of this machine spit tobacco juice everywhere inside the cab. He was a real pig. One of the reasons why the machine was in poor shape was the mechanics hated to get near it. But we steam cleaned it and took the cab apart. Tightened everything up, put new doors and glass in it, fixed the A/C and heater, and reinstalled the cab on the tractor. Put a new undercarriage on, fixed all the leaks and had the engine tuned. It would stay with the D9H's just fine and was maybe a bit faster as it was more powerful. The D9L's, when they ran, out worked it easily. The engine failed one day, put a rod through the block. So we bought a crate engine and stuck in it. Only the Cummins boys forgot to tighten the oil pan quick change hose fitting. It came loose and the new engine burned right up. Cost Cummins a bundle to put another brand new engine in it. We wouldn't let them rebuild the damaged one. You can be sure they double and triple checked all the hose connections when that last engine went in. I worked on HD41's in Florida shortly after I got out of college. The dealer I worked for had several in the state. One of our biggest customers was the City of Surfside down towards Miami. They had a huge landfill there with three of the 41's in it pushing trash around. They had a big fleet of AC scrapers too. The 41's caught fire often from trash getting near the turbo's and exhaust manifolds. This usually burned up the wiring on the firewalls and in some cases the instrument panels. In one instance the engine was left running and a hose burnt in half near the engine compartment. The entire machine burned and we had to bring it into the shop for an overhaul. It looked hopeless, but in three months a near new tractor emerged. At least the fire got rid of all the smelly trash piled up in the pans and guards. One of the fat old mechanics we had was assigned to the dump and these three machines. He always requested some skinny little guy from the shop to go with him when the machines had tranny trouble. He would direct the skinny guy down under the seat to hook up test gauges to the tranny and torque converter. One day the skinny guy wasn't in so my boss sent me instead. Sure enough I got sent into the hole. Oh my, you never smelled anything so bad in your life. Lots of garbage got squeezed into the belly guards under the tranny and engine and in the heat, well, use your imagination, than times that by ten. It was late in the day when we arrived and I assumed we would test and get the hell out and return the next day to replace what turned out to be a badly hurt transmission, but no, the field mechanic and my boss were in a big hurry to get this tractor back up, so we started taking the trans out, which meant taking the cab back, getting the flooring out and removing the trans from the top. They were pretty good sized and the little field trucks couldn't lift them. For that we had a F750 with a 12 ton boom at the shop. We finished up long before the boom truck showed up with the new trans, and I went to sleep curled up under the tranny on the belly guard. Man I was tired, course, I did most of the work too, and it was hot. But at least the mosquitoes left me alone in there. They concentrated on the field truck cab where the mechanic was holed up. He wouldn't roll the windows up cause he smelled worse than the garbage dump most of the time. Had a complete aversion to soap and water you see. So getting in the cab with him was not an option. Boom truck showed up around ten that evening and we three worked our butts off the rest of the night swapping things out and getting the tractor buttoned up. I went home with the boom truck operator while the mechanic stayed with the tractor and waited for the dump lube truck to show up with fluids and coolant. When we got to the shop the boss sent us home (he was pinching his nose at the same time) and he told us to take the day off. My ole lady wouldn't let me in the apartment till I took off all my clothes and piled them in the garbage can beside the door. Then I took a long shower, but I still smelled like garbage for three days. I told my boss that if he ever sent me back out to the dump or anywhere with that mechanic, I'd kill him before leaving the shop. I do think he believed me for he never did. A lot of the factory guys came by our dealership (we were the biggest in the US) and they were sure unhappy when Fiat bought into the company. The owners of the dealership weren't happy about it either. Kelly Tractor (Miami Cat house) was really struggling at the time and there was some talk about the owners of our dealership buying them, but apparently Cat wouldn't even talk about it. We dealt in Poclain too, and between Allis-Chalmers and Poclain, the dealership kicked Cats butt severely in the early 70's in south Florida. The recession and the gas shortage in 74 really hurt everyone in Florida, we didn't sell a thing brand new for six months. I had by then developed a healthy dislike to south Florida and my wife and I decided to get out. We weren't the first to leave nor the last.
Fiat Allis 31 Well here's the pic
i wish my boss would develop a dislike for Fiat. we've an FD 145, and FD 150, 3 FD 175's, and an FD 255. I'm the mechanic and lets just say I've got job security. I can't wait to see a CAT show up some day
We had a 41 "Fat Cat" and a hole fleet of 31s the last place I worked in CA, but most of them had been parked for emissions. I wish I had made it to our yard and got some pics before I left. It looked like a Fiat Allis grave yard.
Miller Bros. Construction of Archbold, Ohio had an HD 41, in '78 they had it near my dad's house building the 30 bypass. I believe it was pushing scrapers, the final drive went out of it in the middle of the project. My dad said it was pretty neat seeing that thing ripped apart.
Yeah we had one runner and 3 or 4 for parts. They ate final drives like they were going out of style. 8 in one machine in relatively light work.... striiping overburden which was mostly rocky soil and clay.
How Would You Guys Like To See Pictures Of The Very Last 41b #764 I Just So Happen To Be The One That Owns It I Live 15 Minute From The Old Factory Site I Hope That I Will Be Putting It Back To Work Sometime Soon As Im Bidding A Waste Water Treatment Plant That Has 100,000 Yds Im Thinking That Is Got To Be My Cheapest Way To Move The Dirt As The Push Distance Will Be 80' To The Inside Toe Of Slope In One Cell And No More Than A 150' In The Other The Berms Are 15' High With 10' Top 3 To One Sides 12 Acres Total Impound Ments
opcorn
fiat41b velcome to the forums!:drinkup And please post some pics! Always interresting to see theese classic machines.
maybe tonight i will try to get some pictures up right now im in deep thought of how much i should bid this water treatment plant at 100,000 yds 95% compaction push distance under 150' anyone else have any ideas they would like to share maybe past experiences on lagoon projects
waste of time bidding job Well looks like i might have to let my 41b set still a while longer unless something else pops up the job went to a none union company they were $300,000 lower 4 bids total 3 union 1 non union on a prevailing wage project.
Allis Chalmers Thanks for posting Northart. I,ve got that book too, really enjoyed it. Norm Swinford certainly did a good job of it. Allis Chalmers sold alot of smaller gear here in New Zealand, more HD6s came here than anywhere else in the world, except of course the USA. Alot of people here too were very disappointed when AC sold out to fiat, and the local agent here dropped the brand after the last machines with any real AC content in them were discontinued. Many people in the US still run them ? And whats the parts situation like ? Thanks for the thread. Merv
Here is a local machine in California for sale. For $80,000 it could be yours too...
Looks like an FD50, for 80K theyll be sitting on it for a loong time. We just settled on 15K in scrap for ours that sat 10 years for sale.
There are some nice pics and info on the FA31 on Robert VanNatta's web site, along with lots of other info. http://www.vannattabros.com/dozer.html
I'm going to go buy some lotto tickets
The HD41's were good for pushing pans if your budget was to stay away from Cat! Problem was those engine's could not protect themselves from the extreme heat.
Rare to see many AC tractors in one place, but just off I-5 south of Coburg, Oregon there is a contractor on the west side of the road that has five or six sitting in various stages of disrepair. Doesn't look like any of them have moved in a good while. Just east of Kingman off I-40 there is a working HD41 on the north side of the highway in a spread out old gravel pit.
Surfer-Joe, if those are the same ones I remember seeing, they are cable plow cats. That duty seems like the last holdout for the old AC and IH crawlers.
I think you're right. I didn't get a close look at them.
That one is owned by my old company or was at one time. I guess it wasn't the 41s that was nicknamed Fat Cat. Is it up north it was located in Socal? Vinci Pacific used to own it. We got that SOB stuck in a canyon we where filling once you didn't take that dozer around anything that might be even a little soft.
I would sure love to run a 41.
A surface mine over in Ohio ran HD41s until a few years ago. They always said the final drive problems were caused by the outboard final bearing failing and changed them weekly........ every sat afternoon. They dident seem to have many final drive problems.
I have heard a lot of stories, but this one should be made into a movie.. that was so descriptive I can almost smell it. wow what an experience!
Was your comment directed at me Oldirt? If so know I have no reason to lie about anything.
I think he was referring to surfer-joe's "garbage machine" repair story.
salut les gars, j'ai une panne de convertisseur avec Fiat Allis HD41 quelqu'un n'a pas la documentation du circuit hydraulique?
Gotta love the tie-down chains! I know they aren't as dinky as they look, but still....
Not much out there gonna do more than hold it in place on gentle roads! That is a Chunk!! Reminded me of a years gone by, as a kid. A local contractor in St. Charles MO had a FEW pieces of equipment and a couple low bed rear access lowboys with tractors. Friends of mine had a pond to be built outside of Williamsburg MO while was in the olden days of 73,280 gw license no oversize/weight moves on weekends or after dark. The guy was doing this on the side as a favor(cash) and did not want to have any excess time involved so they hauled the machines, a 966 rubber tire a 955H and a D7(E?) early Hydraulic do not remember the series as was only 15 at the time. The 966 and 955 showed on a Saturday LATE Afternoon, the trucks were setting up to head out after dark when one just thru his stuff up on the truck and hauled out with the other driver in the jump seat. Around three or four hours later the second truck arrived IN THE DARK with the 7, blade still on it sitting on the trailer, running. third truck was right behind. Seems they got in a hurry, set two 1/2" chains to the rails on the 7 at the rear and took off avoiding the interstate. Were around twenty miles from the farm when made a hard left corner on a county road and the 7 slipped sideways. Well both chains popped, the 7 slid off, slid a ways down a slight grade then rolled thru a ditch landing on the rails. We stopped to survey the damage two WEEKS later. Old machine had absolutely cleaned off the scrub in a path around thirty feet wide all the way down the grade, dirt, chunks of sod and large amounts of displaced soil everywhere in the ditch! The 'Boys' had got on the machine at the bottom, it started and the drove it up the grade back onto truck number two as the one that had been hauling it was damaged! Got it to the farm and did their work, hauled all home on Sunday As Well!! Did the pond dig with chunks of stuff hanging on the ROPS, stack bent, lights askew, some tins damage but worked. As far as I know the owner left the machine bent up to remind the 'Boys' to make certain all was adequately chained down until was traded off. MODOT never did figure out whose machine made the mess, and they did look.
Being loaded on a beam you almost want to chain more to prevent ground contact from upsetting the load. If you have sufficient coefficient of friction between machine, blocks and trailer it's most likely not gonna move. I have seen machines on a beam drag on a hump or in a tight turn and get "adjusted". Big hoes and cranes aren't as bad as dozers. Smooth shoes vs that nice thick grouser on a dozer. I've heard many stories about loads getting lost, dropped, bridge strikes and the like. Either I'm bad at f$&kin up, lucky or good because, knock on wood, I've never done it. I've moved monster stuff that was borderline unstable just by sheer mass and center of gravity but that's another story. Come to think of it, that was a Sunday morning move......