Not having dealt with a lot of precision slope work could use some help. I've heard a 1% grade is a 12" drop over 100 feet. Does that mean each percent would be another 12" drop over the same 100', ie/ 2% would be a 24" drop over 100'? I need to put a slope on my flat track oval to help with drainage and make it better suited for smaller cars like micro sprint cars. They tried the track and liked it. A slight slope would make cornering better and help with run off. Was made flat for bikes but the cars are much more interested so I'll cater to them. Bikes can still run with a slight slope. I'm hoping to hire the county grader to slope it. They will do custom work for $100/hr. but might be busy fixing washed out roads. Could this be done without a grader? I have a skid steer and a tractor with a box blade and land plane. The track is 65' wide and I'd like a 1 to 2% slope. How would you go about this? I can tilt the box blade somewhat but hoping someone has done something similar.
Correct 1 percent is 1 foot in a hundred or 1/8 inch per foot 2 percent is 2 foot in a hundred or 1/4 inch per foot the equipment you have can do the job the question is do you have the time and skill level to accomplish it A blade will do it faster but are you just going to cut out the low side or are you going to borrow the dirt from another spot to build up the outside corner
Thank you for that. I'd like to try just dig the inside lower. I think a grader could do a little of both, take material from the bottom to build up the top section. Maybe I could do a little of both too? Scrape some of the material and use it to build up the track. Sandy clay material was used to build the track up after all the topsoil was stripped off. I'm wondering if I could tilt the box blade or even the land plane so one side cuts more and just do a bunch of laps to get a rough slope and then smooth that out. The other idea was get a short section at the slope I want and just expand it all around the track kind of like leveling dirt starting off from a flat area? It's just a huge area is why I think it might require a grader. It's approx. a 1/4 mile around the middle and 65' wide.
It's much easier to work out percentages using metric measurements. 1% = 10 millimetres per metre and so on. 65' =19.812 m, crossfall is 198mm @ 1%
Is not, is not, is not. Get out of here with that new fangled metric nonsense.
Mate, your lot beat the Poms in 1783 and you still want to use their dumb measuring system, I don't get it.
Its the us, myanmar and liberia left not on the metric system. Three countries can't be wrong.
I'm more interested in the best way how to do it if a grader isn't available. I'm in Canada so have metric but I'm much more familiar with standard measurements.
Without a grader the landplane would be my next choice. If the track is dead flat then to get a 1% crossfall the deepest cut should be about 4" while the fill should be about the same At 34.5' will be the cut to fill line
It's a 3pt. hitch landplane not a landplane like used for leveling fields.
Do you have a laser? You can just go around and mark on the ground how much you need to cut and how much to add.
Were it me, I'd use a lazer level to set grade stakes at 15' apart lanes. Use what you got to create flat, (or pitched) between the grade stakes. Once you have an interrupted plane you have chosen, Place a new set of stakes center of each lane. Grade to them. I'm sure my second son with his GPS survey drone can make the process faster. You'll need a surveyor to build you a plot, then a GPS guided bulldozer will suffice. Your surface is big. 40 foot railroad rails can be set 10 feet apart with elevation transit guided, then a dozer blade is a screed between them
Something I just thought. Regrading just the track could lead to another problem "drainage". Would it be better to win fill material from the infield and use it to bank the circuit or import fill from somewhere handy?
Well, it sorta is, but, I still don't wanna!
I think for the shear size of it I think I'll need a grader to come in or I'd be there for a month of years. It has to be sloped and it has to be smooth. Having a laser equipped machine would work but I think it would be cost prohibitive at this time. The county grader that came out the last time had a level in the cab that he could follow to stay on the same plane.
If the grader operator is any good at all, he can slope it like you want it, Dave. It is a dirt race track not a precision NASCAR track. ( I worked on the construction one for over a year). Those cars are going to tear the he** out of it anyway. If there was asphalt going on it then that is a whole different story.
I can get it pretty smooth once the slope is established. It has too be smooth for the smaller tires and shorter wheelbase cars. There's a possibility the track could become their home track and they could get sponsors and such to make it into a real nice facility. A few drivers came out and really liked it. Last Sat. a bigger group was supposed to try it but it got too much rain. With the track being relatively flat any low spots would hold water.
The Rutland Fairground uses a two wheeled trailer with blade in the middle. Never been there when they are working the track. But I imagine they can use laser to create a plane, add material where it is needed. This grader apparatus is equipped with several hydraulic lines. It hinges in middle to raise & lower the blade, and angles. I'd guess it tilts also.
If you can count to ten, you can figure out the metric system
Nope, not gonna do it... No comment.
You’d be amazed how many people can’t figure it out......
Join us. The other kids do it..... it'll make you look cool. I''ll start you off 1000 meters in a Kilometer
A meter is the length of a path traveled by light in a vacuum in 1 second. I have a foot on the bottom of my leg. A centimeter is a meter divided by 100 My knuckle is a inch. Imagine the following conversations: "Let's just slap some 2x4's on there and call it good" "We will now install our reinforcing 38mm x 89mm support framing": My 4x8's of plywood will never be 1220x2440mm's. And no one will pen a ode to the kilometers they will traverse for their significant other: I rest my case.
The issue is not one of numbers and math. It is of perception. I can picture a ruler in my head and perceive a foot in length. I can look at a bolt head and know that a 3/8", 7/16" or 3/4" will fit on it. I can see a hydraulic system runs at 4,000 PSI and instantly understand the type of hydraulic hoses and fittings I have to use on it. I can read the weight of a heavy component and know how much lifting capacity I'll have to have to pick it up. Don't get me wrong about being averse to the metric system. When I measure an undercarriage on a tracked machine, it's all done in milli meters. It's just more convenient. I'm just never going to get my head around one inch being about 25 milli meters. I don't have a problem with that. Those that do have a problem with it will either get over it, or not.
The worst part of the metric system and the united states is we have everything manufactured in metric now and then some oddball thing on said machine is in standard and everything that was made before the late 90s is all standard no metric So we have to have double the tooling to dam near anything I agree with the post above I am not adverse to it but my mind is already calibrated in standard measurements just like grading using surveyors feet and converting that in my head to inches for concrete to finish floor height I just know it I really dont want to devote more memory to metric conversions as well but this cross bred metric standard thing we do is a royal pain I would be fine if it's one or the other
Canada is a bit different than other countries because we can never go full metric as long as the US is imperial. Lumber is still in inches and steel is for the most part too but plate can come in either. It's more with what you're used to but having to use both systems can be a PIA. I've worked in shops where most blueprints were imperial but every once in awhile we'd get thrown metric prints. I hate dual sided tape measures. Another shop I worked in would convert the metric measurements to imperial. I think because most of the older employee's weren't familiar with metric having used imperial all their life. In theory metric is easier but it doesn't always work out that way. Interestingly engines are mostly referred to in litre's now as are tires. It's like a big conspiracy to mess with your head. A 6-1803.4 doesn't have the same ring as a 6-71. Vehicles can have a mix of imperial and metric fasteners that makes no sense at all. Had to put new fuel pumps in a GMC Topkick and the tanks straps and sending unit nuts are metric.
I remember in grade school the president at the time, maybe it was Carter? He mandated that we learn the metric system because the US at the time was going to transition over. Apparently that plan, like many others in DC died on the vine. Anyone else remember that?
Yep, that was right about the time we were all gonna die from global cooling....
When we took the motorhome to Alaska I got really frustrated trying to figure out how many liters of diesel I was going to need (we like to use high volume truck pumps) in Canada. I finally made a spreadsheet so I could roughly correlate gallons to liters. Amazing scenery.
I remember when NY started to put up speed limit signs on I-90/ NYState Thruway. I think they managed to install a handful before someone got all up set thinking someone was trying to overthrow the country or some BS of that kind. Before that I think it was 1967 for my Physics class everything was calculated using the metric system because we were going to be joining the rest of the world at last. I think I learned that the first US citizen to push for converting to the metric system was Ben Franklin and even he could not get anyone to listen! Well that was over 50 years ago and the rest of the world is "social distancing" by staying 2 meters apart and we are told six feet! Maybe that's why we are still having problems with the virus 2 meters are over 6 inches more than our 6 feet so we are too close!
In Vermont we stay 1 cow length apart.
Bovine distancing*
I prefer Vine row distancing!! With a Bottle of nice Merlot in Hand!! And that would be 750ml or a fifth. Whichever one prefers as I do not care until Empty!! Slope angles however do get dicey if one is as bad as I for cutting grade.
And if you want to have some real fun hand someone an engineer's tape measure! Somehow we got one at work many years ago and it caused all kinds of confusion. If you don't know they use 10ths of a foot in place of inches! So a 4X8 sheet of plywood measures just fine but watch out when you measure 2 feet 6 inches that would be 2.5 feet!
Ever done Chains calculating on property surveys? Also tried to explain to a Grand Nephew how to set run and rise with a Carpenter's square, should have been beating his forehead on a concrete wall.
My 300' tape measure is inches on one side and tenths on the other, I always have to look twice when I use it.
I had to do that a couple times building my house but would take a refresher course if I had to do it again as it's been at least 15 years!
Never mind chains, Where in Hell is north? Deeds don't always say magnetic or true north. Then I waste time googling. I've now planted in my head magnetic is @ longitude west from me. To find true, it is right from magnetic. Now which were they using 150 years ago? My brother in law is a retired surveyor. By chance he surveyed a property for the State of Vermont adjacent to land I now own. I couldn't find a steel stake he placed in 1967. Called him, read the text of the deed. He didn't know magnetic or true. #2 son came, laid out both options. Dug two holes to find the stake 8" down. True North it is!
And the Magnetic N Pole is on the Move still!! Supposed to end up in Siberia or other points AWAY from True N. IIRC all surveys are based on Lat/Long lines True N to True S.
The metric system is about globalization. One standard worldwide, one world, one government, one religion, one race, one people, one size fits all. It was decided for us behind closed doors. We are too dumb to be included in the discussion.
Zack was telling me about some unit of measure accurate to great precision, where everything is referenced from the equator, and 0 longitude. As you might expect, something to do with projection. This can be expressed 2 ways, there are minute differences. It wouldn't matter in 100 acres, but starting at the equator, your starting point might be off a hundred feet. The company he works for changed computer programs. The wrong unit of measure was used. Someone caught the error just before huge errors were made.
GPS is currently in a battle for accuracy, are adjusting True N to Magnetic nearly weekly as the Pole swings get more or less severe. https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a32496561/why-magnetic-north-pole-moving/
And then on some deeds I have seen the property lines are referenced in relation to the center line of this and that road. Well what happens if the guy running the road grader(back when many roads around here were dirt/gravel) or paver is off a few inches or they widen the rood more on one side than the other due to a rock ledge or something else? Might not matter over a short time but things have a way of adding up over the years. I also know when we built this house the Post Office assigned us a house number they said 1400. Well a few years back when UPS started using GPS to find places we failed to get something delivers and when we checked they said there was no house at that location. Checked on Google Maps and sure enough that address came up as being about an 1/8 mile west of our house, empty field! Of course if the driver had just looked at the mail box at the end of the driveway in three inch tall numbers there was the 1400!
I wonder how the surveyors pre GPS accurately figured out where true North was? I know lands and islands were charted using a sextant and tables (and an accurate chronometer.) When we took our boat to the Caribbean we had a lot of charts that could be in error as much as 1/8 of a mile compared to our GPS. More than one cruiser ran aground following their GPS instead of the Mark 1 eyeball. Some of our charts hadn't been updated since the late 1800s.
GPS is being updated near to weekly now, was brought to someone's attention of Magnetic N moving OFTEN and erratically so they checked and 95% of system was in error, that was two years ago where now they review and 'Correct' more often.
For Federal surveys my brother in law was required to go at midnight, corrected for daylight savings time, and reference Polaris. The transit was left with bits of vegetation left to show if anyone had tampered. Next day, the survey began. A lot has changed since.
GPS is amazing in its precision. It is corrected daily. Most of us don't have access to correction for GPS. Those with a need for precise GPS can subscribe to a correction service, or spend a large sum, submit to security clearance to acquire the factors. If you are deemed safe, and pay, you can use GPS to the 1/10th inch worldwide. Drop your neighbor's dog's turd on his patio table.
The metric system is just a measurement system. Who cares? You can give me prints dimensioned in furlongs and stone for all I care. The parts I use are part of a hardware system. It just happens the hardware systems that are easily available are inch based. Metric hardware? Which metric system? If your equipment comes from Germany, the hardware confirms to DIN. If it comes from the rest of Europe, it confirms to ISO. If it comes from Japan, it confirms to JIC. And if it comes from China, it conforms to whatever system the item they copied was using. Lets use something as simple as a 10mm hex head bolt. If its JIC, it has a 15mm hex, if its ISO, it has a 16mm hex, and if its DIN, it has a 17mm hex. Interchangeable my ass!
You should see a metric survey rod
I have a Trimble EZ-Guide 250 GPS I use when broadcast spraying. The optional antenna I bought provides 6-8" absolute accuracy vs about 2 or 3 feet if the patch antenna is used. The subscription is SBAS (whatever that stands for) for this accuracy but there's no separate fee required however the antenna was several hundred bucks. One herbicide I use is expensive and I don't want to over apply.
I remember working on the WA600 Komatsu at the quarry quite often on that machine say a 10mm bolt had maybe three different head sizes depending on what component it was part of or holding on. I always made sure I reused the right bolts in their original locations. Would hate to work on that machine after some people who just grab what ever bolt they could find that looked close to the right size!
All those that I worked on matched every US size except the 10MM and 12 MM bolt heads. Thread pitches were all easy as well. The problem machines a lot of times had replacement bolt installed that had the odd size bolt heads. Plenty of replacement bolts that should have been 19 MM or 3/4 inch had 18 MM and generally made for lots of frustrations.
Yeah, buy a metric bolt at the parts store and the heads are the wrong size for Japanese machinery. If you know the bolts are all original, take an 8,10,12, 14, 17, and 19mm. If not, take them all.
Anyway, metric talk aside, If you can swing a grader, I would say it's your best bet. I do peat moss haul roads every spring. Once I grade them once in the spring, they maintain them with a drag behind a grader. If I was 12 hours closer, I'd help you out.
I talked to the county and they said to call in about a month because they are behind in fixing roads that were washed out and/or destroyed from the excessive rain we've had. I talked to a lead hand who said residents might get upset if they're doing custom work instead of fixing the roads. The last time a grader came out he had a level in the grader so he could stay at the same angle. It's too hard to try and get it perfectly flat so water doesn't pool. 1-2% slope would be good.
Always want a road Crowned to keep runoff IN the ditches, even as much as .5% slope is better than flat.
I think the only way to have a chance of getting it flat enough is to have a super accurate laser set up come in and I'd have to have it come back every time the track needed to be groomed. A slight angle would allow for water to run to the low side where it could be collected and pumped off. The track is wide so if a few feet at the bottom is wet you can just use the higher part of the track.
The horse show several miles from me won't open this summer. They have several perhaps 1.5 acre pads they do whatever high maintenance girls & their higher maintenance mothers do on horseback. My friends build these each year from the ground up. This stuff is a mixture of calcium carbonate ground to 3/8" minus & ground old tires. Supposed to be easier on a horse's body. They want 1.5' difference one corner to another. They rent a lazer guided CTL to make it utterly flat, but pitched.