Hello Everyone. I'm fairly new to the industry and brand new to the board. I've got a lot to learn and hopefully something to contribute one of these days. I am doing some research on filters and the different brands. I've gone through a few performance comparisons, but honestly, haven't been able to find technical information on the differences (Difference between a CAT and a Donaldson or Baldwin). Can anyone give me some insight on this? I'm looking primarily at Fuel and Hydraulic filters, from standard to advanced performance parts. Is there a difference in the media they use or the structural design? Processing methods? Are there some resources that I should look at? Any information would be appreciated Thanks guys!
I think you will find that the detailed information of internal design, filter media, etc, that you are looking for is considered proprietary information by the filter manufacturer and/or the machine manufacturer. As an example Donaldson manufacture a lot of filters for Cat, but to Cat specifications not their own. I have some information gleaned over the years about filter design, etc, but it would not be available from any resource that I am aware of.
Its not an easy question to answer. There is all different kinds of media, Donaldson uses 5 different kinds of media that I can think of right off the top of my head. The windings can be different, nominal vs absolute ratings, cellulose media vs synthetic, which synthetic fiber being used...... I have been asked before what kind of filter is the best, my answer is always what are you trying to filter? If your talking about fleet of CAT trucks the answer is going to be completely different than if you ask about bulk hydraulic fluid, completely different for bulk fuel, different for gear boxes..... For the most part filter companies want to sell filters, not filtration solutions.
oh and welcome to the boards Bleedingyellow Heres an article written by one of the Donaldson guys, might get you pointed in the right direction http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/194/filtration-future
Back when I was buying thousands of dollars worth of filters a year, there were only three manufacturers in the United States and everyone rebranded one of those three. As I recall you could buy a Wix, Donaldson or a Baldwin. I think Fram manufactured their own products but I never found any that could be used in heavy equipment. All the technical information was made haze gray and stated in terms few could understand or would even try. There were two types of media back then for pass through filters. Cellular and spun micro-glass. The cellular media was just a fancy paper element. It was really nothing more that a fine sieve that contaminants would get stuck on as the fluid went through. The spun micro-glass was glass like threads that made contaminants change direction as they went through and thus got stuck. Both types of media worked fine but the glass types were in my opinion prohibitively expensive. When I found something else that would work "good enough" I used it. I see now days that the filter companies are trumpeting manufacturing traits instead of absolute particle size and capacity. One has end caps made of metal, another uses spiral roving and I've seen ceramic center tube ballyhooed over simple metal centers. Some manufacturers are moving away from spin on and touting canisters as better. What I found back in the eighties and nineties was that any of the three US made brands were adequate to accomplish what I needed for the fleet I was keeping running. Maybe today that has changed, but I doubt it. My philosophy is that if you change fluids and filters when indicated by the manufacturer or some kind of fluid analysis program you will do well with any filters manufactured in the USA. The only real determiner at that point is price. Also keep in mind that if any dealer or manufacturer tells you that you have to use their filter in order to maintain a warranty that they are required then by federal law to supply that filter to you for free. It is called the Magneson/Moss Act.
The Cat fuel filters are 2 micron absolute. With the new common rail fuel systems fuel cleanliness is far too important to save a few bucks on a lower quality filter.
i understand that much of it is proprietary info, but from what I understand, there are standard designs to each brand that offer various differences in performance. Donaldson seems to consistantly use metal center tubes with sprial lourve designs, and boasts their propietary Synteq media (And I'm still not sure exactly where it differs from any other sythetic media). CAT's using standard plastic center tubes, acrylic beading for pleat separation, and all in one housing. I can't even find what kind of media they use. Fleetguard has this NanoNet and StrataPore filter medias. The only one that I've had a hard time figuring what's so special about their design is Baldwin, which sort of seems straightforward. I wasn't aware that Donaldson made CAT filters. I know they work closely but i didn't know Donaldson was their manufactuer.
Please note I didn't say Donaldson make all of Cat's filters. All I know is that they make some of them, and those filters are made to Cat's design, not Donaldson's. However I'm sure as the supplier Donaldson have an input to the design.
From the comparative results that I've seen, CAT seems to perform better on average than most other brands. On certain models, Fleetguard and Donaldson show better durability on fabrication integrity and collapse tests. But when I look at the specifications on the items and designs I honestly can't tell speicifcally why Donaldson or Fleetguard would be more durable, or why CAT shows consistantly higher miltipass efficiency. Thanks for the great responses. I apprecaite all the expertise I can get from you guys!
From my experience I wouldn't touch Fleetguard filters with a 40ft pole, despite the fact they are a wholly owned subsidiary of Cummins.
Any particular reason why not Fleetguard?
I agree with Nige, the last Fleetguard filters I bought said Made In China on the box. I use only CAT or Baldwin.
Too many bad experiences over the years. IMO they are just sh1te filters, don't care whether they are made in Timbuktu TBH. Too many to list here but the most recent one was on a Hitachi EX3600 hydraulic system only last year. Picture this: - 1. Hitachi hydraulic systems must use a zinc-free hydraulic oil. 2. We were using genuine Hitachi filters because there was not much alternative in the market. 3. The local dealer supplied some "will fit" Fleetguard filters without our knowledge. It was our Buying/Warehouse people who agreed to the switch because the genuine Hitachi filter was out of stock at the dealer. 4. Almost immediately we started seeing increased levels of zinc in the oil analysis - above the maximum recommended by Hitachi (30ppm IIRC) anyway. 5. Lots of head scratching trying to figure out where the zinc had come from. Did someone drop a few gallons of the wrong hydraulic oil in it maybe..? Eventually the next time we changed the filters out popped the Fleetguards. 6. Quick run to the Warehouse confirmed a mix of Hitachi & FG filters on the shelf. 7. We sent a Fleetguard filter to a lab where they discovered that when exposed to Hitachi hydraulic oil at normal system operating temperature zinc started to leach out of the galvanised surface of the mesh surrounding the filter media. It's examples like this that have got FG filters blacklisted on many a job site ..............
From what I can tell, cellular media is still in use. and they'll add in or layer on another sythetic fiber to further filter it. I'm glad you mentioned price because here's what I don't get, a CAT fuel filter might go around CAD$45 to $50, where as a Baldwin would be $40. Where's that difference coming from when all i can see, the technical specifications are basically the same.
Wow, that's crazy. this is the kind of result that lab performance tests would not have found because they don't run it at operating temperature, they're only analyise their filtering efficiency. Have this happened with any other brands?
I have no idea. I just quoted this as an example. TBH I have not had good experience with Fleetguard filters going back almost 40 years now. Personally I wouldn't use them in my pickup truck let alone a multi-million dollar earthmoving machine.
I'm with Nige, had first had comparision with fleet guard and Baldwin on new isx cummins engines that had the injection pump fail and fill the engine with metal bits, the fleet guard was quickly over filled and went to by-pass and took the crank out. the baldwin design was able to retain all the metal and did not damage the crank. the FG filter second stage section will not take anything but by-pass filtration, looks like stacked paper disc, where the second stage in the baldwin is a tall pleated section of a finer micron rating, but able to hold a major failure of this type. I switched all the family vehicles to Baldwin. just saying..
Hey guys! I'm new to the forum and I'm also doing some research on these filter brands. Along these same comparison lines, does anyone know much about the market structure of these companies? For example, how do Baldwin, Donaldson, Fleetguard, Luberfiner, & Wix market their filters to distribution in terms of pricing, perks, freight, etc. I'm curious what the main differences are between them.
Did you get your answer?
buy a filter cutter and cut 'em open. You'll learn 100X more in half the time spent googling. There is so much info and misinformation about filters. Filters usually represent less that 1% of total owning and operating costs. A lot of people want cheaper filters, but usually not worth the risk. Most would save much more money to cut the operator's wages 5 cents (yes cents) per hour or negotiate fuel down 1 cent per liter than they would buying aftermarket filters.