Hi all, New to the forum, and heavy machinery for that matter, this will be my first piece of heavy equipment. I find myself drawn to a backhoe, no clue why, just seem so useful, especially for my intentions (site prep for a new acreage, moving logs around for my mill, snow clearing, gravel driveway maintenance and who knows what else). I just lost out on a Case 590 Super M at an auction, there isn't much available in my neck of the woods (Pacific Northwest) and I'm searching high and low to find something that isn't beat to death AND won't break the bank. Took a look at a Terex 860B the other day, the specs seem great from a power perspective (I sometimes deal with some heavy doug fir and maple logs), but the brand certainly isn't loved on this site. The machine is a 2005 with 4600hrs, the exterior looks good, everything seems tight, drives great, stops, lifts and digs with ease...but the inside is a bit beaten (radio gone, heat/ac don't turn on, broken glass front and rear) but all is probably easily fixed. Also, no rear hydraulics which isn't ideal, and no 4 in 1 front. It has 4x4 which is a must, has the extendahoe, has extra hydraulics up front, comes with a set of forks which is handy and front is quick connect, engines runs great. I'm getting the service records too, so that will help. My main question is this - at 4600hrs is this machine worth 18-22K US? Right now the Canadian Dollar sucks, so I have to factor that in, along with the ******** at the border, but right now the only machines I'm finding that aren't packed full of hours are in the US. $20,000 costs me $25,000, shipping is minor, tax is a given. I also found a New Holland 655e that I haven't gone to see, it's a bit farther away, but has everything (4x4, extendahoe, hydraulic thumb, 4in1 front, cab, 3 back buckets and only 2500hrs). However, this is an older machine, assuming late 90's, and the asking price is higher than the terex and my shipping costs will be more. Again...not a loved machine on this site, but considering this is my first machine and it for my own uses (not commercial), I simply can't justify 50-60K on the big three names. Any thoughts on these 2? Any thoughts on what they'd be worth to you? In a perfect world I want something that will last me 10-20 years without crazy amounts of high dollar maintenance...and I figure I'll do 100hrs/year max! Sorry for the long post, figured it's easier to give all the details up front. Thanks! Ray
I would stay away from both they both are orphans for parts and service stick with cat case or deere spend a bit more now because you will not buy a 10 t0 20 year lasting hoe for that kind of money
You might need to spend more to get all the options you're talking about. I'd stay away from the Terex ONLY because i don't know it, who made the components etc. It might be a common engine, trans, axles and hydraulics, or it might be low bidders from who knows where that used who knows what in the components, I don't know... Nothing wrong with New Holland except resale value. That seems like "unbelievably" low hours, and lots of options. Personally, I think dealer support is overrated when you're talking about something older for homeowner use. The parts are available, you just need to know how to find them, and that's usually on the web whether you buy through a dealer or find them yourself. Maybe Cat and Case support their backhoes going way back, Deere has lots of parts that are NLA.
Don't overlook the versatile skid steer, one that weighs at least 6000 pounds. A grapple attachment is handy moving logs, quickly change to forklift attachment and move stacks of lumber, bucket work is easier because you can see what you're doing. Less cumbersome in tight places than a backhoe. If you put forks on a backhoe loader bucket, it will be quite a distance away and you will not be able to see what you're doing on the other side of the bucket. Unless you're going to be doing a lot of digging with the hoe, a backhoe might not be the best choice.
I have 2 chunks of land, one needs digging for about 400' of French drain then annual driveway maintenance plus random jobs. The other acreage is 7 miles further up the mountain and that is where I'll be setting up shop....so digging for 2 septics, putting in a drive, foundations for my house, a house for my elderly mom, and of course a nice big barn/shop. The new place will be a hobby farm and the nice thing is the land is flat (very rare here) and the are zero tight spaces, lots of room to move. I've gone through the bobcat/hoe vs backhoe for a few years now....and I'm still not sure, everyone has an opinion! Looking at the bobcat/hoe route always seems a good bit more costly, especially for items not beat to death. The nice thing about the backhoe in my mind is it will do all the things I want (possibly slower than a bobcat/hoe but I have time) and I can just jump in and go from property to property without dealing with trailers....and if I bought a hoe I'm looking at sizes I can personally haul, so now I'm paying to move it, but probably not all that often. Final thought, if a neighbor needs some work done or we get hit with another year of big snow I can probably make some good coin on the side without the hassle of transporting equipment. I'm willing to spend more for the right machine, but everything I come across is 40k plus with 9000+ hours...which is why I looked at the machines above. Thanks for your thoughts guys, really appreciate it! Ray
you cant rely on the hour meters many of them have been changed or disconnected I keep hearing of that 25 year old machine with only 2000 hours not realistic 5-7000hour machines that have been serviced are great buys a backhoe is exactly what you need just stay away from older or off brands more trouble than they are worth and parts issues will drive you nuts
Why do you need 4x4 if it's flat? or am I misunderstanding "further up the mountain"?
Should be lots of used machines in BC to chose from. The bigger dealers will bring equipment in from other locations if you're serious. The Terex is a carry over from Fermac which was formed when Tenneco (Case) purchased Massey Ferguson Industrial in UK. I've read they were good basic no frills machines but I think dealer support and parts could be a problem, especially down the road.
I would look for a 580 size Case. They have been a very reputable machine and many older ones around here are still working every day. I agree that a backhoe is probably your best option for versatility. You will be hard pressed to find a skid steer that is still working in 20 years. Personally I would not be to afraid of any of the mentioned one if you have or are willing to learn some basic wrenching skills. They all will need maintenance to stay alive. I have always believed that the less options a machine has, the more reliable the machine is and easier to fix when there is an issue.
I've looked at several Fermec and Terex loader backhoes and can tell of problems I saw on them. The first thing is the battery locations and problems with wiring and batteries going dead. When the loader is down such as when you shut off the machine you can't get to the engine compartment, namely the starter terminals. The batteries were under the left side step into the cab and had to be unbolted to get access to them and lifted out of the way. The cover slides out as part of the fender covers it. There was a bunch of wiring under there that sits on top of the battery which can get moved around and pinched when the cover is reinstalled. Jump starting the engine when the batteries are dead is a pain. I've also seen the control lever for the loader break off where it is welded to bracket linkage. Most of the console pieces are made of plastic which turn brittle when the sun beats down on them and they crack and break up. I've seen a couple of the Fermec 4x4 machines have the left side of the front axle snap off and the wheel end only stay by the machine because the steering linkage did not let it get away. The parts guy for the dealer at that time stated he had seen this more than a couple of times and was able to quote part number, shipping time and cost to me without looking it up. Nothing beats an older 580 Case for simplicity, operability, parts availability and initial price. Spend a little more time looking and I'm sure you won't be sorry.
Here's a couple Ray not sure how much you had in mind for price . https://classifieds.castanet.net/details/case_backhoe_loader_2012_580_sn/3115345/ https://www.inland-group.com/en-ca/inventory-detail/?stockid=2E354&eqp=1 https://www.rockymtn.com/equipment-...Year=&minHours=&maxHours=&minPrice=&maxPrice= I'm sure these prices would be negotiable.
Thanks guys. 4x4 because it just seems right, snow, mud, one property is hilly, I buy everything 4x4. Wrenching isn't a problem, worked on lots of equipment, just happens to be my first personal machine. Thanks for finding those listings Billrog, haven't seen those. I've been trying hard to find a private sale so I can test the machine and hopefully pay a lot less tax than I would at auction or at the dealer (it's 12% up here), maybe it's time branch out as I'd like something before the snow falls. I guess I could at least wait for the Richie auction here next month...but not too excited about buying something at auction...
Bit more coin, but found a Deere 420J 2 hours away. 6100 hrs, so getting up there, not as strong as that terex on paper, but I'm sure it's a nice machine...4x4, extendahoe, aux hydraulics, full cab, 4in1 front asking 36k US...no border BS which would be nice.
Start checking Craigslist in the states; my neighbor listed a Dodge diesel pickup and a guy from Spokane, 1000 miles away bought it. Also sold a JD mower deck to a guy from Montana, they knew the local market sucked, so they were looking in the SF bay area CL. Stay away from the auctions, too much fraud with fake bidders and other nonsense. Plus you can't demo it, can't talk to the owner. New Holland/Ford has been good for the 28 years I've had my Ford. That whole time it was actually NH, as Ford got out of the tractor biz in about '88. I never understood the Case love around here, in Kali there are lot of them because Case would underbid everybody else on big contracts to PGE and other utilities, and make it up on the inflated parts and service....
One of the regular smaller job subs we used has a 580 case 4 wheel drive extendable hoe that had 17,000 hrs on it in 2003. He had done nothing major to it. He still has it and uses it occasionally when he needs an extra machine. I would not be afraid of a hoe being sold on a estate or elderly contractor sell out auction. Searching the auctioneer farm auction sites turn some up. You can call and talk to someone and follow up by going to the auction if you have that flexibility.
I check Craigslist daily, from SoCal to eastern Montana...wife probably thinks I'm having an affair. Only thing with looking farther and farther is shipping costs (and time going to look at it), hoping to stay within 300 miles. Checking out the JD 410j, a case 580sm, and a case 580sl over the next few days, we'll see how things go.
Might as well forget finding a deal in Montana. This is the place to sell old iron, not buy it. I'm in Western Montana and have to go to Seattle to find a deal.
Spare parts that won't rip a huge hole in your pockets will be an ongoing thing. JCB/Volvo seem to be fine when it comes to spare parts - Cat tends to be pricey. I don't know much about Terex but Case seem to be up there with jcb/volvo. Don't go to the stealer for any parts you need. Better look for it online - way cheaper. There's no telling how a machine is till you run it so avoid auctions. The condition of the cab inside that has seen better days is a good indication of what type of animal was at the controls of the machine no matter how 'tight' it looks outside. Any machine you buy, do a service before putting it to work - you can't take someone's else word of when was last time they changed hydraulic fluid etc check these sites https://www.mascus.com/ https://www.marketbook.ca/?lp=MAT Good luck ! Spangles
That's amazing! Do you know the year and model? Does it have the Cummins or the old 188?
It was is 1999 or 2000 when it had 17000 hours. Best guess would be that it was a early 1990s. It was a 580 with extended hoe and 4 wheel drive. They used it full time at least another year before they got a new one and started using it as a spare. They also got 4 old TS 24 Euclid scraper that still look good and run hard also. They are diligent on the maintenance of their equipment. I am not sure what engine the 580 had.
Early 90's means it was probably a K since they started in 1987 so it likely has the Cummins 390 since they started those back with the 580E. I think they stopped using the 188 with the 580B in the 70's. My 1980 580 C has a 207 that still runs good, too, but doesn't have the grapes that the K with the Cummins and turbo has.
You can create a craigslist account and set it to email you for keywords in new ads.
I have a Facebook group, "heavy equipment for sale". Fair number of tlb on there. A good friend bought a ex gas co jcb 214s recently, it's a sound unit, well built. Personally, 20k and less case 580 20 plus, deere, cat, case, nh
So a quick update. Looked at quite a few machines in the past two weeks and there are 2 I’m leaning towards: John Deere 410j and a case 580sm, the deee is 5 years newer. Both have cabs, extendahoe, 4x4, 4in1 front, and both just over 6000hrs. Both come with an extra clean up bucket and aux hydraulics and quick attach rears. JD is at a dealer with full history, case is private and I don’t know if it has history available. Finally, both are about the same price. Any thoughts? Kind of leaning toward the dealer machine. Thanks
That almost seems like a no brainer. Is there something the dealer isn't telling you or the owner of the Case is just out to lunch???
It's usually the other way; private owner is 20% under the dealer for something equivalent. To try and get the same money for a 5 year older hoe is kind of insane....but I see lots of that on CL, since it doesn't cost them $100 for a weekend ad in the newspaper, and kiss off the $100 when nobody calls on their overpriced deal. CL encourages the sellers to list at crazy prices and the buyers will offer nothing in return...I hate CL....
The dealer seems pretty straight up, we’ve gone through all the service records and repairs, all looks good, always dealer serviced. The only thing that caught my eye initially with the Deere was that the clam bucket looked well used...fully functional, but teeth on the inside of the clam are pretty worn and the blade has been reversed already, but I have no experience with a clam bucket and zero clue of their life expectancy. And agreed, cl sellers seem crazy, super high prices, even on old machines...the dealer has been good so far working with me on price and including a 42” cleanup bucket.
That says it all for sure ! You are considering a machine at a dealership that has all the service records versus a private owner that may not even own the entire machine (bank loan). Plus the fact you won't get any help from a private owner once he has your money if there is a problem with the 580..
Went to look at the case again, realized the thing hasn’t moved in 7 years, that’s when the registration ran out and owner confirmed. I’m thinking things could easily pop up once it gets put back in use...not to mention he is a solid 12k high on price and has no interest in negotiating...guess it will sit in his front yard another 7 years. Pretty sure I’m pulling the trigger on the jd tomorrow....
Spent a bit more and went with the JD410J. Bit of a learning curve, but really loving this machine. Will have to work on my driveway grading skills, but this thing is a beast. Picture attached (I think), thanks to all for the advice. Ray
All servicing done at dealer's...I guess you can't go wrong with this purchase. Do try to get a parts manual as it will come very handy.
And just as important if not more so, an operators and also a service manual if separate.
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1299513756&edited=true&posted=true&adActivated=true check out my case 530ck could put a grapple on the front for moving logs or plow
Might take a while to get your price being it's 53 years old.
I think you did great. Nice machine. How is it treating you? rScotty
I missed this. The parts breakdowns are at jdparts.com, continuously updated. The Operation and Test Technical Manual will be pricey but not compared to a service truck. `