Most of these fire suppression machine never logged a stick of wood , they however have saved alot of life's, machines and wood in the forest industry, so with this type of background I think they deserve a thread of its own .
Mar's Waterbomber
What's the picture of the small fire below the one of the yellow truck?
Thanks for the pictures of the Martin Mars. 65 years of very remarkable history there. For many years it has pleased me that BC Canadians have appreciated the unique value of those aircraft, those aircraft that were to be scraped fifty years ago by the US Gov. Thank you for saving them.
Looks to be the start of a bigger fire out of slash.
Had the pleasure of watching those operate out of the end of Howe Sound while we were rock climbing at Squamish in 1990. Heard a rumble, and here comes a 747 with propellers!
This web site is nothing but wild land fire fighting: http://www.wildlandfire.com/descr/descr_air.htm
Marianas Mars Here is a couple of pictures of the Marianas Mars . Picture1 was taken in 1958 ,Picture 2 was taken in April 1961 . The Mariannas Mars was converted into a waterbomber 08-Aug-1959 , and into service Spring 1960. On 23-Jun-1961 two months after picture 2 was taken the Mariannas Mars crashed into Mount Moriarty near Parksville, BC during a regular drop run. Some reports suggest a failure of the water drop mechanism, which left the aircraft too heavy to climb quickly enough to avoid the mountain. However, no definite cause has officially been documented for this accident. Here is alittle more history on the Mar's waterbomber's http://www.oldwings.nl/content/mars/mars_a.htm
Great shots - I haven't seen them before. I remember the summer that the Marianas was brought into service - we used to go to 'Smith's Landing (now Sproat Lake Provincial Park) and we would be right under the approach path when she came in for landing in the main arm of Sproat Lake. Pretty impressive to a 5 year old. I still remember looking up and seeing the dark blue colour of the belly/wings when she was overhead. The day of the crash was a sad one - everyone was quite shocked by the event. I blame my early infatuation with these aircraft for luring me into the airline industry.
These picture are from my private collection ,as far as i know Jack they only been seen by family members . If you would like the full size pictures Jack pm me and we'll figure out something
I would be content for these birds to retire to flying museum status. Doesn't seem the risk to airframe and aircrew to use seventy year old planes in such an arduous manner when replacements are available. But such is the case with almost the entire water-bomber fleet.
Pretty awesome pictures there. The province here has a number of older CL-215's and CL-415's and I've always been fascinated by them and have been fortunate enough to see them in action a few times over the years. The last two years have been very dry in this corner of Manitoba extending into Ontario and Minnesota, we hardly got any snow last winter and so far this winter is shaping up to be the same way so I'm sure I'll be seeing more grass and bush fire action in the spring and summer. Here's a short clip I got of a CL-215 trying to knock down a brush fire near Vita, MB last year after days of heavy wind up to 90km/hr. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw1eafBiI1Q
I'll send you a pm real soon.... I fought several fires on the ground during my time at Sproat Lake Division. Usually the Mars were being used in conjunction with our poor efforts on the ground. Well at least it got you off the rigging for a couple of days and would usually cause them to shut the bush down a little bit earlier than they had planned. I remember one fire out in Ash River - up on the Beaufort Range - where a whole unlogged parcel was burning. I guess someone's smoke thrown out the window started it going. Our Wajax pumps weren't doing anything because when the water you put on a hot area evaporated, the fire would start right up again. The Bell 206's from the tanker base were trying to drop loads on burning snags but their blade wash just sent the load off to the side. Bring in the Mars. We had a ring side seat for the whole event. First they would get us the hell out of the way because a drop was coming in. We would scamper uphill and watch. We could see the both the Phillipine and the Hawaii do their pickups in Sproat Lake and head around getting ready to make an approach. They were synchronized in their flight pattern - when one was picking up, the other was dropping. The first sign of impending action was the arrival of the Goose bird dog doing a simulated pass to check things out. It would whizz by and head off waggling its wings - getting ready to lead the next Mars in over the fire. The first sign of the Mars approaching (you couldn't see it off behind the trees) was that the ground started shaking and then the monster would come roaring out of the north and drop the load. It then veered off and waggled its wings just like the Goose, but a hell of a lot slower... I felt I could almost touch the thing because we were uphill and looking right at it in front of us. Needless to say there were no more burning snags, or hot spots to deal with. Very impressive and I will never forget that day. So we would then grab another pop and sit back and watch the next Mars come in and do it all again. It beat setting chokers and there aren't no bugs when you're fighting fire....
has anyone ever seen a marooka track dump truck with a water tank insert on wildland firefighting? seems it would carry more water than anything else i have seen on the trails. post pics if you have them. would something like this be worth building?.....theironoracle
Not sure what one this is , maybe someone can identify her
Once more you amaze me. I'm not sure which Goose that is - it might be CF-VFU which was the bird dog, but the blue paint scheme makes me think otherwise. It was imported into Canada by FIFT in 1967 but these shots might pre-date that. What year were the Mars painted red and the Goose as well? The Mars might be the Phillipine because of the side door dumping configuration but I'm not sure what year your shot is from. It isn't the Hawaii - I'm quite sure that it dumps out the bottom. I didn't know these planes had a blue/white/red paint scheme for early operations.
Sry Jack i forgot the year . the year is July 1962
So that would make this a different Goose - maybe the Dryad or Dryad II (CF-IOL or CF-HUZ). So that was the Marianas was it? Great shots.
Duplicate post of the previous.
That looks like Dryad, the M&B big shots would often fly around to see if things were going okay, and I am not positive, but I think they may have used her as bird dog before FIFT had their own.
Okay, dryad had a redish orange tail, M&B's second goose had a plain tail. That might be the second Goose, which became Dryad II in later years. CF-VFU was always more colourful I think.
Dryad Found this on the net, one of few pics that show Dryad in her older paint scheme.
also noticed that was after she got folding floats.
Just checked with Coulson's Mars book. If it was July 1962, it was the Caroline Mars. She was modified in a rush after the Marianas crash and was the only one flying until she was destroyed on the ramp at Pat Bay by hurricane Frieda in the winter of 1962. The Hawaii and Philippine were modified after that to replace her. I'm betting the 3 colour paint job is due to not finishing the full red and white paint prior to being called out in 1962. Perhaps the tanks were discharged differently as well, something that may have been changed on the subsequent modifications of the Hawaii and Philippine. Not sure if you all know, but the Philippine Mars is going or already has gone south for good to the US Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola Florida. Coulson painted her back into 1945 dark blue and got her all ready to go. Not sure if she has gone yet but the deal is apparently complete, she will never drop another load of water again. Good news is she will be preserved for all to visit and admire for a great many years yet. Not a bad final stop for an impressive plane with an equally impressive working history that is nearly 70 years old and still flying.
I'm not really quite sure if the Caroline was ever converted or if the typhoon destroyed it before they got to her. As for the paint jobs, my guess is that the red and white didn't show up until M & B started doing their complete industrial fleet in the mid-60's. I had heard that the dark blue fuselage was a cooker during the hot summer days and they had painted the roofs white to help that issue. I have a very dear friend who was the Chief Flight Engineer on it back in the day ('63 - '73) and I will ask him what he knows. There was an article in the local Alberni rag about the preparation of the Phillipine for the flight south a few months ago. The accompanying picture showed the painting in progress. If it went south this fall, I do not know. My guess is that it will head there sometime in the spring of next year - when weather permits. These are VFR machines after all. The Phillipine is the planned main exhibit for the US Naval Museum - let's hope they put her inside so a hurricane doesn't get her.
Just a couple links if you guys are interested... I was actually on the Highway 87 Fire for a couple days. http://wildfiretoday.com/2012/09/06/montana-is-grateful-for-borrowed-canadian-aircraft/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conair_Group An oldie, I'm not sure all the links still work... Missed a couple older threads... OCR
I've done a little further reading and have some more info. According to the Coulson book, which is a reprint of Steve Ginter's 1995 book with added Coulson shots, as well as a website dedicated to old aircraft history, the Caroline was converted in 1961, placed in service for the 1962 fire season and only flew for a short time before being destroyed in the winter of 1962 by the hurricane. She was the hero a couple of times in the summer of 1962 with Dan McIvor (senior M&B pilot and the man responsible for the whole purchase of the 4 Mars) at the controls. One of the tough ones that summer was apparently on the shoreline of Cowichan Lake, the other was at the head of Ramsey Arm. The Ramsay Arm fire was reportedly a tough one requiring 22 drops over a period of about 2 hours. McIvor had recently regained his license as he had lost it in 1960 due to eyesight problems. According to the book, McIvor finally proved, with the Caroline, the real worth of the Mars as both fires occurred within days of each other and nothing else could be deployed as quickly or as effectively. The Marianas Mars was converted first, in 1959. She went into service for the first time for the 1960 fire season. Supposedly, she had the red and white paint right from the start. The Caroline was first used (with some re-assembly and service work done but without any tanker modifications) for crew and ground crew training at Pat Bay and only the Marianas had been fully converted at that point. When the Marianas crashed in June 1960 (she didn't even make it through one entire fire season) the Fairey Aviation team was directed to fast-track conversion of the Caroline and she started her first, and only, fire season in 1962. So, the shots of the Caroline above are definitely very rare and special shots of her working a fire. The Hawaii and Philippine were still in Navy blue sitting at Pat Bay until after the winter hurricane when Fairey Aviation was directed to quickly convert both for fire-fighting duties. I vaguely remember as a kid seeing the two of them in the old faded midnight blue sitting in the field on the north side of the airport right alongside Mills road. They were different from the first two in that they were fitted with gelgard tanks in addition to the water tanks. They were ready for the 1963 season but Dan McIvor had moved on to Pacific Western. In the end, both the Caroline Mars and the man behind the entire Mars project only flew one fire season of 'Call in the Mars' before both were no longer part of FIFT. The drop pattern is different between the two remaining Mars. The Hawaii had the water tank placed in the bottom of the fuselage where extra fuel tanks used to be. This gives a bottom drop pattern. The Philippine had the water tank installed in the cargo area which led to a side drop pattern through 2 doors on each side. I found this book in Port Alberni a couple of years back. The original Steve Ginter book is fully reprinted and updated with Coulson photos of the work of Hawaii Mars down south. Not sure if its still available but its called "the Mighty Martin Mars". Hope that is all of interest. Cheers.
Jack'd: I'd be interested in finding out if my ramblings are accurate. I took them from a couple of sources but first hand info is always better. I seem to remember hearing something long time ago about the dark blue being hot as well. Perhaps one of them flew in the original paint for a time. I can't imagine flying in those in dark blue in the tropics - their original navy tasks. I have not heard whether the Philippine left yet but makes sense to wait until the spring. Hopefully one of the Port Alberni guys on here can confirm her status.
M4 hst conversion Here are a couple of photos of a converted M4 High Speed Tractor into some form of firefighting equipment, looks like a pump and hose unit. A friend took them in the early 60's but not sure exactly where. Most likely Shawnigan lake or Cowichan lake. Maybe someone on here recognizes the location. There were also other M4 conversions at the site as well - a spar and something else being worked on.
Scott-Douglas-Pak-Trak was selling M4 HS Tractors for firefighting in the 60's. I have some literature somewhere. Also, I posted some pics of the Marianas Mars in the "Back in the Day" thread, shows her dropping water and still in Navy blue.
Marianas Mars Must have been taken Spring 1960.
I have that book as well - I just never read it! You did a great job of condensing what is written there into that posting. I will see what I can gleen from my friend - I just saw him last weekend and it could be some time before we meet again. I had the benefit of hearing some of the tales of what happened at FIFT from an inside view - I used to drink at the West Bay pub and some of the employees would go there to finish off their day. I still drop by the base to check things out and talk to old friends who still work there. It will be strange to only have one of those old ships parked on the lake.
Oh my, I should check things further. I'm thinking now the Marianas never did get the red and white as stated in the book. There are some other errors too, as I've been finding out. The book says the Marianas crashed in 1960 when in fact it was 1961. I've also seen a reference to the Caroline Mars never being converted - much as Jackd said. H'mmmmmm. However, I've seen reference to her being fully converted in 1961, prior to the hurricane. Jackd: perhaps your friend can set me straight!
The true story lies somewhere inbetween, is my guess. In my time, I have seen many things. One thing I am still kicking myself about was the section of the hull with the name 'Caroline Mars' that was hung up on the wall of Capital Iron in Victoria. I thought it was on display until one day it was gone - they sold it to some collector. I would have bought it, had I known. This was the section from forward of the cockpit on the left hand side - navy blue with the name in white - saved during the scrapping. Most of the early Mars had their markings and names painted out, when they did early fire fighting duties. Another thing that makes me scratch my head is the set of wings and other bits sitting behind the storage sheds at the base. They are red and white and carry the registration of either the Hawaii or the Phillipine. Where are these wings from? Why were they changed out? They sure weren`t high time parts. Are one of the two aircraft sporting wings from the Caroline or was there a new set from the factory to be had? Then there is the fuselage section section from ship #8 from the assembly line sitting there. Someone should write an authoritative history of their service in Canada much as the Ginter book covered their US Navy service days. This might explain many of the mysteries that we are trying to get to the bottom of.
The references I have see said that the Caroline was stripped and undergoing conversion, when she blew away in a storm. I do have a book here, somewhere, showing pictures of her wreck after the storm.
Hawaii Mars Prior to Conversion With "Dryad" and the second MB & PR Goose, note the fixed wing floats.
Looks like I should have researched much further before rambling on. I don't like propagating erroneous history, apologies to all. So, it looks like the great photos that started this are of the Philippine Mars - the side discharge as Jackd noted. Marianas had crashed a year earlier, Caroline and Hawaii were awaiting conversion. Anyone know if Caroline actually flew once up here?
As a result of the Marianas Mars crash the conversion of the Caroline Mars to a water bomber was accelerated. In 1962 McIvor, who had got his license back on appeal, demonstrated the wisdom of his selection of the Mars flying boats by putting out a serious fire with the Caroline Mars before ground crews even managed to get to the scene.Then on October 12, 1962 the Caroline Mars (C-FLYM) was in dry dock at Victoria International Airport when Hurricane Frieda blasted through. The high winds ripped the Caroline from her tie downs causing the aircraft to lift off only to come down hard causing significant but not irreparable damage. At this time Forest Industries Flying Tankers had only a four or five year mandate, so sadly it was unfortunately decided to scrap the aircraft and to carry on with the two remaining planes, the Philippine (C-FLYK) and the Hawaii (C-FLYL). Ironically, the damage to the Caroline would have been relatively easy to repair and would have, had the accident occurred today. This picture and info from the internet . If this info is right then the Caroline did get atleast one flight in
Apparently in Canada, you refer to the storm as Hurricane Frieda. In Washington, Oregon and Northern California, it is just refered to as "The Columbus Day Storm". What ever it's name, it was apparently quite a storm (I was their, but in diapers). The coast took quite a beating, as did inland Washington. There is a orographic funel formed by the Olympic and Cascade mountains where southern generated storm winds in the south Puget Sound area are very constricted and accelerated by the mountains. I would imagine something similar happens along the Sunshine coast with the bulks of Vancouver Island and the Coast Range.
McIvor also had the foresight to immediately start a hunt for spare parts for the flying boats. He bought six spare engines for $135 each, later followed by 29 more R-3350's from a scrap dealer for $600 each. He also discovered the U.S. Navy still owned many crates of factory-new spare parts, which he was able to buy for only $3,200. These purchases enabled FIFT and its successors Flying Tankers Inc., TimberWest and Coulson to operate the Mars flying boats well into the 21st century. Maybe their was a few wings in that deal Jack , just alittle something too confuse everyone more
I heard that these engines weren't such a wonderful deal after all. It would seem that some unscrupulous engine overhaul contractor down in the states had bid on the job to rebuild these engines just before the Mars went out of service - knowing full well that these engines would not be going into service. When some of these 'overhauled' engines were put on wing, they wouldn't last a day. Luckily Standard Aero in Winnipeg was gearing up to do the Wright 3350's for the Canadair Argus which was going into service at the time. The FIFT 3350's were slotted into the assembly line alongside the Turbo-compound beasts from the Argus and when they opened them up they found very low quality work - yes they were painted on the outside but little else was done. I read somewhere that the engine case line up dowels were peened over because they used hammers to put the engines together. Oh they looked good from the outside..... When the Argus was being retired in the early '80s, Bristol did a last big run of overhauls before they shut down the maintenance line. I heard for the maintenance guys at FIFT back several years ago, that an engine that they put on wing didn't last a day because someone left a loose nut inside the induction section and the supercharger impeller sent it right through the side case. Another great story was how they were destroying those Curtis prop blades during early service with FIFT. The prop blades had a rubber vibration damper bonded inside the blade - they kept finding rubber being extruded from the blade end drain holes which meant the rubber was disbonding. A real head scratcher this one was and they were going through blades big time. One day some old bugger drives up - some retired maintenance engineer who worked on the Mars back in US Navy service. They picked his brain and explained their problem with the props and he asked what max RPM they were running them at. They replied with some number and he responded with no wonder this was happening - you're running the props too fast, bring them down a bit. They took his suggestion and the prop issue went away. I'm not sure where I'm getting this from, but I believe this is all true. It could have been gleened from maintenance guys over a beer at the West Bay or from my old pal. If anyone knows more than me, go right ahead and chime in.
Interesting stuff, jackd! Keep it coming!
I'll post some modern day Mars shots and tell a few more lies later on. Someone else can have a turn.
Ah, the Columbus Day Storm of 1962. I was 6 years old when it hit Aberdeen, and I still recall it. My dad worked the blowdown for quite some time after that. I wish I had just a nickel for every time I heard that word 'blowdown'. Interesting to hear about Caroline and her unfortunate demise from the same storm. Thanks.
I remember the aftermath of the storm as well - and I was 5 years old up in Port Alberni. My Dad took us over to the south side of Stirling Arm on Sproat Lake. I remember a huge stand of first growth that was blown down - my guess would be around Branch 301 or 302. I remember walking for quite the distance on these huge blowdown firs and hemlocks - endless expanse of uprooted trees. We walked quite the distance and our feet never touched the ground.
Good gawd, you guys are old old old. I was only two.
My late father told me in recent years that, in all the time Weyco Twin Harbors spent salvaging that mess, their safety record was outstanding. Far better than upper management had anticipated. Why? Plain and simple, because of the quality of people who did the work. Those were the days.
Shortly before that storm, I was bound and determined to top my first tree, at age 6. I shinnied up about a 10" dbh alder with my dad's handsaw and my cowboy gun belt for a climbing belt, and started sawing limbs off. Fortunately I had the foresight to leave about an 8 inch nub at each limb, with the plan to finish the job on the way down. I was a good 35-40 feet in the air when I started working on the top. I made the undercut, and had just started on the back cut when I heard my mother yell at me to stop, and get down out of that tree NOW. I was quite sure that 'now' meant after I completed my mission. So I kept sawing. Well, moms have a way of imposing their will on a kid in such situations, and with no more than about an inch of wood holding, I finally complied, and began my reluctant descent. Of course, I heard the usual "Wait until your father gets home", but when Dad got home and she told him what I had tried to do, all he could do was laugh. Every morning after that, when I went outside, I looked to see if that top had fallen yet. No dice, until....... the Columbus Day Storm.
Careful with that old stuff, you young whippersnapper. ROFL.
Some pics I shot in 2010 at the shop/ramp. Look how small the Kenworth fuel tanker is compared to the Mars. The 2 old blue IH truck are maintanence trucks. See the IH at left - "Donald Duck" - it got a platform that can be raised so maintanence crew can work on engines under the huge cover. I have a picture somewhere with raised platform. But finding that picture will take quite a time as I got 55-60.000 pictures. They have an old Coleman truck as well. I think they use it for pulling the Mars up and down the ramp. I went to the museum this summer but it was it bit to early. They had not opened for the season. Great museum - visit worthy and I got the book there back in 2010.
A few pics of a Hayes Clipper 200 water truck. It was North of Merritt in summer 2005 and were using a small heli to dump water. See at right side of truck - some kind of "container" filled with water. Truck even got a flat tire. Smoke pics are from same day taken in Fraser Valley, scarry but beautiful as well.
I think the whole system from Hope to past Lilloeet and Cache Creek up to Quesnell is some of the coolest country on earth. I am particularly fond of the massive arid Fraser Valley from Lytton to Liloeet, with scree and talus slopes that go on forever.
Marianas Mars These pictures seem to be taken at the same time and place as tracloaders pictures in post #31 but taken by differant people . Note they have started to paint the top of the wings from fuselage to outboard motors white
I agree, looks almost the same as my pics! LOL! Since BCFP, MB & PR, WFI, etc. were involved in FIFT, it seems likely that big shots from all the companies were at this event. Seems to have been a demo for the big shots, huh? If you look closely at one of my pics you can see that the upper wing is painted white, as well. It is a strange feeling looking at these pics, knowing what happened to that plane not long after the pics were taken.
wonder if the dude in the suit was the guy who took my pics.
From the perspective of ease of access and safety, if the Marianas was sitting on the water and they decided to throw some cooling white paint over the centre section, it would seem natural to only paint that section white. By keeping to that area there was no need to mask off the lower areas of the fuselage to prevent those nasty drips. You could have had the whole area done in a couple of hours with a roller (I've seen it done) and nobody would have landed in the drink! I heard a story of when they did a re-paint on the Hawaii or Phillipine back in the '80s/'90s - this was the time when they introduced the thin red cheat line just above the solid red fuselage painted areas. For some reason they decided to do some of the prep, while she was moored out on the lake. Paint stripper in hand - and this is the noxious aircraft quality stuff - they applied it from the floating work platform. Under the faded exterior red and white were the original navy colours - I remember seeing parts of the aircraft being down to the aluminum/zinc chromate primer as they progressed. This wasn't the brightest thing to do as the active ingredients in the stripper were very toxic and the lake is a water source for most of the residents. Fisheries got involved and I imagine that the work process was stopped quickly and I suspect that hands were slapped.
Born2clearcut, (I've been following the thread.) Thank you for the pictures and history!
Hayesno1, Thank you for the 'red and white' photos; I'm sure that there are many readers who appreciate what they are!
A few of my favorite water Bomber shots
Most of my older pictures have been sitting in a box in slide format for the last 50 years or so , if it wasn't for Heavy Equipment forums it could be another 50 years or more . Tracloader i would agree it was some kind of demo for all the big wig's to show them what the Mar's bombers could do , and what a show it would have been to see . These picture are of the Marianas Mars in 1960 doing another fly -by drop .
few more of the Marianas Mars
Damn those are sweet pictures Murk
Philippine Mars being repainted Navy Blue heading to a musem in Florida in the spring 2013...the good news is its going to be a cool flight across the US, should be lots of photo ops with other warbirds etc.Discouvery channel????
So are yours born2 clearcut!!! keepm comin this video was taken by my daughter the second one I just like, Lake Shasta northern Cal. My older Brother is one of two Captains on this Bad boy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxrfB3FBgJs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M40VNeP8C4&feature=related
Great shots of the Hawaii mixing it up with the Canadairs. I bet you have some interesting stories that your brother might have passed on to you about these things - you should try to share a few with us. I was at a training course at Hamilton Standard back in the late '90s, learning the art of propeller repair with a crew from Voyageur Airways from North Bay, Ontario. Bombardier was contracting out the construction of the CL-415's to Voyageur, due to the fact that the factory space in Montreal was needed to build their Regional Jet product. I had a lot of fun with these guys... When production was transferred, it was not all smooth going as there were discrepancies between what the production drawings called for and what the machines actually had installed. The 415 was an upgraded Pratt & Whitney PW-123 powered improvement of the earlier P & W R-2800 radial powered 215. The drawings called for the installation of an avgas burning Janitrol cabin heater but as the 415 was a jet fuel burning aircraft, there was no provision for a separate fuel tank for the Janitrol. I guess they worked it out. I also heard that the Voyageur team went back to the Montreal factory to ask the boys how to build these things. The Bombardier old timers scoffed at the idea of using the production drawings and reached into the bottom drawers of their tool boxes and pulled out their personal notes - the references that they actually used to build those things.
Great Pictures ,Do you have anymore pictures of these planes. I went to Sproat Lake in Aug of this year ,And lucked out to film a test fight,I am going to post the videos here. Thanks for sharing the photos
Murk100, The second video is some really good flying, turning on the step to follow the channel!
I'll second that request!
Here is a slow motion landing video of the Hawaii Mars I filmed on Aug 7 2012, Please leave a comment,I have more videos,Let me know if you want to see them. [video=youtube;tbCrGbai1UE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbCrGbai1UE&list=PL12021641CB0270EC[/video]
Shot these in Slave Lake this past summer, not a mars but still cool I think...
Pretty neat paint job on those Alberta CL-415's.
Anyone else here wonder why the 415 has an engine intake de-ice boots at the front of the cowling (black ring) and the leading edges of the wing have none? Nice airplane by the way. Those old Electras scare me - I've heard horror stories about their wing panels.
Prolly just a gremlin.
Great pics trakloader & Born2clearcut. Here more pics from Sproat Lake - summer 2004.
A few more
Some pics of a preload fire tanker
WFP fire trucks wiht preload tanks
Is that an Orion or a DC ?
Freebird, remember Lynyrd Skynyrd! A Convair 580 operating out of the Penticton airport in 2006
That is a Lockheed L-188 Electra the civilian version of the P3 Orion I believe.
The old Douglas DC-6's are no longer around for fire fighting duties. It's getting harder and harder to get Avgas and I imagine that the parts supply for radial engines is getting kind of tight too. I know that most present day mechanics would dread to work on those things - I've done it and gas turbines are a much easier gig. The Mars is one of the last of the breed and even Coulson has now got a C-130 Hercules operating for them down in the States, from what I hear. The only down side to the gas turbines is that they're kind of thirsty at lower altitude - especially the older ones like the Electra and Convairs. The Cl-415 with newer P & W 123's on it might be cheaper to operate but they probably cost big bucks to buy.
Philippine and the Hawaii Mars Picture one is the Hawaii Mars sitting in Lake Cowichan in front of Caycuse in 1964. Picture 2 is the Philippine Mars sitting in Lake Cowichan in front of Caycuse 1968. I'm going by the tail colors to tell who is who, maybe someone can comfirm this ?
That's how I tell them apart - though the Hawaii seems to have gone through a variation of either a complete red vertical stab/rudder paint scheme or the earlier red vertical stab/white rudder paint scheme. The Philipine all white tail paint scheme is now just a memmory....
I shot this picture in Fort St. John Airport(Nothern BC) summer 2010
This is my favirite fire truck - an old Hayes WHD. She is very special and looks great.
Hayesno1 Yes old 36-92 is a classy old girl and does deserve to be saved. However she had a runnaway up in the Courtenay area of operations and was rolled over onto the drivers side I think The Cummins engine was over-reved and that put an end to that How-ever we are looking for another cummins to stuff into it. The big water tank on the back has been cut off so she is down to cab and chassis Long ago I ran the s/n of her and it seems to me she was originally a Cattermole truck and then with BCFP taking everything over she ended up at Elk River Timber Camp 8 Not sure on this though Maybe one of the ERT guys could shed some light on this. She is spect out the same as the ERT HDs were with the 47-40 rears and 14:00X24 tires . We know they had unit #s 14 15 and 17 were all the same only they had the GM 6-110 engines I will try and find where I wrote the s/n down and re-run it OK
1958 Harris Creek Heres a BCFP water tank ( no legs yet ) on back of a Hayes sry couldn't see the truck number. Picture 3 is a close up of picture 2
How many gallons could you guys carry in one of those tanks? Were they baffled by chance?
Born2clearcut; Great pictures as usual. I have never seen this type of tank before with rounded corners and raised so tank level out with top of bunk. I guess it was not very easy to drive that truck when tank was sitting so high(high gravity)
Thanks alot Hayesno1 , I thought this tank was alittle odd also, but you just never know what you'll see in the bush .I hope to do some more scanning and resizing very soon .
Hayesno1 That was how they were back before industry introduced the Pre-Load trucks to the scene. Usually there was a jinpole around camp that would lift the tanks onto the back of the trucks. Disgruntled driver would come back from the log dump with the trailer down and unhook it then go over and usually the Fire Warden of his helper were there to help you drop the tank on the back of the truck. The tanks were built in such a way that they would straddle the bunk and then the driver would chain everything down and then go over and fill the tank The above tank was from a rail road application and that explains the rounded corners--a close up would reveal the rivits. This tank was really built up to straddle the bunk. That kept it from sliding around And Yes all the tanks had baffles in them. These tanks held anywhere from 2000Gals to 5000Gals. With the introduction of the PreLoad trucks it became a lot faster to swap from a logging configuration to Fire Tanker ready. The stand alone tanks with the legs are only for the preloads whereas the style tank pictured above would only fit on the Conventional trucks and would use some kind of lifting device to load/unload them.The tanks would have some kind of fire pump bolted to the top of the tank as well as a box full of shovels and polaski's and spare 100ft legnths of hose. Most now are a small Honda or something like that to pump the water up/down to the fire and the driver is the pump operator. Many a WAJAX Fire pump got abused because they would not start and drivers are not known to have a very long fuse Just grab a spray can of instant power (either) she will go. When you see some of the equipment around today that would be used in the event of a forest fire I think the best thing anybody could do is drive it right into the fire as a peace offering and hope the fire would go out itself
It's ashame those Wajax pumps would get abused like that they are a phenomenal little machine. Our Fire Department here has an old milk tanker with a big dump gate at the back for filling portable pools, but no pump so I'm trying to convince the other members that we should mount either a proper fire pump like a Wajax or a Honda powered equivalent or our big C.E.T. pump just with quick release fittings so we can still use it to draft from ponds and creeks. I think the tank which is unbaffled holds about 4,000 gallons or so.
I remember those little two cycle floater pumps that you hooked a hose on then proceeded to rip the skin off your hand trying to start, they used to pull the starter cord right through your fingers, once running you threw them out on the water and they pumped away until out of gas then repeat the process all over, I can't remember the name on these devil pumps.
Yeah I've had to fight with those things before I can't recall if they were another Wajax manufacturer but I think they were simply called floto-pumps.
245dlc Dont get me wrong here NOT all the pumps were treated in such a manner but from time to time a pump would not start no matter what you did. Wajax were by far the BEST there was around for the use they got. Every logging fire hall had these things lined up and all serviced ready to go. After the truck had the tank loaded on the back while it was filling with water the Fire Warden and his helper would pass up the fire pump and the driver would bolt the pump down with the suction hose already on it. There was a huge plywood box already on them with axe's and shovels as well as hundreds of feet of hose rolled up all stowed away. The 5 gallon Jerry cans were the fuel tanks for these pumps and they were usually stowed in with the fire equipment.
Oh I believe it. I spent my latter years as a teenager on a Volunteer Fire Department we were classified as cadets and weren't suppose to see much front line action but due to manpower shortages and because we were a small organization I got the same training and got quite familiar with the Wajax pumps. The one floto pump we had despite good maintenance practices always was a challenge. A little later on in my 5 years with that Fire Department I got onto Manitoba Conservation's Emergency Fire Fighter (EFF) list and even got some of their so called training (I've heard they don't do much if any training anymore) and they had the same issues with the 'flotopumps'. Now I'm married and settled down and out of the city I joined the local Fire Department here, and they certainly don't have much for wildland equipment despite how many moving grassfires and bushfires we've been getting as of late. However they did manage to buy a second backpack leaf blower which works wonders on grassfires and a combination rescue/bush truck with a remote controlled monitor and 300 gallon tank. A friend of mine made a bracket to mount a gas powered pump to fit onto our pumper so we can do pump and roll operations with it and I'm trying to convince them to do the same for the tanker but with a V-twin 20 horsepower pump. Where did you guys get water in that mountainous country?
What do you have under the tanker for a truck. The best setup I have seen/used was a tanker truck (2500gals)with a PTO driven pump. They were plumbed up so that the PTO pump could be used to pump water from the tank to the fire or by switching valves the PTO pump could draw water from a pond or other water source to fill the tank or the PTO pump could draw water from a creek or pond and send directly to the fire hoses bypassing the tank altogether. The tank also had additional quick couplers to use Wajax pumps. When starting a Wajax do not put the starting cord between you fingers but grab the cord with your whole hand ahead of the knob so that when it backfires it doesn't rip it out between your fingers. Learned that trick years ago with the old chain saw in the 60s. Also if you are using a Wajax on the ground be sure to protect several of the first few feet of the fire hose as the vibration from the Wajax will quickly wear holes in the hose especially on gravel or shot rock roads. Protection in this case is just something under the hose like boards or branches or whatever is at hand.
Out here we have Fire Tanker Fill up sites at a number of lakes and creeks as well as a few really old rail road tanks that are placed high on a bank at the side of the road with a creek running close to it. In the summer the pipe from the RR tank is thrown into the creek and it fills with water over a period of time and when full it just spills over the top and overflow goes back into the creek. (in the fall these are drained and just left)These will fill at least two big Tankers before being drained and by then the Fire Warden has his Volume pumps set up in the lake or river as seen in the above pictures. Every logging side has a small fire truck right near the landing that is used in the event they get a fire going due to running lines over a rock face or siwashed around a stump.These are used untill the big tankers get there if needed. Some camps might have had as many as 15 sides working so every one had a small truck there as a first responder. These were quite often very old badly worn units with a water tank and a Wajax pump mounted on them and a coat of red paint-- but with the big tankers as back-up it worked very well. In 1967 there was a terrible fire out on the Alberni/Tofino highway called the Taylor River fire Started with a BC Hydro accident. In terms of equipment and manpower it was incredible All the logging camps had tanker trucks and off highway lowbeds hauling cats and equipment everywhere as well as anything that would hold water was there -- Martin Mars bombers, Even Kelsey Bay Division sent down a couple fire tankers (Kenworth Chain Drives) Now that must have been one hell of a trip for them!!!! Funny that very few pictures survived that because there are not many around. In the forest today if there is a fire we dont fight it anymore because we are not Qualified!!!!! The BC Government has QUALIFIED PEOPLE to do this kind of thing. You must have a certificate to show that you can actually fight fire! OH and a uniform! IMAGINE if you will a bunch of loggers running nilly willy all over out there in the toulies with a fire hose. A formula for disaster! Every year we must take an online coarse to prove that you are worthy and understand that in the event of a fire you WILL not be a dummie you will GET IN THE CRUMMIE and you will leave the area post haste !!! Leave it to the people that are trained for such things. My how time has changed. We still have the Fire Tankers but they are more for show and tell than fighting fires. BUT they are fun to drive Kind of like a time machine if you will Two sticks and a buzzin duzzin!!! pure music
Well currently our Fire Department doesn't have a Wajax sadly and when I showed the Chief what one costs I don't think he was impressed (the new ones with a 4 stage pump are $5,000CAD). As for a tanker ours is a late 90's Freightline FL-80 with a 3306 Cat coupled to an Allison Automatic with leaf suspension. We do have a large portable four stroke pump that uses the hard suction pipes from our pumper if we need to fill tankers or draft from a pond or creek it has two 2 2 1/2" discharges and it can fill our tanker with a single 2 1/2" line in about 15 minutes or so. I don't know enough about tranny's to know if we could put a pto and a pump on it so that's why I suggested using our big pump I described before so at least we can have a pump and roll capability. But here's a couple pictures of our tanker from my photobucket page. Oh this is the pump we have http://www.abcfireandsafety.com/product_p/cet-firepumppfp-20hphnd-2d.htm
That's a darn good looking water tank compared to what I'm used to. As far as the Allison is concerned there will be a plate on it to accommodate a PTO output. All I'm suggesting is an option for you. I found the trucks with the PTO pump had versatility, gave us options and seemed to be able to roll up to the fire and start pumping water while everybody farted around for a while trying to get their Wajax pumps working
Martin in Lake Shasta a few years back
Few more from Northern Cal.
A few more...
Murk100, Great pictures!
Sweet pictures! What does that amphib 206 have for an engine? An RR250? Just curious...
Hi HDX that would be something to see a chaindriven truck that isn't in a museum. lol I googled B.C.'s fire program not long ago just out of curiosity I was pretty impressed from what I read and saw, their program looks much like what's setup south of the border in places like California. I know a couple guys that got on with the program here in Manitoba and it's kinda a joke in comparison all their training seems to be on the job and nothing to prepare them before hand. We don't have severe terrain that B.C. and Alberta have but we do have wind and lots of timber and the last two summers, little if any rain. Hi Dunwurken if we put a pto on this truck would it be able to 'pump and roll'? Many of our fires are moving grass fires and they can move with great speed with our fierce prairie wind as I quickly discovered this past fall. Our pumper that's in those pictures when I put it into pump gear you can't drive and pump with it, but some other fire departments in the area can with their pumpers.
Here are some of my pictures from a fire we had this fall we had several Fire Departments in the area assisting with it, we weren't able to get any help from the province as our Municipality doesn't have any crown land and most of the water bombers were apparently working a larger fire to the southeast of us that burnt a timber bridge and a couple houses. The land is a combination of grassland and brush and on a bit of a gravel esker so it was very very dry and being the end of September we get a lot of really windy weather that made the situation that much worse I think we had wind speeds up to 75-80 km/hr first from the north then switching over the south and back again. The only private property lost was a garage, a pole barn, and an old motor home and some barbed wire fence when a D6R was trying to cut a fire break. We also almost lost our pumper when the wind suddenly came up just before noon on the second day while the guys were trying to put out a stubborn ditch fire that blew up and burnt some hose (to bad it didn't burn stupid thing is a boat anchor).
Allison C20B, 420 HP the bro loved this plane...Coulsons replaced it with a S-76 Heli with infared cameras etc.
Even though the 206 looks pretty, if I was driving that 206 I would not want have the Martin Mars behind me cause I know it would closing at about 50 knots!!
Thanks to Wikipedia I see the Allison C20 is now called the RR250....sounds like the Madill, Cypress, Thunderbird thing There is a show on Discouvery Channel.ca called Mighty Planes Martin Mars you should be able to stream it...
245dlc You would have to do some research on the Allison and on PTOs. There are many different PTOs some are only good for high idle but some can take more speed and torque required to run a fire pump. (hint: probably not a good idea to shop at Princess Auto) If you want to know what abuse some PTOs on Allison transmissions can take, think of a garbage truck. PTO driving a Hydraulic pump. About as harsh treatment as you can imagine.
Yeah I figured I'd check and see if you or somebody else knew a little more about tranny's and pto's. Our municipality isn't big on spending money on fire protection so it would probably be cheaper for us to use an existing pump that we already have for example we have two 3" gas powered pumps but because of our well water here the impeller's seized but that's always fixable. One of the pumps had a special bracket made so it would sit on top of the pumper just above the tank access so a suction hose could be dipped in and somebody could sit on a hose bed and do a pump and roll kind of thing there. I know a lot of trucks like plow trucks use to have a pto run off the front of the engine and could be turned on and off by some kind of air actuated clutch. I use to drive for a guy from time to time who had and ex-city dump truck setup like that so it could run a snowplow and sander continously. Oh well all stuff to take into consideration when we have our next training session in the new year. Happy New Year everybody!
Probably best to keep it simple, If you have the pumps just mount them up and your good to go. Putting it up on top is the easiest however if you have someplace to mount the pump lower and have the suction side fed by a connection low on the tank it serves two purposes. One it keeps the creww off the top of the tank and is easier to work on and two you don't have to worry about priming the pump. Gravity will do that for you. Just a thought. BTW. Do you drink the water from those wells? If it screws up the impellers I can't imagine what it's doing to your innards !!
Yeah the back of the tanker has a compartment big enough for a three inch pump. But the big four inch with the V-twin Honda might be too big. I think the safest thing to do is run a hose into the cab and have a guy in the passenger seat be the nozzleman unless we could afford a remote bumper mounted monitor.
most garbage trucks run front mount PTO's that are run off of the front of the engine not the transmission. but there are oilfield applications and some hydroseeders that will run 550 horsepower through a PTO
Yeah I guess there are lots of different option out there it's just a matter of what money our Fire Department has, political will, and the fact we need a new pumper sooner than later.
What are people's thoughts on using a 3" Honda powered pump in place of a proper high pressure pump like a Wajax any experience with using one?
depends on how much fire you want to fight. Most "fire" suppression pumps are 75HP+
It depends on the application, flow and pressure you want. I would say if it's filling a tender and you aren't in a huge rush that would be a reliable setup. Probably cheaper and mor robust than a Wajax high pressure setup.
Nah just wondering how effective it would be for pump and roll or to use a handline fighting grass fires and small bush fires. We carry a big CET pump in the back of the pumper that has two 2 1/2" discharges that we can fill tankers with this is what it looks like: http://www.fire-pump.com/pfp-20hpHND-2D.html Our neighbouring Fire Department has one to and in the pictures I posted above you'll see a dugout where we had it set up and wow did that thing fill up the tanker in a hurry with one hose. But I think it'll be a struggle to convince the Chief to install it in the tanker even with a quick connect setup. So that's why I ask how well a 3" pump can push water through a 1 1/2" line. If I had my way I'd put a remote control monitor on the front bumper if not a full deck gun on top of the tank and big pump like this: http://www.fire-pump.com/pfp-26hp-DSL-MR.html
That diesel pump would be the ticket! I am betting that there are some 3" pumps that would do fine if the friction loss wasn't too much on an 1 3/4" line. There are so many kinds of little pumps surely they make one that would fit the bill. Tenders are great for working on brush piles and deep seated fires. I like your idea, would it be easier to plumb from the cet pump and put a small hose tray in?
That's what I'm wondering a small hose tray or even a booster hose reel made for 1 1/2" hose would be good and I'm not sure about plumbing from the CET pump that we have I believe it's a 4" suction fitting on it and the tanker itself has a 4" Storz connection for filling from hydrants (if the town would ever install any) so maybe a gated why off of that fitting and a flexible connection to the pump with a Storz on it for easy disconnecting? That way the tanker can still utilize it's regular 4" fitting for filling or connecting to a pumper etc.
Philippine Mars US Navy Museum restoration before she got some blue paint. [video=youtube;w3ICQg1CwqU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3ICQg1CwqU[/video]
HDX; Re post #91 - thanks for sharing information. Here is an old HDX from 1959 - several pics has been posted of her before. She is still going strong These pics were shot in summer 2005 when she was running for WFP in Campbell River. Close up pics shows how tank has been tightend with chains..
I think your idea would work well. Plus I wouldn't require more costly plumbing to be done on the tank itself.
Here a few pics shot in 2005 when they were doing some maintenance at Sproat Lake
At last I found the pictures of the Coleman truck and the Donald Duck IHC maintanence truck..
Hayesno1 What were these trucks used for? And the 4 door 4x4, was it custom made? AWESOME!!
STEVEGODSEYJR; I think they use her as a steer tow truck for the waterbombers on the ramp. I think it is an old US Air Force truck. When I spotted her way back in 2005 I knew right away it was a Coleman truck so I must have seen pictures of her somewhere but sadly I can't remember where. Maybe someone can ad some information.. Coleman trucks were made in Colorado.
Pics of KW 848 or 849 preload firetruck.
Closeup pics of another KW preload firetruck, WFP Holberg Div.
Hayesno1 That Coleman truck was/is the prototype for Coleman Trucks Friend of mine from Brighton Colorado is very close with the guy who built them and when he went over it about 15 years ago he tracked her and the builder told him that it was the first. He is in the process of writing a book about them. His name is Donald Chew He showed me the manuscript for another book he was writing about Snow Crawlers and other Artic transport vehicles and devices that were used in the north and south poles as well as Alaska that have now been lost to history. This guy is a walking encyclopedia about these unique vehicles. He is also very bigtime into the American Truck Historical Society.
Thanks for information HDX. As I have been a member of ATHS for many years I guess I must have seen picture of the Coleman truck in Wheels of Time. Looking forward to get that book. Bu the way I just saw there is a book about trucking in BC - 100th aniversary. I better order that. Here a few pica of a KW W900 IPL fire truck unit #F-102.
Those books were about 50.00 when they came out before christmas and we dropped by Costco and there they were for 29.00
I just payed $35 for it from Amazon.ca with shipping, not bad considering we don't have a Costco here
This is a pretty cool video of some water bombers... http://adventuresinmikeslife.blogspot.ca/2012/09/blog-post.html
Pacific P510S or P512S fire truck
Here 2 Kenworth fire trucks in summer time and maybe act as sander trucks in the winter. I am not sure if they welded the water tank to the top of the sander box. One of the trucks might be a RB Hayes - look at bumper etc.
Hayesno1 Good pics as usual Yes the first KW has an HD HAYES front bumper The slip in water tanks were made by SMITH same company that made the sand box's. They were just a drop in tank--You lifted the screen off with a machine and set it off to the side then dropped in the water tank .They had a taper to match the box and some were just a tank that followed the contours of the sandbox All depended on what you ordered. The screens were for loading the sand. When we would use them in the winter we would get sand /gravel etc almost anything that would cover the ice or packed snow on the roads from anywhere . Back then it was very common to just grab it where we could Out of an old pit or a bank or even in creekbeds that had dried up due to the river being diverted, The loader would just keep piling it on and whatever ran off the screens was too big to go through the two hoppers. Anything that would sift through the screens would come out the hoppers with no problem. This was a simple way to get total use out of a Fire Tanker rather that having it used only in fire season. Smith was a VERY GOOD SYSTEM. Some had the truck exhaust running through the box(double wall'd) the trucks above have this option(note the two square outlets at the rear top of box) and this would keep the box warm and stop the sand from freezing inside the box. Some of the early ones we got (1970-1971) we used 100 lb propane tanks mounted on bracket's with flame thrower heads on them to keep the box's warm. These things work outstanding with the right driver on the truck. You could adjust the spinner speeds and the hopper gates (doors) to regulate the amount of sand you wanted coming out as well as the spread pattern you wanted. If for instance you were sanding the mainline -you had truck road speed as well as wider roads so you would open everything up more to give a wider spread pattern than than if you were doing spurs or branch lines. We could always tell where the sandtruck driver missed a shift because there was a little telltale pile of sand where there shouldnt be LOL We all did it Thanks for posting these pics Sure does bring back a lot of memories!!!!!
HDX; thanx for great information as usual. That KW with HD Hayes bumper looks a bit odd. Look at fender and how close front tire is to the front of fendes. Could it be a HD chassis?
Here is another LW900 KW fire truck. It looks like she got a propane tank at top of the water tank. What was the purpose of that? Sorry! Maybe I should had posted these pics at the M&B thread... LOL.. I think this is old #H156????
Hayesno1 I think its an air tank!! Probably for the air operated gate valves on the fire tank. The truck is being used as a water truck in the dryland sort for dust control and the air operated gate valves are controled from the cab. Driver just drives around and controls the flow of water as he needs it. Im not sure if the spinners under the valves are hydraulic same as the sand trucks but I would guess they are. This is a great example of guys coming up with ideas that work well for their application. As for the sandtruck No she is in fact a KW but with shop built fenders and probably a bumper off an older HD Hayes that they scrapped. Its the swept back angle that makes it look so close to the tires Remember the KW had flat front bumpers so this just throws you off looking at it Very neat job though.
On those sander/tanker trucks is that a pump beneath the tarp on top of the tank?
Martin Mars Water Bomber Taxiing in after a test flight [video=youtube;B91cD8xh6-o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B91cD8xh6-o[/video]
Philippine Mars 1963 Heres couple more pictures of the Philippine Mars .Not much left after the fire has done it thing.
Old White Wester Star fire truck parked at WFP Gold River Div.
Pacific P16 truck with preloader watertank. The tank was made by Pacific as well. You can all most see the Pacific name at tank. right above "Lift rear leg first". Nice old Pacific truck
Drove that truck many years ago in Zeballos .It should have a fifth wheel plate on it. Had an preload trailer that the loader had to lift off, hence the arms over the cab where the the front bunk of the trailer sat.
075; thanks for very interesting information. Are you reffering to arm on right side - left is missing I think!
Old question, but since I seem to be by default the Morooka whisperer, I thought I should add my two cents worth. Several very nice wildland firefighting machines have been built on Morooka chassis, but none of them to my knowledge ever saw service due to resistance on the part of other manufacturers and the owners of those machines and water trucks, IMHO. In every instance some "rule" on the part of a government agency was used to ban them from work, in California it was the lack of factory ROPS, in Montana they said the machine needed steel cleats on the rubber tracks because it would slide on the dry bear grass, and in another case either Oregon or Washington I am not sure, they said the machine was required to travel at 11 miles per hour or more, or it could not work. 11MPH ain't gonna outrun a wind driven fire, but what the hell do I know, I don't have any letters behind my name. But by the way, if anybody wants a rubber tracked off road truck with factory ROPS, steel cleats as an option for the rubber tracks and a top speed of 12 MPH, just drop me a line and have your checkbook ready. If that's against the rules, go ahead and delete it, LOL. Just having a bit of fun anyway.... :Banghead
H43 had the fifth wheel plate too but it had bunk on it and a regular trailer , they may have did the same to H42 , as the preload trailers were really heavy and hard for the smaller loaders to unload. Because I do not remember the headache rack being up on the water tank .
Would you have any pictures of this Morooka tracked machine with a firefighting unit on it? I think people would be more interested if they some pictures of it, especially with it in action or a video. I know my Fire Department is considering something like a Polaris Ranger 6x6 with a tank, pump, and booster hose reel on it.
Can't find the ones I had of a nice professionally built one that had a remote controlled monitor and all, but here's a couple links that might show something of interest: http://www.wildlandfire.com/pics/equip6/equip6.htm http://www.ironsideconstruction.com/#!__home/gallery Lots of interest but to my knowledge none of the few units built ever saw much if any service in actual firefighting.
thanks lantraxco as i figured 2000 gallons is a lot larger load than any fmc or skidgen i have ever seen. would that "erics marooka" travel anywhere the wheel skidder would go? sounds well equiped and a great tool hopefully in catches on. have you ever seen a logging grapple and arch on one?............theironoracle
They/We make bigger units also, and of course smaller ones. As high as 40,000 pound payload, which would include the tank, so far. These rubber tracked machines do have their limitations but as a rule will climb a 30 degree slope fully loaded and they have a low center of gravity so they're pretty stable. Making one into a skidder could be done, but would kind of defeat the low impact nature of the design. Also, the tracks are fairly easy to damage and have to be replaced in one piece unlike the metal tracks or the Nodwell/Foremost/Softrack/Gotrack type machines with repairable track assemblies. That being said, here's a picture of a forwarder a friend of mine built from a used Morooka as a prototype, we're in the design stage of building the next generation now for him: You know, it never occurred to me but you could use on of those plastic water tanks, set it on and off with the loader and power a pump off the hydraulics pretty slick. Hmmm... hell yeah, LOL:Banghead
WFP firetrucks - 1 old KW and 2 Western Stars
Hayesno1 The old kenworth in the picture unit#2155 was originally one of the trucks bought by Master Mechanic Hal Fladager down at Jordan River from Inland Kenworth. I dont remember if they were Rayonier then or still Canadian Puget Sound (CPS) I know the HD Hayes's and the Pacific's were CPS but im not sure when the change came.They were the trucks bought to replace the HD Hayes's and P9 pacific's that were being retired and put out to pasture. Some were traded in and some were used as Fire Tankers and one of the HD's became the Line horse. I will dig up the picture of it from way back when! Those LW's were pretty classy all lined up in front of the shop on weekends. Good post as usual Thank You
HDX; thanks for interesting information. Here 2 Pacific P500 fire trucks.
Doing a drop above Mowatt Bay on Powell Lake , Block bay booming ground in the background . This picture was taken in summer 2005 . Couple of kids started a fire on the side hill at Mowatt bay ,the bomber was called in to contain the fire. The kids were caught ..
Martin Mars Water Bomber Tribute [video=youtube;uEUrjRKiEic]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEUrjRKiEic[/video]
Hayes HD fire/sander truck
A bit off topic but i give it a try, so many guys here with tons of knowledge. On my way to Europe from the old Vancouver Intnl. airport in 1968 my plane, a DC8 was delayed due to engine failure, they announced that a new engine was under way. After a while i spotted the plane, another DC8 with a spare engine under its wing. My question is; was this a usual practice to fly in spare engines, ive always wondered? Another question while im at it; flying from the same airport towards Port Hardy with a twinpowered turboprop plane, one engine stopped and we had to return back and landed safely, what type of aicraft could that be? I attach a couple pics. thanks Sigurd
Sigurd, I can't answer the second question but the first question, yes it was quite common for an aircraft to carry an extra engine to wherever it was needed. Quite often they would not fit into the cargo bay of the aircraft they were being carried on so they just put aerodynamic fairings on them and mounted them on a special pylon and then to the wing... They did it quite often with 747s, you will sometimes see in a picture a pod just like that DC8 that had the extra engine inside it. You don't see it much anymore these days but back in the day it was a pretty routine thing to do...
Spitzair, thank you for the reply Sigurd
Holy Crap! Look at the right side of that sander box. There must have been a blizzard and a really early start when that got loaded. And no lights on the loader.
Repearted roll-overs have a way of doing that!!! Sliding into the ditch and bumping into Vancouver Island rock bluffs also kind of leaves its mark on things. Put 17 yards of wet sand in there then lift the box up to max spreading height and add ice on the road You have the above picture
I work for soft track attack in yaak montana running fmc skidgines. hands down best job ever
Here's a couple off cool shots I found of the old girl.. It would sure be nice to see it fighting fire again,
Slow Motion Martin Mars [video=youtube;0uJRJ02XpdQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uJRJ02XpdQ[/video]
Well here we go. First fire on Timberwaste land just back of town. Chopper been flying for 2 hrs,not around now but smoke bellowing up. Looking right into sun and cannot get a picture.
Hello Can you give me the GPS of the fire, I would like to film the action From google maps right click the area the fire is,Then click the what here box and the GPS ith show up top left Thanks
Time lapse,I will do my best. I put in Comox Logging road in Ladysmith and Pin dropped in area of fire but I do not see any GPS numbers
Ok Thanks [video=youtube;izeAbJ-eMvM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izeAbJ-eMvM[/video]
TimeLapse,a message from Google says it is not permitted in this area.
Pacific P9 dump truck used as fire truck. Owner Holbrook Dyson, summer 2005 on Vancouver Island
Another Pacific P9 converted to fire truck, Campbell River.
Holbrook & Dyson Western Star fire truck
Hawaii Mars Water Bomber Air Strike Hit on the Sktuz Falls Fire from 4 camera angles in one video, July 28,2015 [video=youtube;X59F6ZXiKMw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X59F6ZXiKMw[/video]