I got a call from the promoter to put a flat track race on at my oval track. Last year was a last minute race and I agreed to only charge $500/day for the track because there could be a low turnout. Normally I would want $30/rider unless the promoter paid a much higher flat rate at least $1000. I made the mistake last year not asking what happens if there is a better turnout. Knowing from last year the guy is a shyster I was more prepared for him this year. He made up a BS story that some riders were drinking on the Sat. night and there were more crashes on the Sun. than any other race so this year would be a Sat. only race but riders could pay me directly if they wanted to stay and practice on the Sun. There was maybe 3 minor crashes over the 2 days. One older fast rider (who had a bad crash at another track a year or 2 ago) crashed and this promoter blamed it on the track. Interestingly that rider really liked the track and said he just hit a small slick spot. He didn't blame the track at all. I told him I want $30/rider but he wanted to pay a flat rate of $750. I asked what happens if there's a really good turnout and he was stuck on still only paying $750. I said I have to be compensated if there is a big turnout of riders. Then he asked if I'd be OK at $30/rider if only 15 riders showed up. I said the minimum to put on a race is $500 (what he paid last year). He then said there were 22 riders last year which comes to $660. He got a hell of a deal for $500! He also said sign in is only $40 is why he can't pay more. I'm thinking it was $60 from what I heard last year but regardless he could charge a little more to pay for the track. I also forgot he also charges every rider extra for a pit pass. I think it was $15 but not sure. Either way he's making a lot of money and should easily be able to pay $30/rider regardless if 20 or 100 show up. I offered $750 up to 40 riders and over that $15/rider which in hindsight I should have said up to 35 riders. I think I'm being more than reasonable. He tells me there are other tracks he can use but there is a committee this year so he will discuss it with them. Should I have just said $30/rider with no cap but minimum $500 or go pound sand? When ever the MX track has an event the sign in fee's are split equally between the club and the track which is the fairest way to do it. It's hard to lose an event but I'm tired of being taken advantage of.
It's never good policy to allow your customer to set your pricing in any business. You know what your expenses are to maintain the track and you're entitled to make whatever profit you see fit. He says he's got another track? Let him go. I bet he's bluffing.
I am almost positive he doesn't have another track that has all the required equipment to prep and groom the track. Just having the equipment means it's a lot less work for him. He doesn't have to try and get volunteers or a county to bring equipment out. Talking with a guy who helps me at the track and also rides, brought up a good point too. Sep. 24 is after kids go back to school so there could be families that don't drive up to the track because the kids go to school on Monday. It's also very late in the season so there's about a 50% chance there could be snow on the ground. Also got more insight on a couple guys who were drinking last year. Apparently they were bragging about how much they drank on the Sat. after the race. Why did the promoter sign them in for the Sun. race if they were clearly hung over? Money over safety??? Hmm. That's on you not the track and a stupid reason not to have a 2 day race. I'm not worried if I lose a race. There are a few riders not happy with this promoter that are thinking about starting a new club.
Why do you need this promoter? you have the contacts ( you know some of the riders and they will know others who others etc) and most importantly you have the track and the land, you could make yourself quite the event with a little input. a three day weekend races on Friday and Saturday, party Saturday night local band/cook out, and Sunday social riding ( only if pass a breathalyser ) . The UK car equivalent of this at a drag racing event. The weekend ticket is £120 per person ($150), 3 runs down the strip £40 ($50) per car. Admittedly one of the UK's largest car events but gives you an idea of what could be done.
There are a few guys not happy with this promoter and say we can do our own thing. I think the biggest issue is getting people to lap score. Can't afford the electronic system that uses transponders yet. I was thinking about it and I really doubt more than 40 riders would show up at the end of Sep. Looking online most tracks do charge extra after so many cars or bikes and have minimums. If I charged a flat rate of $500 to prep the track but only $20/rider seems reasonable to me and would result in a lot more than $750. For 40 riders even if I charged $10/rider is still more than $750. Yeah, I don't think I'm being the unreasonable one. A $500 track prep. fee and $15/rider with 25 riders still comes out to $875. At $750 for up to 40 riders he's getting a he'll of deal! If he says no, so be it. I'm not going to get screwed again.
Figure up how much time and wear and tear on your equipment to do track prep, that's the upfront payment, then figure how much to return the track after an event, that's the per rider cost. Make sure you are making money, if not don't do it
That's why I think $30/rider is fair and $750 total for up to 40 riders is ridiculously cheap. I've always heard, "don't sell yourself cheap".
Ide tell them $100 a rider just to get rid of him
If your trying to get rid of him tell him a steep but doable amount, who knows he might take it and you will make bank. He might be out of tracks to use lol
Showtime! What kind of race will this be? Will there be dozers, excavators, motor graders, scrapers, tractor/loader/backhoes flying around the track? How about track loaders (not ctl), off road haul trucks, wheel loaders or other earthmoving equipment? Forklifts/telehandlers, cranes or other construction/demolition equipment racing through the corners at high speed would put on a good show, wouldn’t it? If you’re talking compact excavators, compact wheel loaders, skid steers, compact track/multi terrain loaders, mini skid steers or other compact equipment with compact equipment attachments – I’m in! Pavers, rollers, mills and other paving equipment would be kind of slow and boring, unless there was a good wreck, wouldn’t you say? Are lasers, gps systems, integrated machine control or computer applications and 3D modeling permitted during the races? How will administrative duties in the office, jobsite coordination, safety issues, personnel, shop talk, industry interaction, financing and upcoming events be handled? What about forestry equipment that the forestry operations people will want to race, is that part of the program? Same question for agricultural equipment. Speaking of farmers - “lubrication” - does that mean liquor, beer? Hope so. What about trucks and trailers? There are equipment moving questions. Will there be a separate classes for old iron(!) or models and miniatures? If people have equipment for sale or have a wanted list will the geek patrol shut them down? Please keep us informed if there are any announcements about safety competitions, test forums or new members. Shame on me.
It almost sounds like the old Truck Dispatch brokers had to deal with. They sucked the cream off the top leaving the dregs for the worker bees. And the same as to Three Stooges gives one dollar, one for me one for you, gives second dollar, Two for you and takes Two for self Two For Me, gives another dollar, Three for you, counts off Three and Three for Me, etc etc etc, count never really ads up to Even.
The thing that he seems to have the biggest issue with is he doesn't want to pay any extra if there is a bigger turnout of riders. He wants to get the track at a fixed price as low as possible and then keep all the extra if there is a bigger turnout of riders. He knows I'd like $30/rider. The $750 he offered comes to 25 riders. Last year with the race being put on with less than 2 weeks notice he only paid $500 (the lowest I would do it) thinking there might be a low turnout of only 14 to 16 riders. There were 22. I made the mistake thinking he would be fair and offer a little extra because of the higher turnout. Bad mistake on my part. He also screwed me over for some fence but that's another issue. I think he figured that I'd be delighted he's offering $750 this year. Let's see 22 riders with extremely short notice the 1st year and basing a track fee on only 25 riders with notice before the season begins the next year. Hmmm, and the riders really liked the track. I'm thinking the long notice and positive reviews are likely to bring a lot more than 3 more riders than last year. $750 is certainly not a premium price to pay that there can be an unlimited number of riders. In fact my offering the track for $750 up to 40 riders is dirt cheap, only $18.75/rider if 40 show up. $15 each for any riders after 40 also seems more than reasonable to me. I need to use my tractor, grader, water truck, skid steer, dump truck(for packing) and water pumps to prep. the track and parking/pit area. May need to use my track loader with backhoe too. You can't just put a load of water on a packed track and you're good to go. The water needs to penetrate into the soil and in order for that the track has to be ripped up, watered, leveled and lightly packed and then scarified again and watered and packed again. It could take 8000 gallons of water, 4 truck loads. In takes a few days to get the track race ready. I'm sure they don't want the pit area to have foot tall grass so it needs to be cut before the event. I think I'm being more than reasonable.
To me that seems dirt cheap, you have a lot of equipment and time in it.
Fuel isn't cheap nor is maintenance and repairs on the equipment. To hire a big dozer (JD 850J WLT) to clear the area for the flat track and a 200 size hoe to dig the clay and bury the bush cost $25K! It isn't just an oval layed out in a field. It's a purpose built track.
You own the land, prep the track, clean up the mess afterwards, and insure against lawsuits. I would think it would be $5k per day, not $500.
With what you just mentioned in equipment and diesel, I cannot see you even breaking even a any price under 2500.
Forgot if this is mentioned or not: Why do you not charge a gate fee for all who enter? It is fairly standard. That is the money used to pay for restrooms, cleanup, etc...
The promoter pays the insurance to put on an event. The track is still being developed so no paid spectators yet. That said I think he'd want the money from spectators too. He made reference he could a get a track with spectators for less money. Maybe he could but I doubt it would have all the equipment and track prep done. He would have a lot more work to do himself getting all the equipment organized. That's why I don't think he puts enough value on me having all the equipment and doing all the track prep where he doesn't have to. I do have my own insurance for when riders practice at the track. Looking online most track rentals (not sure about big events, the tracks may do it themself) list a max. number of riders and additional riders over that pay extra. The base rental might only include watering but full race prep. conditions are an extra fee as well. I'd really like to find some people to help me promote and put on my own events. My sister says if the promoter isn't charging enough to cover track fee's is his problem not mine. The majority of riders run 2 or more classes. I'm only asking for $30 for the rider despite how many classes they race. Extra classes pay extra to the promoter. He makes enough money or he wouldn't be doing it. I also don't like his BS excuses why it can't be a 2 day event or the track was to blame because a rider went down. It's racing, accidents will happen regardless if the track is perfect or not.
Dave... You're in negotiations... Figure your minimum numbers. Any less and you're paying for everybody's fun. You might need to educate the promoter on the details of track prep. Then work from the minimum, so you're getting some of the fun too.
You also need to drop your consideration of the bit about he can go somewhere else, if you want to see how your prices fair with other tracks call them and ask them, don't get it from someone else. If your too high and the track sits all year you will know it, that's better than losing money on wear and tear and your self.
Some of the tracks may be less but are horse tracks and he has to do a lot more work himself and round up equipment to prep them. The big issue I have is he doesn't get a set rate and can have an unlimited number of riders for the same rate. He shouldn't be able to have all the extra proceeds for himself. I'm giving him a reasonable rate for the work involved and having all the equipment. Maybe if he was paying $1000 but even then there should be a limit. What if flat track got busy and 100 riders showed up. Hoping to start a club and put on my own races.
Hopefully this shows the beginning portion of building the track. There has been hundreds of more loads of clay added as well to shape it into a proper track. It certainly isn't a simple oval laid out in a field that a race promoter should get to make all the profit. With interest from the car guys even more clay is being added to bank the corners 3 to 4%. If the bikes don't put on races, the car guys will have more say in how the track develops so they can put on races. I also think there could be a good market to rent the track for testing and tuning of cars. Facebook www.facebook.com Facebook www.facebook.com