Trying to do a valve cover on a cat skidsteer. I avoided this for months because I knew it would suck like a hooker at a casino. Basically working blind and in a pretzel. After all the work to get to the bolts securing the valve cover, I have a couple that a fukrd. A couple others fought me and I realized these are shoulder bolts and they are trying to seize on the shoulder. The valve cover is Al. I tried an LP torch, popping the top of the heads with a punch, you name it. The heads are 10mm and I think the threaded bolt area is 8mm and shoulders are 10mm. I'd be torque spec is like 8lbft. And...I had to move from 1/4" drive all the way to 1/2" breaker bar! Of course I did not put the full gusto in the bar, but after an hour on one bolt, seems I have finally rounded the corners on the head.......of a bolt I can't even touch by hand, and struggle to see. I am FKD! to make this better, I have all the injector lines loosened and laying there. Metal shavings from grinding is NOT want I want in this deal! This situation is in all ways bad! And I pretty much knew it would go this way! FKN Kubota engine! If you don't talk to them exactly right, they pizz in your eyes and laugh at you.....'ahhhhh wooshie wooshie'..... I've never wanted a bolt to break this bad! I know in looking at the other bolts, the threads into the block are not the issue, it's that shoulder.
Have you pulled the rads yet? Really opens up the engine access and isn't a huge ordeal to do.
No, I had a misguided idea I could sneak in and get a simple gasket replaced. As I recall, the rad is an "all-in-one" with ever fluid running to it. I guess I was trying to avoid messing with it. But still won't resolve the bolt issues. Not really my first wrenching in life and was sure to use stub 6pt, be fully engaged, and talk nice. If I can just pop the corrosion loose, they should take very little torque. Some others were a single hand on a 1/4" ratchet. Been thinking about applications with an air chisel. Not sure if the Al valve cover will handle a direct hit. That's where I'd really like to hit it.
I'll laugh with you. I am guessing you could have run into one of those, like on you tube that says to use RED loctite on everything mechanics or wana be mechanics that know everything, just listen to em.
Near 100% certain this area has never been apart since built. No signs of loctite. As a design engineer, I simply HATE the stuff. Never in my life have I fought 2 simple bolts like this. And the ones in the exhaust that I was worried about? Butter...... I'm so glad I don't turn pro wrenches anymore.
Sometimes you just have to know even though it looks like you might technically have room, you should start pulling components anyway, so as to not get in a situation like this.
Did you say design engineer? Oh this would be too easy, but I won't kick a feller while he's down. Hope you get it sorted.
Can you get vise grips in there like a small pair? Use a butane lighter to heat it up and then let it cool 5-10 minutes
This sounds too easy so ignore it if need be.. Cover the injector lines w a rag or use some cap plugs.. Cut the dam cover in half to get to the bolts and buy a new cover.. BUT BEFORE DOING THAT.. locate a cover.. I’d hate to see u follow that advice and not be able to get a new v cover.. Good luck
Reminds me of watching a tech try to beat out a track rail pin and spends hours doing it. Its a $30 master pin....torch that pin and be done with it in less than 5 minutes
There are two ways to go about it air hammer vibrations and or heat cycling depending in what you have for room the work is done on the bolt not the valve cover use a welding tip on acetylene torch to make the bolt glow as much as you dare without melting the valve cover spray with water and repeat Air chisel to the bolt head let it vibrate and break the corrosion down other advantage is it will push the bolt head out a bit for another grip with the socket air hammer socket tool can be handy too can turn while vibrating
I'm one of the few that actually also turn wrenches (case and point) so that goes in my pipe when designing anything. Trust me, I also cuss armchair engineers as well, while working on POSs like I am now. VC is supposed to come off for "VALVE SERVICE". For that reason, making provisions for that would have been proper. Nope. Gotta take half the engine apart, pull blind bolts from hot turbo for EGR pipe, etc.
I wish this was as simple as tracks. The second I get to grinding, there is no doubt contamination will happen as the engine and open injectors are inside that cover. I think I will work with the air hammer and torch, and go until I have good a ruined those bolt heads. Then I think I can fracture the Aluminum ears with a chisel point on air hammer. Once I crack that, those bolts should come right out, but of course now shopping for a VC. Probably a grand or more.
3/8 drive right angle impact ratchet. Ive got a Milwaukee one.
I was able to weasel my 1/4" impact gun, which honestly has serious thump on level 3. I knew I was in trouble when it didn't handle it. I was then able to somehow get my big 1/2" gun in there on 3/8" gear but I stopped after a few taps at level 2. Basically I sneaked up on torque levels hoping the shock would finally do it. I don't like level 3 on my 1/4" have fragged an adapter and they explode. I know if I could get panther pizz down on that shoulder, it would prob work, but it will never make it past the hex flange of the bolt.
Have you considered something like THIS to grab on to that damaged bolt head.? either it will get the bolt out or shear it off. Either way you win......
I was sure I had a set of these somewhere. I was thinking on these yesterday but not sure if that shortly bolt hex has enough meat to let these screw down on. I just know once I go down that road, standard tools are off the menu. So far I have slipped over the hex on one of the bolts only once. They make some other extraction tools but honestly never needed them. I would say I have had to apply about 80lbft with no joy. On a bolt that probably is torqued to 10lbft.
I've got two Irwin brand sets of those from like 1/4 to 3/4, they have bailed me out on several occasions. may be worth a try but if he couldn't get any gription before stripping these may not work. Sorry to bust your stones but couldn't resist. Have seen lots of your other posts, seems like you got your ***** in the kit. Do the same thing to 2 of my good buds who are actually pretty functional wrench toting engineers.
Ha, no biggy! I'm just highly irritated in having to do the job in the first place. I didn't expect VC bolt issues at all! At least I am seasoned enough now to know when to walk away and think. As they say in wrenching, "every simple job is one broken bolt away from a 2 week project"
Us old guys say--get a plan and work the plan.
Acetylene either you win or it becomes a right off to the insurance
What skid steer is it in? Welding a larger nut on the bolts might be worth a try. The heat will help loosen the bolt and then you have larger hex to grab. Not sure how much room you have around the bolt though. If no room for a larger nut maybe a piece of flat stock with a hole drilled in it for a plug weld. Turning the bolt a 1/4 turn should be enough to loosen it. Then cut the flat bar off.
Agree with all of that Dave. Welding for me is typically a win, or at least confirmation that nothing is going to work. I will exhaust all else before a welder because that will certainly toast the head and probably ruin the valve cover as all that work will be completely blind. Otherwise I would be tagging on some 10mm nuts, give them a good hammer rap, and they usually come out. That intense and focused heat usually does the trick! Sometimes lucky enough to hear the bolt break free as it cools.
Did the induction point heater come up? I have an induction heater much like a solder iron that heats very small areas, very https://www.amazon.com/Induction-Innovations-MD-700-Mini-Ductor-Magnetic/dp/B008XN9HO6
I have an annular cutter adapter for my drill. It would prolly remove that nut and leave enough of the stud to remove it.
I wonder if you could put some heat past around the outside of the bolts and use a welding/brazing tip to heat the bolt heats. I forget what the heat paste is called but it comes in a tube and stops heat from transferring past it. Similar to silicone. I'll see if I can find the name of it.
Some good ideas. I always wanted a small induction heater as posted above. I was hoping to exploit the material properties by heating the whole area. Aluminum expands at 2x the rate of steel, so I was really wanting some head in the valve cover bosses but Aluminum is also highly thermally conductive so that heat runs away quick and there are some electric sensors in the valve cover so I didn't want to push to the max. If the area wasn't so constricted, I generally like to get a bolt to red hot briefly in hopes of knocking the heat treat out of it, making drilling the head mucho easier. These bolts are certainly of higher grade but no markings.
La-co Bloc it is the heat barrier I was thinking of but there are several other similar type products. It is used for things like stopping the heat from spreading to plastic fittings when soldering copper pipes.
I forgot you are struggling with a shoulder bolt, not a nut when I suggested using an annular cutter. Could you use an annular cutter to remove the bolt shoulder and then keep going just far enough to cut through the valve cover ? Any chance of posting a couple photos ?
Looks like I have more urgent matters with my Dmax truck so I will report back when my sanity returns and I get back to this little project.
Not sure if the problem bolts are #7 or #10 but they are both the same type. @92U 3406 had the best suggestion right back at the start about snatching the cooling package to make some room to work..........
#10 on intake side. #10 in that image is exhaust side. They are the ones in those deep valleys. I already loosened the #7s. They were all one handers as they should be.
Screw buster works great,most of the time
OUTSTANDING! I really like that approach! I literally have thought about making a similar device. Whether it works or not, I need those in my life! What you have me thinking is if I rapazap down on a 10mm socket, I can focuse that buzz right on the flange of the bolt head where I think it is also fighting me. Honestly, I think this approach will work! I will get to it once I get my urgent truck issue solved.