I have a ford 4500 backhoe. The power steering pump has enough fluid. When turning, it has power steering when turning right, but is hard to steer when turning left. Any ideas?
You need to adjust the linkage (like a turnbuckle) that operates the valve on the steering cylinder. It is down low in front of the radiator. This a normal problem for these old girls.
Thanks Mitch, What exactly am I adjusting & how? John
You're adjusting the linkage that opens the valve (on the cylinder itself) that sends oil to the steering cylinder. If I remember when I get to the shop I'll scan the instructions for you.
Thanks Mitch - you are a great resource!
When I looked at this picture I remembered that if the cylinder anchor pin nut gets loose it will cause this too. It is under the front end casting. I can't remember if there is a way to hold the pin and tighten the nut or if the pin is locked, but I'm sure you can tighten this nut from outside. I would have looked to see but it was pouring rain when I left the shop. Good Luck, Mitch :BangheadI scanned the instructions for adjusting the valve and have tried everything but hanging from the chandelier to post it. I tried it as a pdf and a bmp and couldn't get it to a size the forum would take. Send me an email at [email protected] and I'll email it back to you.:Banghead:bash:bash
Shop project on 4500 steering Here are some pictures of the steering cylinder with the valve on top. I replaced the center arm assembly pivot pin and the lower bushing on mine to get rid of a bunch of slack. I found that the A&I part they sell for the replacement won't work. I lucked out and found a retired Ford dealer in Kansas who had a new OEM part he couldn't wait to get rid of. I also replaced the bushing where the cylinder attaches to the center arm. The entire mess is a lot easier to work on if you take the radiator shield off and pull the radiator. I tried adjusting everything after I got it all back together but if I want it to turn both ways, I have to leave it where it wants to pull to the left all the time. I guess there must be a leak in the valve body. At $600 plus for a new cylinder I wasn't about to go there. I had to grind relief in the frame casting for the new hydraulic fittings which I used into the valve body or they hit. After some tweeking it works OK. I also found that the steering valve actuator arm has a pin and socket which engages the center arm casting and when it gets worn I figure that it allows to much movement to work perfectly. So mine works slightly imperfectly but it's 100% better than no power steering at all. Another reason to remove the radiator is that the right inner tie rod ball joint nut was loose and I had to remove everything to get at it. Oh and the radiator fins were completely plugged with old oil and dirt which required a lot of work with oven cleaner to get clean. The radiator shop spent 2 hours patching holes but couldn't get the dirt out. I had to do that myself. One other thing. When I reinstalled the new hydraulic pump I shimmed the mounting bracket up so the driveshaft wouldn't hit the pivot pin cover plate.
Anchor pin issues. PLEASE do not try to tighten the anchor pin. A new one costs $100 plus. The nut and keeper gizmo that is OEM is crap. It took a 10 foot cheater, a 3/4 drive socket and an adaptor I fabricated out of two 1 1/2 inch nuts to back the one I had out of the stripped hole in my front casting. Once I got the old anchor pin out I chased what was left of the threads in the casting. The pin is so hard that threads don't strip they break off like glass. To lock the readjusted pin in it's proper location, I drilled and tapped two 1/2 threads to intersect the harded anchor pin through the casting and ground 2 flats on the pin to recieve the grade 8 set screws. I used JB weld as a thread locker on the set screws. I found that the pin will bind the power assist cylinder rod pivot unless care is taken to insert the correct shims under the pivot head to line it up with the cylinder. There is shoulder on the pin that will jam the pivot if you aren't aware of it.
Thanks for the info and pictures. It has been so hot that I have not had a chance to tackle this project. The tractor runs and steers, but the power steering is hard in one direction. Thanks again, John
I have what I think is a ford 4500 back hoe. It's older than dirt and wore out, but runs great. I recently have started losing gears. I've lost all but 4th. I can still get it into 2nd, but as soon as I put it in forward or reverse it grinds and kicks out of gear. I can't even find 1st or 3rd. Any help would be appreciated. The beast isn't worth a plug nickel, but it's invaluable to me. Thanks.
Jigger Above your battery on the inside of the hood there may be a name plate with tractor, transmission, rear end and engine numbers on it. Ford serial #'s for the 2000 thru 9000 series 3 cylinders according to yesterday tractor antique tractor guide are as follows 65.............C100000 66.............C124200 67.............C161300 68.............C190200 69.............C226000 70.............C257600 71.............C292100 72.............C327200 73.............C367300 74.............C405200 75.............C450700 If it was me and I was unable to shift, the first thing I would do was pop the top off the transmission carefully and check to see if I had all my shifter forks in the right place. If you don't have the service manual on it you can get one on EBAY for under 10 dollars on a CD. The one I got wasn't perfect but it has quite a bit of information about the variuos transmissions used in that series. Here are severeal pages out of the 4 speed trany section Forks can be fabricated and or fixed if they are worn thru and I'll bet you can still get various parts from Ford/New Holland if you can't find them at the salvage yards. Try asking on Tractor House parts search. A number of New Holland dealers have excellant parts diagrams on their web sites if you can figure out what your tractor is so you can look it up. Try reading up on Yesterday Tractor web site. There are a number of Ford mechanics there willing to help. I am sure that others out there have been deep into thier transmissions and can help you more than I. As luck would have it my old gal still shifts into all gears. It's the planitaries that I'm worried about on mine. Guy who had it before me ran it with low oil in the rearend and it's noisy. Ouch! If your old gal begins to loose it's value to you and you are close enough geographically perhaps I could talk you into selling it to me CHEAP. John
I have a '72 Ford 4500 with a leaking steering cylinder. Any info on removing the cylinder would be appreciated. Thanx
From what I can see on mine, it appears you need to remove the radiator and front cowl. The cowl is heavy but can be lifted easily with an engine hoist.
Leaking Steering Cylinder Thanks for the reply. I already have the hood, radiator, and hydraulic pump off. I'm having a problem getting the steering linkage off so I can get the cylinder out.
I have a 550 that the power steering hoses are leaking, but upon closer inspection they are rubbing on the tie bar. I don't think the bar is bent. Anyone had this problem? Could it be because the bushings are worn and there is too much play? I just bought this machine and want to fix it right. Any thoughts?
I have mine torn apart right now, waiting for a taper pin to be machined, but from memory the two power steering hoses run acroos the front of the tractor, over the hydraulic pump to the right side, (looking from the front). Then both run up the right side of the radiator, and back down behind it to the power steering pump. It sounds like yours might have been re-routed if they're wearing on the tie rod. I should have mine back together by next weekend and could send a picture if you're still having problems. 10-7@8400
Mitch504----I have a ford 4500 backhoe and is having problems with the steering also.. how hard is it to remove what i have to remove in order to get to the steering cylinder? I think i need to wield the ram (what comes out of the cylinder) and what is still bolted to the front of the backhoe... sorry if i am confusing you here.. please let me know.. thanks
or anyone with info can contact me.. thanks
Rforce1024 you have to remove the cowl above the radiator, the radiator, and hydraulic pump to get to it. It's a pain in the neck because the cowl is so heavy, (I used a couple of 4" x 4" steel tubes for uprights strapped to the tractor, with a crossbar on top, and a come-along to lift it off, and set it in front of the loader bucket). The cowl also contains the hydralic reservoir which you have to drain, as well as drain the radiator and remove it. The pump comes out pretty easily, but I had to grind a flat on the taper pin that connects the steering pump to the linkage, and use a 24" crescent wrench with a 4' breaker bar to get it out, then have a new one machined. All that being said, it went together a lot easier, and works fine with no leaks now.
ok thanks.. I really hate having to do this.... but for awhile yesterday i was trying to see how and what i could do to get the cylinder out... the tractor still turns and all but the steering cylinder wants to move all over and what is happening, it is crushing the hose on the side of the compartment.. this was my 2nd line.. and parts dont come cheap... why cant this be summer and things be alot easier lol
does anyone know where i can get a new or used power steering cylinder for my 4500 backhoe? As i looked at it today, something is deff. not right and my neighbor looked at it too and saw that the shaft is broke.. (the piece where the anchor bolt goes through the eye and holds the cylinder in place) i am hoping i can cold wield it with a wielder if possible.. any info will help.. btw i looked the cylinder up on New holland's website and their number for the cylinder is 03D03? And i have a complete manual for my backhoe but doesnt tell you much...
4500 steering problems As far as the piston rod end being broken off, I had mine welded back on and then had the shop clean up the weld on the lathe so I could maintain the piston travel. Take it to a shop that specializes in hydraulic cylinder repair. It will be worth the extra time to get it done right. New parts are WAY to expensive. They come out of the Ford/New Holland parts museum inventory somewhere in tractor heaven and are priced accordingly. Aftermarket parts are cheaper but the quality varies widely. When you reinstall the cylinder make sure to shim the rod end up properly on the connector pin where it attaches to the front casting or it will bind on the pin and break off the piston rod end again. The pin which attaches the cylinder to the steering arm is a tapered fit and required heat and a hydraulic jack to get it to pop loose. My previous post describes the difficulty I had getting the pin out of the front casting. The main steering arm pivot pin is locked in with a big bolt. After you get the keeper bolt out there is a threaded hole in the top of the pivot pin where you can thread in a puller bolt to lift the pin vertically out of the hole. There is a reason you don't see power assist hydraulic steering cylinders like this anymore. They don't work so good when there is wear in the linkage and require everything to be tight and new to work as designed. In addition the repair manual covers adjustment of the Ford 4000 power steering system which has built in travel adjustment but only peripherally covers adjustment of the 4500 system. This is because the 4500 system has no travel adjustment between the steering arm and yoke. It was not designed to survive this long. After all the fixing I did on my 4500 steering system it worked OK but it would pull to the left and when the front wheels came off the ground, it would start hammering - fluttering. I was afraid the hammering would break off the end of the steering cylinder rod again which would have put me back to square one again. After much cogitation, I finally decided that the hammering was caused by excessive wear in the pin and socket connection between the main steering arm and the actuator yoke, which attached to the cylinder. The way this steering system works, is that you have the yoke attached to the main steering arm by a pivot pin. The yoke is held in place on the steering arm by a cotter pin through the pivot pin. There is a socket hole in the yoke a couple of inches away from the pivot pin in which travels a pin which sticks up from underneath from the steering arm. As the yoke is pulled on by the pitman rod, it wants to turn on the pivot pin on the steering arm. It turns a little, but the pin and socket connection only lets it move a small amount. Since the back of the cylinder is attached to the steering arm and the yoke is attached to the valve, it is the small rotation of the yoke in relation the steering arm that moves the valve back and forth. When everything is new and tight, a little movement from the steering wheel moves the yoke in relation to the steering arm and causes the steering valve to try to “catch up” to the yoke. Sadly the maximum travel for the valve in and out is less than 1/8th either way. If the hole and socket becomes excessively worn the valve gets moved to far one way or the other and it starts to malfunction. Hard as it may be to believe, I was able to remove the power-steering pump and drive shaft and then the cylinder yoke without tearing everything back apart. Since I had already reinstalled the radiator and shroud/hydraulic tank, I was not about to take it all back apart without looking for another solution. The air cleaner was still off at this point so I had that much room to work with. In order to work on the yoke I had to get it off the tractor once again. This required removing the tie rod back to the steering box. However, I had to use oxyacetylene to heat the casting around the pitman ball joint to get it to pop out. It took a lot of twisting and turning of the parts but I eventually was able to get the yoke back off without tearing everything back apart to check out the hammering problem. It all finally came apart and I was able to remove the parts from below behind the axle or from in front without pulling the radiator. After measuring the hole in the yoke and pin in the steering arm in both directions I found it was out of round about an 1/8th. I then looked at how much travel the cylinder valve actually allowed and it was equal to or less than the play in the hole. Since there was more travel in the linkage than the valve would allow, it was bottoming the valve and making it hammer. My Solution: I drilled and tapped a hole in the yoke at the side of the socket hole where it met the pin in the steering arm for a 5/16 allen head bolt. I also made a steel bushing out of a soup can to shim the pivot pin-hole connection where the yoke rotates on the steering arm. By using the tip of the allen bolt as the point of contact I was able to effectively eliminate the wear in the pin and socket and therefore eliminate the hammering. It still pulls to the left a little but I was able to adjust most of that out with the turnbuckle on the cylinder. The left pulling problem is an internal leak in the valve, which will just have to wait for another day to be fixed.
i am going to try to post 2 pics of the pin that i need to remove if i can in order to remove the power steering cylinder
View attachment 87632 View attachment 87633 i am going to try to post 2 pics of the pin that i need to remove if i can in order to remove the power steering cylinder.. anyone have a solution? thanks
to remove that pin/bolt You must get under the front end to make these repairs. I believe the bolt is supposed to have a tapered fit into the main steering arm casting. I believe it pivots on a bushing in the cylinder casting. I jacked up the front end of the tractor and supported it on jack stands Then I swung the arm around so I could get a jack under where the tapered bolt sticks out the bottom of the steering arm. Pull the cotter key and take the nut off. Once the nut is loose on the bolt, thread it back on with the castle up to protect the threads and the castle. Block up a jack under the nut and raise up on it to try and force the bolt out of the taper. Be careful you don't lift the tractor off the jack stands. Once you have upward force applied to the bolt, heat the casting around the joint with a gas ax until it pops loose. I separated all my steering connections which were mated with a taper the same way. You won't damage the heat treatment of the forging if you don't get it hot enough for it to start to turn red. If I remember right the paint was just starting to smoke when the joint came loose. You still may need to rap it some with a hammer but be very careful not ding the threads or you will be cursing yourself for the transgression. From my limited experience, patience, thoughtfulness and restraint have caused far fewer blunders than the alternative. Sometimes it's better to walk away for a while than to get mad at an inanimate object and do something which just makes the repair more expensive in the end. Good luck and remember under the right circumstances heat and gravity can be your friend. John
thanks john, I ended up get the pin out, kinda easy once you figure how to do it.....did what you said about getting a jack under the bolt..jacked the jack up snug to bolt then hit the steering cylinder next to bolt, one good hit.. came right up.. the cylinder is at the shop getting the eye piece wielded to the shaft.. will have it back tomorrow.. then the fun part, putting everything back together... thanks again..
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who helped me.... I got my backhoe up and running today.. so far so good... will probably run it some more tomorrow... again thanks
Old house hugger are you saying that there should be no play at all between the steering arm and the the yoke . I have replaced all pind and bushings and rebuild the cylinder but still hard steering . I do see when i turn the wheel the upper arm that attaches to the cylinder actuator and the lower arm that connects to the cylinder does have some play in it . Not were the pin and cotter key is but were the the center pin is. ???? Any help would be great
I have a ford 4500 loader had major problems with steering tried the adjustment didnt work renewed pins and bushes no good tried different oil renewed all seals still not working sometimes worked one way and not the other investigated different types steering too expensive In the end studied the parts manual and found a pin 1/2 to 3/4 in dia which i think is a get you home or manual steering pin pulled it out and it now works good do get oil leaks I think the steering arms change shape over the years old age and cant cope with fine adjustments
and were was this pin you pulled at
unamed pin if you go to www.mcinto*****son.com.au go to parts. new holland model 4500 4500 3 cyl industrial tractor front axel and steering front axel steering and related parts look for no 29 29 is spacer follow line down thru spacer and you will see a pin its about 2ins long dia maybe 3/4 it has no number its under the numbers 55 i am pretty sure thats the one i will check tomorrow when i go to the farm . I got it out using a drift and a hammer i think i put bucket down and got the front wheels off the ground so i could move the front axel you may have a ford parts book it will probally be the same
This might make things a little easier
Hi, I just finished fixing the same problem on my 1966 Ford 4500. You will need to replace all the bushings and pins in the power steering assembly and it will steer with ease once again. Live to Learn
is the anchor pin tapered?
Yes,if you are talking about the 37.5mm dia. pin. The taper is something like 2 mm from top to bottom. I will try to look up the exact new size and required bushings.
If you are talking about pin number 31 in the above drawing, then no that pin is not tapered and uses identical bushings numbered 52.
I'm having a similar steering problem with a 68 ford 2wd 4500 series tractor.There has been no assist or very low steering assist for some time and very sloppy steering linkage.i have the nose off and the steering assist cylinder and valve unit out for repair as I believe the cylinder is defective. I am trying to remove the centre pin which has 3/8 fine threads in it and a circlip which I have removed.i have heated the yoke in which it goes through and tried to pull it up but will only move 3/8 of an inch,is there a clip on the bottom as well,or what method could I use to remove other than cutting it out,thanks for your help roger
Roger, no clip on the bottom. The arm is secured down via the cotter pin only. I used plenty of liq. wrench, two pry bars under the arms and then tapped the center pin with a hammer. When you re-assemble with all new bushings and maybe new pins also, the system must be tight, no wiggle anywhere. Good luck. Ron
Roger the big center pivot pin has a 1 inch bolt that acts like a cotter key thru the side the center pivot. Once you get that out, chase the threads in the center hole of the pin and insert a piece of threaded rod long enough to extend up above the frame of the tractor. Then lay a piece of stout material across the frame with a hole drilled in the center to put the rod thru. Tightening a nut down on the crossbar will pull the pin straight up pretty as pie. I finally got the steering to work by replacing all the worn bushings and pins and installing a set screw to reduce the travel between parts 13 and 14. There is a pin in 14 which inserts into an oversize hole in 13 which gets worn. By threading the setscrew into the side of the hole and reducing the travel of one relative to the other I was able to eliminate excessive play in that joint. There is a reason they don’t make them this way any more. Also there is a grease fitting which feeds the bottom of the big pin joint which can only be gotten to from under the tractor. Make sure to clean that hole out before reassembling the pin into the hole. It is the only way grease can be gotten to the underside of the joint and one of the many reasons these old things fail. Also the big pivot pin I got from A&I did not have the machined notch in it which was required to put the keeper bolt back through. It was also very soft compared to the original one. I was able to mark the A&I pin with a file. I sent it back and procured an OEM exact replacement part out of old stock from a retired dealer in Kansas by shear luck. The attached picture shows the bolt thru the center pivot
Oldhousehugger, It sounds like I have the same problem you had. I replaced quite a few parts including the center pin and bushings. I still have play between 13 and 14, which is giving me poor steering assist power. If I watch the linkage while someone else steers, you can tell that 13 just wobbles on the pin before it can fully engage the steering cylinder valve. Apparently there is no bushing on that pin. I was thinking about making some kind of bushing, but your idea of a set screw sounds easier. So a set screw worked good for you? About what size did you use? I guess you would tighten in up just enough to take out play, but not bind. Thanks
As I remember it was a 5/16 grade 8 allen head with a lock nut. Be careful that it does not interfere with the drive shaft. I tried lapping out the inside hole in the pitman arm so I could insert a bushing but that was way to hard. Then I figured that the slop in the larger pin was acting like a limit switch just like the pin in the smaller socket. By reducing the travel of the pin in the socket you compensate a little for the wear in the larger main pivot. If you do the math it works. Also if you look at the ag version of this machine, that setup has a stop adjustment both ways. Why the heck didn't they do that here? This machine is just a beefed up agricultural tractor front end. The engine and drive line are the same. Managers got tired of waiting probably!!!! Also the adjustment is maddeningly finicky at the turnbuckle on the cylinder. Just keep fine tuning it. I finally got mine to work after several irritating trys.
1975 4500 ford industrial I have a 75 ford 4500 industrial tractor, it has a fluid leak in the steering cylinder, i have taken it off the tractor and tried to get it apart to rebuild but could not get it apart, I have searched and searched the web and companies to find the one i need but can not find it, can anyone point me in the right direction to where i might be able to find what i need. thanks in advance.
Thanks,got it out today with some heat on lower spindle #14 and a slide hammer on pin bolt up tension and air hammer down through access hole,need to know whether practical to have #13 bushing to size to accept #14 pin to remove the slop in steering,also someone mentioned set screws? On what component? As these all have to pivot do they not?also trying to see if I can get the power cylinder and valve assembly rebuilt and eye ends resized as they are worn oblong too.Finally, what is the rod adjustment procedure? Thanks for the info Roger
Perhaps this will will help with disassembly of the steering cylinder
Ford 4500 tractor power assist All reassembled had the pins resized to bushings but now trying to adjust power steering asi have no assist also have lots of play 50 degrees in gearbox,do I need to adjust this first before I get power assist,thank you,roger
Ford 4500 tractor power steering no assist :bashHave had links pins and bushings sized including cylinder ends rebus he'd to take out slop in linkage,now have about 50 degrees movement on steering wheel with play in the steering box and still. No assist,have tried to move adjuster rod on cylinder in a turn,still no assist,any ideas old house hugger or live to learn? Thanks roger
Ford tractor 4500 series Got everything rebus he'd tight at front end but still about 50 degrees of steering wheel travel at steering box before tie bar moves fore and aft to front linkage? Still no power assist,where should the turnbuckle be? Does the fluid need to bleed insome sequence,please advise to get steering ease THANKS ROGER
Your 50 degrees of play in the steering gear is not good, but shouldn't actually keep you from having power assist, unless it is so bad that it is binding. You very likely have a hydraulic problem, not a linkage problem. If you take the linkage to the turnbuckle loose, restart the tractor, then move the valve spool in the base of the cylinder in or out, the wheels should turn. Be careful to keep your hands away from the pump driveshaft and the parts of the linkage that will move, because if the hydraulics are ok, all that will move very quickly, and you want to keep all your fingers. I used to work on lots of these at the Ford store and afterwards, but my memories are getting fuzzy. Do you have the pump w/ the integral reservoir, or the pump that that draws from the main hydraulic tank? I think a '68 draws from the main tank. I know that some of the most common problems are the relief valve on the back of the pump, the small suction strainer in the tank, and a poppet valve in the cylinder. I would start the diagnosis by taking the pressure line off the pump and idling the engine. You should get a good flow. If not, take the suction line off the pump and see if you get plenty of oil. If you get good flow from the pump, deadend the line from the pump into a 3-5000 psi guage. These things don't run a lot of pressure, just 12-1300 lbs, if I remember right. Good luck, Mitch
Thanks Thanks Mitch loosened off turnbuckle at steering linkage end and let valve seat on end of travel and steering spun fast to one side as you said.tried to position valve in centre when steering wheel on centre but no assist,pump putting out pressure fine had some air in it bleed and adjusted .025 of an inch each time still no assist,must have a valve issue or can I see the adjustment procedure from manual,thks roger
Mitch thanks Looking for available turnbuckle adjustment procedure if you could forward please [email protected] thank you still trying to get power assist on this tractor,thank. You rogermarineguy
I emailed it to you, it's only 2 or 3 lines in the service manual and a picture.
Tractor4500fordsteering Thanks Mitch for the steering turnbuckle adjustment procedure,I am able to adjust the turnbuckle without removing the radiator(again) by prying up on both lower corners,however I've noticed that no matter how much adjusting I have done is causing the steering to Whip to the right fiercely to lock. I have also tried today disconnecting one end of turnbuckle and prying out on the valve which results in the same whip to right,when the valve is all the way in nothing happens as far as assist is concerned ,do I have a bad valve,you mentioned a poppet valve or is it a spool valve or do I have a bad cylinder? What about the shims for the steering anchor pin I have one on the top and one on the bottom to align cylinder rod?please advise driving me off the deep end,roger
Removed pressure line at cylinder valve at front ,not a lot of pressure or flow actually full off air bubbles into a container,removed suction valve and spring looks like the spring was stretched at some point to gain more pressure ??? Ordered a new spring to try before condemning the pump,pump may be worn internally sucking air? What are your thoughts,thanks roger
Ordered and installed compression spring in feed side of pump,removed return line at power cylinder into bucket,lots of air bubbles,replace line and fill with funnel at top connection,fill hydraulic tank,start engine and steering turns hard to right stop.readjust turn buckle and turns easy to left stop.valve on cylinder feels like binding in bore ,remove valve assembly with turnbuckle attached,inspect valve and clean with emery cloth and replace prongs and reinstall.also loosen up turnbuckle screws and straighten rod as it appears bent.adjusted turnbuckle and steering doesn't spin all by itself to either side but still feels like manual steering which I had originally,Not sure what I have a problem with now,A PUMP PROBLEM??
Items I rebuilt or replaced to get my old 4500 iron pile steering to work. From the steering cylinder exploded schematic items: 2 (bushing), 4a(had eye welded back into ram), 44(taper pin) and all the o-rings. Completely disassembled, cleaned and rebuilt with new o-rings. From the front axle and steering schematic: 13 (actuator, tapped set screw into side to reduce travel of captive pin from 14 below), 14 (main steering pivot, smallest of two pins loosely engages a socket in the bottom of actuator (13). The loose fit is supposed to allow a certain amount of play to let the cylinder valve self center. The valve in the cylinder can only move in or out maybe 1/16 of an inch either way so any more is damaging it. That is why getting most of the slop out of the system is a good idea.) 31 (main pivot pin, original had .03 wear toward the top) 52 ( top and bottom bushings at the main pivot pin) I replaced the king pins and bushings in the axle ends and spindles along with wheel bearings and seals. I had to turn the wheel hubs to a larger ID to receive the new style grease seals I bought. I brazed shut several holes rubbed in the hydraulic lines running from the steering pump to the cylinder and rerouted the new rubber supply hoses . I used a modern o-ring type fitting at the supply port of the cylinder because I could not find a locally available antique English type fitting which had been leaking. This required grinding clearance for the new fitting into the cast iron casting of the front end. I had a heck of a time getting the pin which connects the ram to the front casting out but reused the pin after retapping the threads and using a set screw to keep it tight. The steering box attached to the steering wheel was a disaster. Water had accumulated in the bottom of the steering box and corroded the ball bearings and race which is machined into the bottom end of the steering shaft. I purchased an aftermarket shaft made in Turkey supplied by a tractor parts dealer in east Texas. I was worried it would be to soft but for what little I am expecting of the machine these days it will do. Somewhere on this site I have pictures of rebuilding the steering box. I tore the steering pump apart and used 120 grit sandpaper glued to a surface plate to take the wear out of the rear end of the pump by hand lapping it. I rebuilt it with new o-rings from a local supplier. It worked great after that. The radiator cooling fins were completely blocked by old oil and dirt as well as there being water leaks around the oil cooler fittings at the bottom of the radiator. I used oven cleaner and high pressure water to get most of the dirt out of the fins and took it to a local radiator shop to get the leaks fixed. The steel frame soldered to the radiator had broken loose and was resoldered. This was just the steering system. The rest of the machine is a whole other story. If this were easy everybody would be doing it. I'm working on the steering clutches out of my Komatsu D20 this week.
Wow! Oldhousehugger,thanks for the response it looks like you've done a pile of work also.getting the play/wear out of this system as Mitch has noted as well is a bit of a challenge I'd say.i like your idea of lapping out the end plates in the pump as I've priced out a pump and its anywhere from 550-900 Canadian dollars to order and deliver.i have lots of volume but not much pressure and lots of air in the hydraulic pump so I think I may be on the right course ,will let you know thanks again roger,much appreciated and Mitch's help also.
You need to determine how the air is getting into the system and eliminate that part of the problem. It could be from having the system opened. But I would suspect a leak in a suction line,or the pump itself. It was previously posted that the steel lines do get holes rubbed into them. I have found it only takes a pinhole to cause air to enter the system.
My pump had a bad seal at the driveshaft of the pump and I replaced the seals (maybe it was a double seal) as well as all the o-rings and it works. Be careful with the relief valve settings I think they are adjusted with shims. I found great parts diagrams through Messicks in Pa. They are good to work with if the parts are still available they will work with Ford to get them for you. A&I is also a source but their quality has been spotty. I found several hard to find parts by placing parts requests on Tractorhouse.com. I got the center pivot pin (New old stock) from a retired Ford dealer in Iowa at their original 1965 cost. They called me. They were glad to get rid of it. What Tinkerer said about pinhole leaks is very important to check. Figure a way to pressurize each tube and hose and see what comes out. Murphy always puts leaks where you can't see them.
I also had to replace the main hydraulic pump on the tractor not because it was so badly worn but it was sucking air too. The seal kit from the supplier was something like $350 bucks and a new pump not a whole lot more. I hated to do it but I went with new because the seals were so high.
Thanks for the suction lines and side of pump,I configured a pressure tester and looked could not find leaks and the pressure held,removed pump and inspected front seal definitely leaking and put grooves in shaft which I think I can get out I am looking up other seals required to reassemble,checked the clearance between gear and wall have .004 is that too much? Also the bearing assembly(where the shaft goes through,looks like brass knuckles for two fingers)has some play but are not available separately,is that an issue,do you think I can just clean up with some 200 sandpaper and reveal and try it,thanks Roger
On working on the pump body, I would lap the end plates if you can to try and get out any gear swirls if possible and also the pump body barrel which is what gives the gears their clearance. I believe I rubbed mine down to about .002 clearance thicker that the width of the gears and crossed my fingers because the bushings were worn in my pump as well. When you are lapping keep rotating the part every few strokes so it doesn’t wear down on one side more than the others. Remember the gears are designed to butt at exactly 90 degrees into the ends so if you rub one side of the body down more than the other you could theoretically have the ends catawampus to the gear bore so be careful. Measure twice cut once. You can’t do anything about wear on the gears themselves unless you have some very fancy rotary grinding setup to get both gears exactly the same width. When you think about it though the input shaft drives the idler gear so there shouldn't be any weird torques going on. When it makes pressure the driving gear teeth push on the driven gear teeth to seal between high and low side. The pressurized oil is trying to squeeze back around the outside of the pump bore and past the ends of the gears. Anyhow the closer you can get the gears to fit to the end plates and the less clearance there is between the outside diameters of the gears and the pump body the better it will pump until something rubs. I'll bet if you were real careful you could lap the pump body down to where the gears were just barely missing the end plates. As far as the input shaft having the seals wearing groves in it, my bearing dealer miked the old one and sold me the next size undersize from the original ID. That gave the lips on the seals (I remember there being 2 back to back) something to seal against. There is oil lubrication on both sides of the seal so it would theoretically never run dry. Finally replace all your o-rings. I found a distributor here in Dallas called H&D ( http://www.hddistributors.com ) which sells all the local hydraulic repair shops their o-rings and seals. I took all my old o-rings down there and they measured everything and were able to supply me everything I needed to rebuild the pump. They have a minimum charge for any order but sometimes having the correct 82 cent o-ring is well worth the 20 bucks of a minimum if that’s all you need to get going again. I think I mentioned before that Messicks up in Pa. ( http://www.messicks.com/NHC/85073.aspx ) has a great website for getting parts drawings of the 4500. Some of the parts are off the AG version and some unique to the backhoe/utility version. They show to have several of the front and rear o-rings as well as the OEM seal. If it were me I’d explore alternative sources before going with the dealer. Ford / New Holland has had to store those parts for 30 or 40 years and they are proud of their space and parts museums. Ha Ha. Who can blame them. Try getting OEM Dealer parts for a 40-year-old Ford car. Not going to happen.
Took it out by turning wheel hard right. The rear bolt can be got to from the bottom with some wiggling. After pulling the grill you can reach in and remove the lines. On the front right corner of the nose casting is a sheet metal locking tab that needs tone bent down away from nut. Take nut off and there will be flats on the stud. Take stud out. You need to remove either pin from the turnbuckle actuator. Colapse the cylinder and lift front and pull it out.