My truck has some rust jacking between the frame rails, and particularly behind the big crossmember assembly about the drives. Overall the truck has very almost no rust, and there isn't any cracking yet. Short of seperating the frame rails or other major dissasembly, are there any ways to slow or stop the rust? I have thought of trying to shoot fluid film or transmission fluid in between the rails as best I can. I have seem some talk of "rust dissolvers" and such, but that stuff seems a bit doubtfull.
I am guessing you can't get in there with a grinder? Never used this stuff but quick Google search turned this up https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-32-oz-Rust-Dissolver-Spray-Gel-300112/301059233
No cure for that disease if the rails are pushing apart, except for disassembling it. Saved a nice KW T800 by doing that in 2018. In Juneau of all places. Never again. The juice wasn’t worth the squeeze. The ocean has no mercy on trucks.
It will get even uglier if inner rails are removed then scaled and pockets are revealed that are deep. Then it becomes what should I do, I can't leave it that way and down the spiraling rabbit hole you go with new rail, bolts, airline & fittings plus more.
I looked into replacing the rear 14 feet of an otherwise nice truck. The frame shop 100 miles away wouldn't give a price without seeing it. What they want is I cut the frame, haul it to them. They will fabricate exactly what I had. They wild guess said "about $2500. I have no good estimate of cost to install. I live in the worst place in the world for road salt. Mine was a Chevy C65. I'm not a fan of layered frames.
Adams.
About the only thing you could do is spray something in there that will creep. Old motor oil mixed 50/50 with transmission fluid works great. Then keep ahead of it!
How about some pictures of it, so we have some idea of how bad it is. I've seen some flaking between rails that wouldn't worry me too much, and I've seen splitting and pushed apart rails that I would replace. There's shops that specialize in replacing rails, the rails themselves aren't too expensive, it's the labor getting them in and out.
Average price at this time for formed Grade 10 10 3/4" outside 3/8" thick with 3 1/4" lip 14' long undrilled will run minimum $2,500, plus two inside 5/16" thick $2,300, new flange bolts & nut's figure $225. Time minimum 50 some plus hours non stop. What's the truck value as it sets? And those are undrilled rails. So figure in X amount of drills/reamers, paint. PG Adams can sell drilled complete rail. But finding a company that form 28' is tough. HW Metals in Tualatin/Portland Ore can form up to 60' long with tandem press breaks and 1/2" plus thick. If a person was serious about saving/keeping a truck then single rails 1/2" thick is the way to go.
Can you still buy glider kits. Haven't heard anyone talk about them in forever
Nope, that was stopped 7 plus years ago, because people trying to beat EPA regs.
I could imagine it costing $10,000, I wasn't convinced the truck warranted that expense. I replaced it with a fire truck, it made for a more functional truck. I got myself bogged down with rivet removal. I removed 28 rivets in an 8 hour day, had twice that many left to do. Farmed the frame work out. Newer truck is single layer, but wherever steel was sandwiched & bolted together, it got a coating of rustproof grease.
The top plate just sits there for the body to ride on.
That's kind of the million dollar question, I guess. Strictly speaking, on paper at least, the truck is probably not worth re framing. I guess here would be the issues: Pros; The truck is in overall very good running condition. Cat 3406b, 8LL. Truck has about 450,000 miles on it The cab is solid, and what isn't solid is very fixable. Planning on dealing with those issues this winter. We completly rebuilt the lift axle last year, rebuilding the frame and all due to rust and other issues. We turned the tailgate into a barn door a couple years ago. Lots of miscellaneous work; all rubber hoses and such, fuel lines, radiator, fan clutch. Basically I haven't been running the truck down. I only run about 5,000 miles a year, most of what I need the truck to do is move my excavator around. A new quad @265k just isn't going to happen. There is no cracking anywhere on the frame at this time that I have found. Cons; It is a 1992 Ford L9000. The engine runs great, but its 34 years old and only a matter of time before rubber dries out to where it is going to have to get overhauled. It's a tri axle, which in WI limits me to 64,000. Quads run at 73,000. The body is ok, but is nothing to write home about, and isn't really big enough to justify turning the truck into a quad. I figure re framing it would cost 10-15k and would take up most of a winter. That's doing it myself, sending it out would probably double that. So does it add up? I have maybe 25k into the truck where it sits now, and I have gotten five years out of it. Maybe over the course of the next five years if I re framed it and rebuilt the engine I might put another 40K plus into it. I could go out and spend 40-60K on another old truck, and probably put another 20 into whatever that turns out to be. What makes me tempted to stick with this one is that I have it, and at this point I generally know what I have at least. Of course, at the end of the best day it's still a 92 L9000. All that to say that why I am maybe hoping to get enough oil or something in between the rails to slow down the rust to get another 5 or 6 years out of it, maybe then I will have different options.
What would it cost you to replace it. The whole truck
Not as bad as some I've seen--when cracks appear, will be horizontal right around mounting bolt holes like torque arm brackets and main suspension mounts.
I don't think that looks too bad. The age of the truck, I would run it and not worry about it. It would be different if you were running all day everyday commercial dump trucking. But with those few miles for your use, I think you have quite a few years left.
Yeah. That’s not so bad. You had us scared. Keep on trucking. You got other things to worry about.
To be effective to keep that wet with oil is going to make a hot mess on your shop floor and any where you park it. Fluid film isn't going to neutralize the rust but it may keep it from rusting more or slow it down by it not getting oxygen( I am reaching here.) I have plow/salt combos (99-02 f350's) that have been in the **** since 2012, one of them was a plow truck before I got it. I personally would get overly worked up at what is showing on your truck. Now if things were cracking and brittle that would raise a eyebrow. I would fluid film it, keep it coated and keep on trucking
A highway department I was associated with had a couple trucks with double rail frames that they sent out to be reframed. These were 6 wheel 35K GVW, cost was $25,000 per truck. New truck set up for plowing is $250,000 so it made sense to them. neither truck had 40,000 miles on it, they anticipate another 10 years service from them.
Your truck needs a good pressure washing, a cut off disc on a hand held grinder, then oil bath of something penetrating. I'd choose New Hampshire brand. It'll be ten years before the frame starts to fold.
NH oil creeps like crazy and doesn't drip.
Fastest I've changed a single rail by myself was 16 hours, which included drilling oem blank rail. That was in 2003 on a 2001 379 I bought with a bad right rail, involved in accident where one of the steel coils it was hauling broke loose and crushed back of sleeper. OEM rail from Pete was $3,400 at that time from Pete for a single rail 28' long not tapered at after frame and not trimmed/cutout on top lip for engine bay. Just doing a stretch job is intensive, like below. *
From 230 WB to 300. *
Speaking of rust, same truck, different place; the floor pan in the cab is soft around the throttle pedal and doghouse area. I have everything torn out of the interior, and one way or another it is going to get rebuilt. I can't find any source for pre made sheet metal parts for Ford L series trucks. Before we start fabricating does anybody know if any sort of weld in panels are available? You can get sheet metal for pickups all day long, but I don't think anything is going to cross from the F series cab to the L series.
Self tapping screws and old license plates has always been the farmers choice for floor pan repair.
Sigh. Farmers . . .
Well okay- If you want to get fancy, you can smear caulking all over under the plate before you screw them down. Because duct tape won't usually stick to the rust
If we are rolling like that I might as well just go full Mexico, skip the license plates and just get new floormats and a chrome skull shift knob. And long pointy lug nut covers . . .
I saw a Pete a while back with a laminate wood floor. But seriously, aside from finding a 30 year old rust free cab to steal floor repair pieces from, your going to be stuck fabbing your own. Cut squares and rectangles and weld the seams, or a good man with a pan or finger brake.
That's pretty much what I am expecting, just thought maybe somebody knows about something out there . . .
This is the signs that they used for flashing on my roof but if you don't have enough licenses plates handy you could use sheet metal like you have one the plenum of your furnace, find a wholesale place rather than home Depot way cheaper. I have carpet in my cat and my mini, the stuff in my mini is $50/yard It was the cut off of the roll installed on a set of steps. It gets nasty I pull it out and use it as a template for the new piece. Felt back vinyl would be a good choice for the contours, LVP for your flat cab floors, laminate wouldn't be my first choice when water could be a factor, it will warp and delaminate
Trust me on this. If you have a hole in your floor, it can really come in handy. Drainage for ice and snow. If you drop something, you won’t even have to open the door to pick it up. If you get pulled over for open container, you can just pour it on the ground. You can see the ground, to know when you drive off pavement. If you have an exhaust leak, you can really hear it. When your needing to take a leak, just hold it down. The best, if you run out of gas, you can Fred Flinstone it back home. I grew up plowing with a 62 +or- Scout. Dad had rigged up a keg for a gas tank. You could get stupid drunk and plow and if you needed to puke, from seeing the ground rushing by, back and forth, you just leaned over and heaved. That thing was a piece of crap but it plowed better than the 9n, out in the cold and snow, had to replace the bungee cord holding the door closed once in a while and the manual wipers sucked.
This was for sale Zero Rust, set of sticks, 8V-71 with heavy front axle on walking beam. IIRC $2,000 no title. IIRC it only had 50,000 miles on it. *
My son would get so excited about all the lights and that big horn on the hood I wouldn't be able to part it . . .
I hear road signs work pretty good, too.
Guilty
My Dad also used road signs for trailer floors, skidding big rocks, well casing’s, they were really tough material,lol
Still might have a stop sign around or 2. ooops!
Yes, I went from a 3 HP cheap snow blower at age 9, I cleared the neighborhood. Built a wooden plow for a IH Farmall Cub at 12, thought I was in heaven! Age 16, I put a plow on a 1965 Jeep CJ5. Must have been about 27 when I put a Fisher plow on a 1976 Jeep Cherokee full sized. Used it until the frame was too rusty. I've had numerous tractors with rudimentary snow plows. Backhoe loader last 24 years.
Keep an eye out for cracks and carry on. It looks to me like that will go years before you have any trouble.
Our IHI 2574 is a lot worse & yet I still see plenty of thickness remaining in frame rails. Can sure see the advantages of a single heavy rail….
Decided against caulk, duct tape and stop signs . . .
You could form most all of that in sections with a small pan break. Good to see you decided to cut it out. Check your electrical and airlines for chaffing while opened up and any hoses too.
I've done several floors. Look to You tube for pick sticks. I did a whole lot the hard way until I tried this method.
Stop signs alcan be bent by hand, you will have a floor fast
I am not looking for a fast floor, I am looking for a permanent OE grade repair . . .
I have done a few floor rust repairs. I made cardboard templates of the pieces I needed and another with the angle they needed to be bent at then took them to a local sheet metal shop. It took the guy a few minutes to make them while I waited.
I am CAD (cardboard aided design) certified.
I'm surprised the floor support channels aren't all rotted out. Looks like a few flat pieces and you'll be good to go. The rear bottom edge of the cab is where I see a lot of rust on those fords.
Cheapest floor material, is Realtor signs, or used to be. Collect all you need, in just a couple of beers!
Nice job! I cheated on our rusted out floor (drivers side bad due to salt on drivers boots). Sliced out rust, laid in several layers of fiberglass cloth/matting. Then cut sheet of aluminum as top layer for strength. But I have a feeling ours won’t be able to pass inspection due to double frame jacking….so likely just off-road use. Not sure if my floor repair would pass inspection here….
I just paid 24 bucks to have my truck run through the Platinum car wash. Trying to get all that crap off. Wish there was a Georgia red clay road to drive down, up here. Best rust proofing stuff, ever made. Can’t even get it all on a lift, with a pressure washer!
What is/are PICK STICKS? Joe H
only works on flat surface, floors are a series of flat surfaces. Cut stiff paper, cardboard, poster board to roughly fit your floor. Whittle a thin slat to a straight line one side, it comes to a point, then a very irregular shape on the other. No need to record straight lines, only the points where it turns. Offer the stick to the point of angle, trace around it. Move to the next, repeat. When you have finished, transfer your pattern to flat steel, reverse engineer. You have a good line drawing of the flat piece you need. If you have a bend, repeat the process.
Have rust jacking on old blue here, Not even considering rails for my purposes. Should be rerailed Single Frame and be done. Cab Floor and Crossmembers were all good as cleaned out and repaired inside. Worst to very rear and under fifth wheel table.
I want to replace the cab on my 1985 GMC pickup but i have a bunch of stuff going on so i am going to make some patch panels for now. I am looking for another pickup but its a deal finding anything very good.
Hard to tell in the picture, looks like a pretty clean frame.
Considerable ‘Jacking’ shows as Gap ahead of slide table where what should be a demarcation gap at rear is almost solid with expanding flakes.
These show a bit better asI changed Torque Rods.
What did you coat it with?
Just a sealant coat of Rust Encapsulator. Got it when was painting Ford Frame.
Finally got to put some time in on this ...
You get that new mig?
May want to add a little in that rust channel next to seat base.
Looks better than stop signs
Will last past the rest of the life of that truck, nothing wrong there.
In the days I patched up rusty vehicles, I really preferred trucks. I remember a father & son farmers. 30 year old son $8000. (1975 dollars) had bought a new F350 to haul sawdust, still needed his father's signature. They had an older F350 with very low mileage. If I recall, my price to replace floorboards, rockers, and cab corners was about $700. After the father commited to me repairing, he added his instructions: No body putty. Weld new door bottoms, floors, cab corners, paint. "This truck hauls sawdust", (bedding for 50 cows 6 20 mile round trips a year") "I'm not interrested in a showpiece, just a legal truck." I patched it up, they used it ?10? more years. It served its purpose. By then the father died, the son gave up farming.
No, I used a friends little Mig welder for this.
Funny, I test drove a Miller ?200? in 1978, I fell in love with it, couldn't afford it. Over the years, several people I knew bought little off brand MIG welders. I tried a few, without success. I just welded sheet metal with oxy/acetylene. Must have been 2008 my son & I were replacing cab corners & rockers on a C65 Chevy, borrowed a Miller ?140? It was a great little machine for thinner steel? Eventually I bought a new Millermatic 252, then later upgraded to a MM255.
Still using my Miller 210, nice welder but does nit like less than .030 wire. When replaces panels on the Ford I should have gotten a lighter wire feed welder.
Harley ya want me to send some
I had a Lincoln 255 Mig I really liked but .023" wire forget it. I exchanged 3 rolls of wire but they all had the same problem. The wire on the rolls was interweaved and would jam up and not feed at the same rate. It was frustrating as hell trying to do a nice weld! I ended up not keeping the welder for too long. Not because I didn't like it but because I had to get out of a really bad business deal. The shop I bought the wire/welder from only had one brand of .023" wire. It was an off brand. I think name brand wire would be wound better with the best being layer wound. I'd pay more for layer wound if I could find it. Larger wire like .035" feeds much easier and doesn't birdsnest as easy.
Yeah, I find I could weld very thin steel with MM252 and .030 wire. I always had a birdnest problem with .023. I did buy a very short 100 amp rated gun to weld .023, but birdnest persisted. I haven't yet needed to weld with .023 since I've had this MM255. I usually just get lazy about changing everything, run whatever is on the spool. I most often use TIG on very thin sheet, softer weld, I can dolly it better to control distortion.
I have a HTP AUTO Mig I think its 140 amp I only run .023, on it and its works great . I have had it for a long time maybe 30 years . I have hauled it to work several times and the last time i had a deal and broke something on it . I am trying to get the part i hope I can . Its been a GREAT welder I cant say enough good about it.
Early 90's welding for irrigation/domestic well business, I used a White Face Miller 35, that machine would weld light gauge steel all day long with .030.
How the wire is wrapped on the spool is critical for .023" wire. You also want to use a smaller liner and inlet and outlet guides. The guides should be as close to the drive rolls as possible without touching them. A shorter gun can help too.
I used the adjustment proceedure in the manual repeatedly without success. I learned of a retired Miller authorized service man 20 miles away. He spent an hour checking the adjustments without improvements. Same machine, was a nightmare of birdnest with .045 dual shield. Finally resolved that problem.
I had been welding for several years and long story short I took some night welding classes . I learned a lot.
Sometimes you have to suspend the feeder and have the gun hanging down. Hard to do with an all in one machine. Same reason aluminum is major problem to feed with a standard gun. A short gun with the smallest liner is about all you can try.
What I haven't tried is the spool gun. Bought the spool gun 12 years ago. I then immediately bought the Miller Dynasty 280 DX. I fell in love with the TIG machine & haven't found a situation where I felt the spool gun might be better. I did consider spool gun for aluminum recently. We have a satelite firehouse, one bay has a low doorway and a low ceiling. The 1976 mini tanker is getting crusty. Bought a newer truck low enough, but off the shelf tanks are tall. There was discussion of building a tank, but the decision makers chose someone else to build it.
Tig on aluminum is better once you get the hang of it. Dynasty 280 DX is a great Tig welder!
The change to square wave was amazing for aluminum. Cathodic etching is how the surface oxide is removed for a clean, fused weld. Sine wave power loses ionization 120 times a second. Ionization of the gas must refresh to get the EP half cycle. A 60 HZ, sine wave machine is stuck at 50/50 balance, sending too much heat to melt the tungsten. Square wave is as effective in cathodic etching at 75% Electrode Negative, sending more of the heat to the pieces being welded, less to distort the tungsten. Welded a bunch of cracks on an aluminum dump body that had once hauled asphalt. Each had been welded with a spool gun. By cutting out the crack leaving something to fill I got full penetration repairs. It held up very well. I was amazed how effective the cathodic cleaning action was at 60% EN.
Cloverdale Paints. #71007 #83040
It's nice when you can adjust the AC balance for dirtier or different thicknesses of aluminum..