How do others business owners handle these people? Now don't get me wrong, there is always a certain amount of people honestly looking for work and are wanting a job, those I'm not talking about and have no issue with. Its those that have sucked off the unemployment scam their entire lives and know how the system works and work it their benefit and have for decades. They won't ask for work where any business has signs posted for help wanted, will always ask for work where they know won't hire them, have a part time job just long enough to still qualify for unemployment, or have a job every year at the same place, [seasonal work] and don't want a job the rest of the year. I've been told its just part of business and to not worry about it, of course those telling me this have never had to deal with them, had their time taken up by these types. I've also been told to just let them use my business name and keep the peace, that way they might no as likely to steal from me or vandalize anything if I've not upset them?? Well I never started a business to enable bums to not work, how do other business owners deal with these types?
I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking what to do about your past employees who are working the system or are you asking for opinions in general?
I think he's complaining about the people wasting his time "applying" for work, knowing there's no way Randy is going to hire them, in order to fill their quota for job searching. Is the dilemma that you want to accept serious applications, but not waste your time with people who don't want a job? or even letting them use your info to work the system? Can't you just say you're not accepting applications at this time?
No they are not former employee's, I've never applied for unemployment myself so all I know is what I've been told, but my understanding is, those getting unemployment and welfare have to apply for three jobs a week after so many weeks on unemployment to remain getting their unemployment and or welfare to prove they are looking for a job, so to speak. Anyone earnestly looking will apply for a job at places that are actively hiring, or where they'd like to work in case in the near future the business might be hiring so their application is on file. The one's that tick me off are those that have no intentions of working and only stop by to ask if I'm hiring so they have my business name so they can keep getting unemployment/welfare. Most are local and everyone knows who they are, so about four times a year, usually when we are busiest they stop by to ask if I'm hiring, if I say yes, they immediately turn around and leave and don't say a word, but then word gets out I'm hiring and dozens show up to apply who are earnestly looking, even though I'm not hiring, if I say no, then every bum shows up within a week to ask and be told no we are not hiring. We've hung up sign's to say we are not hiring, then they ask in public and claim we didn't visit our office so they didn't know we were not hiring and they have dozens of ways to ask to be told no we are not hiring. This didn't use to bother me, but at four or more times a year telling the same idiot no, over nearly 30 years, it gets on your nerves after a while, multiply that by a couple dozen doing it and its boarder line harassment in my opinion, not to mention other than a few seasonal jobs, they've basically never worked and seem to have a lot of time go ask for a job at places that will never hire them. The last one that stopped, twice so far this year by him alone, I told him the local fast food restaurant was hiring and go apply there, he said and I quote," I can make more on unemployment and welfare than they pay" and I ordered him off my property and told him to never come back.................he'll be back, I've told him that many times before. My question is, how do other business's handle these deadbeats wasting your time and how do you stop them from basically harassing you for a job they will never get nor want in the first place?
Delmer, you posted as I was typing, yes you are right about the question, but to say you are not accepting applications at this time is the same as saying no we are not hiring, so thus either way they use my business to milk the system or so I've been told and seems to be the case, because the same dozen will show up to be told the same thing within weeks.
As far as I know there is no requirement to accept applications. The only requirement I know of is not to discriminate.
There's a large chain store out here has two different applications for employment, the real one and a 3x5 note card for name, address, phone number so they can verify application if Unenjoyment calls, saves them the hassle of processing the deadbeats. YMMV One thing to keep in mind is some of these folks really are looking for work but there's usually a limited number of places to apply that fit their applicable skills under the unemployment rules, so they have to work at finding new places to apply, you can't just use the same ones over and over, at least not here in Oregon.
If I were that business I wouldn't want anyone to know about the 3x5 cards. I'm pretty sure a complicity to defraud action could be perfected.
I seriously doubt that, having different applications is not unusual, some places accept resumes in lieu of applications, etc. Have a document with contact details I am sure would meet the letter of the law as accepting an application.
I contacted the local unemployment office and asked some questions a while back, and to also register a complaint since I don't advertise I'm hiring and have a sign up of not hiring as to what I could do to deter these deadbeats. and was told in order to file a complaint against any of them, I first needed their social security number, I asked the person there if they thought any deadbeat would readily give me their social security number so I could file a complaint against them?? Got quiet and then they went onto to say just tell the unemployment office when they contacted me about these people who are using my name for their unemployment when I'm contacted if these people did indeed apply for work with my business, so I told them I've never heard from any unemployment office in all the years of being in business.................................. It took a few minutes of silence and then they stated, well, then, it seems the unemployment office official who's in charge of these clients isn't doing their job and I could file a complaint against them if I liked and was assured if I didn't have a sign out stating I was hiring, I shouldn't be bothered with anyone asking me for a job...................................... I asked when this rule came out and was told, its always been there and I should have told the person who contacts me within the unemployment office about this years ago....................I asked you mean the one who's never called but oversees all the applications where their clients have used my business for their unemployment..........................................I was then told this wasn't possible and since I've never been called it must mean nobody has used my business for any unemployment..................so I asked, why do they keep asking for a job then even after I've told them off more times than I can count and keep track of. It took being handed off to two more people before I was told it was my fault for not contacting them sooner on this issue, someone will contact me within a few days to follow up on this complaint of mine. Still waiting for that call. So I asked just how many are using my business for their unemployment..........................was told that was confidential and couldn't be told, I asked if it could be looked up and was told if I had these peoples social security number and I needed to have these people fill out a form to release THEIR information I could be told. I then asked if anyone who's not contacted me might be using my information for unemployment and was told, get this, I should have asked them when they didn't contact me if MY information was going to be used for unemployment purposes? I'm beginning to learn, much too late in life, the blind really do lead the blind and these people are classic examples of government intelligence at its finest.
@Randy88 You need some summer weather so you can get back to real work & stop thinking about this.....
Randy's problem right now is Iowa feb. weather. Either there's frost in the ground, so he can't dig. Or the frost has just gone out from a warm spell, so its too muddy, and he can't dig. He's probably had enough snow and cold already, so he's kind of sick of that, and if it has been cold and frozen for a while, he's spent all the $ he made last fall, fixing / maintaining his equipment in his shop. The only stuff he's got left to work on, are the one's too complicated, he's afraid he won't have done by the time he can dig, or the really expensive repairs, that he doesn't want to spend that much money on until he can go dig . To top it all off, if he's in the shop, about the time he gets working, some deadbeat/ meth addict shows up beating on the door, and he's got to take the time to shoo him off. Almost makes you wish you lived in Minnesota, so you could just go ice fishing. Hang in there Randy, spring is coming! I too suffer from people calling- most are laid off in the winter, don't want a job, just want to take a couple months off and have unemployment pay their bills.
You guys are about spot on, spring can't come soon enough, but warm weather won't stop some of these deadbeats, it seems most only work a few months every decade or so, some it seems work even less than that. But seriously, does anyone know how to stop these people legally from bothering me, spring won't help, they'll just stop by the jobsite, claiming to be looking for the landowner and then ask for a job while they are there, then I can't tell them off, its not my property and I have no idea if they indeed know the landowner or not.
I often wonder where those deadbeats could have worked long enough to get unemployment in the first place.
Watched them here in Michigan for years. The usual M.O. is: lawn services, dairy farms, orchards, canneries, pizza delivery and my all time favorite...... Goodwill. Then there is the lawsuit against Michigan unemployment for falsely accusing recipients of fraud. Well some of them anyway. Oh yeah, the suit settled on record time. Take a look at the article below. http://www.freep.com/story/news/loc.../michigan-unemployment-fraud-claims/97393916/
Well I guess I need to say I'm one of those "dead beats" ! The quarry I worked at in the shop for many years us mechanics were kept on year round. Then new management came in and decided to downsize the shop to eventually one mechanic and made that a 9 or 10 month position at the same time. So I guess I was guilty of "scamming" the system too! So if the consensus is that I am a bad person I will unsubscribe from this forum so as to not upset too many people. And yes the vast majority of the people who work at this quarry are what could be considered "seasonal". It is not easy to try to run a stone quarry in the winter in this part of the country so production is limited to 8 to 9 months of the year. So from what I'm hearing here is everyone should be fired at the first hard freeze and cut loose with no benifits or unemployment checks. Then next spring at first warm day company should put up a sign saying "Help Wanted" and hope they can find enough people to run the plant and spend hundreds of hours training these new employees who know they will kicked to the curb with no support when weather turns cold again in October. So let me know how soon I should unsubscribe so as to not cause any more trouble on this forum.
I used to see what kshansen talks about when I lived up north. Seasonal work meant a couple months off. However, most of the guys and owners knew that come spring everybody would be back to work more or less in the same place. I think that's a different use of the system than Randy is talking about. I share your sentiments Randy as far as the abuse of the system. Seems like it's all rigged against the small business and for the lazy entitled scumbags. Just my .02 Unemployment has its place but it's not to live on indefinitely. I don't think any offense was meant to a situation like yours kshansen. That was not of your doing or control. Junkyard
But I still feel that I'm going to be lumped into the group of "scumbags". Just like anyone who gets any kind of government assistance is called a "Taker". It does not matter to some that the person "taking" today may have spent the last 30 to 40 years paying into the system but heaven forbid that due to something far out of their control they need to ask for help for a couple months now and then.
I certainly hope not! I certainly don't feel that way and I'd care to wager everybody here feels the same. It's all good!
Kshansen, if you read my first post carefully, I don't have an issue with anyone who's earnestly looking for work or laid off of a job for a while in the winter or when work is slow, the one's I have issues with are those that literally work some weeks a year to a month a year or every few years and live on unemployment as a career and that's no joke, that's how they view it as a career, I asked and what some of them told me personally. The worst abusers in my area have such a long list of jail and law offenses its not funny, when not in jail, or in the legal system awaiting jail time, they somehow find a job, only to be fired shortly and somehow get back on unemployment and can live off of it for years before finding themselves back in jail for the next offense. The one that irritates me the most, is a local person, who's been charged with bank robbery, arson, destruction of private property, destruction of public property, drug charges and many drug related arrests, drunk driving arrests or I should say, was arrested but the charges were dropped, multiple times, driving on a revoked license many times, fraud charges that were later dropped and the very first time I ever met him he was stealing gas from my shop tank I told him off and tossed him out only to have him ask if I was hiring and if he could use my business name for his unemployment and that was 30 years ago and by asking for a job, ironically he's not doing anything illegal and I can't legally stop him from asking, I asked law enforcement. He has no talent, can't read or write English or any language, has no license that I know of, hasn't had a job other than a parking lot attendant in years, and that's only for a few weeks a year and somehow, he can apply for work or ask for work from me, knowing full well, I won't hire him nor could if I wanted it, my insurance nor anyone's would ever allow it, so he's safe by asking for work and since he can't find work, he's entitled to unemployment for almost the entire year with the exception of a few weeks a year and I was told that was supposed to be community service of some sort he gets paid for and has been doing it for decades. Most of the rest in my area are about as bad, mostly drug related and legal offense's and is usually accompanied with multiple drunk driving charges and having no license and haven't had for years and nobody could hire them, in my area farmers can't even hire them or would hire them. As far as I'm concerned these types should be required to do community service for 40 hours a week to get their unemployment and be supervised while doing something worthwhile, and not have to get their quota of business names to get their unemployment, they should have to check in every day five day's a week and do something, filling potholes in streets, shoveling sidewalks in the winter, mowing lawn in city or county property, walking road ditches to pick up garbage and a host of other things, by giving them a check, and not requiring them to work, for years at a time, they have too much idle time to get into more trouble and cause tax payers more money in the legal system. Nobody with a talent and job for the bulk of year fits this category ever, and I never meant to refer to them as well, only those that are basically unhirable and a burden on society are the one's I have a gripe with.
all you have todo is ask for a work history and tell them you are going to call the last job they had for references, that should cut out all the scammers..
Khansen- I don't think anyone here was talking about your situation. I would sincerely miss your input, and advice you freely give on this forum. I really enjoy reading your posts. It's common in the road construction and quarry work/ asphalt plant, in my area, for all those employees to have a 2 month seasonal layoff. Anyone who has a problem with those guys drawing needs to remember they work 90 hour weeks through the summer, and are constantly paying into the system. I don't see a problem with them getting some of it back. I actually have a employee who was laid off at another employeer, and he told me when he got laid off - he was going to try to collect unemployment for a year or two. He got a nice letter after less than 9 months from the state of missouri that his benefits had run out. He called me "I guess I'm going to go back to work", and he's been with me a couple years now. I think here, the only long term people on a government check, have to get a doctor to sign off with a disability. I grew up in a conservative, Midwest farming community. Friends and Family in the farming game, seemed to constantly harp on government spending, unemployment , disability , etc., Government spends way too much money. Look down on some guy with 3 kids who got laid off at the factory drawing unemployment etc. Yet when the government was handing out LDP and CRP payments, none of them turned down their checks. "Well - we would have gone under farming without those government checks." Money going to other people looks like a hand out- when it was coming to them- it looked like a life preserver. Sometimes things look different, just based on where you're standing.
I would gladly forfeit all USDA "interference payments" If they would stop meddling with my farming operation. Of course the only way that can be done is for USDA to discontinue commodity price manipulation and allow me to buy private crop insurance without participating in their control programs.
Randy88 , More then likely alrman , I think your on to something Mate ! Randy turned down my job application as well . Keep a stiff upper lip Randy , spring & better weather is just around the corner .
Many, including me, need employment ins. I pay for it and use it. Randy, shut down your business and get a job that pays by the hour. I'll hire you on and lay you off when the equipment breaks down. When there is no work, take a break, probably more work in about 2 weeks........ Meanwhile, Randy, Pay your rent, food and everything else that your family needs to survive, until we have more work. Let us know how it all works out, when your truck gets repossessed, kicked out of your house and you can't put food on the table. But hay, I'll probably have more work for you ......in about 2 more weeks!
TD25c, I'm sorry I'm not currently hiring, but if I were, I'd hire you on the spot. auen1, if read the entire thread, I'd think you'd be upset with these same people, they are using up dollars meant for those who have been employed that are laid off, or are actively looking for a job. I'd think you'd be appalled that these people are manipulating the system to their advantage and avoid working making it that much harder for anyone who's legitimately looking for a job to get a job application handed to them due to so many of these types out there making all those on legitimate unemployment and deserving those benefits looked down upon by many business's and handing off the hiring to agencies instead of doing the hiring themselves like has been done decades ago. These people are making it that much harder for you to get an interview or be able to sit down with a good business rep one on one because so many business's are tired of these types wasting their time? I'd think you'd be beyond upset by having to wait in line behind these types who don't want the job, and you do and are delaying your hiring by processing so many bogus applications and having to take so much time to sift through all those applications? So could you explain to me how you could be upset and defend them?? I'm not understanding this at all, if you feel your equal to these people can you explain it, I'm not seeing that myself at all, I'd think those not in this group would be outraged these people are abusing a system set up to cushion the transition for workers who are between jobs or when work is slow, please explain where I don't understand why your not upset at these types who make everyone who's on employment to find a good job so much harder and take so much longer??
I worked for a company ONCE that encouraged its people to collect it.. They produced injection systems for the Govt. and when the contract was up or it was filled, they would wait a week and lay everyone off. they had such a reputation w/ the unemployment office, they would CALL THEM to let them know they were bout to get hit w/ an influx of people from their company.. and to OK the checks.. I never had the opportunity to go but a lot of others did, 100's.. and in 2 week or even 1 DAY after the lay off, they would call them all back because the Govt re-upped the contract for another 500-1000 units.. another 9-12 month job. When MY dept contract was filled & they chopped heads, I left.. I have to be stable and KNOW there my check is coming from.. Its similar to working strictly on commission.. I wont do it and never will.. But I guess the "KEY WORD" here is WORK.. BTW> we ALL KNOW Hansen's a bum.. LOL The way he "lurks" on this site and never helps out.. LOL I've OFTEN THOUGHT about working during the winter & taking the summers off.. I just cant figure a way to do it AND get a paycheck.
Maybe it is different there Ken but in most states we worked in the unemployed that were seasonal employee's did not have to do the work search thing. I verified many times each year to unemployment agencies that would send a form letter in various states that the employee would indeed be called back. Msot I never heard from again after the first year. The only folks I am aware of that have to do the verified work search is if they are on a extension of the benefits. The feds mandated that when a person could draw up to a year with extensions. Of course I have not worked in every state. Don't go away Ken, I was not talking about any mostly gainfully employed person. The highway/ heavy guys here are almost all off for a portion of the year, but they also as you did worked for years and most of every year enough to pay in there fair share. Edit: Employers here have to pay into the unemployment fund a rate that is based on the number of employees versus the number laid off each quarter. Seasonal companys pay much higher unemployment rates that say a factory or other year round employer.
To complete my post above I also as Randy 88 mentioned had more than my share of people come into the office and look for a construction job that did not want to get hired. Many said so. Some came dressed is shorts and sandals with no means of transportation and mentioned that they needed the paper signed as some states require so they could continue benefits. There is two sides to everything and sometimes a few mess it up for the good upon whom it was designed for.
Old iron has it right, my gripe is and has been with those scamming the system, I don't feel its right they can get away with it, nor I should have to contribute to them cheating the system so to speak against those it was designed for in the first place, I'd have thought those doing the right thing and getting benefits the system was designed for would be appalled their benefits system was being abused, but I guess I should do what most business owners do and just go along with it, shrug it off and say, well its not my system, why should I care, I'm only being inconvenienced dealing with those cheating the system, I should just laugh it off and move on, after a few comments on here, I may have to rethink this whole thing and wonder to myself. When these types come along, I need to cut them a deal, they agree to never come back and they can just use my business anytime they want for whatever bogus names they need, whenever they need it, nobody will ever check anyhow, {nobody has in the last 30 years} and I won't have to deal with them ever again and its not my system being scammed and if anyone would call, I can tell them, nobody within the system legitimately receiving benefits cares, why should I and besides I'm not doing anything illegal by doing just what I typed and it'll save me countless hours of wasted time and effort dealing with them. I guess I've been far too critical on this, thinking what they are doing is wrong and by using my business I was somehow defrauding a system set up for employee's who are temporarily out of work, laid off or between jobs who are earnestly looking for work, I guess everyone is included in this system and I should have seen that, those who haven't had a job in decades and never paid a dime in are just as entitled as those who have worked for years and only used the system a few times. I'm seeing its not my judgment call to make. I think I won't have any problem helping get a few hundred signed up for YOUR benefits in a short time and within a few years a few thousand shouldn't be out of line once word gets out ANYONE can use my business for claiming YOUR benefits. In a strange sort of way, I have to thank you few that helped me see where I was wrong in thinking I needed to determine right from wrong, I can now sleep much better at night knowing I'm not defrauding your system, nor breaking the law and many more are happy about it, besides other business's are letting them so it must be right, and those within the system are upset by me not letting these types collect or me complaining about these types scamming their program. Sorry for starting this tread, the moderators can shut it down if they wish, I've learned enough by attempting to do the right moral thing, I won't do it again and sorry for upsetting anyone on here.
Well here in NY you a suppose to be looking for work unless you have a definite "back to work date". Problem is the outfit I worked for would never give you one. You were lucky to get more than a few days notice, like get a call on Friday saying "See You Monday". And Unemployment Office had you fill out a form listing your qualifications and types of work you did so they could forward you job referrals. Problem is those "desk jockeys" had no idea of what any job really was. More than once I would get a referral for a job that was maintaining equipment in a factory that specified things like programming controls on manufacturing equipment. And those referrals always seemed to come a day or two after I had been called back to work so I have to send a letter explaining why I failed to go in for an interview or else possibly get put on the "naughty list" for next fall. Then they ask if you are doing anything that could earn you money while collecting unemployment. If you were to sell an old motorcycle or take a load of scrap to the scrap yard you might be penalized if they found out. But then some major companies are well know for working people just up to the limit of what kicks in the point they are considered full time workers and qualify for various benefits then let them go and hire a new body to fill the position. This all the while keeping the pay rate low enough so that most workers qualify for government assistance so us full time workers pay taxes to support the major companies employees! So who is the real "Welfare Queens"? I'd better stop before I do get banned for getting political!
In SC all you do is apply in person ONCE.. Your given a PIN..THEN its all done over the phone w/ recorded msgs.. Are you still unemployed? Y/N Are you looking for a job? Y/N THANK YOU.. Your check for "X" will be delivered on or about O/OO/OOOO.. You have "X" weeks left of unemployment benefits remaining.. HAVE A NICE DAY.. Then you given the option of "talking " to a "placement professional".. How would you like to have THAT JOB?? Just how many people do you think they ACTUALLY TALK TO?? 1 maybe 2 a month..?? I'd like to take a look at that dudes browser list.. talk about a waste of money.. LOL
Its to bad that some states gets stupidly excessive with messing with people that have a job 95% of the time. In Minnesota a union member only has to be registered on the out of work list at the union hall to collect his due benefits without looking for work, unless they have drawn all their earned unemployment claim out and are on a federal extension. Other folks only need an employer to give a approximate date of rehire. Pretty hard for a contractor to know the exact date he can start on any given spring. They normally will not bother folks again a month later than there due to work date if they are still drawing.
It's not just unemployment that is the issue and being scammed, I believe there is a place for it but it is also abused by many. Tried to get a family member hired on as a porter at a shop I worked at because he cried hard times when he was on unemployment, he all but had the job, only had to show up and sign papers. Decided it wasn't worth it. I believe disability, welfare, foodstamps/ebt, are all abused and poorly regulated. When I work myself ragged everyday and come home and do cash work just to get the ends tied together, it pisses me off when I go buy the essentials at the store and see someone buying steak, beer, tobacco, etc on food stamps which is my tax money, when I'm buying pork and beans and ramen noodles with my money. That being said, people fall on hard times and sometimes need a hand up, but it shouldn't be a lifestyle to live on our tax dollars.
The nature of any government assistance program will fall to the lowest common denominator. As has been documented on here, the people watching the henhouse, or store, are not motivated to keep it honest. In fact their motivation might be the opposite. The incentive for those using the system is also backwards. Generally, they have no compelling reason to want to leave it, if they are satisfied with what we could call an 80% lifestyle for zero hours work, why would they want to work 40+ hours for a 100% lifestyle? Diminishing returns.
That is exactly how it works with me as I am a union operator. I sign that I have my dues paid and I am expected to be recalled by my employer. Do not get bothered any more.
I did a dollar store in a very poor part of the city a few years ago. There would be many that would stop by the job and ask if we were hiring, which I wasn't due to the fact I was lucky to land that job and keep my guys busy. They would then ask for a business card, I went through a lot of cards. It was later that I learned my business card was proof they were looking for a job. I'm sure there were some that were honestly looking for work and some that were scamming the system, that's human nature. I'm looking forward to a robust economy where anyone that truly wants a job can get one and improve their well being. The free loaders will weed themselves out.
Me too. It will be good to see some Made in America pride again. Its been to long.
I'm not so optimistic this will happen. There are far too many for whom it has become a way of life. Their voting bloc has become so big that it is an indispensable one.
That is what I call voting for a living. They are going to vote for who ever will give them the most free stuff. They won't vote for the one promising a shovel or wrench in every hand, they want a chicken for every pot, on someone else' dime.
Road building here goes from around the 20 of may until the middle of November. Some projects might start earlier, but spring weight restrictions don't lift until may. You can also work later depending on the weather. I'm 45 and have been a seasonal worker since 1996. I take all the work I can, but have been a regular user of unemployment insurance. Because of the abusers of the system, they make it harder for everyone on the system. One of the rules is that if you quit without just cause, you can not qualify for employment insurance. If you can find someone to hire you to get your hours for EI, and lay you off, they can't hire someone to replace you without a lot of questions being asked. I get $918 every 2 weeks which is pretty good money to sit home all winter. But I am required to actively look for work, and I have to keep records of it. As of yet, they can't force me to leave the province.If year around work was there, I would do it. Like I told unemployment...I can count on one hand the number of graders around here, and one finger will tell you who uses theirs in winter.
Once when I was complaining to my Dad about something like this pertaining to copious rules and associated actions by dishonest folks, he reminded me that a system with rules and policies are applicable to most of the folks while there will always be those folks who feel otherwise. I believe he was indicating those who don't oblige a system will create this type of consternation.
First off, I'm a self-employed contractor but have had seasonal jobs in the past which allowed me to collect UE bennies for a month+/- per year. I also hear ya on the "cabin fever". Bank-roll is dwindling, bids are coming in slow, owners and employees are becoming restless working in the shop rather than out in the dirt. Ice fishing has been decent though. Another facet to this issue is the government agencies issuing these benefits. I see it all too often with our SS offices and such. The more hand-outs they give and the more people on the government roll means more job security for them and a larger budget the next year. I don't want to turn this political so I'll leave it at that. There are two types that collect from our government. Some need it because if a situation beyond their control and some abuse it because they are too lazy to put in an honest days work. Those two groups are entirely different people and need to be kept separate in these discussions. my $0.02
This really isn't your main focus of business. You should have more on your plate than to worry about someone who works for you and then leaves...just don't hire them again and move on with your life. The distraction is costing you money.
I agree. Cost of doing business. Nothing much is going to change until the ultimate decision maker, that is, the customer, wises up that this and a thousand other factors of interference and cost increase all conspire to drive the cost of every job sky high, and demand reform from those with the power to reform it. And of course we have no way of knowing how many jobs are completely sunk by all the tacked on costs increasing the final price, thus contributing to economic sluggishness. Oh well.
Real issue here IMO...legislators! The system for what it was designed for has been altered to promote abuse. There are still many people that use it as it is intended but unfortunately many more that misuse it. Until that changes, it's sad to say, will only continue or worsen.
Been happy to state in all my 40+ years working managed ONE UI check ever. Felt bad taking that one and had to jump through hoops just to get there after 30 days wait. I know of at least a dozen buttheads that go to work for between 3-6 weeks either get fired or quit and are first in line for UI the very next day. Employers have figured a few of them, they are now denying their claims.