I had a conversation with an old Cat hoe mechanic last week. He thinks that the current Diesel Fuel had additives similar to Ethanol in gas. (Not Ethanol, but similar issues) He says this damages parts in injector systems and causes leaks in injector pumps. He has had problems with some kind of check ball that the fuel turns soft and it clogs the line. HE thinks older machines and older trucks have problems caused by the fuel. Q1) Does anyone agree with this? Q2) If so, would "Off Road" fuel be better or worse to use?
It is reported that the new "E15 gas" is destroying gas engines and I wonder if any of the new standard apply to diesel fuel. Here is an article about the E15. http://washingtonexaminer.com/study-new-e15-gas-can-ruin-auto-engines/article/2520078 I would never knowingly put E15 fuel in my car. I agree that additives could swell up parts or cause them to deteriorate faster. I have seen this working on outboard motors over the last 20 years. The Biodiesel's could be different, I know they may smell like to food that they were cooking. Follow a truck down the road and keep smelling Big Mac's!
I agree. When ULSD came out years ago, I had about half my diesels start leaking in a very short period of time. Don't know what that was from but that's my experience. They were living on borrowed time to start with, but it happened so quickly that it didn't seem like a coincidence to me. Bio is known for dissolving the gunk, which is a good thing to me, but it may cause some leaks too. The downside of Bio is the mess it turns into in a few months, especially with water. If you smell the Big Mac and fries, I think the truck is burning waste vegetable oil, that's a whole nother can of worms.
Before ULSD came out, all the magazines were reporting that it was going to make older diesels leak because the seal materials used were not compatible with it. The EPA acknowledged this was true but said it would only cost an average of $900/ engine to reseal the fuel systems and that cost would be inconsequential to the industry. (thanks again, EPA). I had 6 or 7 E7 Mack engines from 1994 to 1998 running and every single one of them developed a leaking anti-drainback valve within a few weeks. All my Cummins with PT pumps, and all my engines with Roosamaster pumps (about 7 or 8 engines) developed throttle shaft seal leaks at the same time. My Cats just poured from everywhere. So obviously the answer to question #1 is yes! the answer to #2 is no because from everything I've read and gotten from talking to fuel distributors the only difference is dye and taxes. It is permissible to use Low Sulfur Diesel off-road, but the refiners don't make it anymore, due to concerns about getting a tiny bit in the Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel, thus making it into LSD. The old diesel formulation with plenty of beneficial sulfur is illegal all over the US. The sulfur was good for the engine due to it's high-temp, high-pressure, lubricating properties.
"My Cats just poured from everywhere" Mitch i'm curious what engines and seals did you find on your cats that leaked fuel because of ULS fuel?
Wow. So I then wonder about the seal kits. Have they now changed all of them so that the o-rings are some different material so that it lasts? I was thinking some might try to blame Seafoam or some other additive/cleaners that we may all use. I think my problem is mainly the worn throttle shaft, but I do not have it off yet. I sure do read lots about leaky injector pumps and the shops say a complete rebuild is necessary.
Supposedly all the new seals are compatible, unless somebody just shipped you new old stock, which would have to be very old. If it's a Lucas CAV pump, (they leaked at the throttle shaft seals too), it is pretty simple to reseal a top cover. PAcattech, they were 3304s, both scroll metering pumps and the other style I can't say at the moment. They leaked at the shaft seals and the fuel return hoses and a few other minor spots.
Mercedes diesel cars had the leaker problem with ULSD. I knew a Mercedes independent shop back then, he had 6 cars up in the air on hoists. 4 of them were leakers. $1500 on average to fix them.
I totally agree not to use any fuel additive, not sure on Diesel but on gas engines I will never use them again, I have so much past history to prove each time I added a can the pumps went bad. no guessing, no it might have been, its a fact back in the day the fuel additive on any gas engine mainly in cars blew up the pumps.
Mine is a CAV pump. In my case the hoe had been sitting inside a barn and not running for over 3 years when I started working on it. I did run some Seafoam cleaner in the tank for a while as I worked on changing all the fuel filters. However I do not know if it was leaking before this or not. I think everything is all clean and it runs great now, just the drips that seems to be getting worse.
I have machines from 1970 thru 2013, and they all run happily on today's ULSD. No fuel leaks to speak of, on any of them. That means my 1969 Brockway, my 1970 410 backhoe, my 1988 416 backhoes, my 1995 Ford F800, my 1988 Kubota B9200, my Cat 322L's, my Cat 322B's, my 1986 3406B and 1986 Cummins Big Cam 400, and, I could go on and on.
lucky man
Bowen, The reason the shops say a complete O/H is necessary is to CYA..They know if you plug 1 leak its going to leak somewhere else and they don't want the customer coming back in raising hell over something that could have been prevented in the first go around.. I have the same issues with my customers..but I ALWAYS give the option and do what the customer wants..MY explination is, "just depends on how many times you want to pull this thing off."
I did not mean to be critical for the shops wanting to rebuild one that only needs leaks stopped. I am sure the best option is to replace all the seals and hopefully be done with it. I do hope to find what is causing the leaks if it's something I did like adding cleaner. I think I have learned that clean fuel & filter replacements are really important, plus not let one sit uncranked for 2 years.
I read an article somewhere about fuel condition in general, and some of the problems arise from cross contamination. Bio diesel seems to find it's way into ULSD through transportation/storage, and even trace amounts can wreak havoc on a fuel system. A chemical reaction happens with any moisture and causes rust-like deposits to form and we ran across this on a used engine we bought and changed fuel filters and they looked rusted on top. Figuring we major issues with the pump, we sent it off for repair and it was just fine. We sampled the fuel and it had a trace of bio-diesel in it, which promted our search of problems. Since the engine was installed, we have ahd several leakage issues on the return side and the seals felt gummy. We had our fuel tested and it was ok, so the leakage must have been caused by contamination somewhere in the previous use of the engine. We replaced the seals and it's been ok since then. This whole fuel issue has turned into a major pita and is only going to get worse.