back in 1971 two owners ago, the country farm road pictured below had a 10 INCH high pressure gas line put up the right side (in right trench general area). The orginial owner was paid $600.00 for this with an agreement to have the road returned to original shape, fencing, and drains to be replaced, etc. nothing else was mentioned in the one page easement. over the years, the road has deteriorated, as there was not slope or tilt to inside and no ditch line. all that is left is rock (big and little), I'm afraid to drive my d5g near it, or over it. I'm afraid to knock the ridge out of middle of due weight issue and the chance of hitting rock and pushing it down, etc. Even if i did manage to level it or put gravel on it, it will wash out as bank to left has not ditch. I guess my question is: does anyone here have a clue to what my standing is , in asking the gas company to fix road, it has even washed out the barns wall concrete blocks due to the draining being wrong. the barn is lower is about 5 feet from pipe. I can't even dig with a mini without fear. I'd love to them to cut a little out of the bank, and put a runoff, down the left side and raise the outer right side. It's frustrating:beatsme as i have the equipment to cut the bank back but the weight and rock issue :Banghead any suggestions will be appreciated. thanks. ps. i've thought of asking them first then asking a attorney, as the run off is so bad as the water in winter is so bad it goes down to main roadway, and washes accoss with gravel and freezes in winter. thanks again. (it is STUPID that i found about this line from an older gentleman, in the area that said he had welded, the line back in the day, and miss utility just spray painted the line, there was no permanent markers of any kind no where, Miss utility didn't even mark the line on the first visit until i told them about the guy who said he welded it.)
That right there would suggest to me that the gas company is going to laugh at you if you suggest they do anything to help fix the road. How would you prove they didn't do exactly what they'd agreed to? I doubt they'd have taken any responsibility 3.7 years after they installed the pipe, let alone 37. The good news is that the main is probably deep enough that you can do any re-grading you need without getting close to it. (But I'm not stupid enough to guarantee that.)
I used a bent welding wire to determine the depth by starting at ground level and raising it, and came to hip high when it turned in line with pipeline. I mostly concerned about weight as i have read on miscellaneous gas company sites about such. for example from one site: Q. What about farm, logging and other vehicle traffic over the pipeline? A. Wherever the pipeline goes under an existing road, the crossing will be constructed to handle traffic for which the road was designed. Most farm equipment has no effect on the pipeline. But, where very heavy equipment is used, extra protection will be used over the pipeline. Since we cannot anticipate all future uses of land, the company will clearly indicate the pipeline route with markers that have a special toll-free number to call before digging or moving unusually heavy equipment over the line. We will maintain regular communications with landowners to ensure that they can continue their normal operations. so from what your saying IYHO, if run-off, is all the way to road, and the company won't allow me to work on area, and they don't fix it themselves, a party that would have a car wreck due it ice over road in run-off area (curvy road), I think a attorney for the party would go after the deeper pockets of a gas company than a individual. or probably both.
thanks for the reply, i appreciate your thoughts., as for proving anything, the original easement mentioned drain placement, and there is no drains or anywhere, not even a ditchline. to take it one step further, IMO they laid it and forgot it, there is not one permanent marker , on my land, or neighbors land, and it covers about 80 acres, and no markers and some of the gas guys didn't even know about it, until i told them about the 80 year old guy telling me about it. thanks, i'm going to ask, shoots it don't hurt to ask. they might bring a light piece out to grade it and put a small drain down the side, that may be cheaper for them than a repair from me trying, or my funeral expenses. who knows. i was just hoping someone on here might have seen similar cases, etc.
You posted your second reply while I was composing this, but I'm not going to bother editing it. I will add though, that there may have been markers 37 years ago. Those should be the gas company's responsibility to maintain, and shame on them if they haven't. Your pickup truck probably has higher ground pressure than your D5. I wouldn't worry about the weight as much as I would hitting it with the blade. I've seen guys find lines using bent wires. I never could. That's the first time I've heard of using one to determine depth though. Interesting. What I'm saying is that the gas company isn't going to accept responsibility for the road beyond what they did to restore it in 1971. If there's a problem with runoff, it's your problem, not theirs. And if I'm the gas company's attorney, I'm going to say that it was your responsibility to maintain your road. How you meet that responsibility is up to you, whether it means using your own D5, or hiring a kid with a shovel and a wheelbarrow, is your choice. Your convenience is not their concern, but you're also responsible for any damage to the line. You bought that problem when you bought the property. (That's one reason I'd never be an attorney. I hate having to take a hard line with good people like yourself. Heck, I feel guilty about even saying it here, just as an uneducated opinion.) Frankly, I'd talk to the gas company and determine what they feel you can do in the area without endangering anything. You might be pleasently surprised. I'm sure somebody else here can offer a more educated opinion than mine...
Sorry this might sound stupid, but who owns the road?
Go to your local Planning & Zoning Office and ask them. They are the ones who would have issued the easement so they will be able to tell you who is required to do what. If you find the gas company is responsible, let P&Z print out the ordinance(s) which say so and relay them to the gas company. P&Z will do this for you, it's what they're there for. If you are responsible, the gas company should hold some responsibility to give you advice on how to go about doing what you are trying to accomplish. After all, your plans are held up because their gas line, which you're not allowed to touch, is under the road. The fact that a surrounding structure is being compromised because of the drainage problem ahould be brought up to both parties mentioned above. Definately go to P&Z first though, so you can find out what your options really are. The in-laws have a 37 year old easement, across their neighbors land, that has been in court many times over the years. Around here the owner of the land is only responsible for allowing access to the specified area of the easement. The easement holder is responsible for up-keep, but if the easement holder decides not to keep the easement maintained, that is their choice. The easement still stands. I can almost guarantee this will vary by county or city. Ask the gas company for the $600 back and call it even.
not at all......I do.
i'd never seen it before either, this guy from miss utility showed me. I asked him how deep does he think the line is. he had this new fancy electronic finder, but when i asked him how deep, he showed me how to do it. he kept it level, close to the gound pointing across the pipeline, then picked it straight up slowly. when it turned right or left in line with pipe, he stopped and said it's that deep. I WAS STOKED . cheap wire verses a electronic gadget.
What size is the line? Here the pipeline use a locater then,then hand probes the line with a steel probe.Writes on the flag how deep it is. I won't trust your gas mans way of deciding how deep it is.No way!!!!!!!! If you do the work make sure they probe it to know for sure how deep it is. Here the pipeline guy is there the whole time the work is being done,If you need help crossing the line is is right there.They are excellent to work with here.Good luck:usa
Hi Wv. I am located in a different country to you (as if that wasn't hard to work out) . I will venture a guess and bear in mind that I am not familiar with the laws of your jurisdiction and it is unlikely that I will ever be, especially if St Peter has any say so over entry rights to where you reside. As my name suggests I am more familiar with the rules of that other place Down There. Anyway leaving those technical issues aside I would expect that the Gas Utility in laying the gas line is required by legislative standards to lay the gas line within a certain depth of natural ground level. From what I understand you have said so far, the gas pipe has come closer to the surface because of erosion and run off. It would appear then that the Company maybe in breach of it's legislative requirement to have the gas line within a certain depth. If this is the case the company must comply by either retrenching the pipeline run or resurfacing the road. I might add that it appeared to me that the original trench was dug in the worst possible location (but easiest for trenching). I think the trench should have been on the uphill side closest to the embankment to avoid the serious erosion and settling which can occur on the outside edge. Again this is just a guess from my part and you have received advice from other honourable members on this forum which also appears worthwhile. Regards, Aussie Nick
Couple of questions- When you bought the property did you get a survey? If you did get a survey did the easement show up? Did the easement show up on the title binder?
I think Aussie Nick is on the same path of thought as I was...after reading some post. I called the gas company and they asked me to get a copy of the original easement, the guy said he was concerned about the water draining down in the main road and me not being able to fix it myself, and if the original easement said replace drains, and the only drain was the tire tracks. then there's a problem. they are going to call me to come out by next week. I'm going to of course, say I "need your help, can ya" as i have found out through years people respond better when helping than when demanded to do something. I'm going to do some research as I think NICK has a thought, if the run off in the tire tracks has been bad for so many years, then the depth of pipe is not as originally set. I'm sure the is a REG somewhere stating such depth requirement. Thanks
10 high pressure main! i agree on the trusting part, but i'm sure it is a close estimate, but I wouldn't trust it with my life. Ever since Aussie Nick mentioned it I bet the run off has made it less covered, i need to find the depth requirements any one here know for WV and that size of pipe......
update Went to get a copy of the easement, and while there a attorney in the cleks office told me to show them a item he checked in the easement agreement. " It is agreed that the gas line to be laid under this grant shall be constructed and maintained below cultivation, so the Grantors may fully use and enjoy the premises subject to the rights of the grantee to main and operate said lines." he said unqoute, how can you enjoy premises when you can't travel the road without 4x4 or the fear of being sued during runoff. I have an appointment Tues they are coming out to my place....i may have a chance to get help without me even messing with.
Glad to hear that. Sounds like halfway decent lawyer. Hope it works out.
Geez, I hate it when I find a thread like this interesting, start reading it and the poster leaves us hanging with no updates or final outcome.
Yeah 2 months, what happened ?? jr
2 years
Yep you're right , bad eyes. jr
I Was just in the USA. Could have done a site inspection.Would be good to find out how it worked out......Nick