I heard from a trucker one time that it is ok to mix a little gas with diesel fuel. he said it increases the volatility and keeps fuel from gelling also it helps them start easier in cold weather and it works better than additives im just wondering cause #2 diesel is cheaper and I have a 7.3 powerstroke ford that likes to sleep on cold days. I heard that some cat engines have the same style fuel injection systems. is there any damage that can happen to the injectors themselves like ruining seals lines or filters. Im not sure of this myth and no one where im from has a clue about what im talking about they just say get a gasser so to hell with em I say that's why im here any info on this would be great not only for my question but for other systems that use injection pumps and different kinds of fuel injectors cause stalling up cause of gelled fuel sucks and could be deadly in some situations thanks
Welcome pumba! I have heard this as well but have never known anyone has has actually tried it. I do know this - the price of #1 or blended fuel seems cheap relative to gelling up.
Yes they did it on the older diesels but don't about the newer ones basically it just made the fuel hotter
We do it all the time, new trucks old trucks I'd doesn't matter.... About 2 gal gas to 30gal fuel but I have mixed it a lot stronger and have had no ill side affects Honestly one time my hand messed up and mixed gas/diesel about 50/50 and we just through a quart of synthetic 5w engine oil in it and trucks still going strong, the fuel economy went down a little because there is not as much btu in a gal of gas as there is diesel ....... Oh and it was a brand new duramax
Are you sure the glow plugs, or at least most of them, and the air intake heater, if equipped, and the relay that powers them, are all working at the moment?
the glowers are workin if I lay a wrench across the solenoid then turn the key to start it I wasted a 100 bucks on a non returnable solenoid that wasn't the problem its just that I live on a hill in northern nd with no cover in any direction and the temp likes to bottom out and the wind blows like hell makes it hard to get going in the morning just to get to a frozen truck and start the fight sll over again
There is not as much btu in gasoline as there is in diesel fuel, with that being said you need to check each individual glow plug. Throw an ammeter on the solonoid wire and then start unplugging them and make sure your amp draw drops in equal amounts with each glow plug that you unplug, we had several 7.3's and NOT A SINGLE ONE did we NOT replace the glow plugs and the solonoids every 2yrs, if I remember right there is two solonoids on some of them ? The very first power strokes were temperamental on oil level as well, if I remember right fords fix for it was a shorter dipstick ! LoL kinda like the '88 Chevy blowing the trans stick out.....the fix to that was a locking dipstick, or the old tahoes/suburbans had a horrible grease smell.... The fix was grape scented rear end 80-90wt lmao GGE Calculated for Gasoline in US Gallons at 114000 BTU per Gallon, or 7594 kilocalories per litre[2] Fuel - Liquid, US Gallons GGE GGE % BTU/Gal kWh/Gal HP-hr/Gal Cal/litre Gasoline (base)[3] 1.0000 100.00% 114,000 33.41 44.79 7594.0 Gasoline (conventional, summer)[3] 0.9960 100.40% 114,500 33.56 44.99 7624.5 Gasoline (conventional, winter)[3] 1.0130 98.72% 112,500 32.97 44.20 7496.5 Diesel #2[5] 0.8800 113.64% 129,500 37.95 50.87 8629.8 Biodiesel (B100)[5] 0.9600 104.17% 118,300 34.80 46.65 8629.5 Bio Diesel (B20)[5] 0.9000 111.11% 127,250 37.12 49.76 8437.7 Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent
I just re-read this...... Are you saying that when you jump the glow solonoid that you have amperage draw ? Meaning the computer isn't turning on the glows ? Have you considered a engine temp sensor or an intake air temp sensor ? ...... If the solonoid was doing its job you should not have any arcing across the lugs.....unless your shorting the lug to ground which I wouldn't recommend in any situation Edit; I remember one cold morning many years ago the shop hand got in early and started firing up all the trucks, a half dozen powerjokes (hence my screen name ) and a half dozen big trucks and all the white smoke we almost shut the highway down near the shop lol oh the old days
I just re-read this...... Are you saying that when you jump the glow solonoid that you have amperage draw ? Meaning the computer isn't turning on the glows ? Have you considered a engine temp sensor or an intake air temp sensor ? ...... If the solonoid was doing its job you should not have any arcing across the lugs.....unless your shorting the lug to ground which I wouldn't recommend in any situation EDIT; ah crap I posted twice, can a mod delete this post, sorry bout that
Gas in Diesiel I first saw this about twenty five years ago.... Old Minnesota trick this California boy won't forget... It keeps the Diesel from Gelling in cold weather... We were going down the road when the truck was running rough.... They dumped a couple gallons of Gas in the tank... Works cheaper than those additives I see people buying... I tell them about putting gas in it instead... They can search for information from there... . Gotta Fly... . .
the manifold heater works fine there is a solenoid behind the fuel filter I jump it straight across from the power side to the other side of the solenoid that runs the glow plugs if I don't do that it wont start I never ever use starting fluid I just put the ash pan from the wood stove on a brick and blocks under the oil pan heats that bitch right up after all they are thermal engines
so jumping the solenoid to heat the plugs taught me my lesson I was doing this as I always did but with a different wrench and well the wrench grounded out on the high pressure oil line for the passenger side head and popped it oil every where and no starting for me left me screwed in -11 at night what a dumbbutt I felt like no one in this area could make a line for me and the international guys said that the ones they have wont work I think they were lying to me though like they changed so much about the engine jus to put it in a ford truck I hate arguing with the idiots that go strictly by the book and computer an d that could lead me to rant about it so I said hell with yall and found a guy with a junker got the part I needed installed it in the dark and cold and the moral of the story is some wrenches are to long and riggin things up to get by will bite your backside hard I got 30 bucks worth of connectors wire and a push button
We mix gas in the diesel in winter also at appox. 5% this keeps everything from jelling here in Missouri
Why not mix kerosene instead of the gas?
Never thought of kerosene, it would prolly work too, but we have gas readily available in bulk tank beside diesel tanks so gas is our choice.
Is #1 diesel fuel not available in areas like that in winter ..? That would save all the hassle.
I would just be concerned about o-rings and other soft seal material in the fuel system. Some of it is buried deep in the engine and expensive labor wise to replace. The old indirect injected Fords used to say 1/3 gasoline was OK if the fuel somehow got mixed but they did not recommend it either. My advice would be to do anything but messing with the fuel in the engine. Glow plugs, UVC harness, fuel bowl heater, air intake heater, make sure they all work as designed, tarp the truck and put a salamander under it, use a block heater and generator, even leave it running or put on one of those auto-starter-keep warm doodads, whatever you can think of to make it start. I just know that I would hate to be digging into the injectors come spring if they start to leak, if I could have done it another way. Kind of like putting on chains when you are not sure if you really had to, beats shoveling yourself out of the ditch if you didn't.
Birken Vogt, I do agree with you for the most part, but those of us that live where it can be below 0 for weeks at a time, sometimes mixing fuel is our best prevention. A few winters back I had a real pain in the___ time messing with a gel'd line on my SS, high temp was 5 plus there was a wonderful breeze, took 3 days to get it running. I'd much rather put an additive in then go through that crap again. I do not see a problem with additives as long as they're not over done, much like beer
Nige, #1 fuel is available, and most distributors will begin blending #1 and #2 when they think that it will get cold, the problem is in occasions like right now where the temperature has dropped from about freezing to well below zero in a day we often get caught with our knickers down. Personally, when I have had to run in 20 below zero conditions or worse I just run straight #1. Fortunately we typically don't get that cold for long periods of time in my location. We use additives such as Howes fuel conditioner to help drop the waxing point of fuel when we do not have an adequate blend of #1, and this usually gets us by. Perhaps the proper amount ** gas will accomplish the same thing, but as Birken suggested, I am leary of the potential related repair costs. We actually run a small amount of additive year round for the sake of lubricity in our ULSD (ultra low sulfur) diesel. In a gell up situation it would sure be worth adding a bit of gas if that would dissipate the wax for an emergency fix, and if the proper dilution resulted in the same fuel properties as #1 fuel it sure would be a less expensive solution. I am hoping for a definetive answer in this thread. Evidently many people get by just fine mixing gas, but I know how my luck is.
First off, I don't even know what material the orings in a 7.3 Powerstroke are. Maybe they can handle gas just fine. If I knew they could, I would not have much problem with gas in the fuel. It is fear of the unknown that is gnawing at me. It depends on the engine type, what you are going to do to it to make it run. Also, it depends on how much you care about the truck. Most of the 7.3s I see any more are pretty much absolute beaters so who cares, really? Only the owner can decide.
Personally my experience of Powerstrokes is that they make good boat anchors and not much else. The person who invented that injection system should have been flogged to death with one of the injectors IMHO.
I put 300,000 on a 95 7.3 with no injector problems whatsoever. Got good at changing glow plugs and cam sensors though. The 6.0's certainly had/have injector issues though. No problems as of yet with my 6.4.
They go fine when you take it easy and use them like a normal pickup and don't mess with the motor. But I agree completely, HEUI was the start of Caterpillar inventing ridiculous Rube Goldberg contraptions as solutions to problems other manufacturers solved much more simply, which eventually led to their failure in and exit from the truck engine market.
I have had the "pleasure" of feeding a 6.4 new parts more than I dare total. Biggest money pit that has haunted me in a long time. It is completely bone stock and does not get abused. It pulls less than 12k loads quite a bit, and has given me nothing but headaches. Blew the head gasket at 95k. Left me stranded in the middle of town for a faulty sensor. Currently has possible cracked egr coolers that I had to put a gallon and a half of antifreeze in it to get the heater working. Dealer can't find any leaks, but has a dried puddle under the vertical cooler. Coming home with it on a four-hour drive in 17F weather, half way home, it would not go over 65 on the interstate. Empty. With winter mix fuel. I am not a small guy, so I went with this truck after the Duramax. Great for cab space. Have not found much else that has been a perk. I am thinking about seeing what I can get for a trade in for a 6.7. Almost afraid to try one, but I have not heard any negative feedback on the in-house engine...
I have said this before: why even buy a diesel pickup or light-medium now? The fuel economy perk is gone for the most part. The initial and ongoing expenses are still there. Gas motors are pretty simple these days. Diesels are not simple at all. A trip to the repair shop once these get out of warranty is going to be astronomical. They probably won't fix it right anyway since they can't seem to fix them under warranty. Save your money and headaches.
Towing power.
I guess that depends on the application. But not so many years ago 235 horsepower was fine, and lots of guys still do it. Now these new engines have 400 hp or more. What does that get you? On normal roads it gets you nothing. Only uphill does it matter. What percent of your trip is up a steep hill? How much time does it really save you? And since this is H EF, why are you using a pickup to tow with anyway? That is what a semi is for. Just saying....
My cost per mile for the lowboy this year is $1.58, the pickup is $.257. We pull our skid steer grossing 30,000lbs. with the pick up, in the mountains. The new pickups perform tasks that I would'nt even dream of doing 20 years ago, and yes, they are expensive to maintain but still the most economical solution in my eyes anyway. I do take your point about the new gas engines though, and if it wasn't for the towing ability of the diesels I would probably look at gas more closely. I have an 08 with 178,000 miles on it and thus far the only repair beyond maintenance has been a radiator replacement, which was covered under a recall from Ford. I may be fortunate compared to others, but have had good luck with this one so far. I guess we have strayed from the topic of this thread (seems to be a habit of mine), so I'll quit whilst I am still welcome! By the way Birken, are you familiar with Blodgett forest? I spent my summers there when I was a wee lad.
has any one heard of mixing two cycle oil in diesel fuel to make up for the lack of sulfer in ulsd fuel to aid in fuel lubricity.
I would never try any thing like this unless you dont like your pickup. There are alot of good stuff that you can buy that is proven to work and not cost you down the road. I am not sold on diesel pickups. I have never owned one but i have drove/towed and worked on them. My pencil says it dosent add up for me to own one. I think they have there place if you can trade before the warrenty runs out.
I use hydraulic oil for that reason,got the idea from a fellow who builds fuel injection pumps.
Why not? Two cycle oil is designed to lubricate while suspended in fuel (gas) and then be burned in an internal combustion engine. Sounds good to me if you don't overdo it. Also have heard of truck fleets dumping waste oil in the fuel tanks to increase mileage and get rid of the waste for free. Haven't had the nerve to try that one yet.
I use waste oil in all my diesels, AFTER it's been filtered. I'll mix about 10% that's all I care to do, heard of others mixing much stronger, up to 50%. I've been doing this for years with not one issue in any of my machines(trucks, tractors, dozers, ex's, ss's). The best anti gel I've found is the "Howes diesel lubricate" from tractor supply, I believe one bottle treats 300 gals. and cost around $15.00. I've tried 911 and some others, all I can say about those products is I'll never waste my money on them again.
My dad allways mixed gas with fuel in winter,1 gal. of gas to 10 gal. of fuel. Never any problems getting our equipment running. Hope this helps
We have engines that use a system called ORS (Oil Renewal System). Basically a small percentage of the engine oil is injected continuously (via a filter) into the fuel return line and thus to the tank. The oil then gets burned with the fuel. Every time the machine is filled with fuel the engine oil level has to be topped off but the oil itself is never changed (because effectively it's being changed on a permanent basis), only the filters. Bad news, the system is not legal in the US..........
It used to be legal, I saw the brochure. I never saw one that had it, though. I am sure it would not work with modern DPFs anyway. What you describe is what they called the "burn only" system. They also had a system that had a separate clean oil reservoir under the hood that kept the engine topped up automatically.
We have a lot of diesel equipment and having just gone thru an early -25 F spell only had problems with couple machines that had too much water in their separator that didn't get drained. We specify our fuel to convert to cold weather in early October and test the heck out of it (particulate and Cold Filter Plug Point). We are getting pretty good fuel from our current vendor, previous vendor was real spotty- go with a large manufacturer, fuel is too complicated now adays with Ultra Low Sulfer fuel. We run straight #2 year round with it maximized out with additives during the winter (fuel will only hold so many additives). We found #1 was detrimental because when you get #1 the fuel comes without additives in it, this in turn dilutes what you got and actually raises the cold filter plug point of the fuel. We keep some other additive on hand that has Isopropyl alcohol in it to melt and suspend water if that happens to get in the fuel and freeze in the filter. Gasoline in the diesel is extremely dangerous especially in newer tier 2-4 engines. Injection pressures of this fuel are in the range of 22-30k psi. At those pressures the gasoline will have no lubricity at all and do quite a bit of damage to your injectors. Also, the addives in gasoline do not get along with the additives in diesel so you could have a real problem. You also run a real risk of getting a runaway engine (the gasoline ignites due to heat- hot cylinder and engine parts, the diesel ignites due to pressure) you can either melt the engine or cause a pretty good fire. Diesels nowadays are not diesels of even 5 years ago. tests performed: CFPP of untreated diesel -22 deg F treated with of the shelf additives changed it to -28 to -30F treated from fuel supplier with best additive mix we can buy -35 to -40. This is a modified CFPP test than the industry standard. Standard test uses a 45 micron filter which hasn't been used in real life in 40 years. Test above was performed with 3 micron Cat fuel filter element material, changes the readings about 8-10 degrees and is closer to reality.
Welcone to HEF jeffb. What is the CFPP of untreated #1, do you know?
I'll try to find out, everything about diesel varies region to region as well. It should be real low since what makes it #1 (aka kerosene) is lack of waxes in the fuel. The wax also gives you the heat and lubricity and gelling. #1 has very low fuel economy and terrible lubricity. Only thing we use #1 for is diesel fired heaters and emergency fire water generators, they have to start no matter the temp and don't care about wear or economy.
This is why we use only #1 when it gets real cold. The economy of a machine running vs. the whole crew trying to get it running makes gallons per hour burned pretty trivial. I am interested in your test results, and wonder about adding howes to #1 just for better lubricity. I also am a bit puzzled about your findings that the CFPP can be dimished by adding #1. One may be diluting the additives, but adding fuel with a lower CFPP. I'm not disputing your findings but I don't understand how this works.
I hear your pain, anytime we have fuel cold weather problems I have a lot of people asking what I did to screw up the diesel. It didn't make sense to me either, but up to about 5% #1 has marginal benefit, over that it goes down. The explanation we were able to determine from that was the additives in the #2 require a certain treat rate for it to work, you add 20-30% non treated fuel, then the additives that are left in the #2 are not enough once they have been diluted by the #1. It wouldn't be the case if you were able to increase to dosage in the #2 when adding #1, but that is not possible from the fuel depot here- treat rate into #2 is electronically controlled and mixed inline as it is loaded into the tanker truck, #1 system doesn't even have a treat system on it. Again, that is specific to our area, you may find a fuel supplier that treats both. Usually they don't treat the #1 because it doesn't need it by itself, it is the dilution that messes it up. have to have so many PPM of additive in the #2 to do anything. The performance of the #2 to treatment is totally dependent on the crude they use. Oil sands crude and a lot of the crude that comes from Canada is refined around here and it already performs very well in cold weather by itself, hence the untreated #2 having CFPP down to -22, most diesel is single digits. Our cloud point is even in the -7 deg F range. When the refinery gets crude from other sources, that changes, it also changes how well it blends with the additives. Some refineries around here have to mix up to 50% #1 in the refining process to even use it in the cold weather. Other times the refined #2 will not blend with the additives and the additives will fall out of solution and plug stuff up themselves. If you don't buy diesel in tens of thousands of gallons a day, it is really hard to find out what the particular specs are. Most fuel stations pull from the lowest bidder, some of the brand named ones control their supplies a little better and keep the supply in-house.
Used oil added to the fuel on a Tier 3 or Tier 4 engine will poison the after treatment system and make it not work, not covered under warranty because that is the reason for the ULSD to start with. Hopefully you are doing that to an older diesel engine.
Thanks for the reply Jeff, I have learned something today (besides sit by the fire when it get's below -20 !
very informative thanks alot being in ga. i hope i never have to put it to use "unless we have another ice age" but you never know what tomorrow might bring :notworthy