Hi everyone, I just bought a 1992 Genie S-60. I suspect I'll be on this board a lot as this is a project machine. Yeah, I know I'm rolling the dice too. lol I still have to have it shipped home. It has the Ford dual fuel engine in it etc. Most of the issues appear to be the controls at the basket as of right now. They have the engine governor unhooked right now for some reason so it won't idle up etc. So for now, I know I need a new muffler. Does anyone know a good place to buy Ford Industrial Engine Parts? Can I dig and utilize the Ford dealer? or maybe Napa? I'm basically missing the tube off the main portion of the muffler etc. Also, one of the cables is broke/unhooked inside the boom. I was told the boom has to come apart for this? I would like to hear about any common problems with these if anyone has anything to share. I read about the duel fuel toggle switches going bad? Thanks.
Engine parts would have to come from Ford Industrial, most parts stores like NAPA don't have application look up for Ford Industrial. The biggest problem, or most annoying, and expensive as well, is alcohol gas clogging the Zenith carburetor, and the dang things are expensive to replace. But the rest of the machine is pretty straightforward and well built. If you have one of the extend or retract cables broken, you will have to pull boom apart to fix that.
S60 Thanks for the reply Willie. I'll have to look around the internet for the Ford Industrial parts. I'm not sure if they even exist anymore? This is why I asked. Yes, one of the extend/retract cables is broke/came off? I didn't look at it that close yet. How bad of a job is taking apart the boom? I have access to a tractor with a loader bucket etc.
Haven't pulled the boom on a Genie for some time so I don't remember any quirks, but don't recall being that bad either. Worst thing about pulling boom on any aerial lift is the basket, makes it awkward with basket attached. If you can remove the basket the job is much easier. I've purchased Ford parts from M&I Equipment in Mobile Alabama, but I'm certain there's someone a bit closer to you as there are tons of Ford industrial engines out there.
S60 I know Ford sold off their Power Products Operation to an outfit in Adrian, Michigan. After that it got relocated again. I'll keep M&I Equipment's number until I find somewhere closer. Thanks for the tip on removing the basket first. Does the harness have to be cut? or is there quick disconnects for the harness when removing the basket?
I can't remember if Genie used modular plug connections for harness at platform, that would be nice. If they don't, what I typically do on JLG machines is open the platform box and cut all the wires about 4 to 6 inches from termination. That way when I go to reconnect wires, I'll start with the first terminal, see which color wire is connected to it, let's say it's a black wire, find the black wire in the harness cable, strip it, fit a terminal, remove the cut wire connected to strip, and install the black harness wire with new terminal, move to next wire on #2.
I have been doing some web searching to find some info on your genie rebuild. I think that engine might be a Ford VSG411 series. I did some searching in JLG and Terex equipment in the early 1990's and I come up with that engine used in many applications. I was curious about the gas governor system and found they used the electric solenoid with cable linkage to the carb instead of the belt driven governor system my AC generator has. My NAPA shop has access to many industrial engine parts. They rebuild 2 stroke GM diesels, cat, cummings, and others. Will see what info he has on the ford industrial line. Have been searching ebay manuals for you. I was lucky and found a JLG LRG-425 EFI diagnostic service manual , same as used in my Genie s-65. I quickly learned, part # 12345, company A $150.00, company B $100.00, NAPA, Autozone, $45.00. There is a good place in Northern Ohio that rebuilds joy sticks and electric controls and is a very helpful supplier. Let us know what the Ford engine model number is and will see what we can find. Zenith carb parts, Yesterdays Tractors, a Zenith store on that site, many rebuild kits and old timer info. Bob Ohio
Did a little more searching Ford Lsg 423 engines, used in genies up to 1995 It is an industrial version of the Ford pinto engine. Bob
S60 Thanks Bob for your reply. For some reason your reply did not link to my email and this is the first time I've logged back in etc. I just got the unit off loaded at my farm on the 26th. I had to drive 2 hours north and then turn around and follow the unit back as the truck driver hauled it. I had a chance to look the thing over a little bit and even run it. Although I did not take it up very high. So far, the biggest show stopper I have is one of the cables in the boom has either broke or unbolted itself. So I'm trying to find some material on how to properly take the boom apart to repair/replace this cable. I'm surprised on how much is not out there. I did find the manuals off the Genie website but they don't detail this repair that I need done. The other major issue I have is the governor is unhooked. So I have to find out why this is and hook it back up to see if it works etc. I have the LSG 423 engine. I did find some tune up parts at the local autoparts store (plugs/oil/filter). It does have a zenith carburetor. One other thing it has is welding cable being used as battery cables. I've tried this before on my old Farmall MTA and I never got a good charge back to the battery. One other issue I have is the muffer. I'm basically missing everything after the muffler. Its rotted out around the discharge side. There's enough metal to weld a new plate on and pipe it out of the engine compartment. The manual shows spark arrestor after the muffler??? Thats it for right now. lol. As if that isn't enough.
Certain Ford car dealers also have the rights to the industrial side. Our local dealer can get just about anything for a ford industrial, if not try a Sterling dealer. They also have ford industrial parts...... if there are any dealers left. I dont think there is a quick connect on the basket on your machine, ours dont have any. With that said, you will have to remove the cable from the upper controls. Willie had a good idea in cutting it back a bit from the connections to keep track of everything. Other than that its not too difficult to remove the boom sections. My experience is that if you have another guy to keep the hoses and power cables clear you have it made. The hardest part is re-wiring everything when you are done. I will say that if you have access to a forklift that will make this alot easier for you! Im no mechanic but i have never seem a boom cable break on one of these machines, is that typical? It makes me think maybe there is something going on inside the booms?
I'm looking at the parts manual for S60/65 and it doesn't use extend retract cables, uses dual extend cylinder. Just what is it that the boom extend/retract is doing. And not real sure about your throttle problem, but I'm thinking several of the S60 models used a Zenith carb with a throttle plate actuator servo, round blue thing attached to throttle shaft on bottom of carb. The servo gets input from a black control box module inside the lower control box.
The governor problem Found a post on this forum Aug 2010 that Wille had with a person on a JLG 40ft that had the LSG 243 engine and a governor problem. You will probably find it is wired about the same way the JLG is. I found it during a goggle search of Ford lsg 243 engines. Muffler, can be patched, or an auto muffler and if you want it, add on a spark arrestor. Will check back tomorrow, have an errand to do. Bob
I'm just not certain about the Genie S60 HD21A, what various methods of throttle control they used. Most JLG machines, aside from newer ones, used a Precision Governor system with linkage from an actuator. I recall some Genie lifts used this type system, but have also seen them use the Zenith carb with attached throttle control servo.
All, As far as the extend/retract cable. The only thing I can see at this point is that where it normally is bolted up towards the platform, there is nothing but an empty hole which leads me to believe it may have vibrated loose? I think the newer machines use the dual cylinder which eliminated the cables. My machine is 1992 vintage so I have them. Aside from unhooking the cables/controls at the platform, I'm assuming I extend this boom out on a horizontal as far as it will go? Then remove each section as I go along? What's holding them together? Or what has to be removed? for them to come apart? I have access to a John Deere loader so that should handle the weight of each section without any problems. Willie I have the Precision governor set up on mine. There's some wires unhooked that I have to figure out. Can these units be bench tested? Here's a few pictures if I can get them to load.
Well M1687, if you're not in a big hurry to get this done, I'll see if I can offer some input as you go along. First i gotta find a diagram that shows extend/retract cables on one of those. Yep, that is a Precision Governor actuator for throttle control. It's controlled by a separate control box. I'm not certain, but looking at your pics, this may be the control box for the actuator Can you provide machine serial number so I can see if I can come up with some proper diagrams?
Willie, My serial number is right on the machine in the above photo. Its number 113. So the full number is 92-113. The box you circled does say Precision governor on it. As I mentioned, I don't have any experience with these. I have two wires missing off the other box near the engine and there is one wire off the diaphram that is right next to the aluminum box also. The other thing that is odd is that there is a relay just hanging off by itself with some wires being ran to it near the bottom left of the box you circled. I'll have to get some better pictures. I'm not in any hurry. My goal is to have a safe running machine by March or April. I'm just not the type that dives into anything only to ruin parts in the process. I used to be like that. lol Thanks. Jason
Here's a picture of the wire not hooked up near the diaphram. Here's the two on the actuator that are not hooked up. One I believe is hot.
Here is a Genie s-40 manual I found the has the lsg 243 engine. I had it saved for future reference problems. It shows the governor system that uses straight steel linkage to the carb throttle control. It is a big file. You want to look at section 7 page 19 for the picture. http://www.bigbooms.com/documents/Service Genie S40 1173.pdf I have also found in another manual, the governor that uses the flexible cable to the carb which comes from a small box located near the carb. Will have to research for it. Looks like you have a project. Bob
Ignore my post #18 Willie has that figured out. There are wiring diagrams in the link, problably the same as the S-60 manual.
Okay to help a little off the top of my head. The unsecured wire goes to the center terminal of the round disc. That is the electrical switch for the propane that is controlled by the vacuum diapham. If the machine is running on gas then this wiring is not needed at this time. This would be used to have the machine run on propane. The wiring to the throttle control is right there and should be hooked up to the conmtroler. IIRC the one is always hot and the E 301 precision governer controler(probably) which is circled on the back fire wall of the engine compartment is what controls this provides the ground to the actuator. I would say that it was probably unhooked because either A. the controler was not set right and the engine was surging or B. the controller itself went bad and was not controlling the engine. Hook the two wires back up and let us know what the controller does. I will have to dig out my old school manual to scan in the setting procedures for setting the old precision gov. It has been a couple years since I have played with them. JJ
I've been busy with other stuff tonight, prolly will be tomorrow night as well. M1687, gonna take a while for us to sort through your various issues, that's why I said "if you're not in a big hurry". I found the correct parts manual for your machine to view the boom cables and how to proceed with boom removal. But having problems locating correct service manual because s/n doesn't seem to be listed on manual. Can you give me the part # for the correct service manual, it has the wiring schematics in it. And for the precision governor controller, the black box, it would help if we knew what model it is. There should be a model number, E-201, E-301, etc, on the box. If you don't see it on the box, remove the back panel of the control box and you'll find the model number printed somewhere on the circuit board inside.
Thanks Hardline for the input. I spent some more time today under the hood of this thing. The wire for the vacuum diaphram could get mounted on the center post as you indicated. The problem is that the wire that is there is only about 6-7 inches long and isn't connected to anything on the other end? Looks like I'll have to study the wiring diagram. Another new problem I have is the battery!!! As simple as it sounds I need to hear from all of you on this one. The Genie service manual calls for one 12v Group 31 1000 CCA battery with a reserve capacity of 200 minutes. The parts manual indicates (2) 12v 900 CCA batteries. I had already bought two Group 34 batteries with an 800 CCA. I was going to wire them in a parallel for extra reserve. I'm assuming this thing isn't a 24v otherwise I would have to wire them in a series? The original battery hold downs tells me I need two. The service manual says one? Whats everyone else doing? Jason
Thanks Willie. I appreciate all the advice and input. Beggars can't be choosy either. lol. I enjoy the new challenges and learning about things. When it becomes a pain is when you're under the gun to get something running. Luckily thats not the case right now. The service manual I have is part number: 34476. I'll check to see which controller I have tomorrow.
Controller Willie, I have controller E-211. Jason
Jason Here is a good source for electrical components and rebuild if you ever have to replace some electrical parts. Have seen this name come up several times on this site and have done business with him. Very helpful person. Located in NW Ohio. https://www.hindleyelectronics.com/ My Genie is a 12VDC system, came with the big battery. When you get all the bugs out and trust it to get you up and down, the big battery would be a good insurance investment. Bob Chillicothe
I certainly understand having a good battery. I just can't understand why it originally came with two and one of the manuals calles for one? I think I'm going to go with two and run them in a parallel and go from there. I'll save the hindley site. Do they bench test controllers/actuators?
A single group 24 or group 78 battery would crank a Ford engine just fine. Sometimes you'll find one or two batteries to crank diesel engines, but that Ford doesn't really require two batteries, it's no different than a 4 cylinder car engine in that respect. Hindley can test controllers, I've been using them for aerial parts since back in the 80's.
M1687, are you certain we're looking at correct service manual? The schematics in that manual show a precision governor controller that has eight terminals, which should be an E-301. The E-211 only has six terminals. If your Ford engine has distributorless ignition, I'm thinking it would use an E-301 controller.
Willie, I can't verify that I have the correct manual. I found them off the genie website. Currently, my machine does have an E-211 controller which has 6 terminals. 5 are only being utilized at this time (1-5). The engine I have also has a distributor too. Once again, I'm not sure of the history of this machine or if it has been modified in any way. My goal with any machine that I buy is to put it back to original if it makes sense.
Then that's the Ford Pinto engine. E-211 may be correct, but that's not the correct service manual. #34476 is for a machine that has Ford DIS ignition.
Thanks for the heads up. Looks like I need to find the right manual before I dig any deeper.
That's the problem I was having, couldn't find the service manual by s/n. With a s/n of 113, it's likely it did have the Pinto engine with distributor ignition. You need to find the service manual that shows distributor ignition in the wiring schematics.
If you have distributor ignition, then you have the LRG423 engine. The VSG411 and LSG423 have DIS ignition systems. Service manual #29751 shows S-60 with LRG423, I'd wager that's the correct service manual and schematics for you machine s/n.
Willie/All, I was running this thing the other day and it quit on me. I thought I had ran out of fuel. I decided to change out the rubber fuel line before I refueled and now I can't get it to start after adding new fuel. Here's my current question: Part Number 29751 Service Manual: Chart 2A on page 79 Section 5-5. I have new batteries, so following the diagram in reference to the coolant indicator light they want me to remove the white/blk wire and need to know if the light goes out? Is this for while cranking or while the key is in the on position? Also, FYI. I have no spark and smell fuel after cranking for a little bit.
The high engine temp light does not come on with ignition in on position and engine not running. If the temp light comes on when engine is either cranking or running, either the engine is hot or the temp switch gauge is faulty. In either case, temp light on will only allow engine to run when cranking, once start button is released, temp light circuit will kill engine. If temp light is not on with engine cranking or running, then that's not your problem. You need to put a test light on positive terminal of ignition coil, crank engine and see if test light illuminates. If it does, connect test light to red wire on ignition module, crank engine and see if light illuminates. If test light illuminates in either of these cases, then you have power to ignition coil and ignition module. If no power in either of these, you need to go through your wiring diagram and test circuits related to ignition and engine running.
Willie, Right now with the key in the on position, both red indicator lights are on for the low oil/high temp. but when I crank the engine, both lights go off. I wanted to follow the flow chart to make sure I wasn't dealing with a bad low oil or high temp gauge/switch which would kill the engine but got confused in relation to cranking vs. key on. Thanks for your help, I'll check the coil/ignition module circuits tomorrow and go from there.
Ok, I'll study the schematics a bit more, but I'm thinking you should not see hi temp light when cranking, will have to study and verify. Does your machine have the proper switch gauge mounted on it? It's an odd looking temp gauge that has an adjustable temp sensor contact built into it.
Willie, Both of the switch gauges appear to be original. They have non adjustable limits on them in their respective positions. I worked on this machine again this morning. With my test light I had power to both the battery side of the coil and on the red wire off one of the pigtails on the ignition module. One thing I noticed is that the light was not as bright on the coil. It was not faint or dim but just not as bright as the ignition module I tested. I tried to rule out a bad test ground by doing it again but it appears to be the same. I'm not sure if this means anything or not? I did crank the engine again and tested to see if I had anything coming off the coil to the distributor and I had nothing. So I'm assuming I have a bad coil? Or should I investigate the not so bright test light? Another thing I noticed on this machine is that you have to turn the key to off position and then to on in order to allow for you to crank the engine again. I'm assuming this is designed this way? Also, do you know any place that carries parts for this Zenith carb? I need some parts for the choke asy. Thanks, Jason
Here's a simple test for an ignition coil. http://www.international-auto.com/fiat-lancia-electrical-system/how-to-test-an-ignition-coil.cfm As for the Zenith carb, the Ford Industrial store shut down in my town years ago, since then I've been purchasing Ford Industrial parts, including Zenith carbs used on them from M&I engine company in Daphne Alabama. You might do some internet searching and may find a closer supplier to you, but here's their phone number if you want to give them a call. 800-633-1834
Willie, Thank you for the link. I tested my coil and it appears to be bad based on the information on this website. The resistance on my two side terminals was .60 and the side terminal to high tension terminal came in at 9000 ohms. I'm suppose to pick up a new coil tomorrow but won't be able to reinstall until Friday morning.
Well, good thing about those type ignition coils, even if it turns out coil wasn't problem, it didn't cost you a pile of money to find out.
Well, I picked up a new coil and decided to search around for a new ignition module while I was at it. Seems like a 1980 Ford Pinto will get you some parts you need for this machine at the local auto parts stores. I just hooked everything back up this morning and it fired right up. I'm not so sure my coil was the issue after seeing some of the other specs for coils on the internet. I could never find the actual ohms resistance spec for this application but I didn't look too hard. I took the ignition module and had it tested and it turned out to be bad. As I mention a 1980 Ford Pinto with a manual trans found me the replacement I needed. After getting all excited about my machine runnning again, I went to turn the key off and nothing happened. I then hit the stop button and nothing happened. The engine kept running. lol I'm not sure if the 20 some degree/blowing snow had anything to do with it. I eventually kept playing around with the stop buttons on both the platform and the basket and it eventually shut off. Looks like I have another new project to investigate? lol
Jason I have your machine schematic bookmarked, but I havent looked at it yet. The shut off problem could be a relay sticking problem. I don't know if the shut offs control an ignition relay circuit which would close a relay which puts voltage to the coil, ect. I had a sticky burnt relay contact on the relay that controlled the electric fuel pump , didn't know it until I tried to start it a week later and the battery was dead. Disconnected battery cables, recharged, as I replaced cables , ignition off, I could something click and a pump run. The machine would start up, run perfect, shut off. Take cable off , would hear a click, back on , pump would cycle. Also noticed with engine in off mode , electric water temperature gauge was reading 110 degrees. Disconnect battery, Gauge would go to cold side against pin, reconnect, 110 degrees. Got the schematics out, found one of the 4 small relays controlled the fuel pump relay which fed 12volts to energize the fuel pump relay. Took a screw driver and tapped on the relay case, reconnected battery cable, no click, no pump running, water temp cold. Restarted engine, everything fine, shut off, water temp back to resting position. Ordered 4 new relays and now have 3 used spares. Something for you to think about. Good evening to stay inside and read, 15 degrees and about 2 in of snow. Bob Chillicothe
Thanks for the input Bob. I didn't have a lot of time today to investigate. I was just thrilled to get it running again then I had to be somewhere else. It seems like the few times I started and tried to stop it there was a long delay before it actually killed the engine. So a sticky relay sounds like a good candidate. I'm wondering if this problem has anything to do with my faulty ignition module (electrical surge?). I'll have to look at the diagram too. I don't have an electrical fuel pump on this model just the old fashion kind that runs off a cam etc. I'm sure it was a challenge for you to find that bad relay. Looks like winter showed up again for us northerners. I have to do some rearranging of my pole barn to get this lift inside. The wind is always the worst part of winter.
Could be power relay 1 (PR1) sticking, or time delay relay 2 (TR2) is faulty. Try switch PR1 with PR3 (aux power relay), and switch TR2 with TR1 (traction delay relay) and see if it does it again.
I'm watching very intently. New here to the site and for some reason i cant post a new thread so dont think i'm hijacking this one. I've also got an S 60 with issues. It's a model 2017. Been told it's a 97 model. I do have questions as i'm down till i get her running and it's on the job. First post so i may be limited on starting a thread until my post count goes up. Here in West Plains, Mo if anyone is close and has a clue on these units. Email addy is [email protected] . Thanks guys. Great siet. Small Block
Hello Come right on in and ask some questions. Mine is a 1999 S-65, ran for a year before an engine sensor problem made it sick. Solved the problem and with the projected warm weather coming, might do some this old house work this week. I live in Southern Ohio. What 's the problem Bob Chillicothe
Welcome to the forum Small Block. You can't start a thread as a probationary member. Once you make 3 posts to forum in any section, except TGIF, your status will be changed to Junior Member and you can start threads.
Willie, I found PR1 and TR2 on the schematic. Where are they located on the machine? Are these the relays on the back side of the engine compartment? Or are they located in the box?
TR1 is located inside the lower control box near the bottom left. TR2 is in the upper left corner of the lower control box. They are flat, square components about an inch and a half square with three or four male spades on them. PR1 is the relay near the center of the relay panel on the engine side of the machine. It will have a Tan #51 wire on it.
Look in your service manual. Page 6-5 shows TR1 and TR2 inside the lower control box. Page 6-6 shows PR1 and PR3 on lower relay panel, I'm guessing in engine compartment. Ahh, it appears Voodoo has beat me to it.
Yes it is in the engine compartment on the relay board. It is the canister type between the Precision Governor and the Voltage Regulator.
Thanks Voodoo and Willie!!!
You may want to check to see if there is still voltage at the Fuel Shut-off Valve when the E-Stops have been turned off. The e-stop will cut power to CR4, removing power to the fuel select switch and therefore the fuel shut-off valve. This is what actually turns off the engine. Starving it of gasoline. As long as there is oil pressure, the ignition circuit will be activated through CR3 and PR1. So PR1 will be activated until CR3 is turned ON by the Ground signal from the Oil Pressure Sending Unit when the engine stops. At that time, CR3's Normally Closed contacts will open to shut off PR1 and kill the Ignition. A characteristic of the Zenith Carburetor back in the day, with this method of shut-down, was the tendency to keep running on. It was caused usually by one of two things: Engine RPM too high at shut-down was one. As the engine rpm begins to drop at shut-down, the vacuum will decrease enough to permit the accelerator pump to unload its gas into the ventura. This will keep the engine running long enough to keep the oil pressure up enough to keep CR3 from opening to shut off PR1. At the same time, the accelerator pump reloads so when the small amount of fuel it pumped into the ventura its last stroke burns off and engine rpm decreases, the accelerator pump will again discharge into the ventura, keeping the engine alive. This cycle can repeat itself until the carburetor bowl runs dry. With a fast rpm, the oil pressure stays higher longer facilitating this run-on. Another issue that contributes to the run-on is the spring in the accelerator pump has weakened, allowing for less of a difference in vacuum to cause the accelerator pump to keep the engine alive. Inside the accelerator pump is an aluminum slug about the diameter of a nickel, a spring and a diaphram. Many times, a same diameter flat washer inserted between the slug and cover would assist the spring pressure enough to stop the engine from running on after shut-down. Stretching the spring would also, but only temporarily, achieve the same result. If the washer is too thick, the engine will have difficulty jumping from low to high rpm when the throttle is thrown wide open. This "keep alive" circuit was put on the engines to ensure that all the gas was burned up before shutting down. If not, when restarted, accumulated gas fumes in the exhaust would explode causing a helluva bang. Especially on propane. This was a common occurance on the JLGs and Genies. Genie eliminated it by adding the Ignition Start Module during later production and prior to the introduction of EFI systems. So a long story made short, check to see if the voltage is taken away from the Fuel Shut-off Valve when the e-stops are turned off. It is also possible the fuel shut-off valve is not seating itself completely. Trash, rust, weak spring or deformed seal could cause this.
Just so M1687 isn't left scratching his head, the fuel shut off valve is also commonly called "anti-diesel solenoid" or "anti-diesel valve". On the Genie schematic for his machine, it's called anti-diesel valve.
This is true. Thank you Willie
I know its been a while but life got in the way. I finally got back into this project over the weekend and a little bit today. I have a quick question about the main key switch. Is it designed for the user to be able to start it in the base mode, then be able to switch it over to the platform without it shutting off? If that's the case then I'm ok with the key switch issue. I still have to resolve the e-stops not shutting off the engine. Also, I finally hooked up the Precision Governor wiring which was disabled when I bought the machine. To make a long story short, I almost blew my engine!!! The governor seemed to be working fine until I lowered the main boom then all of a sudden the engine rpm took off WOT. Holy smokes, that was scary!!!! So my next question is do I need to send in both the mechanical governor and the black box? Or just the black box? Bob had found me a good place in Ohio that tests them etc I already know that something is not working in the system etc.
If it jumped up to full throttle then the actuator is probably ok. The test was to put 12 volts across the two wires on the actuator (without the engine running). If it snaps wide open then it is good. Check that it moves smoothly throughout the full range of motion and that the return spring has a healthy pull back. Testing the governor (black-box) is a simple procedure also, if you are willing to take a stab at it.
Enlighten me on what you mean about putting 12v across both terminals. Are you saying to put a jumper wire across the two and run a 12v positive current on either terminal in order to essentially energize the actuator? The ground wire would be to the outside case? When this thing took off it seemed like it was beyond WOT. It was at self destruct throttle. lol Also, how do you test the black box? I think it has 6 terminals and 5 wires being ran into it. I haven't opened it up yet.
Simplified Governor Circuit. Also the way to test the Actuator. Hook up one of the terminals of the Actuator with Positive and tap the Negative on the other terminal. Actuator should stroke wide open smartly and return quickly when a wire is removed. The next couple of posts will be the 211 Governor Installation manual. It should give you the information you need.
Precision Governor 211 Installation and Adjustment View attachment 211A.PDF View attachment 211B.PDF View attachment 211C.PDF View attachment 211D.PDF View attachment 211E.PDF
Precision Governor 211 Installation and Adjustment View attachment 211F.PDF View attachment 211G.PDF View attachment 211H.PDF View attachment 211I.PDF View attachment 211J.PDF
Precision Governor 211 Installation and Adjustment View attachment 211M.PDF View attachment 211L.PDF View attachment 211K.PDF sorry for the book being paged like this.
Thanks for all the information. I like the Diehard battery you put in your diagram. I'll let you know as soon as I get a chance to work on this again.
Hey Voodoo, Here's a short video of my key switch issue. Is this normal? If I start the engine in platform mode and try to switch over to the base it will shut off. Hopefully the video will post correctly. http://youtu.be/FI5NU4BYhjY
nice video..engine sounds great! in the video, it was in ground controls position, you then switched to off. would it eventually shut off in that off position or will it stay running? You then switched it from off to platform controls and it kept running, and when switched back to off, it finally did shut off. Would it have shut off eventually if you would have kept it in the platform position? More importantly, When you turned the switch from platform to the off position and it stopped, if you would have then turned the switch to ground controls, would the engine start if you tried to start it?
I didn't keep the key in the off position long enough to see. I remember on a couple of occassions I had the key in the off position and was hitting the e-stop and it seemed like there was a delay and it eventually turned off. You coached me on what to look for on the e-stop problem. Lately, I've been all talk and no action. I did switch the two relays in the panel and saw no change with the key issue. I was just wondering if my key issue was normal with this post. The answer to your second question. The engine would stay running if I switched it from ground controls to platform and left it in platform mode. Another interesting note is that if the key is in the off position, then none of the controls would work (thats a good thing I hope). The answer to your third question, I'll have to try out to be certain. I believe it will start. One other thing I noticed too is that when the key is in the grounds position and I'm cranking a cold engine and lets say it starts and runs for a few seconds I have to switch the key to off and then back on in order for it to crank again. Another note is that the key switch works with or without the key. So there may be something going on in there? Here's a pic of the two relays I switched. They are the two black ones in the upper and lower left corners. I believe you said they are considered PR1 and TR1.
Those are TR1 and TR2 Time Delay Relays TR1 is a Traction Delay Relay TR2 is a Restart Delay Relay
It takes a moment for the engine to die whether you turn off ignition or if you hit E-stop button. Engine is shut down by anti-diesel solenoid on carb, takes a moment to run out of gas in the carb main jet. On Edit, I viewed the wiring schematic again, seems I was incomplete describing this, Anti-diesel solenoid is controlled by fuel (gas/lp) switch. E stops turn off fuel relay (CR4). This breaks the current going through the fuel select switch to anti-diesel solenoid which stops fuel flow through carb and kills engine.
*This is normal operation. CR1, CR2, CR3, PR5, and PR1 make a latching circuit that provides an anti-restart circuit that is active until the power is cycled when the ground returns from the oil pressure sending unit (oil pressure light lights). edit: oil light lights
All, I tested to see if I had voltage at the anti diesel solenoid which is at the base of the carburetor. What was interesting is that there's constant power to this solenoid. When I hit the e-stop on the ground controls the power cuts out tot he solenoid but the engine doesn't turn off. Same thing if its in platform mode. I also noticed that if either e-stop was pressed, the main key switch wouldn't not shut off the engine too. So I'm assuming this is normal? Also, I'm assuming I need a new solenoid?
will the engine eventually die after the power is removed from the shut-off solenoid? If yes, then the shut-off solenoid is probably ok. This might be a result of the accelerator thing I mentioned a few responses back. If the engine will not eventually shut down when the power is removed from the shut-off solenoid, then yes, the solenoid will likely need replacing. I would remove the wire at the shut-off valve to remove the possibility there might be something else in a circuit causing this issue.
S60 I'll give it another try as far as the time involved to actually shut it off. I would say that I had the e-stop(s) engaged for about 10 seconds with out any results. I remember the issue you mentioned about the engine running on too. Based on the information I found on the oil filter, this machine has only seen 200 hours since 2003. So the carb/solenoid may be gummed up etc. Hopefully I'll get some more time on Sunday to work on this. I'll let you know. Thanks again.
The thing I see so often now days is problems related to the alcohol gas we now use, wreaks havoc on carburetors. If you allow alcohol gas to sit in a carb for extended periods, it doesn't make a varnish like old gas did, rather a white residue, possibly the sugar in the alcohol. Anyway, this makes the plunger in the anti diesel solenoid stick when it's pulled in (run position). When you remove power from solenoid, whether by turn off ignition or by removing wire to test, plunger should release and block fuel flow, engine should run only for a few moments, but so ofter the plunger is stuck from gas residue.
After another long hiatus away from the S-60, I found some time to work on my machine today. I believe I resolved all of my start/stop/estop issues. Instead of just ordering a new anti diesel solenoid, I decided to remove the old one first. When I pulled it out and examined it, there was a little debris in the area where the plunger and the outer body meet. It was also stuck in one position. So I simply pressed the viton tipped plunger back and forth a few times and sprayed it with some carburetor cleaner and reinstalled it. I started the machine back up and let it run for a minute then I pressed the estop and it turned right off instantly. I started the machine in platform mode and tried the estop there also with success too. I also have the key on/off switch working. It's amazing that the engineers that designed this relied on shutting the gas off vs. shutting off the electricity in order to turn the machine off etc. Willie I didn't see much of any white residue so I can't say that the 10% ethanol fuel was the #1 reason, but I'm certain it didn't help. This valve may have stuck simply because of non use etc? Next on the list is the governor/actuator. Voodoo, I printed out the manuals and actuator test you gave me. I'm sure I might have some questions when I get into it. After the governor, I will service the hydraulics. So if anyone has any input, I would appreciate it. I noticed the filters near the resorvoir haven't been changed in a while. Thanks, Jason
The reason they are designed to shut fuel off to kill engine as opposed to turning off ignition power is because idle speed is higher than typically found on engines, that tends to make an engine diesel and keep running when ignition is shut off. Anti-diesel solenoid solves that problem. Yep, that's why that solenoid stuck, I'm convinced it's the alcohol gas and sitting dormant for extended periods. I'm seeing this stuff way more often now than when we simply used unleaded gas.
M1687, hey I sometimes work on a Genie Z-60/34 just like that. If you ever need someone to take a picture of a part or "chinese blueprint" something I could help.
Thanks a lot raistlin. I basically have two more significant repairs on this machine before I can start using it. One if the governor/actuator and also retracting cable for the boom. Still lots of fun left with those. I also want to service the hydraulic system too.
boy! that boom rigging is a big job. Hopefully you can get a helper a decent height hoist and a couple of small wenches/comealongs to get it back together.
Hello Everyone, I'm new to this thread but have been on the 40F forum for years. I have a S-60 2005 and have a problem my service guys can't seem to help with: When I start it from the basket it will start about 6 out of ten times and operate normally but when it doesn’t I can recycle the stop button a few times and it starts but sometimes when it starts it won’t let me engage any of the functions when I depress the foot switch. I’ve tried working the starter switch and foot pedal when it wouldn’t start and nothing works until I recycle the stop button however it may be a coincidence. If it just wouldn’t start that would be easy but the fact it then starts then sometimes won’t function has me perplexed. I have opened every connection cleaned them and put a little dielectric grease on each including the foot switch but no change? I'm wondering if the foot switch which seems to work freely is internally hanging up or it's something completely different? Any help would be appreciated!
Hello Everyone, I'm new to this thread but have been on the 40F forum for years. I have a S-60 2005 and have a problem my service guys can't seem to help with: When I start it from the basket it will start about 6 out of ten times and operate normally but when it doesn’t I can recycle the stop button a few times and it starts but sometimes when it starts it won’t let me engage any of the functions when I depress the foot switch. I’ve tried working the starter switch and foot pedal when it wouldn’t start and nothing works until I recycle the stop button however it may be a coincidence. If it just wouldn’t start that would be easy but the fact it then starts then sometimes won’t function has me perplexed. I have opened every connection cleaned them and put a little dielectric grease on each including the foot switch but no change? I'm wondering if the foot switch which seems to work freely is internally hanging up or it's something completely different? Any help would be appreciated!
Intermittent problems can sometimes be tricky to troubleshoot. What's the machine s/n?
Hey Willie, It is S6005-11510, a 2005. Thanks for any help. I'm ordering a stop button to eliminate that possibility.
One thing I need to clarify, when you say it won't start, do you mean it won't crank? Or, do you mean it will crank but engine won't start running?
Willie, It wouldn't crank, but I figured it out last week and forgot to log back in. The little bank of micro switches part of the stop button we decided to replace. There's three as you know and as we removed them one at a time we checked them with the meter and the third one was intermittent. Bingo! it's been fine ever since.
I've replace piles of those Telemacanique contacts over the years