I have a 1997 Genie S60...2.3 Ford LRG 423 engine. SN# 1749. Hard start/ now no start. Checked fuel coming into carb good. Spark at plugs good. Getting intermittent Tach Light #2 on ignition start module. Just cranks and cranks no start. While i was pulling plugs today to check spark it actually almost started with 1 plug out. Put plug in and eventually it started, its cold out and its definitely cold blooded. Ran it for 10 minutes shut it down, tried to start again no start.
So cold start today started right up, ran 20 minutes shut it down. Tried to start again, no start, after several attempts no start smelling a ton of gas at carb, pulled plug very wet with gas. Have changed plugs, wires and ignition coil. I'm thinking carb problem or automatic choke?????
If that has a ford ecm put the spare one on . If you dont have a spare buy 2 and install one.
Yep, need to know if we're talking carburetor or fuel injected
willie59 Yes it is carburetor Genie part number 72348GT, maybe a Zenith? Old Doug you say ecm are you referring to the 56057GT MODULE,IGNITION/START,12/24V behind the ground control panel? Or is there an ecm some where else?
If it's dual fuel get a propane tank and see if it runs proper on propane, if it does that eliminates the engine module being the problem and you have a problem with gasoline delivery. The ignition module inside the lower control station does control the engine starting, running, and shutting down, but it does not control the engine electronics themselves, that's done by an ignition module typically mounted in the engine compartment, that's the ECM mentioned by old doug.
Thanks Willie I'll try the propane, with further explanation I went to machine and tried to start, it would try to turn over and stop after 2 attempts I pulled the plugs again soaked in gas, blew out cylinders with air and engine turns over freely, checked oil about 1/2" over full line smells of gas. So I have gas passing the carb for sure. I have carb on work bench now going to pull it apart, if I don't find anything what would cause the gas to bypass carb? Like I said earlier it reeks of gas. I've pulled gas line at carb inlet and cranked starter definitely good flow. If it runs on propane you state "you have a problem with gasoline delivery" can you elaborate? I hope not ecm i'm looking at $1700
Just to get this out, I'm not a spark engine specialist even though I've worked on them for over 50 yrs, I actually despise spark engines, too damn many things can make them not work, especially newer electronic ignition engines. But with that said, Zenith carb dumping fuel in the engine, possible causes. Well, it has been a few years since I've worked on those so I'm going on vague memory, but we have to start with the basics. First of all is sticking float needle valve or faulty needle valve. Possibly damaged or bad float. And I seem to recall some of those Zenith carbs had a vacuum controlled accelerator primer pump, can't recall what happens if the diaphragm goes back if it sucks gas into the intake or not. That's a few things to look at. But probably equally as important, the gas. Ethanol gas will murder carburetors unless they're pretty much used daily. If you don't have access to 100% real gas and have to use ethanol gas then always, always use an ethanol fuel treatment.
Thanks Willie carb is on bench doesn't look to bad but going to go through it completely, hopefully that will cure it but to be honest the intermittent spark issues have me really paranoid that the ecm mentioned earlier could be the culprit. first things first need to solve gas in oil issue.
I really hope that carb is good, last time I looked those Zenith carbs are like gold, range of $800 to $1000 bucks.
I bought a brand new Zenith for a JLG and it was junk. I had it running for a short time and next time it wouldn't start. Took the carb apart and the float was dis-integrating and had swelled enough it was rubbing the sides of the float bowl. I had a new float which I put in and that cured that problem but to make it run I had to remove the needle and seat from the old carb and put it into the new. Pretty sad for having paid $800.00 for it but at least the throttle shaft bushings weren't wore out.
Totally agree, I've never been a fan of those carbs, but in that application I don't know of an alternative without making major changes. If you get one that works proper, just keep your fingers crossed and don't use untreated ethanol fuel.
Rebuilt carb today will install tomorrow, still not completely satisfied that auto choke is working properly anyone know how to check it?
It should be closed then as soon as it fires up it should come open about a 1/4 of the way then as it warms up open more till its up to almost operating temp then open fully . If it dosent open some "choke pull off" when it first starts it will flood. You will about need some one starting it and some one watching the choke butterfly.
thanks old Doug thats what I was looking for, it has to eyelets connecting 2 wires to one of the studs on the choke does that seem correct?
i cannot find a wiring diagram for this carb
It should be shut when the engine is cold. One wire is ground and the other should be a hot wire.
You'll be lucky if you can find any tech info for that carb as they're dated now, everything late model is fuel injected. It's been years since I've worked on them but I seem to recall that choke only needed one wire as it was self grounded, one would only have to remove the three screws that secure the heater coil plate and remove it to confirm the terminals for the bi-metal coil, be sure and mark it first before removing it. The two wires connected to the terminal of the choke coil could be one power (ignition) wire and one going to the anti dieseling solenoid at the base of the carb. Again, can't recall for sure, my memory is real vague on those things.
Yes Willie 59 that describes my setup. I have the heater coil inside choke assembly. The only difference is I have 2 ring terminals going to the same post on choke and a separate jumper wire going to the anti dieseling solenoid. So I'm assuming all these wires should show 12 volt when turning ignition key?
Ok, I'm going to step out on a limb here because there's a pile of cobwebs in my head. Maybe, one wire comes to choke coil terminal, ignition wire. Second wire goes to oil pressure switch common terminal, then wire from oil pressure switch normally open terminal goes to anti diesel solenoid. Being dual fuel the second wire from choke coil may go to the vacuum lock switch on the intake manifold before it goes to the oil pressure switch. I'm either gone nuts or this is somewhere in my memory, or something in the ballpark anyway. LoL
This would be very simple if we were standing there looking at it.
Thanks Willie59 that sounds feasible I will be at machine today, I'll chase those wires. Thank you for all your help much appreciated!!!
One wire is hot from ignition and the other goes to the fuel shutoff solenoid. Have you gone on the Genie website and looked at their manuals? There should be wiring schematics there.
I had a similar problem. When trying to start it would flood the engine and then backfire hard enough to blow the muffler. Mine turned out to be the crankshaft sensor. Your engine model maybe different . Mine is distributor less.
So after two months of hard starting and eventually no start and flooding, and lastly gas seeping into crankcase, I changed the plugs, wires and ignition coil, changed fuel and fuel filter and lastly rebuilt the Zenith 33 carb with electric choke. Installed carb today she almost lit on first turn and took right off on second turn. Automatic choke worked perfectly. Right now its running better than ever. Big shout out and thank you to Old Doug and Willie59 your advice was priceless!!!!
Hey everyone, I got a fleet of S60 I just took over. I rebuilt the entire control panel on one. Did all new harnesses and hydraulics in the boom. Also rebuilt the engine. It’s all put together and after calibration of all the joy sticks. It won’t travel forward or reverse unless you hit the override. Then it acts just fine. But I also have the explanation point at the basket controls that stays on but the one at the ground panel doesn’t. Also changed out both the brake and speed solenoids. Not throwing any fault on the board? Any help would be great. I checked and rechecked harnesses to make sure everything is pinned correctly