I guess some of you might remember all of my threads about the stuff Ive been going through, well Ive been hounding this guy at a local mall, it is the 4th or 5th largest in the country, just about doing pot hole work and random odds and ends. Well today I got 2 emails that were bid proposals on 2 separate small projects. The first, which I dont think I will be able to do because I dont have any experience doing curbing, they want to turn a 2 lane entrance into a one lane entrance, extend the existing curb, new pavement markings, top soil, mulch, geo fabric etc. The second which I think I can do is pretty simple, they want to relocate some large signs, about 12 feet high. This involves pouring new foundations, and the signs are pretty heavy, I would need a crane to do it. Im going to find out the exact weight of the signs tomorrow. They are made out of some oversized i beams. But anyway I was excited because being a new business, this is my first real bid Im going to submit, any tips/advice would be welcome.
cya
Good for u, Aliate the sign job should be a good one for u are u going to have to set new anchor bolts in the new foundations for the signs?
yeah new bolts they want 6 inch J bolts or something like that Ill have to look at it again, going to measure up the I beams now.
6" isn't much of a bolt for a sign made with I-beams. Set the bolts in the concrete with a pre-made template. Check the contract doc's carefully and understand the fully.
Yeah I was concerned that they dont want any rebar in the concrete, and I was planning on using a steel template even if it isnt required just so I can adjust the beam to make it plumb. I figured that the I beam and the baseplate are about 1,282lbs, less than I thought.
Aliate, i would be concerned to about the NO rebar in the concrete too, its in a freeze/thaw area. Is it a mass pour or is there a footing a pier ?? either way i would make sure there is rebar in it. Just to CYA
whats cya? oh cover your ass lol, yeah Im going to talk to them about that today before I submit the bid.
Congrats Aliate! I know from you postings you have been working hard at getting the business up and running. Good to hear you can at least get the experience to bid it. I would suggest a few things. 1) If you have any questions on methods, post them on here or google them and see whats out there. You would be shocked at what you can find on how to do things. 2) Don't be scared of a curb job. Curbing is easy. You said you father used to be a site contractor and he might have some advice for you. You always have to do things a first time once! 3) I don't know what kind of format they gave you for the bid but if they did not give much of a format, make sure you make it look professional. You don't want to not get the job because they don't think you can do the work based on how the bid looks. Good luck. Keep us posted!
They sent me like a 15 page form, 12 or so pages of which I have to fill out, it says that the proposals must be submitted on the proposal form, other formats will not be accepted. Im going to try to bid this really low because right now I have no work at all and Ive been sitting home for about 2 weeks. Total work includes 4 new 4.5'x2.5'x12" foundations with 6" gravel sub base and 3000psi concrete, removing the 4 old foundations, moving 6 signs (4 being relocated to new foundations, 1 being relocated to an existing sign pole, 1 remove only), the sign posts are made of 10' I beams with a steel plate weighing about 1500lbs each (total overkill), the signs are probably about 40lbs each. Im going to try to bid this around $3,000 - $4,000 and a total of 4 days work, Ive never bid anything so I have no idea what the other guys are going to bid. To me this is a pretty good deal, but what would you bid this at if you were looking to win this?
Good advice, NEConstruction. I would still throw a price at them for the entrance lane sub out what u can't or don't want to do u could sub out a good part of the job do what u can do and still get a percent of the subs work. I sub out what i can't do as cost effect as someone else can. I am getting a brick paving job bid ready now and i am bidding the removal, subbase/compacting and clean-up and have a couple of brick paving guys getting me prices on doing the pavers i am going to add 10% to cover there work under my bid.
Diggerdave has a good point there Aliate. You can always sub out specialty work but even more importantly his point about subbing it if they can be more productive than you is important. You should always be prepared to let someone else do the work if they can do it cheaper than you. You will just be able to mark up their number and supervise them as they work. With something like curbing, you could sub it out on a few jobs until you figure out how to do it yourself as fast as them and then bid it and stop subbing it out.
can you have competitive bids though if you are subbing something out? I guess that if someone can do the work more cost and time effective than you can, then the answer is yes heh. Another question, they are asking for a lot of information on the company, detailed financial statements and such, it seems like this bid form is tailored to include larger companies, do they just expect you to put N/A on those questions or something?
You can be VERY competitive if you sub stuff out. I know GC's who barely do any work themselves and are just very good at managing quality sub contractors. You usually take a lower mark up but it is less work for you. I would not just put N/A on those sections as it could get your bid thrown out. I would ask your contact about the information they are asking for if you do not have it. Tell them what you have and explain your situation. Do you have financial statements and the other things they are looking for? As you have come to find out, it is tough being a new business out there and sometimes they expect you to act like you have been in business for years with the things they ask for. See what your contact has to say when you tell him that you are a new, small, independently owned business and do not have financial statements to give him yet.
Alright Ill give them a call now
If need be, you can find a small cpa to write up a little statement for a hundred bucks or so just to give them something to look at... usually they ask the question, but never actually request the documents. My experience has been that work like you are describing will not go cheap, as most companies are not geared specifically for "sign relocation" thus will require more $ to make it worth your time. I would go for the entrance work aswell, just sub it to a striping sub and a curbing sub, self perform the rest yourself, and watch and learn from your subs. The beauty of being in "business" is that you don't have to know everything yourself as long as you know someone who does. IE a heavy/civil contractor doesn't have to have an engineering degree... he can just hire one.
I ended up bidding about $6,000 and it would take me about 5 working days, though I included the cure time of the concrete in the amount of days required to complete the project, which was about 21 days. They called me on friday asking if I could do the job in less time, so Im going to use a different mix of concrete that will cure to 3000psi in 5-7 days though more expensive. Do you guys think I underbid this project? I was thinking I was bidding high compared to some of the residential estimates Ive been doing. By them calling me back Im assuming I have the low bid.
Hey, Aliate that sound good that they called u back, hope it works out well for U
do you think I underbid? and thanks, Ill keep you updated.
In todays market i don't think u underbid it IF the job go good, I think u said u are going to rent some equipment I would shop the rental or hire someone with the equipment if u hire a man/machine he will have done some job like yours before and may have some good ideas that could save u sometime on the job. and i would shop the concrete too..
I think you hit the nail on the head... I would have been between 7-10k for that job, but with your low overhead you should be able to clean up on this one. Just watch every penny... it goes faster than you think.:Banghead Remember, though it won't feel like you are working your butt off... if you can sub it all out, and make 1-2 k on it without lifting a finger, you will end up ahead in the end. Just nail everyone to the wall on their prices, and don't budge unless you have it in the budget. As far as the deadline, just make it happen, retail people don't understand the term "realistic timeline". They probably have some "landlord's responsibility" to keep the signs up for their tenants which makes this little operation a touchy one.
Thanks for the advice, yeah the signs are directions to different areas of the mall, and there was a DOT complaint about line of sight issues after a few car accidents. If I had money to sub it out I would, but I would also like to give my own guys some work, I havnt had anything to do for the past 3 weeks or so.
your mall job hi aliate, you said it was a big mall, if it is the palisades mall, I worked there also. Its all rock there too, watch out for that my friend.
hah yeah, dont worry Ive had some serious run ins with rock Im not worried, what did you do for them and how are they to work for?
palisades mall Aliate, I am an operator, so when I worked there in 97 I was digging for nino colonnelli (my old boss and still friend) he works for the pse&g and orange and rockland gas alot so he got paid by the utility. The rock is hard up there but not as bad as the fort lee jersey city area. Best of luck to you my friend:drinkup
Aliate, I know you are new to bidding projects but you should never have to ask if you underbid. Just make sure you thought of everything and you should know nearly exactly how much you expect to end up with in the end. This can vary a bit depending on your production numbers but on such a small job it should not vary much. Be confident in your numbers and make sure you included everything and you will be fine. Congrats on having the lowest bid! Let us know how it goes.
Large malls sometimes have labor agreements with the unions. Proper planning prevents pi_s poor production.
Aliate, I agree with NEConstruction, don't second guess yourself, u have to BELIVE that u have the right numbers on your bid. If u are unsure talk to the owner/CM ask question at the pre-bid meeting if they have one. and please let us know how things are going with the job !!!! and Congrats on the Job. Dave
When you plan to start!?
I didnt get it yet but by them calling me back Im guessing I had the low bid, but we will see soon
My advice is to plan for everything, what happens if you have an accident on the first day and have to spend a couple of weeks in hospital? Do you have people that can do the job without you? Will your insurance cover the cost of you having to hire in someone to finish the job?
I'm rooting for you Aliate. Just make sure the signs remain standing when you're done! Before you know it you'll be on the guy's speed dial. :drinkup
Hey, Aliate any updates on the job, did you get the job ??
Im gonna give them a call tomorrow, my computer was down for a few days, the hard drive went.
Sorry to hear about your computer, Aliate they seem to fail when you need them the most, LoL did u have to get a new computer ???
Nah it was under warranty only 11 mos old and I know enough after a few broken computers to upgrade to the 3yr warranty lol. They came here and put some new parts in it, lost all my stuff on my hard drive, but the business stuff is on another computer and its backed up so oh well.
I back up every thing with webroot and it does it every night so nothing is lost and it is cheap.
Aliate, How did the job go?
the douchebags used someone different, a company that parks their equipment there. It looks like they didnt do some stuff that was in the original spec to cut down their bid, like the foundations were never removed and one of the signs wasnt relocated, it was just moved up to fix the line of sight issues. They didnt call me, I just drove by and saw it was done. Ive been busy all week anyway, Im gonna call them on monday and see what happened.
I would not bother calling them as you will not get anything except what they want to tell you. They may have used you to drive the other bidder down. The other contractor may of gave them the idea on moving the sign up and then gave them a less than full value credit and then they are both happy. Look forward not backwards. It's over on that one make a call for another project or contact.