I will have a couple operators perform the greasing of our 322. Just telling them to "grease it" is not good enough. I want to make a chart that stays in the machine. I ran through the manual for grease and it just mentions the frequency which is basically daily on bucket links, weekly on boom/stick pins, and around monthly on turn table. I realize this is more based on hours but what I noticed in the manual is no call at all for qty and that leaves room for errors. I'd like to shake this down to "pumps per zerk" or something. For instance the bucket pin has 2-3x the surface area of the boom cyl pins so obviously you cannot just say "10 pumps per zerk". Anyone figure out a more fool proof method? I usually don't go with the method of having grease puking all over but we don't want under lubed pins either.
My 966M came with auto grease. Im in love with that thing. You can adjust each grease point individually. Takes the guess work out of it and you KNOW its getting done.
you know, our automated machines are auto lube. It is pretty standard and nice....Right until you "think" stuff is getting lube but it isn't. That's when **** gets expensive.
The machine talks to you, if you listen. When you don't have enough on a pin it will make noise. Then you up the quantity or frequency or both. But don't think some formula is the answer. Sometimes a pin take grease better at X angle or bucket curled or not. Sometimes you have to move the stick/bucket/etc while somebody else is pumping it in to get a good result now and again.
Tell that to some operators. They turn up the radio and ignore everything but a fire. But I know what you are saying about the sound of a dry pin. Just trying to see if anyone has found a good "training method"..... I think once you write a check for equipment, your ears change quite a bit....
Fastline....another thing to consider is the type and quality of the grease you use. There are some very good greases out there that stick better to the pins so you don't use as much as your standard EP greases. When shopping check the spec sheets and compare. Pick up a few tubes and try it out to see what you think. I have found some very good aluminum and calcium complex grease that's pricey for some but I think its worth the cost compared to replacing pins and bushings.
You actually expect operators to grease the machine AND run it???? How dare you sir!! I know a lot of guys are good at taking care of things like that, I’m not saying the guys that operate your equipment aren’t, but I find you could do everything in your power to make it as easy and efficient to grease a machine and it still doesn’t get done often enough. Some guys will over grease, some will under grease, and some won’t do it at all, chart or no chart, any greasing they do will be better than none at all….
My guys usually grease when one of two things happen: The pins starts squeaking....... I freak out because I can hear the pin squeaking from 400ft away.....
An observation on this point from a very inexperienced excavator operator but very experienced "efficiency consultant" that specialized in manufacturing consulting for many years and clearly remembers an IH (before CASE acquired them) project. Each machine needs three things: 1) simple but specific instructions on greasing (frequency, amount, technique), 2) a control chart in the cab (so that the operator can record when date/time the machine was greased). This gives the foreman and mechanic an audit trail and serves as a reminder to the operator to get it done, 3) an efficient grease gun with easy an connect fitting and plenty of the correct grease on hand, i.e., eliminate any excuses for not greasing the machine correctly. I have watched sloppy operators grease a harvester before a 12 hour run without wiping the fittings and missing the hard to reach ones...and then then shop mechanics wonder why so many field breakdowns occur. Also, as someone pointed out to me on a thread I started about greasing frequency...If you're working in water or wet conditions it's important to grease before and after the job...especially if the machine is going to sit for a while after use. While this procedure may sound too formal, net, net, if you're protecting a $100k+ investment if anything it's under-kill. And, people also assume that shooting grease into a zerk fitting is simple and easy. Not for some. Training is needed!
Right on. This is where I am trying to go. I just work too much with bearings to accept the theory of "lube it when it makes noise". I realize there are variables here, but I think any plan is better than none at all. Telling an operator to "grease it" means they will ignore most difficult lube points, and probably in all ways do it wrong. I know some guys truly mean well, but poor instructions leads to poor results. But let me just ask, how many pumps you guys throw at a pin? 5? 50? An entire tube?
We used to have these people they were called fleet oilers. They had a service truck usually with fuel and oils with power greasers . They check every machine fueled them and greased what needed it. They kept track of hours and changed oil and filters. The good ones kept a list of problems they spotted for the mechanic. Short sighted owners got rid of them because they cost money and didn't bring income. Then they tried to train mostly non mechanical lazy people to do this job. Then they found out how much it cost to repair neglected equipment sometimes right before the going out of business sale. Bob
My machinery fleet is small. I've had one backhoe many years now. I these days have a bulldozer, some farm tractors, etc. I want to grease more often than recommended. Generally, manufacturers want me to grease at 10 hour intervals. Like a welder, a backhoe doesn't get run 10 hours in a single day. Each work day it gets greased in the morning. If it has been rained on, it gets greased even if it'll only be used half hour. I've had loose machines, I don't like that. Grease keeps a machine tight much longer. My Milwaukee gun has two "gears" small pulses at high pressure, big delivery at low pressure. It makes a difference how worn the joint is, how much is needed to fill it. Cold weather is another factor. Grease won't flow as well in the cold. I do store my grease gun in heated space. A joint without a seal gets grease until it squeezes a bit out. Joints with seals get a bit less. I currently have my gun set at 7 small pulses at high pressure. If I were estimating I'd call that about a teaspoon. The swing tower and boom pivots get two jabs on the gun trigger.
When our company got its first excavator we had 2 grease fitttings on the side of the stick that no matter what we did could not get grease to the pins called sales rep he called the plant turns out there’s a void in there that has to fill up first before it builds up enough to get to where it needs to go first time took us about a case 12 tubes of grease and u can expect to put a full tube at least depending on who had the machine last
If that’s the case why didn’t the dealer catch that on the pre-delivery? When you say “a full tube” are you talking about all grease points or just the two on the side of the stick? What make and model of machine are we talking about?
16 ton Volvo not sure the exact model I probably have a picture somewhere but probably 2019 year it was made full grease tube will go into the 2fittings on the side of the stick, if it’s not with our crew usually takes 3 tubes to get the machine lubed up.
That’s funny you mention this, I work for a pretty good sized contractor and I am currently running a 374 Cat excavator and it will not make it through a 8 hour shift without the bucket pins starting to squeak. Usually after about 6 hours I have to stop and grease the bucket pin 2-3 tubes before any sign of grease! I swear every time that the stick is filling with grease.
My 210 Volvo is same way. Been a few times I swear the grease is disappearing because of how much goes in. One is for main stick pin, other for the pin that goes through boom above it. Now every time I grease it I go until I see a bit come out.
We got a mulching head for one of our excavators. The dealer was specific. 10 shots every 10 hours. It piled up around 450 hours. Opened her up lots of grease in it , but none on the bearing. The internal hose had come off the bearing. They fixed it under warranty. Guy on it is a good man, looks after stuff. Said it never made a sound till it screeched to a halt. One thing I don't like about auto greasers, when you grease the machine, or even tractor trailer, that's when you find stuff broken or worn. Anything sealed, I pump until I can see a bit of moisture come past the seal. U joints always give that little crack sound. Anything else, I wait for the grease to start coming out. Unless our excavators are dredging in salt water, most guys grease at end of shift, or start. My graders, I do a complete grease job at the start of the week, then I rotate front axle one day, moldboard components the next. A few of our loaders might not have an operator. It might be parked in a pit and the trucks are loading themselves. Might be 5 tractor trailers loading themselves for 7 trips each. The fuel man will grease the machine. They bought a new 470 Hitachi a couple years ago. It spent the entire summer loading sand for Oceanspray building cranberry bogs. The guy greased once a day, but the sand was really abrasive. had to do pins and bushings for the main bucket pin at just under 600 hours. I once left my compact grader, and went on a road grading job for a month and a half with the production grader. When I was greasing my compact machine, I ran out of grease. I took the tube out and realized I didn't have another one. I put it back together and figured the other crew would get it. When I took it back at the end of the road job, the gun was still empty, but the machine went pretty much every day while I was gone. Talk about dry.
Was just gonna add, the 963 I had been running where on a good day fuel and lube it up took full two tubes to grease, excavator I helped to lube up after transport to a new site used up four and was fully greased two days prior.
I'm now a firm believer in using high end grease. Back in my water & sewer days with my family we had the air greaser on the fuel truck pumping the mobil/esso EP2 grease. Used piles of it. The grease melted out of the pins and you could just get to the end of the day without greasing again with good digging conditions. Switched over to the Certified labs aluminum complex grease and loved it. Used less grease and it wouldn't melt out and separate. I'm a little surprised by how much you guys are using on your excavators. I remember running a John Deere 800 doing a pre-cut ahead of the main crew so I sometimes just used a lincoln lever grease gun to grease it. This was at the time when we switch over to Certified grease. Once the old grease was purged out of the pins I only used maybe a tube and a bit to grease it. Typically I would pump around 25-30 shots per main bucket pin on each side. When I used the new grease I could hear and feel it at around 18 shots. Big difference. And it stayed there. The specs on the grease show the 4-ball test at if my memory is correct over 800 lbs. I think the mobil/esso grease was around 350 lb. I might be a little off on my numbers but I think you get the message. I'm now using the calcium complex which is up around 1000 lbs. Very sticky beautiful grease. Cost's lot's more money but pins and bushings plus labour cost's more to me.
I grease all bucket points daily, unless the machine only runs a few hours, boom and stick every 3 days. My mental tally goes like this: bucket hinge pins (both) 50-60 pumps linkage points: usually about 25, pump until seen. Boom cylinder rod end: 25-30 Boom cylinder base: 10-15 Boom hinge: 40-50 pumps Stick cylinder base: 20 Stick hinge point: 50-60 or until seen Stick cylinder rod end: 20 or until seen Bucket cylinder base: 20 or until seen Rotec bearing: 5 pumps each fitting every third time I grease the boom/stick This may seem complicated, but I've been running and greasing my own machines for over 30 years, and this seems to be the right amount. The Case 210 I've been running for the last 8 seasons has 5000 hours on it, and I cannot see any movement in any joint yet. Always used 5% moly in the summer, 3% spring/fall and winter. FWIW, Case recommendation is 50 hours on all bucket points, 1000 hours on everything else. Stupid. These amounts obviously will not be sufficient on a machine that has any slop in the joints, worn joints pound the grease out twice as fast. Hope this helps.
I think if you want your operators to grease them to your satisfaction,then you’ll need to grease them yourself. I only have 2/3 machines and they are working in sand.I grease them all myself. I’ve long since given up as to what the correct procedure,or what type of grease to use and when. Bits that drag through the sand get 50 shots every 3 shifts.Bits that don’t get 20 shots. Fan hubs and eq bars etc get greased as per the maintenance manual though. However,if it’s raining on the day they want greasing,then the job gets carried over to the next time!
Thanks for that! I feel like we are getting off topic here and this helps. What size of machine you talking? The 210? That does seem like an astronomical amount of grease! Though over grease is better than under. Other than the Rotec.
Not to create an argument but I am always upfront with an employee. Your job is expansive and excuses in machine maintenance are all filed in the DGAF box downstairs. I track employees and if I find them doing anything unsafe or something that will hurt the equipment, they are gone. Not even a warning. I don't have time or patience for it anymore. But this only comes after proper training. It seems operators today have this messed up notion that their job is just to sit and move sticks. Everything else is someone else's job. I don't operate that way. You have time, you get out and inspect your equipment. You look for leaks, you listen, you note things mentally or on paper. When there is a new sound, it is not normal and must be investigated. In my other biz, there is a banner I made that says, "if you got time to lean, you got time to clean". I hate employees and I'm trying to get more robots going. It's sad, but worth ethic is nearly toast anymore.
It really isn't as much as you'd think. It only takes about a half tube to do the daily bucket stuff, and on the day's I do everything, I use a little more than a tube.
This might be why I am trying to get the facts and math straight because I'd say 50-75 pumps is a tube with my gun. I really like to work with volume but I find these OEM specs of "grease the joint" highly annoying. I come from precision manufacturing where no one would ever say "grease it", it is more like "15% fill, Kluber NBU15, 15%=31grams". This leaves little wiggle for errors. I really do like those electric grease guns that quantify the grease for you. That really is where I need to go.
Yours sounded like a lot of pumps but I generally use a full tube on a complete grease on mine, minus the swing bearing so it's pretty much the same amount. I just can't imagine pumping a grease gun that many times, my hands would tap out before the first joint was done Only machine I ever greased by hand was my 6 ton mini and I bought the battery grease gun after a few months because I couldn't do it anymore, never mind a full size hoe. Think mines been looked after pretty well though, 9200 hours and just a tiny bit of play in 2 bucket pins that showed up in last few hundred hours, zero in all the others. Switched to moly like a year ago from regular lithium it's surprising how much better it stays in.
I like the fact that you give them the boot and often without warning.I was like that in my 20’s and the business was quite volitile in those days.I’ve lost count of the men I fired over shutting engines down without idling.This would crack a D8 head immediately.It would also crack my head,and the culprit would get fired.I also recieved more than one smack in the mouth from disgruntled drivers,but that’s just the nature of the game. However,I have other business interests that aren’t heavy equipment related and if I was sacking people on the spot without warning,they’d be queuing up to sue me.Things have changed with the way incompetent machine drivers are treated.Many are useless,yet they are treated with kid gloves.The other issue is that there are cronic shortages of drivers,so even the worst of men get jobs at good money. Very few will dig tracks out or grease them when they should anymore,and that’s how it is.
I’ve spent 30 years running towed Cat 435 and 463 scrapers.Those beasts take a good amount of grease. The things would be slathered in grease to make them run smooth. I think the manual called for 5 shots a week in every fitting. Well,my thick brain could never handle that small amount.The sheaves that we’re out the way of debris would get 20 shots,but the hoist sheaves that would get buried in material would get 50 shots.I would also slather grease with a stick down the toboggan tunnel and paste it on the apron rope to keep the rust out.The ropes were allready oiled when they were manufactured,but I could never help myself! I definitely over greased them.It was like a disease to me!!! Ha ha