Hi, I have an older Grove AMZ-66 two wheel drive manlift. It has problems with the basket proportional controls where moving the joystick in either direction gives you movement in one direction only. The movement is a little slower when the joystick is in the opposite direction from what you are trying to command. This odd action does not stay there 100% of the time. Sometimes the joysticks seem to work for a short period of time but invariably go back to the one way operation. The machine has an "OEM Controls" controller that seems to multiplex the proportional controls into one cable pair to transmit the command down to the receiving controller on the machine. The transmitter has the keypad and plug-in jack for earphones. I have a service manual for a newer machine...mine is a 205XX serial number and the manual is a 836XX serial number. It was an eBay manual and so I got what I paid for...someone had removed the hydraulics/proportional section that had all the explanations I think I need to troubleshoot this puppy. I can get everything to work from the controls on the base of the machine. All of the "on/off" controls in the basket work, too. I did notice that occasionally I had to mechanically poke a proportional valve up the butt with a screwdriver to get it to work...so they must be a little sticky. I checked for a manual with the local Grove dealer in my area (Coast Crane) and they in turn checked with Minnpar....sure, a manual can be had for $499.95. Seriously. This is a "stump ranch" machine, not one that has to work in downtown NYC!! I'm looking for either some kind soul with a manual who might be willing to photocopy or scan the manual section I am missing (for $) or to make suggestions and help me work to a solution. Thanks, Jon.
Success.... Hi, I have a bit of good news to report on the problems I have posted above. I found a description of how to set up the joysticks in a Grove manual I had which, while not fixing the problem, allowed me to troubleshoot the problem and zero it in to the lower multiplex receiving box on the machine. I'm posting this note so others who may have the joy of trying to fix a Grove AMZ or related model may find a little help here. The service manual seems to be scared of these two transmit and receive boxes and for any problems they only say, "replace the box". Yeh. At Grove (now Minnpar) prices. un-hunh. I'll be sure to order two of each. I removed the lower box and opened it up. It had a couple of circuit boards covered in conformal coating, a clear silicon seal-like crap that makes working on anything in there the shzts. However, I noticed that the proportional part of the circuit had 5 small relays in it. The only moving parts in the whole box. I wonder...? Peering at the copper traces in the circuit board around the double pole relays suggested that they were set up as a reversing switch of some kind. EUREKA!!! These little relays reversed the signal to each valve so that when you wanted to change direction with the joystick, the opposite side of the valve was energized...via the relay. They are standard Omron 5 amp relays so I had replacements ($9.00 each) in a couple of days from Digi-Key, a big electronics parts supplier in Minn. Changing them out was no picnic, everything was covered in that infernal conformal coating and trying to get the 8 pins of each relay out of the soldered holes in the circuit board....well, it took some time and lots of solder wick. But, once back together, the odd behavior of a joystick only moving an axis in one direction no matter what way the joystick was moved, WAS GONE. It now works correctly. I pulled the old relays apart and was able to observe a very small area of arcing and pitting on one of the contacts on each of the 4 relays. I presume that this was the culprit in causing my particular set of symptoms. Jon.
I'm still hoping that someone out there might have a wiring diagram for a Grove AMZ-series machine. I don't need a diagram for my machine exactly, (AMZ-66) but one for a AMZ machine that has the multiplexing transmitter and receiver. I'd be happy to pay for you to take it to a copying place to scan and email it to me... Thanks, Jon.
Hello, I have a crane AMZ66XT. I do not know which are the differences from AMZ66. My problem is that the crane was stored outside and the moment when I wanted to start, I noticed that all the cables from the terminal block connections from the control panel of the basket are removed. Looks like someone made a really bad joke. After the I said I do not know the differences between AMZ66XT and AMZ66, but if you can look at your crane and make a plan as cables are connected to the terminal block. Maybe a picture inside the operator panel could complete this little scheme. In preparing the scheme take great care of the 6 diode polarity What is your e-mail address to be able to send diagrams that I have. Unfortunately for my model is not good.
I have several Grove manuals, including the AMZ66, and they do not seem to include wiring diagrams. At least nun of mine have them, the electrical section is 16 pages with very little info. In my opinion, Grove manuals are some of the worse written manuals out there. $500.00 +/- per machine and they tell you almost nothing.
Hi, The difference between the AMZ66XT and AMZ66, to my knowledge, is that the XT has 4 wheel drive. I think someone played more than a bad joke on you....I don't see the electronic transmitter box in there....my machine has the transmitter located beside the terminal strip. Does your machine have the transmitter and receiver boxes...? It seems to me that some models of the AMZ may have some electronics built into each joystick and don't use the transmitter/receiver setup. I'll take a photo of my layout and post it here so you can see if my machine is set up similar to yours. If my setup can help you I have no problem making a listing for you of the wire numbers and where they are connected. Excavator, you say a mouthful... my manuals aren't so useful, either. I have a manual I borrowed from a friend with an AMZ-50. He has a whole bunch of electrical drawings in 11 x 17 size but I think he asked for them from a Grove dealer here in BC, and since he has several cranes I think they pulled the stops to help him. They aren't much good for me because they are for a unit that is not blessed with the electronic transmitter/receiver box. Jon.
Hi, I'm new here, we have an AMZ-50 with electrical issues, none of the boom controls work from the basket. Was wondering if sawmilleng still had access to the AMZ-50 manual, and if he could share any info with me. Thanks
Hi, Limorsteel, I'll see what I still have of the AMZ-50 info. I'd be happy to scan anything I have and email it to you. I can only scan 8.5" wide and I think the drawings are 11 x 17 so I would have to either get them scanned by a commercial place at a few bucks a copy or see if I can scan sections that you would have to paste together... From what you are saying, if NONE of the boom controls work from the basket you might have a problem where the entire cable is either unplugged or severed somewhere within the boom. For your information, I managed to purchase a "hydraulics and electrics schematics" set of drawings from Minnpar for my AMZ-66 for $160 or so. It was 3 pages each of hydraulics and electrical schematics in 11 x 17 size. It illustrates all the wiring on the machine EXCEPT for any details of the upper and lower transmitter/receiver boxes. But if your AMZ-50 doesn't use these two boxes you will have the complete wiring diagrams. And since they will ask for your machine serial number, you will get the exact wiring diagrams that are for your machine. Worth considering. For others looking at AMZ-66 problems, my issues have not disappeared. In posting #2, above, I said that changing some little relays in the lower electronics control box made my problems disappear. Yeah, for a day . The same symptoms came back and are still there. I've been busy as heck on other things and cannot dedicate time to thoroughly troubleshoot the problem. I need to use the machine on the farm nearly every day so have to have a groundsman around (my wife) to help-- from the ground controls-- with movements that the machine won't cooperate with at any given time. Working at troubleshooting this has been kinda fun in a perverse way... I'm a mechanical engineer and one of my sons is going to college for electronics technician so we are getting loads of quality time discussing the issue and coming up with ideas for troubleshooting to try to narrow the problem down. While avoiding putting the machine fully down for any length of time! That's the one bright side to this machine's problems. Gads, I can't begin to imagine the frustration of someone who was trying to keep this machine running for a real business, where downtime is critical. It would have been shipped to the scrapyard and turned into Toyota hubcaps years ago!!! So I'll have a look tomorrow of what I have and get back to you. Jon.
If you have not done so, clean all of your grounding points. On my MZ145, grounds are inside upper control box, inside lower control box and there are a few grounds to the frame bundled on a starter bolt (these may be the most important ones). Your ground points may be in a different location but find them, remove the lugs, file the grounding point clean and file the lugs. Look for loose crimp fittings in the lugs. Use dielectric grease when putting it back together. The MZ145 has a signal led on the lower control box that indicates there is comm with the upper control box. It flashes. If your model has this, does it flash? If so, cabling is probably not your issue unless it's intermittent. Again, if your control box is like the MZ145 and I think it is, there is an axial capacitor on the upper control terminals. Replace it. It's a .50 cent part. Check the diodes across the terminals in the upper controls with a multimeter. With one end of the diode lifted, it should be open on one direction and have resistance in the other direction. There is no magic bullet in fixing these things. It's more like unwinding a series of unfortunate events. Start with the grounds.
Hi, GBH, Not sure if you are talking to Limorsteel or me, but your comments are very interesting. I've checked the grounds on the lower control box that passes through the box to a big ground wire on the outside of the box. Changed the bolt, sandpapered, used Penetrox on it because of the steel/copper/aluminum joint. We'll chase down the other grounds you mentioned and deal with them. I've had a look at the voltage at the upper control box. It seems to be kind of low--11.5V or so when the lower box voltmeter is reading 14V (while the engine is running and the alternator is charging). So--even more important to check all the grounding. The comm link flashes--I'm pretty sure the two boxes are communicating. I've tried a separate cable for the comm link to see if anything changed. No joy. I've looked at the capacitor and diode on the upper box power supply and wondered if that old electrolytic capacitor could be contributing to our problem.... Now that you pointed it out, we'll cover that point off. I picked the machine up out of a boneyard in a big plant in Ohio. I'm guessing that they had the same problem as I'm working on and finally tossed it, out of frustration. Is your MZ-145 a 145 footer? Pretty big machine! My knees would be knocking when passing 60 feet going up!! It would make one heck of a fine elk blind here on the farm! You could just drop rocks on their heads when they were grazing on the hay under you!! Jon.
My MZ145 is 45 feet. The vertical reach is fine for what I do but the horizontal reach can be a bit limiting when I can't get the lift close to whatever I'm working on. Let us know what happens after you chase the grounds.
Grove AMZ-66 basket control issues I am pulling out my hair with a 1992 Grove AMZ-66 manlift which the controls from the basket do not work. Only the emergency stop, starter switch and choke switch operate from the basket. Yesterday, I had all of the lower control functions working and today only half of them are operational. On the low side, the steering works, the boom in/out works. I can operate the boom lift, swing and fwd/reverse by pushing in on the solenoids. Now on the lower controls, when using the basket tilt, it pressurizes the hoses but doesn't move. (it did earlier in the day) I'm no electronics expert but have a meter and know how to use it. I cleaned a few connections but overall the wiring and boxes appear to be in good order. The lift functioned about a year ago and has been sitting since. No rodent damage and it has been sheltered. I found a little "lunar lander" device under the engine next to an alarm horn that had some nasty wires on it. What does this device do? Any ideas? I have a parts book but no manual.
Fear, If you can't get any action by poking the valves, then your problems are not electrics. I'd start by ensuring that your oil tank is full on the sight gauge. Don't ask me why I know this is important!! Then get a hydraulic gauge good for 3500 psi and plumb it in on the pressure line from the pump. There's a spot for it under the electrical control box, right by the emergency electric pump. It's an o-ring face seal type of fitting so you'll need an adapter to fit your guage, which will likely be 1/4" pipe threaded. The pump is a pressure compensated pump where it adjusts the flow to a set pressure. You should see this pressure once you start up. I'm not exactly sure but I believe it should be around 3000psi. If you can get the boom in/out to work but none of the other ones, it sounds like you may have low pressure, since the boom in/out doesn't take much pressure to operate. Low pressure may also be your problem with the basket tilt, since pressure has to overcome the cross port relief valves to move the cylinder. Another angle to check would be to try using the system with the emergency electric pump. Will it make any or all of the functions work? Hope this helps! Jon.
The electric aux pump does make the functions work for the most part. The boom in/out isn't the only thing that works. The boom lift works with manual stimulation, the wheels drive, the boom swings, etc. There is absolutely no hydraulic actuation from the basket. (Not even trying) I can check the pressures but pretty sure this isn't the issue unless it has to be at a higher value for the basket controls to work than the lower controls. Yesterday, I had every control working from the lower panel and gradually things have deteriorated from there the more I've tried to "fix it". Even when all the lower controls were working, there was NO actions from the basket (other than engine related) None of the circuit boards look like the magic smoke got out. Just don't know how to go about troubleshooting this... I'll try to come up with a gauge and tap in somewhere... I appreciate your input.
I've got similar problems to you with my AMZ-66. With the exception that all of my lower controls work. The valves are sometimes sticky but with a few manual pokes up their butts and with warmer oil the lower controls work. The upper controls operate the same valve coils except that on the proportional controls the current is pulse width modulated. The lower controls just turn the valves on, to the level set by the lower potentiometer. So if you can't get the lower controls to work I wouldn't worry much about getting the upper to work. Do you have the upper and lower transmitter/receiver setup? My AMZ is mid 1980's and I think they may have toasted that control setup in later models because it was hard to troubleshoot. It used a single twisted pair of wires to send the switch commands from the basket down to the lower controls. It could handle something like 13 or 14 on/off switch commands and 4 proportional commands from the upper basket. I believe a few of the upper controls were hard wired on different wire pairs...for example, the e-stop is hard wired and likely your starter and choke are, too. I'll bet your emergency hydraulics button is also hard wired from the basket. If your lower control electronics box is the same as mine it has a test lead and a red light on the box. You can check to see if the box is outputting power to the appropriate solenoid terminal when someone is holding the basket control on. There is also a red LED on the front of the box that shows if the box is receiving a signal from the upper. It should be flashing if it thinks things are OK. Jon.
I picked up a hydraulic gauge today 0-5000psi and will try to get that plumbed in to check pressures. It will have to wait a bit as it's too stinking hot to be outside this afternoon.
Went back at the Grove AMZ66 today and here's what took place: 1. I couldn't figure out where to tap in for a gauge. Guess I need more specifics. 2. I cleaned the hydraulic filter (looked good) but in reinstalling the canister, it must have shaved the large o-ring as it leaks now. 3. I checked the aux controls (the ones that run off just the battery and drives a starter motor turning a separate hydraulic pump. All of the functions worked with that system. 4. I fired the unit up and was experimenting with labeling solenoids to try to isolate why I lost some functionality of the lower controls. I finally figured out that if I turned the rate control up more, I got those functions back. So with the control dial up towards the higher side, I now again have all the lower controls functioning. So hydraulics probably isn't my issue. 5. The exception to "everything functioning" is the basket tilt. This was working a couple sessions ago but it is either seized up or something is stuck. When I try the tilt mode in either direction it loads the engine and I can see the hoses flexing as they're pressurizing but the basket doesn't move. It is almost like pressure is being applied to both sides of the actuator cylinder at once. At this point, while it will need to get resolved, that isn't my top priority. 6. The indicator light in the lower control electronic panel which is supposed to be flashing if the basket is communicating wasn't. I messed with a bunch of wires unplugging and plugging in connectors and generally inspecting them. I checked the light and it seemed to be flickering. Not really "flashing" but more like vibrating if that makes sense. At any rate, it looked different so I went into the basket and lo and behold, the basket controls worked. I was in there testing different functions and then nothing was working again. I checked the indicator light and it was steady again. Rats! So I started messing with wires again and found a few that didn't look all that great. Wish I knew which "pair" of wires supply the signal to the lower panel. I was unable to get the light to flicker again but quit as I was getting overheated. So I made two steps forward and one step back but at this point I think I have a wiring issue and not some electronic issue so that is somewhat encouraging. I need to solve the hydraulic leak created at the filter but in a worst case scenario I would let this leak if I could get everything else functioning.
Hi, Fear, Sounds like you had a productive, if a little frustrating, day. I agree with your conclusion about probably not having hydraulics issues. And you probably don't have electronics issues, either. I read your comments about just how the flashing led works with some interest, since my issues are very similar to yours. I have been working under the assumption that the faster the led flashes, the better the signal. Anyway, my led has been flashing very fast, almost steady. So your saying that your system quit when the led was steady has me scratching my head. To find the twisted pair of wires that is the communications link between upper and lower, take a look at the wire numbers on the comm terminal strip along the bottom of the box in the lower. It is right beside the power supply terminals. Those same wire numbers will show up in the upper box on the terminal strip. My drawings, which are specific for my machine, suggest the numbers are 37 and 37A. It shows a shielded twisted pair is used for this link. I tried bypassing the comm wire pair on my machine by pulling off the wires on the upper and lower and taking a long chunk of 16 gauge "extension cord" type of cable. There was no change for me...the led blinked at about the same rate and no changes were seen when trying to use the upper controls. This could have been a bad test...I didn't use a shielded cable for the comm line. You might have a close look at post #9, from GBH, where he suggested cleaning all the grounding points. I have not tried that yet on my machine. I did take a look at the voltage available at the power supply for the upper and it wasn't the best- around 11 volts when the machine was running, with 14.4 volts coming off the alternator. However, there are some power resistors in the dc supply to the upper so I'm not sure if the lower voltage is a problem or not. Regarding your basket tilt issue, do you have an 8' basket? If so, it has an additional electrically-actuated lock valve on it. If not, the hydraulic schematic is pretty simple and I can scan it to you. If you can feel the hoses stiffen under pressure then it sounds like there's a bad counterbalance valve or like you say, something is seized or plugged. Jon.
I'm about ready to call the scrap man on this unit. Seems like I just keep going backwards... The latest issue is that I lost electrical to the ignition system. ie, when I turn the key on, it doesn't register on the voltmeter and there seems to be no power to the coil. However there is when I push the aux controls button. Must be a relay somewhere that packed in. I just don't have the time to spend on this unit and am going to give it one more go and then I'm gonna quit. Grrrr!
Fear, Calm down... Its only a machine...! But I would be there with you if you decided to shoot the engineer who designed the electrics on these machines with balls of his own shzt! :Banghead I think you might benefit from getting an electrical schematic. At least you can then go over what you've done and see how it fits in the big picture. I'm wondering if you might be fighting with grounding issues... Jon.
I've checked almost all of the grounding points, cleaned connections and so forth. I tried running a pair of wires from the basket to the lower control panel and that seemed to get the signal light flickering but didn't provide any basket control. I was completely serious when I indicated I am about "done" with this machine. I am going to devote about another half day to it and will call it quits after that. I work on stuff every day but not as complex as this and I'm just in over my head. I do have a bunch of electrical schematics but would need a very powerful magnifier to see it well enough to make sense of it. I did figure out what the little lunar lander thing was after removing it. (tilt alert device) This has been an exercise in frustration...
Well, did another session with my manlift buddy. I was able to "hotwire" the coil from the battery to get it fired up but was unable to figure out why I don't have any power with the key switch anymore. I worked on trying to get basket control messing with relays and so forth and essentially got nowhere. I have put this project on "pause" for now. I think I need to wait for someone that has stronger electronic trouble shooting skills. That is probably my weakest area of mechanical repairs. I can fix most anything but this machine has kicked my butt and I am slinking off with my tail between my legs. I have work to do on vehicles, tractors, airplanes and chainsaws so I hope those go better. lol. Thanks everyone for their help.
Hi all, My first post here. Thanks for the helpful posts here, gave me some ideas. I just bought a 1999 Grove AMZ66XT. Everything seemed to work fine when I checked it out. On deliver (it had been trucked 100 miles in the rain) the drive wouldn't work. It seemed to want to go in reverse no matter which way the drive control was pressed, forward or reverse. Problem was, it wouldn't go in the direction necessary to get it off the trailer. So we had it pulled off with a wrecker. Now it is blocking my driveway. Everything works from the basket except steering and drive. Steering works somewhat. It will switch from front to rear wheel steering but I can't get the wheels to steer in the full range of travel. Almost like there isn't enough hydraulic pressure to turn the wheels but it doesn't make sense to me that the hydraulics would be the problem; all the other hydraulic cylinders seem to work fine. I would think that if the electrics and the solenoid and manifold valves are working enough to get some steering that the wheels would steer the full range. But maybe it is flaky electics. The drive only goes in one direction, no matter if the drive lever is put in forward or reverse. And the drive is really jerky, not sure why. The early post in this thread is helpful since it explained how this problem was fixed by someone else. Thanks for that. I suspect the problem is moisture in the proportional drive controller which also has the steering buttons built into the top of the drive controller handle. I'm going to dry things out, refresh grounds, pull all the spade connectors and refresh with contact solvent and apply dielectric grease. Hopefully that'll bring it back to normal. If not, I'll probably be trouble shooting deeper and maybe looking for suggestions here on this site. I did get a parts and maintenace manual with the life, which actually isn't much help. There is a reference to electrical diagrams in the back of the binder, but there aren't any schematics to be found. Has anyone wired 12v straight to one of the solenoids just to by pass all the electrics to see how things are working? The steering solenoids are not porportional, could I just temporarily jump the solenoids to get the wheels during in the right direction so I can move it. What do you think? Thanks, Charlie in the Deep South of Vermont
Sawmilleng's son here. To be honest, I don't know what I did either. I changed the return hydraulic filter and removed the hydraulic suction filter as I didn't know how old or plugged they were (we are still having issues over finding a replacement for the suction filter). The hydraulics did seem a little more lively after the filters were changed/removed. Only other thing I can think of is we used it quite a bit over the summer on the house, and maybe the solonoids were getting cleaned out of whatever was gumming it up. I noticed the control's behavior seemed to change after running for about ten minutes. Mind you, it is always a wild guess on what basket control would work properly each time you start it up - my eye twitches just thinking about it. Even now, the manlift does not like to steer to the full limit unless the drive motors are engaged. This might be a hydraulic pressure issue. Don't forget there are some pump controls up in the basket - range and speed. Speed will affect the drive motor speed while range affects everything else. I have the range in high most of the time simply because the thing is too sluggish otherwise.
That's the tilt sensor
Hi Jon and son, Thanks for your replies. I got the lift out of the driveway and up into the farmyard driving in reverse, lurching along a foot at a time. Steering with limited steering but with 4 wheel steering managed not to drive over the bank and into the brook. Now I can leisurely troubleshoot. Jon thanks for the info regarding manual activation of the proportional valves. Three of the four work manually (these are also working correctly from the platform). But by experimenting with these three, I learned what to expect. I disconnected wires from the drive porportional valves and manually actived. Nothing really happens in either direction. Interestingly, things have changed since I manged to drive the lift to its current location. It no longer will drive in one direction as it did before. However, it tends to creep in the same direction just with the engine running!
I realize that I can't edit a post on this site, am I missing something? I didn't mean to post the above quite yet. Continuing: So I suspect the drive proportional valve is gummed up, stuck. I'm going to study the manual and see if you guys have any thoughts before I start taking apart that valve. Any thoughts on other things to consider regarding the drive? As far as the steering, it seems to have corrected itself a little but I haven't really tested it as the lift is sitting on soft ground and operating the steering without rolling digs hole. Thanks!
Having studies the manual a little, I realize that the solenoids control a hydraulic valve that serves as master to a slave valve that does the actual opening and closing of the related hydraulic circuit. The solenoid activated valve sits on top of the slave valve. The diagram is a little confusing but I think I understand what is going on. So even if the slave valve is manually activated, if the slave valve is stuck, nothing happens. My next idea is to remove the end caps of the slave valve (numbered 803 and 404 in the attache parts diagram). That should allow me to see if the valve piston (#802) is stuck. I might even remove it to check for obstructions. Has anyone done this? Any suggestions what else to consider? Thanks, Charlie (Hey, I found an edit option. I wonder why that was not present for my previous post...)
Success! Steering: Not sure what I did with respect to getting the steering hyraulics working better, but it seems okay. My bigger issue was the loss of drive which had gotten progressively worse over a short period of time. History: Supposedly, it was all working fine when it was loaded on the trailer. Once here, after a flat bed ride of 100 miles, the drive would only go in one direction and even then would lurch in short intervals traveled. I now think that the drive hyraulics were sending pressure to the wheel drive motors and releasing the brakes for just a second or two, then the pressure would drop and the brakes would reengage. As posted above, I began to suspect that the main hydraulic valve (I called it the "slave" valve in above post) was stuck. I came to this conclusion because manually pushing on the "master" valve (the manual calls it the "pilot" valve) did nothing to the wheel drive circuit. So I removed the end cap of the main hydraulic valve of the wheel drive circuit. Here's what I found: There is a spring that is attached to the valve plunger with a bolt. That bolt was not completely screwed in. In the upper image you can see the exposed threads of the incompletely threaded in bolt. I removed the spring and reinserted the bolt to take a picture that makes it easier to see how much the bolt had backed out. I tightened down the bolt, reassembled the valve, and voila! the drive is working again. Since the machine had been trucked in the rain, and the platform control panel was wet inside, I naturally assumed that electrics were the problem. But having ruled out electrics, I turned to the hydraulics. Apparently the ride down on the trailer jiggled the loose bolt enough over time to disable the drive so that it would drive in only one direction. After that, in my efforts to drive the unit, hydraulic flow through the valve continued loosening the bolt to the point that the wheel drive didn't work at all except that there was a slight creep going on with just the engine running. Thanks to all who posted in response to my original query. I hope this helps some one else who may have a problem troubleshooting the drive system.
"magic smoke"! LOL Love it!
Do you have a repair or parts manual for the AMZ66 or AMZ66XT? I have a cracked union on the bottom housing. Hydraulic oil leaks out rapidly and I think I'm going to have to totally disassemble the unit to weld if up. I need to figure out the best way to do that.
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HI I have and old telescooping lift made by Manlift inc subsidjary of kidde model MZ66 serial no 3255 i am in need of wiring schematics all of the wires in basket control box have been disconnected from the plugs lift is used on the farm to open and close lid on grain storage bins. It sill work but take two people one to operated from lower control and one to go up in basket to oper or close covers. All control at lower station work ok. I sure would like to get the control in basket working so it would be a one person operation. If any one has the schematics please email me at [email protected]
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If anyone knows how to fix these Groves, I have an AMZ66 that I have given up on. It's located in middle Georgia (about 50 miles S of Atlanta) and I will make someone a very good deal on it. Needs a low boy semi to move most likely. It runs and everything functions from the lower controls but there's basket control issues and I am out of my realm. I don't need it badly enough to pay someone to fix it. If this sounds like a project one would like to explore, call me at 770-584-9020 and I can provide more info.
pic of Grove AMZ66
On the above pictured unit, show me where to place the charges, lol.
I have a 96 grove amz50xt with 2300 hrs. Machine is fairly clean. I bought this from the original owner. He said he parked it then a few months ago. Then the top basket controls stopped working. When I push the auxiliary button the joysticks work except forward and reverse. When I press the foot pedal the green light lights up. But whenever I move any of the joysticks the d/s disable and the l/t/s disable lights come on. I've replaced all the relays in the lower control box. Any idea what's going on? I'm clueless as to what else to try or to do.
Sounds like the problem with the AMZ50xt is similar to mine in that it was working, I parked it for several months (ok, a year or so...) and then the basket controls wouldn't work. I tried a number of solutions and finally gave up. I helped a guy load it on a lowboy this past Saturday and he can deal with it now. I wanted the space back...
Just bought one of these units. I have the work shop manual but the wiring and hydraulics is missing. Being new to the lift game, What is the best way to change out the hydraulic hoses for the boom. I have a major leaker.
Hi, Jennifer, I have a Grove AMZ-66 and to change a hose I attached a rope to it before starting to pull it out. It's been 5 years so my memory is a little fuzzy about the details but I think I ran the boom out to put the bend in the cable/hose carrier at one end. I do remember thanking my lucky stars that I had attached the rope before doing anything with the hose 'cause it's about the only way to pull the new hose back in! I used a skinny rope-- 1/4" nylon braided -- that was extra flexible. Some of my hoses are double, built like oxyacetylene hoses, for pressure and return- so make sure you know what you have before yanking them out. Other than that, it's just a typical hydraulics repair job--oily and friggin' dirty! Let us know how it goes. Jon.
Thanks Jon, did you buy a pre made line or have one made after you pulled the broken one? Does everything need to be blocked up before pulling any lines?
Edited. Double post.
Jennifer, I had a new line made after I pulled the old one. As to blocking, yes, I did. Not only block the item that you are removing the hose from but whatever will hurt you if it moves while you are in there! There's plenty of tight spots on this machines boom just waiting to bite you! Jon.
I have some hydraulic and electrical schematics for the older model AMZ56 AMZ66 : https://www.dropbox.com/s/d16yccaqyfu1vnv/AMZ56 66 XT.tiff?dl=0 If anyone has a service and an operators manual, I would appreciate receiving a copy.
@sawmilleng Do you by chance still have your AMZ66? I recently purchased one that had been sitting for the last 5 years. Supposedly ran well and everything functioned at that time. The Nissan engine was tight and it had several bad hydraulic hoses. I resolved all of those issues and can completely run and control the unit from the ground control panel. However, I have an issue with the upper control panel... I can blow the horn, use the kill switch, and start the machine from the upper control panel. Oddly, for 1-2 seconds after that any upper control will function, then they all just go dead. There is a relay lying in the box, and I'm wondering if this relay is cutting the power to the upper control box functions for some reason. Any idea what it's function is?
Hi, PAoutdoorsman, Yes, I still have my AMZ66. My machine does not have any relays in the upper control box. It has the same device in your photo that is partially hidden behind the wires in the upper left side of the photo but I think that is some sort of alarm. I'm wondering if this relay is related to some sort of deadman switch on the upper control panel that must be held closed to allow the control to work. A pushbutton or toggle switch that you have to hold while operating a function? A photo of your console might help as I can compare it to my console layout. A lot of time has elapsed between the time these machines have been built and possibly safety laws have changed to require both hands to operate controls- one hand on the deadman switch and the other controlling the function. Are there any wire numbers on the wires running to the relay? All of the wires in my control box have wire numbers printed on the cables every inch or two. Alternatively, trace the wires from the relay to where they connect on the console or to the circuit board. I have a shztload of documentation on this machine including wiring diagrams but it seems to me that Grove made changes as they were building them so you need to match the serial number to the drawings. They also treated the circuit boards as black boxes so chasing a problem to a black box can be frustrating (and costly) My machine still has problems as described in my earlier posts on this thread but it still works from the ground controls so I run it with a groundsman around. And if the controls don't work on the ground we are adept at taking a nail or welding rod and poking the correct hydraulic valve up the butt to MAKE it work! We just haven't had the time to get right into it and do some serious troubleshooting. I still hope to get my machine back to 100% operational and I'm willing to bide my time to do so....I have a secret weapon to help me here, called a son who is trained in electronics so we will attack it through a slow winter and maybe simply trash the upper and lower control boards. The only thing these control boxes do is combine the signals between the 4 "porportional" controls in the basket and the ground into a single pair of wires. (Porportional= pull a control lever a little, the action moves slowly. Pull a lever a lot, the action moves fast.) So all this complication just eliminates a few extra wires running through the boom. Please feel free to ask if you need clarification or want me to see what I have for a wiring diagram of the upper basket. And let me know how you make out!! Jon.
I so appreciate the response. Here are some pics of my upper and lower control panels and inside boards. My machine serial number is 243xx, so our machines are fairly close in serial number. I believe mine to be a 1990 model. Maybe this relay has nothing to do with my lack of upper control panel function issue. I suspect it is not wire correctly however. The wire numbers going to it, and what I can trace/test them to are as follows: 1A - Ground 39 - High Speed Toggle Switch Selection (I also find 39 going to port 17 of the upper control box logic board which is then jumpered to port 18 & port 20) 39E - Goes to port 19 on the upper control box logic board 76C - Goes to the right most connector on the boom cable distribution block - which is paired with a black wire from the boom cable labeled "L"
It would appear this machine has no two handed or foot pedal safety at the upper controls. On the lower control box however, I do have to push & hold the 'Lower Control Selector' button for those controls to function.
@sawmilleng Hey Jon, could you possibly take a look at your machine and compare some functionality with mine? Does your machine have the Auxiliary Power Unit for emergency functionality? With the basket control stop switch in the up/on position, when you turn the key on, does your horn blow until you start the machine? Mine does. With the basket control stop switch in the up/on position, when you turn the key on, does the 'Power Output' light on the OEM Controls receiver box inside the lower control panel light solid and remain lit? Mine lights for 2 seconds, then goes out. During these 2 seconds, my basket controls function.
I'll check later today--I have to put a battery into the old girl and wake her up.... Jon.
Sorry...I didn't answer your first questions: Yes, my machine has an aux electric pump to operate the machine without the engine running. Regarding the horn, I don't think my machine sounds the horn when I turn on the power and shuts off when it is started. It might disconnected--I can look at that, too. I have a borrowed 40' Grove AMZ of about the same vintage, and yes, I KNOW that horn blows at startup because it aggravates the crap out of me. And I last started that guy about 6 months ago and still remember that freakin' horn! Jon.
The horn sounding to alert of startup is probably normal then. I was just wondering if it was actually indicating some type of issue. My 'Power Output' light only stays lit for a few seconds after startup. Also, while running, if you press the 'Auxiliary Power Unit' button then let off, it will also light for a couple seconds. During that short time, any basket control will function. I did run an independent pair of wires today for the data stream just to make sure there wasn't an issue with that pair. Exact same behavior.
Can you tell if the relay is functioning when the basket controls are going on and off? Tapping into the relay coil with a small indicator bulb should give you an indication of what it is doing, if anything, when the controls stop working.
I'm not really sure there is a specific relay associated with this light. If the behavior of this light is the same on yours, then I'll know I'm chasing the wrong thing.
Morning Jon, did you happen to get a chance to check the behavior of the 'Power Output' light on the receiver box in the lower control box on your unit? One other thing that might help me is to compare 3 of the wires on the 16 terminal connector block in the upper control box. Could you tell me which white wire numbers you have mated to the following boom cable wires: H (I have two labeled H, I'm curious about the one that has shrink tubing on it), E, & F?
There are two noisemakers on Grove manlifts: -a car horn that is connected to the engine oil pressure circuit. -a beeper that sounds when one of the functions is being used. Both will fill up with dirt and stop working after a while, but it is also possible for a annoyed worker to just disconnect the noisemakers if they get to annoying. I believe we used a grove manlift years ago that had an additional buzzer inside the basket control box that sounded when the manlift was not level.
What might be worthwhile for your control receiver, if you are having trouble with a circuit board, is to scrub the board clean of dirt with isopropyl alcohol, then inspect the solder joints for cracking. Sometimes a control problem can be solved by reflowing the solder joints, especially those that use tin solder.
@Puffie40 - Thanks for that information. The way you explain it is exactly how my horn and function beeper are working. It's nice to know what is triggering the horn. I do also have the alarm/alert device in the upper control box, but I have not heard it sound yet. That would make sense since I haven't had the machine out of level. I'll test it tomorrow by manually leaning the tilt sensor.
I'm still uncertain if I have an issue with the transmitter in the upper control box, or the receiver in the lower control box. Still hoping @sawmilleng will be able to verify how the 'Power Output' light functions on his receiver. If I can narrow my problem down a bit, a close look at the solder joints will be in order. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
As an update, I borrowed an oscilloscope and graphed the data link wires. I'm now even more convinced that signal is being sent from the platform transmitter board to the receiver box. @sawmilleng , Any chance you've had a minute to pop a battery in yours and check how the 'Power Output' light functions? I know a guy with some electronics knowledge, and I might have him take a peek inside my receiver box if you are able to confirm that your light stays on after startup.
I was wondering what problems you had when the oil tank was not full. My MZ66B is down about an inch below the minimum line on the sight glass. I took off the plate that has the air breather on it as it seemed like I had put a lot in there and nothing showed. My problems are when lowering the boom and other functions, the motor loads up and will die. The boom goes up fine. Travel is slow and several tilt functions lug the motor down. Thanks Brad
Hi Badger I have a "T60 (MZ66) Operator's manual if it helps.
https://rentalift.by/assets/T60.pdf
Hi Junker - I appreciate your posting the link to the manual. I can use it as I didn't have one. Thanks. Hi Badger - I wasn't able to find the hydraulic schematic from your link. It may help with my MZ66B unit. I topped off my hydraulic tank but it didn't make any difference in performance. Most functions have the same problem. As an example - operating from ground - Lowering and raising the boom - the motor lugs down and will die if the switch is continually held. Even driving the unit goes very slow. Bucket functions have the same results - the motor will lug down. The following functions lug or load the engine down while using the ground controls: Lift – up and down Tele - in only Platform rotate – both directions Platform level – up only Also the Auxiliary Pump will not activate – nothing happens. I would really appreciate any help – where should I start looking? I think a common valve may not be opening. Thanks for any ideas. Brad Baum 509-995-9428 Model: MZ66b Serial Number: 29418 Year: 1994
Brad, does your engine try to throttle up as the function switch is moved? You may need to examine the throttle solenoid.
Not by itself. Even when I pull the manual throttle and rev up the engine it loads up and drags the engine down and will cause the engine to die..
It sounds like something is not responding when a load is put into the system. Perhaps the pressure compensation mechanism on the pump isn't working?
OK, I will try to investigate that. All I have is a parts manual. Any advice on how to test it? And thanks for your responses.
Hi Biddley, Here's a new link to the schematic: https://www.dropbox.com/s/d16yccaqyfu1vnv/AMZ56 66 XT.tiff?dl=0 Had not been on the forum for quite a while, so missed your request.
Thanks for the manual Junker!
I also thank you. I appreciate the time it takes to be involved in forum like this. If anyone also has a hydraulic schematic it would be appreciated. I still have a lot of snow on and around the lift. Hoping for a warming but probably not for a couple months.
The tiff file should have included hydraulic schematics. In case it did not, here's a link to the full set of schematics in pdf format: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dhnizeujj...lic and Electrical Schematics E_size.pdf?dl=0
Oh thanks so much - the 1st link was only one page. This is perfect and will help a lot. I appreciate your help and time. Brad
Thanks again Badger, this will help. I think I have a bad diode, no upper contol power
If you guys have trouble w upper controls I worked with two of these units for a long time BOTH would not have their upper controls work regularly. I figured out that if you take the lower controls switch and let it off slowly it won’t work up top. But if you flick the switch so it slams back they will work . This was on both machines and happened a lot. Drive people crazy if you didn’t use it for a while you’d forget and not be able to get them to work. Can’t say it’ll help everyone but I figure if they both did it more probably do it too.
I’m having an issue with mine right now after no use for a few years that when I flip the start switch to ON it light up for a second like it’s gonna work then it suddenly clicks and everything goes dead . A few seconds it comes back up and lights come on power on the bay gauge then click everything shuts off no power on the batt gauge . Wait a second and it resets and comes back in doing this over and over . My solenoid is shot but if I jump the solenoid w a starter switch it cranks but won’t start. The solenoid didn’t work last time I used it I just jumped it a starter switch and ran it that way so it used to run like this…
Doesn’t seem like anyone is active here but mine is tripping k11 engine distress every time the key goes on and back up alarm sounds trips resets trios resets. Can crank the engine but won’t start . Any thoughts?
Whatever it was w K11 I got it ti work by bleeding the fuel lines at the banjo fitting and the injectors must have seen air in the system or something. I then also had to replace one joystick controller . I had to go around grove and OEM controls which told me to go to grove. Or min parts got it from Hindley electronics. Problem I’m currently having is the speed switch doesn’t seem to have any effect. One day all hydraulics were running on low speed next it’s running on fast which can be dangerous up in the basket. Need to figure out why my switch doesn’t select the speed as it should .
@MachineheadCT Thanks for the tip on the lower control selector button being a possible cause for the upper controls not functioning. I've been living with using the machine with a grounds man around, but would still love to get this resolved. I used it for a couple hours yesterday and that renewed my interest in getting this resolved. Would be so much handier if the basket controls worked. I'm going to test the lower control button theory tonight, but mine definitely seems to be heat related - and I think I have it tracked down to the 'Power On' relay in the lower control box. Here is a video where I can replicate the problem with just a little bit of warm air - on a cold day when the basket controls work fine.
I've started a FB group for Grove manlifts. The box on my AMz66XT is totally different since my machine is an earlier model.