Good Afternoon from Oz to all the brains trust and experience out there. I have the above machine - pretty knocked about but essential equipment for keeping trees in line and all manner of repairs around the pty. It has its issues but most have been jury rigged and working fine. Stopped a couple of days ago when swing stopped going left and would not stop going right. Then failed shortly afterwards altogether. It had worked previously when circuit board was sprayed with some WD40 or contact cleaner - not this time. Got some very good advices on trouble shooting and when power is given direct to swing A + B on controller swings left and right accordingly. Lower controls work fine. Voltage to swing controller OK but no variation in output when moving controller left or right. Any advices of simple fixes for this controller? Any advices on powering the R/L Swing wires with a substitute controller? Any advices on sources of replacement parts if I cannot source one in Australia reasonably? Thanks MX45. NB 1998 Machine.
That's an OEM controller MX45, pretty typical stuff. And that doesn't mean Original Equipment Manufacturer, rather OEM is the name of the company that produces the controller. The outfit that I purchase replacements from is in US of course, I don't know if they export, but you might send them an email inquiry to find out. > https://www.hindleyelectronics.com Another thing you could try is send an inquiry to OEM and ask if they have an AU distributor. > http://www.oemcontrols.com/ In a pinch, if your machine has the same controller to operate boom extend/retract, you could use that controller to operate swing function then use a double pole double throw momentary return center toggle switch to operate boom ext/retract. It would be a little jumpy as it would be full on/off, but more tolerable on ext/ret as opposed to using a toggle on swing, that would get a little wild.
G'day Willie, Yes - thought about toggle switch but would be wild even jiggling it to get momentary movement - had that when previous owner bypassed signal strength at the solenoids and instituted direct relay and gave full 12 v unimpeded to the solenoid. Not a good choice - don't want to be juggling and moving at maximum at height. I will send an enquiry off and I have an enquiry with an Australian Service Agent but they are unsure if they can supply just the circuit board or the whole controller - either way they are talking hundreds of dollars or more. Not desirable for the occasional weekend warrior use. If I jumped the control functions from another unit - no - I think I would rather put a self centering toggle switch and experiment with a resistor or variable resistor in the circuit to manage the speed - would +ve power to the centering toggle switch and then run that power through (two I think) variable resistors - knob type - it would mean two controls separate for speed and for actual power but would be preferable to full throttle or nothing??? What amperage/wattage do these things work on down below??? ie what power rating on the variable resistor would I need?? Thanks for any input, Regards, MX45.
OH - quick further question - when in the basket it moves a bit from side to side - wear on the pivoting points I think - cant see anything diabolical but how much should they move - this is left to right movement??? thanks Again.
Well, as for what value resistor to choose, you're asking questions I'm not familiar with MX as I'm not an electrical engineer. And moreover that's something I typically don't have to do as these components are rather easy for me to procure here in the states. It's far easier for me to simply replace the faulty circuit card with a replacement. However, I do understand your situation. As for the proposition I made, I'm only saying that it's far more important for swing to be on a proportional control than boom extend/retract. If your machine does use the same type OEM controller to operate boom extend/retract then it would be better to use that controller to replace the faulty swing controller, then rig up the extend/retract with a toggle switch. The option of a resistor to control boom extend/retract speed is a good idea, or even a rheostat, but it may be unnecessary as a number of JLG machines use a simple toggle to control boom extend/retract. My point is, confirmed by a number of JLG machines, it's acceptable to control boom extend/retract with a toggle, but swing needs a proportianal controller. As for the excessive side to side movement of the boom, a bit of slack is normal, clearance between swing gearbox output bull gear and slew ring gear, and this clearance is exaggerated as the boom length increases, an inch at retracted boom becomes a foot at full extend kind of sort of, but more that a couple of feet of side to side drift at full extend may indicate a problem with the swing gearbox.
That is a good idea to swap controller for another - eg boom extend/in to do the control proportionately over the swing movement. I would be content with slow movement on the swing - although I understand slow at short distance can be quite a speed at greater height. What I meant by the movement in the cage/basket was actually standing still - no machine movement when I walk from left to right in the cage it moves a few inches down on either side that I move to - sloppy is how I would describe it - don't know if I should be concerned or if that is normal enough??? I could measure it but should I bother? Cheers, MX45.
G'day Once More, I just emailed Hindley and looked through their catalogue - looks like they have both complete controller and replacement circuit board card - I don't think the mechanicals are any problem so circuit card would probably do the job very well. My part number is GROVE - 937 EMS4M10068 AND THEY HAVE 10068 with options including 937 - looks like a match to me??? Hope to hear back from them and thanks for the advices. Regards, MX45
Happy New Year All, I read about you no posts for machines in need of repair this time of year and so I will update you on mine. After a couple of emails I got a positive response from Hindley - after some sorting a new swing controller is on its' way to Australia for about $350 Australian dollars all up. The cost of that same item from suppliers in Australia was over $800. Some serious middle man profits going on there - I don't blame the eventual supplier in OZ. It is scheduled to arrive about 6th January and I will fit it some time after that and hope diagnosis was correct and part correct replacement. Not worth it for $800 - nearly a thousand for weekend warrior work on my property but at $350 it seemed good to be able to move genuinely as per manufacture and not be walking on glass at 20 meters. Back to the toggle switch idea if this does not work out but should!!! Cheers fellas for the guidance on supply lines and the apparent success here, Regards, MX45
Got my fingers crossed on my end. It's good to hear that Hindley is shipping the part to you, they can supply a good number of electrical parts for your machine should you need them in the future. :drinkup
G'day Willie, Hindley part arrived ad looks great. I will fit it when my list gets a little smaller in a week or two and hope to enjoy safe and controllable swing. Thanks for your help and hope you guys are staying indoors with your weather at the moment, Regards, MX45
G'day Willie et al, And so you all wished for something to do and here I am with a very good challenge for you all and a great frustration for me. I installed the new swing controller to get ------------------ nothing.????????????????? I shorted the +ve power supply to the A and B terminals and got swing just like before with the old swing controller - same result - swing - but no swing on inserting the controller in the circuit???????? No while I have been waiting for the part something similar has gone wrong with the forward reverse controller - the forward has also stopped working - when I short the power supply to the controller to the A and B terminals I get forward and reverse.??????????????????/ So giving full 12 v to the supply side to the solenoids operates the solenoids and gives movement. bottom control panel all works. I am seriously now thinking about putting in those dual pole return to centre toggle switches but should I just wire in the +ve feed line in circuit and use single pole or should I wire it differently. I am certainly at the end of my ability to diagnose the problem here. Other funny things that happen - when the telescope goes to full return I have to release and press again the dead man foot switch to get response from any upper control panel controllers. When using forward before and I used steer the forward would stop immediately - thought it could have been me not using the controller correctly but now I am thinking of some other issue. I do remember you advising me Willie of not doing the toggle switch thing but unless you know of some solution here I cant see a way forward for me. Thanks for any help fellas - yes did double check codes on wires and connections to new swing controller. Oh previously I replaced the small relay in the upper control box right next to the little green light for forward reverse with a larger relay as the small one failed to do the job at all even when replaced with a brand new identical relay??? Seemed it could not supply a required supply of amps/voltage to operate the solenoid. I did try that on the swing with a new relay but did not work prior to ordering new controller. I could try the larger relay on the swing - it is currently on forward reverse but it seems I have some other problem interfering with these functions. Cheers, MX45. PS I am certain this problem will be challenging enough to keep you guys busy thinking in the New Year.
You do have a challenging problem MX. Sadly, I have no experience with the MZ66B. I have worked on the MZ66A, but that was back in the 80's, a long time to draw on memory, and even then I don't know how they compare to the B model. Your new swing card could be simply adjusting the trim pots to work the swing function properly. But again, it's been so long since I've worked with OEM controllers, I really don't recall the adjustment procedure, I'm way more familiar with adjusting PQ controllers used on JLG machines. But I am concerned with the other proportional problems your having, something's curious there. One must always suspect the cables that feeds power to the platform and returns signals. The thing about those cables, with the repetitive bending of the cable from extend/retract, that even though you don't see external damage to the cables, the constant bending of the wires can break the wires inside the cables. Very difficult to diagnose that problem. Just stepping out on a limb, choose any of your proportional controls, put a volt meter on the + terminal of a controller. You should see somewhere near 12V on that terminal when it's powered up. Now work that particular function. If the voltage on the + terminal drops to 9 volt or below, you're going to see operation problems, you need to find out why you have such a voltage drop at the + terminal when a function is being operated. A controller needs a nominal 12V power supply to operate properly. As for the option, operating a proportional function with a toggle switch and a rheostat, I don't know if it would work or not as I've never tried it. Typical controllers, OEM or PQ, send Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) signals to the valve coils. PWM works by sending full voltage, then no voltage, then full voltage, etc. Proportional is determined by the time of how long the duration of full voltage and no voltage to the valve coil. I don't know that a rheostat can replicate this action.
G'day Willie, I was wondering if voltage drop could be a cause - I will do the test you indicate and see what comes up. I might even replace the battery and see if it makes a difference even if testing OK. I did not adjust any trimpots as the controller came with factory settings should be OK and since nothing worked - I thought at least something would work. But symptoms of getting wrong directional movement and then no movement but I get movement when I put the toggle switch in line and supply +ve to the A or B outlets that drive swing or F/R. Strange - but only weekend warrior and so will test a few things, try a few things and then simply put in what I know works in the return to center switch and wire positive feed supply only through. Thanks for your insights - I will let you know what happens, Regards, MX45
G'day Fellas - Update - Murphy's Law Always Applies I eventually bypassed the swing controller as having checked the things I could check - eg substituting a known working rely for the one for swing enable - made no difference - checked voltage at swing controller - 13v+ - and used that voltage source to put power to A and B and getting swing - so just a waste of money on new controller - probably nothing wrong with old controller and cant find out what else it could be. Little green light does not come on for swing enable - so I guess swing is not enable for some reason but works fine on full voltage. Tried adjusting new controller and no change. Murphy's Law - just got the momentary return to center toggle switch in place and works fine and returns really well to get miniscule movement out of swing - wired positive terminal and momentary switch to A or B - left other wires to controller - don't think that makes a difference? Oh Murphys' Law - just got toggle switch operating - had a relieving breath walked to back of machine and got a flow of hydraulic oil running out of machine??????!!!!!!!!!!! Lots of degreaser later I have narrowed it down to the several hydraulic pipes and lines that connect directly beneath the main lift hydraulic cylinder. Looks like a big job to get underneath that. I am thinking on setting the machine up against a steep slope I have - leaving 4 wheels at approach and extending basket to full and then letting drop on high ground so no chance of machine dropping any further - what are your thoughts - I don't know if the hydraulic lines leaking are those to the main cylinder or other lines running to central link hydraulic block located near swing gear drive - going to wheel drives I expect. I would appreciate your thoughts on working safely in this area - looks quite difficult to work in such a confined space and clearly main cylinder must be up a fair way to work under - I now there is the safety stop cylinder but not gong to test my luck with that given all else. Your input please??? Regards, MX45
OK - made some more observations at dusk - easier to see with a torch - looks like a steel line has rubbed against part of the bottom of the main lift cylinder when the main lift cylinder comes to full close when basket is at bottom. Steel line is obviously a bit tall in position for the cylinder position - rubber lines are chafed as well but my bet is on steel line. Looks like with long monkey arms it may be possible to disconnect the steel line and remove as I can access from engine compartment - just maybe? I will have to get repair done or new line - repair is better I expect but will see what the hydraulics gurus say - new line unless exact might not match so maybe better off with joiner on good part of steel line and re-routing a coupled hydraulic hose??? Can they insert a connector on the steel line??? Mmmmmmmmmmmmm? Ideas please?? Thanks MX45
I don't understand what the deal is with the swing controller, and having no experience with the MZ66B doesn't help me. I wish I could tell you what to do with it but I just don't know that machine, but it should either work or have a reason why it doesn't work. :beatsme As for the tubing line, they do make a high pressure compression union for heavy wall hydraulic tubing. I've used them a number of times to repair a rubbed spot in a tube line. Any hydraulic fitting supplier should either have them or be able to obtain them.
G'day Willie, I am over the swing controller - self centering toggle works fine - I am quick on the on/off and it has a strong spring - just tried to fix it right but no good - maybe some little component on the enable swing circuit board - I am sure a tech would understand straight away but I am not one. On to more pressing matters. I have managed to remove the rubbed tube from the space under the main lift cylinder. I have two acrow props at slightly different angles outwards and a pin in the swing lock to be as certain as I reasonably can it wont move/come down. While the pipe looks rubbed I continue to have hydraulic oil accumulate in the bay under the main lift cylinder. I have separate the two hoses that feed the lift cylinder - they are rubbed as well - and am just right now waiting to see if oil accumulates once more - if so where from. In the event (likely) it is one/both of these hoses am I OK to remove these hoses to replace them - I expect the oil will flow out of the main lift cylinder once I remove a hose??? I am a distance from the hydraulics place and so it will take some time to get a replacement(s) made? Any precautions I can take to stop hydraulic loss from cylinder? Any other precautions I can take besides what I already have with the main boom - I allowed the acrow prop to take the pressure of the weight of the boom when I lowered it on to it! Thanks for your advices - I think they are pretty critical to the right process being followed here, Regards, MX45.
If you're disconnecting the hoses to the main boom lift cylinder, the holding valves for the cylinder will prevent it from coming down. However, for safety sake in the event that holding valves are faulty it is prudent to support the boom when disconnecting these hoses. The holding valves are effective in doing their job, it's those valves that would prevent the boom from dropping if you were to blow the boom lift hose with you in the basket, the valve also prevents boom from drifting down. If you have the boom supported you should be fine. Sorry to hear about the troubles.
G'day Willie, Overcast and humid so working not so comfortable but better than full sunshine and becoming crispy! So besides the little lift cylinder behind the main one which I have presumed is a lock cylinder to prevent free fall in the event of a main cylinder fail there are also lock out valves that will prevent the oil leaving the main lift cylinder in the event of a hose fail such as me disconnecting a hose??? I have got to the point of gaining access to the hoses but am still looking at leaking points to make sure I fix the right component. I have sealed the hydraulic tank fill lid airtight to allow a vacuum to be created so leak down would be controlled or stopped. If you are certain main cylinder will not completely leak down I will go ahead and remove two main hoses and replace them??? It is not possible to see the undersides of the hoses until I have them removed and they could quite possibly be rubbed much worse than the top. Also as old as the machine I guess - 1998. The feeder hoses from the pumps and valves are quite cracked on the outside - so don't look good but no big oil spills from there??? Thanks for your advices, Very re-assuring, Regards, MX45.
The small cylinder behind the main boom hoist cylinder is the master leveling cylinder for the platform. When you boom up/down with the main boom hoist cylinder, this causes the master leveling cylinder to be moved in/out sending oil to the leveling cylinder at the platform, this is whats keeps the platform level when you boom up or down. Yes, the main boom hoist cylinder has holding valves on it, these are positive locking valves that "locks" the oil inside the cylinder in the event of a hose failure when boom is elevated. These same holding valves allow you to remove the hoses and not allow boom to come down. But as I stated, for the sake of safety, it's still prudent to support the boom. Disconnect the hoses first from the connection to the control valve, wait for pressure to subside, then disconnect the hoses from connection to boom hoist cylinder.
G'day Willie, Took you at your word and kept a very watchful eye on acrow props. All good! Messy and tight unions and a bit hard to get to and working with metric on USA fittings lol. Both feed lines removed - the ugly part - I did not think to label one for higher fitting and one for lower - I guess if I refit wrong up will be down and down will be up? I guessed by lower fitting having oil spill from upper fitting and labelled as such. One hose looks fine - one hose looks like it burst both sides but up/down still worked - maybe just on its way to a full burst - I will ask the hydraulics guy - but that is for tomorrow. I will take all three - steel and two x rubber and have checked to see what's up??? Thanks for your help - will let you know what happens - cheers, MX45.
Yes, operation will be reversed if you get them switched. And here's where I leave Murphy's Law behind and insert my own wisdom. In this case, conventional wisdom would say you have a 50/50 chance of getting it right/wrong. I maintain there's no such thing as 50/50, it's more like 70/30 or 80/20 that you'll get it wrong at first go as opposed to getting it right. It's just the nature of odds, hence the reason a Casino is profitable.
G'day, OK - Hydraulics guy tested two hoses and one pipe. One hose failed test and was leaking where I thought it was bubbled. He has replaced with double strength (steel re-enforcing x 2) hose. I am having both hoses made up as both same age even though one tests OK - better to replace while set up for replacement than to have to do the same process again sometime soon for those hoses. Could not figure how you would get to the hoses if you blew one while boom was fully down??? How would you lift the boom to get to the attachments since the boom fills the capture void in the machine??? So I will get about re-fitting these hoses perhaps tomorrow. I will try to take some photos for future reference if anyone needs them later. Regards, MX45
G'day Willie, et al, Well after much struggling in the very small space with very inflexible hydraulic lines I managed to get all three lines back in. I put a hard plastic cover over the scraped metal line even though it was not leaking under 3000 psi and replaced both hydraulic lines. When I cut the old fitting off the leaking line to salvage a fitting the parrot beaks went through it like cheese - so I think it was pretty up to its use by date - so glad to have replaced both. I previously had to cut a hydraulic line on an excavator - much tougher job - line was OK - just bent out of shape and suffered a natural failure at too great a bend - just did not notice. Huey smiled on me - managed to get up on up valve and down on down valve. I am leaving the cage up overnight so I can look at the lines in the morning to see if there are any leaks missed or new ones. Fingers crossed. Lesson - I also had a good look at the fuel glass bowl pre cleaner and it had crud in it so I decided to clean it out. Motor would nto subsequently start - fuel starvation. In the end after near smoking the starter motor - really did have smoke - I stopped!!!! Did some thinking as pre-filter does not have primer pump. Lift pump does not have primer handle no manual. Fuel lines come out of top of tank???????????????????? So figured I would put air compressor line into return line feed into main fuel tank - now cap has vent of course and only put hard metal hose part up against fuel return line so air could escape so as not to over pressurise - but gave a spurt and heard vent going on cap - waited for fuel to come through return line and re-connected. Motor started first go and ran for five minutes so don't anticipate any further immediate troubles. I will attach photos shortly but have to re-size. Running again I think - but for certain check it out tomorrow. Nearly 60 - maybe it is time to leave this tree lopping for other younger folk??? Cheers MX45
No, me thinks the "younger folk" would not make it nearly as interesting MX. Keep up the good work.
I don't know if I have attached photos or not??? Anyway - support acrow prop under - there were two prior to repair. Then centre pipe at back was removed and re-routed with protective plastic cover to avoid scraping the main cylinder - I think original route was simply wrong! They new hydraulic hoses at back and re-routed to go under and no pipe on top - and with protective plastic sleeve as well. Then bank of connections at rear in slide retainer with plastic clips. Then photo from back with section for slide retainers - not used by me - will plastic tie once I know no current leaks? Regards, MX45
Dang that's a clean center rotating area, nice work MX.
G'day Willie, Yes - I like to keep things clean so a person can see what is happening. I also degreased prior to diagnosing otherwise lost cause and still filthy in sections that catch crud where degreaser does not cut it. Like to fix things so they are fixed!!! However sometimes that theory goes out the window like the swing controller - probably got two swing controllers now probably both working and used a $3 switch to solve the problem - so long as I am quick with the fingers no problem. So sometimes repairing to a high standard does not work - put two new wheel bearing packs and ball joints in an old Ford - 1988 Wagon - registered and insured etc - then less than three weeks later the head gasket blew or oil ring - probably head corroded. Cost of fix worth more than the car - such is life! Cheers Willie - hope the pictures help someone one day to see what is underneath if facing similar problem, Regards, MX45
OK - checked out the movement of the main lift cylinder and the feed hydraulic lines - no joy in placing in any position with the current feed positions from the sliding block meant to control their positions. Trouble is the bottom of the main cylinder was pressing/scraping the hydraulic lines and forcing them backward and compressing one which was getting caught underneath. Not happy!!! Put some cable ties on the two lines to hold them together but still wriggled to under the cylinder and became pushed and compressed. Moved sliding holding block at back with plastic conduit space to hold to LHS and joy but not enough. Ended up tying off the new hydraulic lines with some rope and pulling through access hole and tying off on fixed point - this lifted the hydraulic lines out of the way of the main cylinder and stopped the compression/drag on them which would have made a very short life for them. Jury rigged but tie off point is on main power up switch so I will see the line very time I start the machine. Not well rigged - too easily in the wrong position and compressed - should be OK now!!! Regards, MX45
I can see why you had to pull those hoses to one side with the rope, the manifold block with the holding valve would scrape those hoses otherwise when cylinder is retracted. Grrrrrrr.
swing controller Hello all, New here. I have a 1980 MZ46. Been having the same issue for years. Swing works fine to the right, slower than molasses to the left, works fine from the lower control. Finally broke down and purchased a new control from Hindley (20 minute drive for me) no change. Checked all the wires and connections with ohm meter, all good. Found a terminal strip in the top of the lower control panel with a bunch of resisters. The screws on the wire connections in front were tight, but the ones on the resisters were loose, so I tightened them. Now nothing works but the drive, and it is real slow. I'm thinking it's time for a floatation test.
G'day, could be the adjustments but if you bought a new controller - I did as well - equally no result. I did read elsewhere that some component in the lower control box was not responding well for another similar failure. Don't remember the detail. I cut my time losses and wired a toggle switch and use it manually intermittently just like the real proportionate switch does. If you are quick enough it does the job but could be hairy if you are not quick on/off with the toggle switch. You could try replacing the little relay in the top switch box relevant to the controller - I replaced the one for the four wheel drive - had no joy - jury rigged a far bigger relay - works fine now - I don't know why - I just know it worked - don't fix it if it is not broken. I am only on property and use it occasionally to save on big contracting fees when one of those trees gets precarious. Comes a time not too far away when I will succumb and pay the younger legs to do those jobs and sell the iron anyway. For mine the toggle switch works fine - just when wanting to slow or slow down to stop you have to switch on and off not just straight off - it jerks too much. Hope something helps here. Regards, MX45
hola, muchas gracias a todos por los post, les comento que hace un tiempo estoy tratando de reparar un Grove Aerial Manlift MZ66B, el problema es que le pusieron la bateria con la polaridad alreves, y no encendio nunca mas, ya repare la Grove Aerial Manlift Relay Board Ass’Y Lcb, reemplaze muchos relays, y tambien repare Model SA Actuator or Model SF Actuator Used with a Model E-211 Controller, pero sigo sin tener tension en contacto o encendido, solo funciona la bocina. necesito si alguien me podria enviar el manual de servicio de la mz66b, o el diagrama electrico, yo soy de Argentina y aca no hay nadie q repare esas cosas, el trabajo me vino bien ya que estamos pasando una situacion economica muy mala, les agradeceria si alguien me podria suministrar la informacion desde ya muchas gracias. [email protected] Hello, thank you very much to everyone for the post, I comment that some time ago I am trying to repair a Grove Aerial Manlift MZ66B, the problem is that they put the battery with the polarity alreves, and never lit again, and repair the Grove Aerial Manlift Relay Board Ass'Y Lcb, replace many relays, and also repair Model SA Actuator or Model SF Actuator Used with a Model E-211 Controller, but I still have no contact or ignition voltage, only the horn works. I need if someone could send me the manual of service of the mz66b, or the electrical diagram, I am from Argentina and here there is no one to repair those things, the work came to me well since we are going through a very bad economic situation, I would thank you If someone could give me the information already and thank you very much. [email protected]