Looking at a GN trailer to haul skid steer around and coming to a question I keep back tracking on. Does the pin weight give you basicslly a higher gvw for the trailer? What i mean is lets say 14k gvw / 10k payload trailer, hypothetically 2k pin weight, can i haul the 12k on it even though if it were unhooked the gvw would be 16k. I understand the load transfer but I see the trailer still supporting more load then rated and thats my rub on that. Please enlighten me so I don't get railroaded by DOT.
Before I go make my popcorn, this is what I know. In ND, you can put 48k on a tridem all day long in the summer, 52.8k in the winter with a 10%. Depending on empty weight of the whole rig, these trailers will have 72-75k in the box, day after day, all winter long. Nobody that I've ever heard has been hassled by the DOT here, as long as GVW and axle weights are good. The tags on these trailers say max GVW should be 75k. I'm making my popcorn now.
We are in BC so not sure about your jurisdiction. But notice on these tags how the 14k trailer is shown with a GVWR of 15,432lbs (allowing tongue weight transfer) to tow unit. As we haul with a single axle tractor I can put substantial weight (a lot more than a pickup) on the tow unit. Works good for our small equipment, allowing us to scale (on electric brake trailer) under the required 4600kg (10,000lbs)
GVWR is just what its registered for and not the way you are thinking. Its not 14k plus the tongue/pin weight. Doesnt matter if its a semi with special seasonal limits as mentioned above (way to confuse the poor guy), every trailer has a GVWR thats the max legal weight allowed no matter if its attached or sitting on its jacks.
Right, but like the guy above you kinda noted, dot isnt making you drop the trailer alone on the scale, or ive never heard of such. As long as you scale on all axles should be ok right? I assume the trailer manufacturers rate the trailer more so on axle and tire limits than the structural portion of it? If im running over a scale with a 14k gvw trailer with 13,900 on its axles they arent concerning themselves with tongue weight as long as the truck or its axles aren't over? And i totally get what youre saying. Hooked up though you're transitioning weight to something else though, sitting jacked it is though, thats my confusion.
Most tags should have two numbers. GVWR and GAWR. One is the total the trailer can carry payload plus empty trailer weight and one is the rating of the axles. In my experience a lot of smaller trailer companies don’t do it right. For example, my 55 ton lowboy is rated at 135,000. It has three 25k axles which is only 75k. The 135k is the empty weight of the trailer plus the payload. They’re accounting for the trailer putting weight on the truck via the neck. We won’t get into the extra axles etc to legally scale that 55 ton. Around here they look at GVWR of tow vehicle, GVWR of trailer, GVW you are registered for. If they weigh you they’ll make sure you don’t exceed axle rating, tire rating or registered GVW. Unfortunately there’s often grey area with smaller trailers and it’s mainly due to the mfgr not doing the VIN plate correctly.
I have a tri axle (6 tires) It is rated at 21500. GVWR. It has three 7500 LB axles, Still, the trailer gross as it sits on a scale unhitched from the truck is the nameplate weight of 21500. Truck tow rating is sometimes greater with a gooseneck trailer than a platform hitch. Gooseneck, or tag along, total weight adding on tires & tongue weight should not exceed the nameplate GVWR.
Gotcha, I think I understand. Technically you could be over gvw on my hypothetical setup but scaling it kinda hides the pin weight, unless they made you unhook. My setup i was thinking was i have a 10k skid, my heaviest attachment is 2200#, so 12200. I was looking at a trailer, was near 5k empty and 16k gvw. So 17200 gross, 1200 over gvw, illegal, but ill have a couple thousand in pin weight as well. I mean as I see it, it would scale fine. Sound right? Sounds like a grey area to me.
Do you have a CDL?
Trailer mfgs are rating it on all of the above. If you routinely overload the mfgs GVWR you're going to eventually have trouble, regardless of whats legal. Some trailers are built heavy an meant to carry a lot of tongue weight, others are not. The structural aspect of the trailer absolutely is figured in to GVWR. From a legal perspective, even if you can get by DOT, heaven forbid you were ever in a wreck. Lawyers would have a field day knowing you were intentionally overloading the trailer past GVWR and being willfully negligent based on what you posted in this thread.
Nope, trying to stay under if at all possible, and trying to understand the ins and outs before making any decisions on what trailer and licensing may be needed. Thinking the trailer im looking at to serve multiple purposes may not work as such due to curb weight, its close but still over. Its funny weight compounds so quickly.
this might as were some of your questions. The weights you are talking about you are going to need a CDL. Not sure how much the ticket is for hauling without but the class for the CDL is probably cheaper.i did it for a long time because I honestly didn't know. My dad was a trucker and drove a ready mix truck, I associated those kinds of rigs when the need for a CDL. Sadly we never got to have a more in depth conversation about all the other vehicles and combination their of that required a special license. I took my CDL with a 1 ton manual and my gooseneck
Yes unfortunately Im running the numbers and coming up with that same conclusion. Might just have to get a cdl then i wont have to worry about skimming under it and I can just get the trailer to be right for the load.
In my area even the landscape guys are supposed to have depending on what size their tow vehicle is and what size trailer they have. I would bet most of them don't.
Vermont & a lot of other States have a simple rule: If your trailer is rated for 10,000 LBS or more, you need CDL. Yet elsewhere it says combined GVWR of trailer & truck must be over 26,000 for this to apply. All this has no influence on load carried. Empty, the rig still needs CDL. Air brakes are confusing, I can't get a clear answer on them. You need air brake endorsement over 26,000, it seems not if under 26,000.
Yes, get your class A CDL. I think it's well worth the time and money for anyone in construction, excavating, etc, it opens up so many options. The 26000lb gross weight requirement for a CDL (either straight truck or truck+trailer) is federal. Some states it seems add the more stringent 10000lb trailer requirement, but I personally have never come across that. It used to be with a 3/4 ton pickup (8500-8800GVWR) or a 1 ton pickup (10000GVWR) you had a lot of trailer choices to still be legal and under CDL. Nowadays the pickup mfg's keep bumping up the GVWR making it difficult to be legal to tow many trailers, despite the trucks having a higher tow rating. My regular cab 2019 F250 has a GVWR of 10K and I think the extended and crew cab versions are 11K+. One tons are getting up into the 14K GVWR now which doesn't leave much room to legally tow a trailer of any weight. I know they keep bumping up the specs to sell more trucks, but I think they are headed in the wrong direction. While I have a class A CDL, I try to keep my pickup + trailer under 26K gross so family, friends, workers can legally drive it if need be, this is getting increasingly harder to do with a 15K trailer.
OP just plan on getting your CDL. About to send 2 guys with a dually and 15K lb trailer to get theirs. Here in AL that will get them a Class A pintle/gooseneck with no air brake license. After they get their license I plan on swapping up our 14K gooseneck to a dual 22.5 gooseneck. I have a class A with no restrictions, luckily got mine when it was wide open.
I have a class A with no tractor trailer commercial They didn't use to put the restriction of no commercial tractor trailer when taking it with a gooseneck, a friend of my has a restriction free (other than air brakes he didn't take that test) I however do but I don't own a semi and don't have anything with air brakes, if/when I do, I just have to go back down take the air brake written test and will receive another permit and then do the pre trip inspection with the semi, I won't have to take the driving test and I don't automatic restriction because I took my original test with a manual transmission
In VT I drive down any highway, see 22 year old mini vans. There is a 110 LB man in the driver's seat, 300 LB woman passenger, three donut spares, 1 or 2 broken windows, a dirty kid hanging out any that'll open. They have no exhaust system, no inspection. Police don't bother them. A truck, now that's a different matter.
If you have a 10K GVW trailer, you do not need a CDL Class A in the US. The trailer empty weight may be about 2500 lb so, so, so that leaves a 7000lb machine plus all the chain binders and anything else on the trailer such as an extra bucket. If you have a 14K GVW Trailer, they look the same but have bigger 7K axles. Weight of the trailer might be the same, but now you can haul 10,000 lb. More weight than that and the frame work of the trailer may start to bend. For the 14K GVW trailer you need a CDL class A to use it, although many home owners just risk it. As already said, you need a big enough truck with legal towing capacity and with a hitch with the right class designed to haul that amount of weight. The way that I went, I bought a used Equipment trailer with surge brakes that has 7K axles, but the GVW is 10K. Although I have a class A CDL, it give you the ability to have a 10K GVW trailer and tow a bit more than you should and still be trailer safe - until State Patrol weighs you etc..
That may be true in your state, but that is not the federal law. There is a lot of confusion from the wording of the law. Only a handful of states require a CDL for any trailer over 10K, the 26K gross law is nation wide however.
Sorry folks, I think you're right in his state about the trailer 14GVW. My bad. Still, he should say if he's driving as a business and what the weight of his truck is and towing capacity is, and if he is going interstate, and what model/make and weight of his skidsteer. Many track loaders with attachments are too heavy even for a 14 gvw trailer. He may need a DOT number too. Besides his local State DOT laws, he should as you say check out the FMSCA rule book.
Vermont does both. A trailer GVWR over 10,000 requires CDL. Elsewhere in VT law it states only combined ratings over 26,000 need CDL, regardless of trailer rating.
I rhink the 26k thing came about with single axle moving vans. You could move a house hold of goods with hydro boost and staying under 26k. Summer time jobs, no trailer, just learn how to grind the 2 speed properly.
Those is what I state says about ityou Amy e able to find something similar for your state https://kansashighwaypatrol.gov/find-a-troop/troop-location-map/technical-operations-bureau/troop-i/commercial-vehicle-faqs/#
The 10k trailer doesnt apply im my state, only 26001 +. Im quite one the line of needing a cdl or not depending on which trailer i pick. The 2200# attachment isnt the norm, more like 600lb buckets. So maybe 10.6k the skid weighs, will just have to run numbers.
What truck are you planning to pull it with?
Vermont Store Fixture near me has a fleet of single axle 20 foot van bodied trucks GVWR 25999 LBS. All have Allison automatic transmissions. A 10 year old farm kid could handle one, no speccial license required.
I drove a Culligan truck that was rated at 26,000 no CDL required
26 2500. Gvw 10850. Need to look at axle weights yet, haven't gotten that far. Thought about the cdl route or derate a 16k trailer to 15150, puts me at 26k and depending on trailer weight may be in the ballpark of net weight I need 10-11 ideally. Its damn close. This is just personal stuff so no need for cdl unless weight requires it.
I understand your desire for a gooseneck, but that's also part of your problem. They are a good bit heavier than a standard fender equipment trailer leaving you less cargo capacity. My setup is a '19 F250 regular cab long bed GVWR of 9900lb and a bumper pull Kaufman 20' fender style equipment trailer with a GVWR of 15000lbs. Trailer is 3300lbs empty leaving me a legal cargo of 11,700lbs all while staying under 26K.
A local guy dropped out of his family business. I believe weed was a big part of his motivation. His father belongs to a "club". Through the club he gets reduced insurance rates. Part of it means surprize pee samples. There are plenty of insurance companies don't check your urine, this one does. Son chose to surrender his CDL to avoid this. He has gone on his own, keeping his fleet under CDL limits.
can you just go get your license down there. Here anything above a car license, you have to take minimum entry level training to get your license. I wrote my permit on a monday, and did my road test on Wednesday. No more of that since 2024. Too many new Canadians getting into wrecks. I can drive a 1 ton with a car license, and haul a 2 axle trailer same way, but a 3 axle is need a class 1 same as a semi, but no air brake endorsement. But I could jump in a bus sized camper or 3 axle 5th wheel travel trailer with no more than what I need yo drive a car
I think I'm more confused than when I started reading this thread. I have a truck that empty weighs 7,100 lbs GVW sticker on door says 8,900 lbs, so 1,700 lb payload. I have a trailer rated at 11,600 lbs payload it has 2, 7,000 lb axles. As long aI don't put more than 11,600 lbs on my trailer and 1,700 lbs on my truck I should be legal and safe. At 22,900 lbs fully loaded I'm well under the 26,000 limit of a non CDL driver. Where have I fallen off the logic wagon?
I can't find the exact wording, but when your trailer by itself weighs more than 10,000 pounds, you need a CDL to pull it if it's not farm or recreational.
In our State, it's need a CDL if your trailer has over a 10,000 GVW. The trailer empty might only have a weight of 2-3K pounds for car trailer, but a empty dump trailer might have a weight of 3-4K. In some States you can use a 14,000 GVW trailer without a CDL. The trailer may have a similar weight to and empty 10K car trailer, but have a empty weight of 6,500k for a dump trailer. A full size equipment trailer with 3 axles and 12 tires may have a empty weight of 10K, and a GVW of over 40K. Also, in some States it may not matter if it's a business or homeowner. To not overload your trailer, you take the GVW of the trailer and subtract the empty weight. That is the weight, the load of the trailer can haul legally.
Good info, I did a little research for the state of Washington. It appears a private party can pull a trailer weighing over 10,000 lbs as long as the total weight of trailer and tow vehicle is not over 26,000 lbs. If the trailer is being used for a business "Equipment for hire" then the limit is 10,000 lbs. This is from an AI bot. I did not read the actual RCW.
You are correct under the Federal Rules. Now States can be more restrictive on their rules. Here in AL the state goes by the Fed rules only so as long as the gross combined weight of a vehicle and trailer are under 26K lbs no CDL is required. I can pull our 14K lb GVW skid steer trailer behind a single rear wheel F350 at 11,500 LB GVW with out a CDL. 14+11.5= 25.5K under CDL. We have a 15K GVW skid trailer that would push that combo into class A territory - 26.5K GCWR. Peter G is in your state so he knows more about WA CDL rules which appear to be more restrictive than the Feds so I would take his advice.
I have the VT book. If I understand, other States each have their rules, but they align with each other when they can. Vermont states the nameplate GVW of the trailer triggers the absolute CDL requirement at 10,000 LBS. This is not scale weight, this is manufacturer rated weight. Several paragraphs later they list an exemption for truck & trailer nameplate total under 26,000. In VT, you can drive a 14000 LB rated trailer towed by a 12,000 LB GVWR truck without a CDL. A 14,000 ratedtrailer towed by a12,001 LB rated truck needs a CDL class A license. Truth is: many Troopers don't know this. A young friend called me one day. He was working on Martha's Vineyard Massachusetts, his boss sent him to VT to bring a truck load of steel back. Island prices are crazy, they could buy steel in VT, with trucking & ferry fees it was cheaper up here. The truck he drove was rated 25,000 GVWR. It was well under rated load. The driver was a licensed Vermont resident. Vermont Troopers red flagged the truck, quoted a vague law that doesn't exist. No fine, but they wouldn't let him finish his trip to Massachusetts. A Vermont CDL driver was needed to drive the vehicle to the State line. It made no sense. There was no law cited he had violated. It wasn't worth the legal battle. I drove the truck to the Mass. State line, he finished his trip.
He obviously didn't smile and flirt with the troopers like he should have.
I don't eat popcorn it gets stuck in my teeth. * A word that has been left out of each post "combination". Think of it in terms of combination, stay under the Herman Cane {25,999} by combined {Tare} weight, leaving total {Net} weight including chains and binders, net weight loaded evenly to distribute over axle groups. And one thing to remember {If you think your load looks/is excessive, DOT sure as hell is going to let you know it is}. * Just be glad DOT isn't checking axle spread between power unit and trailer, but it won't be long and DOT will be dragging out the tape measure, which will add a whole other dimension to the HC--999 theory. They need to add bridge weights.
That's worked for you in the past? I'm not that pretty. Maybe standards are different up there.
Lol. My point is he was probably a big richard, and the troopers treated him accordingly.