Takeuchi TL 140 with 4JG1T Isuzu engine has been hard to start since I got it. I've since had the injectors rebuilt by a qualified local outfit. I replaced the heaters at the same time. I've since replaced the injector pump with a new OEM pump, adjusted the valves, replaced the fuel hoses and the fuel pump and the fuel solenoid. When I did the injectors I checked compression which was fine. The only thing that has made a difference was the injector pump. A buddy of mine has a couple of these with less hours and mine will outperform his since the injector pump replacement but it can still be hard to start and blow white smoke for a couple minutes. What am I missing?
Timing of the injection
Timing is by the book. It's losing prime over a period of time. If I bleed it after it sets for a few days it starts easy and runs smooth from the beginning. If I let it set for 2 or 3 days it starts and dies immediately then has to be cranked for a bit to go again and when it does start it only runs on 2 or 3 cylinders for a short period of time before it straightens out but still blows white smoke for a minute or more. Once it clears up it runs great?????
Well, you’re sucking air from somewhere. Some machines are just hard to start. My Kubota V2203 likes the glow plugs if it’s below 60 degrees. My Case 580 SE can be on and off, really doesn’t like winter fuel blend. My other Kubota, doesn’t care what temperature, starts right up. Think a lot of it has to do with the amount of Either used, throughout its life. Had a Ford 7.3 that wouldn't start without either, was addicted to the stuff.
How long is the glow plug lamp staying lit, or is it coming on at all? Spec for a lot of the Taki's was to not pre-heat unless the coolant temp showed 32deg F or less.
Yep it's sucking alright but I won't give up until I find out why. My Kubota needs the glow plugs ignited shortly even if it's 100 degrees outside or 10 below 0 but it fires right up and is ready to go. My Ford 6.7 fires right up no matter the temp and all you have to do is look at it and it knows you're ready to go. I hit the plug switch and it lights up for I'm guessing 4 to 5 seconds. I get the feeling it needs the plugs lit up no matter the temp. Below 32 I cycle it twice and the second time it will disengage in about 2 seconds but it does make a difference.
Some engines need the glow plugs for all initial starts no matter how warm the temperature is. Kubota's with indirect injection are known for it but I don't think that's your issue. You have a filter, fuel line or fitting with a slight leak and are losing prime. What do you have for filters and is there a check valve to prevent fuel from draining back? Some have installed electric fuel pumps to give positive pressure to the injection pump if nothing can be found to cause the loss of prime. On my Cummins 8.3 a shorter filter solved the loss of prime problem. It can be hard to find tiny air leaks. Have you tried spraying soapy water on all the fuel system to look for leaks? Have also heard of the O-ring on fuel filters not giving a proper seal.
Wondering if the glow plugs are not staying on long enough or how many amps did each and every one draw. Were they clamp metered for current to ensure each one works. Have you tried direct power to them to see if it makes a difference. These things need to be ruled out. Simon C
The fact that it starts easy after bleeding but gets worse the longer it sits makes me wonder about the return side of the fuel system. Try pinching off the return line after shutdown and let it sit for a few days. If it starts noticeably better, I'd start chasing the return hoses, banjo washers, and leak-off fittings. Hope it helps!
On my machines with glow plugs, I put a crappy Amazon voltage gauge. This is to let me know batteries condition and to specifically look for volts draw, when glow plugs are activated. This helps know that they are all working and their health. I kinda memorize the draw and keep an eye on it, for possible problems.
That is cool! Some machines I worked on have glow plug test procedure using an ohm meter. This is the range and they are good or bad. But what do you do when it still will not cold start. Jumper cables hooked up to a battery and a glow plug. Good ones usually start to turn orange in 3 - 5 seconds. Some do not but still ohm out.
An OHM test is not quite as accuate as live power to them with the amount of current measured with a micro clamp meter. Then if one is weak it will be instantly visible on the meter. Simon C
I have literally repaired or replaced the complete fuel system including the addition of a one way valve. The only exceptions are the filter head and the separator but even the seals have been replaced on them. I spoke to a guy this morning who told me he went through the same things on one when it was new and he ended up changing the separator even though he could find nothing wrong with it but it cured the problem. He's going to pick me up a replacement and we'll see if that matters. I can't imagine but I'm gonna give it a try.
If I can get the glow plugs out, I just hit wire them from the battery and if they don’t get red hot in 3 to 4 seconds, I replace them. The 6 dollar volt meter isn’t a perfect idea, it just takes a 1/2 hour to install and gives me an idea of what’s going on. I have about a 50/50% on OHMing out glow plugs. Sometimes they test good but don’t work. I think an amneter gauge would work better but I think the cheap volt meter works fine. My Kubota used to have a glow plug light but has not worked for about 15 years. Thats what gave me the idea for m other machines. Thinking of putting a hot start on my Case 580 SE for next winter.
Some Isuzu engines has a screen on the banjo fittings on either the fuel pump or the lift pump or sometimes the hand primer pump. Check that this screen is not plugged up.
OK guys you probably won't believe this actually cured the problem but it did. I acquired a used separator and cleaned it up, resealed everything, changed it out and it now starts great. The one I took off I had completely resealed previously so just to make sure all was good I used a magnifying glass to look it over good and I assure you there is nothing to be seen. I even pressurized the thing and let it set for 2 days and it never lost any pressure at all. As I've said before, I had already either replaced or resealed the whole fuel system. I had cleaned and resealed the filter head and the separator but replacing the separator with a used one has cured the rest of the problems and I have no idea why or how.
I just saw this thread--nothing weird about it. Carrier refrigeration units use Kabota, and some of the early units had a separator that had/could have same issues. Then all later units went to a spin on. I personally never ran into it but was told that by a refer mechanic.
Old Syko, Can you post a photo or diagram (or both) of your seperator? It would be interesting to see what yours looks like. And congratulations on getting this figured out and sharing the results here on HEF.
You might have a bad glow plug if the glow lamp doesn't glow. That was the problem with the Kubota in my skid steer. It would still start but have a slight miss until the one cylinder was warm enough. I got NGK glow plugs at NAPA that are the same as original. The glow lamp limits how much power goes to the glow plugs. I tried testing the glow lamp off a battery but it burned it out. The problem was a bad glow plug and not the glow lamp. I got a new glow lamp at the Kubota engine dealer. Much cheaper than going through the OEM equipment manufacturer.
Maybe but on the coldest days, if you turn the key to the left, for a few seconds, even though no glow lamp, it starts on all three, immediately.
I don't know if it's possible for a glow plug(s) to still work but be weak? Have read the glow lamps can get kind of glazed over and hard to see if they're glowing.
Glow plug ends can get encased in carbon, which will make their output less in terms of heat, but as for being on or off I would say they are on or off or intermittent dependant on a power supply. Simon C
I do not know if I would describe it as you did but yes they can do something like that.