Good afternoon all, I"m sure it has been discussed. I'm potentially looking to haul a Case 580 Super M Series 2 backhoe. I would purchase a 30 foot gooseneck 25900K trailer to haul. I have a 3500 to haul it, which is rated to haul 21K(I know its over the rated weight). Being its personal use do I need to worry about having a CDL? Tractor weighs in at 17,500.
Sorry dont know about the cdl but I have about the same hoe and trailer but a Dodge 2500. I hauled mine about 20 miles home when I bought it. Let me tell you , you know their is a load back their. We have hills here. I made it but bent my loading ramp unloading it. I would never haul it very far thats for sure. They are heavy, never be able to stop in emergency. I had a 580c that I hauled was way easier . Good luck
Moved a friends 580E Case TLB, was not the best thing I have done with a Single Wheel Goose, not sure truck would have liked it anymore with a Dual Wheel setup. Had forks, a Spare rear bucket and two spares, only 12 MOSTLY Flat miles, was enough for me.
Most states adopt language much like federal guidelines. In VT there is contradictory language. If your loaded trailer weighs more than 10,000 LBS You need CDL, Then there is an exemption if combined weight is under 26,000. I guess your truck weighs 7-8000+Trailer 5-6000+17,500 I make it at least 29,500 combined. You need CDL unless Michigan law differs. Here, you get licensed for what you drive when you test. You might want to try to find a fifth wheel rig to test.
How many times will you be moving it ? Lot of miles a year ? The biggest concern would be safety and insurance. IMHO. There was a thread on HEF quite awhile ago about a feller that lost one offa trailer and I think it killed someone in the adjacent lane of traffic.
A friend is always offering to haul mine like that with his Ram diesel 3500 dually and trailer but I know it would be over weight and a risk. I have a class A CDL but I wouldn't do it. If things go bad it wouldn't be worth it. As simple as one flat tire and the cops happen by, get to thinking about how much it weighs, start checking things out and you'll wish you had stayed home. I found a guy with more suitable means and pay to have mine moved the few times I need to. Not as convenient but a lot less stressful.
10 miles, I drive the tractor. It simply makes sense. By the time I do a proper pre trip inspection, load the tractor, chain it, it is quicker to drive it down the road.
Around here you need a tag on machine.
I do some things like that sometimes. Have CDL and agricultural exemption in some cases. As redranch and DMiller said you are really pushing the envelope on what you can do with the equipment you have. The regulations can be found at Regulations/FMCSR. Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration. That is the federal laws buts some states enforce them differently. I thank any truck rated for 26,001 Lbs + and or a trailer rated at 10,001 Lbs + requires a CDL without an exemption. You can read it yourself. No hear say that way. A man I have known for years told me his neighbor bought a small dozer. Brought it home with his new 4 door dually. While unloading it in the driveway it lifted the rear truck tires. He locked up when it started to roll. It did not jack knife because there were trees on both sides of the drive. They straightened it up as both sides of the truck beat off of them. It stopped with half the truck through the garage wall. Food for thought?
The line between agricultural, & commercial is fuzzy. I can drive anywhere I want for agricultural purposes. Nobody troubles themself to question a tractor on the highway. Keep your nose clean, the reaction for driving a tractor on a secondary road is nothing compared to trailer it with some minute detail wrong. I got the full inquest because I had a tail light out. 4:50 PM on a January day, I left a job 10 miles from home. I was towing an empty trailer cause there was $500 in chains on it, I wanted in a more secure place. I noticed the running lights were out, but I had brake & flashers on the trailer. A welfare rat can drive a 25 year old rusted out mini van with three donut spares, no registration, no inspection, 1 light, with no risk of being stopped. A truck with one flaw will be treated like a criminal. That January, the cop demanded to know if I was armed. My answer wasn't crisp enough for him, he unlatched his gun, gripped it. I repeated: "NO." "HAVE YOU BEEN DRINKING?!!!!" I replied: "No." "Do you know why I stopped you?!!!" I said: "Yes." 30 minutes later he sent me on my way with a stern warning to NEVER drive on public roads again without trailer running lights!
When he asked if you were armed you should have said yes left armed and right armed
Thanks, Currently I have it hauled 240 miles. I would think a new 1 Ton dually could haul it(according to their towing capabilities). I was hoping I could purchase a trailer and have no issues. Doesn't look like its worth it. Thank you!
Many years back, I drove 18 wheel OTR. Remember that on a DOT or a weigh station stop they also weigh it by axle. The load needs to be situated so that no axle is over its rating. Hard to do sometimes when you push the max capacities. I know... got a $1000 ($1/lb) ticket in S. Calif. once. Luckily the company paid it.
The CDL process for me was a real ordeal. I suspect the State of Vermont intentionally throw as many obstacles in my way as possible. Meanwhile I saw Cassella, the big trash hauler here passing drivers through the process easily. Some of these people I doubt could pass the written test without help.
Never that lucky, any fines I received came out of my revenue. Routinely hauled a 180 Allis with loader and a 3008 Bush Hog with other supplies on my SW GN, axles rated at 7K tires only good to 6K so a 12K weight capacity with a 7400# Tractor and 1800# Bush hog with a Thermodyne Welder, extra Fuel, then in truck tools, supplies, extra gear. Figured was at or just under trailer capacity nearly every trip. Truck needed 24K license to make it weight legal as next lower plate 18K in MO. Considered AG and Personal got flagged down by MSHP who stated MoDOT personnel called them, had me return to scale at St. Clair, scaled under License but CLOSE on trailer axles, weighed out at 11990 across the two, got scolded but sent on AFTER their Inspection, found ONE lamp out, was unplugged. Even breakaway battery was charged. Did not give any crap of 8' Bush hog hanging over edges and congratulated for using proper chain down.
I know what your saying. I've seen drivers that can't speak English. How did they do the written test or read the road signs without a translator?
Vermont DOT is wicked, but there state inspection standards must be lax, because we see Vermont cars over here buying tax free groceries that you wonder how they pass inspection and are on the road. As far as the CDL, if the weight rating for the F350 (13000lb guessing) and the Trailer (25,000lb rating) is over 26,000 lb you need a CDL, no matter what is on the trailer. The question is "Commercial" is the backhoe you are hauling for the purpose of commercial enterprise, Lets say you own a backhoe for the sole purpose of driving your girlfriend around random back roads and fields ( you have the right here in the USA ) then this is not for commercial purposes and does not need a CDL. The reason an RV doesnt need a CDL is because of the non comercial purpose. Good luck finding a DOT officer that believes the backhoe is for non comercial purpose. Remember they only know what is written in the FMCA Handbook.
My former dental hygienist went to Alaska when she got her nursing degree. She worked second shift at a hospital She was gorgeous. At midnight she got stopped by a trooper. Snow blocked the light on her license plate. As he's writing her ticket, a truck drives by, he waves all friendly. She protested "He didn't even have a door!" Cop explained: "HE didn't have an inspection sticker." Inspection is optional here. You can't get insurance without it, or a car loan. No sticker, no defective equipment laws. Vermont doesn't have that on the books, but it is universally accepted. We have thousands of 25 year old junks 3 donut spare tires, plastic & duct tape over a few windows, No exhaust, no sticker on the cracked windshield. Kids hanging out the remaining windows. They are heading to Walmart with their EBT cards Farmers don't need CDL, Firemen are exempt, motor homes are exempt. As I read CDL requirements, Any trailer GVWR over 10,000 needs CDL. To me the language is unclear, but seems to exempt combined vehicle weight under 26000. I could tow an 18000 lb trailer with a truck weighing 7999 without CDL. I couldn't exceed the tow rating of the truck, and axle ratings apply, so a fifth wheel might easily weigh the truck rear axle beyond its capacity.
But remember it is not the weight of the truck it is the rating of the truck, so an f350 is now 13,000 which means 13000 lb trailer. To haul an 16000 lb trailer you would have to reduce down to an f250, makes alot of sense right? oh and you buy a trailer to get you under cdl and buy a new truck the gvw goes up a little each year. For a long time f350 gvw was 12000, now 13000 probably 2020 closer to 14k.
Here Fire fighters can drive the engine to a fire in an emergency but cannot return to the station without a cdl.
Well that is just ignorant. Would be as expecting a GI to have a CDL besides his Mil License.
So you're talking about driving in Michigan only? I would call Michigan DOT to get an answer from them. I have heard that a dual tandem (I have one) is a CDL required trailer every time if being used commercially. You said personal so that's a gray area. I use my Dual axle 25K trailer for personal use here without CDL and have not been stopped or checked. I would not cross or drive by a weigh station though without knowing the specific rules and how they apply to the situation. Good luck.
Yes, Only in Michigan and only for personal use. I have hunting property in northern MI, where i haul it to in the summer. and keep it down state in the winter. My understanding is even if the truck is rated to tow lets say 20K, you just can't over load rear GAWR. So in theory a 25K trailer can be loaded to 24K and you could tow it with a truck rated to tow 18K as long as its GAWR is not over.
I move my 580M a max of 50 miles between properties with a 32 tandem dual GN with 12k axles. 2006 Dodge 3500 5.9 6 speed dually. I am under farm exemption. Just a quick tragic story. Several years ago late in he day a self propelled work over rig left a location and was traveling less than 1 mile down the highway to the next location without an overweight permit from Txdot. Unfortunately a vehicle ran into the back of the rig and an occupant of the automobile was killed. Since the rig was on the road illegally the well service company bore the cost of a multi million dollar lawsuit without insurance coverage resulting in bankruptcy.
I understand. I'm trying to understand GVWR. If you look at the sticker on the truck it shows gvwr, but doesn't show CGVWR. My understanding(which may be wrong), as long as the trailer has the proper GVWR for the load your hauling, as long as you don't overload rear GAWR on the tow vehicle you are legal. This isn't something I will rush out and do. I really want to understand everything before I make a decision. Thank you Paul
It may be different in your state. A trailer is rated at GTWR. That weight is with all trailer wheels and the jack sitting on the scale. 25000 might be 20000 on the axles, 5000 on the truck. You may not exceed the trailer manufacturer's GTWR, The truck manufacturer's GVWR, GAWR (axle), or tow rating. Truck builders usually provide gross combined weight rating. Even if empty, towing a 25000 rated trailer with a truck weighing more than 1000 lbs requires CDL. I'm not aware of exemptions for personal use
The only way can get ANY exemption as to GVWR limits for CDL or exceeding Tow/towed vehicle GVWR is under AG use, has to be registered in MO for AG use, NOTHING Commercial as to name on machines, in no way can it be Just for Personal use unless is registered as AG. My Trucks and Trailers are licensed to my Farm so as to NOT be CDL limited regardless. Check on that with the MI DOT as well. You exceed 26K and the CDL rules apply unless registered AG is pretty much THE standard.
Willie good to know. I'll defiantly need to get a CDL, and maybe a larger truck(shucks). I defiantly need to figure out the number to MI dot
Based on my calls to VTDOT, the information you get isn't very reliable. Go to their website. hundreds of people have asked these questions. Vermont DMV has racks of publications covering given subjects. Likely MI has same.
A buddy of mine got a ticket with a Toyota Tundra with a single axle trailer with a lawn mower on it. Combined the gvwr was 10,500 so he needed a medical card. He lives across the river in vt and mows lawns in nh. No letters on his truck, they just recognised him from multiple trips across the boarder. DOT Officers here typically will not answer questions, they refer you to "The Book" Federal Motor Cariers handbook.
Now that's just ridiculous. If they want to get you, they can.
If in ANY business and driving for $$ albeit lawn service you had better be licensed Commercial.
So i am interested in this thread, as i would like to buy a gooseneck trailer. I own a D3 Cat, and E70B Cat and a 230 Timberjack. I think the 230 could reasonably be hauled on a gooseneck, the Cats probably pushing it but not sure, we are in the same weight class as the backhoe. I have a CDL so that is not an issue, but what is reasonable. Bought a 2011 Ram 3500 cab and chassis, see these hot shot guys all the time with tandem duelly goosenecks that are well over the GCVW for this truck all the time so, so not sure what gvw class i should be looking at for a trailer, duel wheels on trailer float better in soft ground and if there is a blowout higher safety factor, but are heavier and take away from carrying capacity.
Really need to be asking the State DOT where you are, if they note they will inspect as to Axle Weight Ratings and tires capacities as to being able to shut you down then have to look at Class 6 or heavier equipment. Again becomes a game of cat/mouse/wallet as to expense afforded/affordable and whether your insurer will cover you should you exceed GCWR IF into an accident situation. Electric brakes are somewhat OK, can be a maintenance expense if abused heavily, stopping distance at max payload sucks, lighter axles are not so resilient for duration of time, are MULTITUDES of issues that can confront.
Mine is not gooseneck. It has three 7000 LB axles. I'm likely carrying another 5000 on the pintle. Trailer is rated at 23000. They don't say what it weighs empty, I'd guess 5000. I haul my 16500 LB backhoe & other smaller loads. Because of a steep driveway I sometimes travel I load the crawler (14500 LBS) on the truck. I would NOT want to tow this with a smaller truck.