HI All, I need to do some work on my property (lot clearing / grading / cut in driveway etc) and rather than hiring somebody to do it (expensive!) , I decided to do as my friend did on his property and buy my own equipment to do it myself. In theory, buying will cost as much as having the work done BUT a side benefit of the DIY approach is that it is kinda fun and you also get to have a machine left over in case you need more work done in the future. My situaltion is this...I found a nice large machine ( A combination trencher (putting in drain lines off my gutters / installing drain pipes to drain water away from the house, back hoe (handy for general digging / removing stumps , vibratory plow for neat wire installing to my out buildings, and a 6 way blade to maintain the gravel driveway) located about 900 miles from my house (yes far away BUT it is a good price and will do what I need....The machine weighs about 13K lbs. I have a 1997 dodge dually (diesel, 5 sp, ext cab, 4.10 gears , 4x4, e) and just bought a Econoline 12T backhoe pro trailer (older 1995 model...needs some work but I got it at a very good price so I think it was a good deal)....Per the sticker on the trailer it weighs 5K empty). I have a friend who is a welder by trade and he will make me a commercial grade hitch to handle the weight....(FWIW - We will be removing the rear bumper and having the hitch custom done so the pintle / ball (if we convert it over to a ball coupler of the appropriate weight cap so we can run weight distributing), moved closer to the rear axle of the truck to minimize the overhang length and the extra stress it would make for the rear end (while not as good as a goose neck or 5th wheel, it would still be light years ahead of the stock hitch location.....I don't want to use a bed type hitch because I run a cap on my truck for tools / storage etc...). Anyways, my biggest concern is issues with "the man".....I actually went to our local DMV (division of motor vehicles) to get info on CDLs and DOT numbers because some of my friends say that is what would keep the man off my back in the even I get pulled over. On the flip side I also have friends say I don't need it because it is for personal use and therefore a COMMERCIAL drivers license is not needed. I understand the combo is heavy GVW rated (the truck sticker is about 11K GVW and the trailer is 24K GVW).....I only use the dually for me personally and the trailer I got a good deal on (plus if it is rated to do 24K , the 13K I need it to haul should not be a problem....heck the trailer alone could stop everything using its brakes alone I believe!). Anyways, If I get the machine it would be a long multiday trip so its not like just like running out a couple hundred miles (at night if need be to minimize exposure)...plus I'd like to actually do some sightseeing along the way to and from picking up the machine (might as well make it a semi vacation trip to boot!). So, is it fair to say that because I am doing it for myself (no commercial use), I should not have problems with "the man" in terms of CDL / DOT numbers.....(actually, I'll have to see how much weight my DMV says I can tow with my dually....in VA people sometimes tag / title things to make sure they have enough "paper capacity" even though this may be different than actual vehicle capacity. I hate it when things get so complicated for seemingly such a simple task....Oh side note : The truck is in an LLC name for liability reasons (my house is also in a LLC name for the same reason)...not real business use just to protect property and minimize exposure to potential losses). Thanks in advance for any and all help. Andrew PS - Since this this is personal use even tho heavy....I did not plan on a CDL / DOT number / stop at weigh stations type situation
How does having your house in a LLC benefit?
Check with your state(DMV) you can get 50 different answers on here from 50 different states, plus a few other from different countries. The best way to handle is find out the law! Owning your own equipment can actually be cheaper(by a lot)plus you'll have the advantage of doing other jobs/additions to your land. WITH THAT SAID; if you are not mechanically inclined or buy a lemon things can add up real fast, then you'll have to hire anyway. All you need is the equipment that fit's your weigh limits, personally I like the smaller machines they don't leave as big a track through the property.
this is what I found----It is extremely important to be aware that the combined GVWR of your truck and trailer determines the proper licensing. It is not what you happen to weigh when you are stopped at scale and it is not what your registered weight is. You risk being subjected to heavy fines if, in fact, the manufacturers combined GVWR for your equipment is over 26,000 pounds and you are not licensed properly It looks to me from what you said your gvwr is 35k so you would need a cdl. I think that the llc would cause the dot to say you need DOT numbers. The Federal penalty to a driver who violates the CDL requirements is a civil penalty of up to $2,500 or, in aggravated cases, criminal penalties of up to $5,000 in fines and/or up to 90 days in prison. An employer is also subject to a penalty of up to $10,000, if he or she knowingly uses a driver to operate a CMV without a valid CDL The DOT does not cut drivers much slack so beware!!
Home in an LLC is good and bad depending on the situation .... good, in that if you are sued personally, they can't take you house if you lose...(or if you rent a part of you home out, the tenant has to sue the LLC and not you personally so if you lose that then your personal credit isn't hurt or they can't go after your other assets.) Bad , in that if somebody sues your property (like a city saying you are in violation of a zoning issue....(they sue the property owner)) and you want to fight it, you MUST use lawyer (expensive)......I know this one after everything was said and done because this situation happened to me. Andrew
Law will vary from state to state, in NY it doesn't matter if you are for profit or not, if you drive out of class the requirements and penalty are the same. And in NY, DOT will be looking at you the same way they would any commercial operator, they will expect you to know the law.
To the OP,I would strongly advise NOT to do this move,besides almost everything you said will be illegal,it is also down right dangerous.To be specific,that way too heavy 12 ton trailer will be wagging the dog[your truck] big time,on a sharp turn the momentum encountered can easily get you out of control very quickly,there will be no way to correct in time. Actually,everything gets surpassed now by FMCSA rules,all the states are supposed to fall in line.Of course that will not happen perfectly anytime soon,we all know that. DOT compliance has NOTHING to do with CDL requirements,2 different animals.
I just talked with the state police a little while ago....they gave me another phone number to call in the AM but the officer I spoke with said he didn't see any problem with what I was proposing (i.e. picking up machinery for personal use without a CDL for my property) but he did mention that he is not the last word in that and the the state police motor carrier division would be the ones to talk to....I will do that in the AM... I think it could be an interesting / fun trip to say the (Nice unexpected trip to pick up a new "toy" buy wow....I'd rather not have all this be such a big deal tho. with all the potential regulations and possibility of being stopped etc...). Thanks and feel free to post more.....I'll keep you updated as I learn more. Andrew
Everybody is missing an important point: You can't go 900 miles from Charlottesville without crossing a state line. This puts you under FMCSA without question. Having your truck registered to an LLC eliminates claiming this trip is for recreational purposes. For the driver, this trip requires a class A CDL, a logbook, and a DOT physical. For the truck, a DOT number, apportioned tags for truck and trailer or a trip permit from each state, IFTA registration or temporary from each state. In short, you are looking at a couple thousand dollars just in regulatory compliance. If you blow by a scale in most states, they keep somebody there ready to come get you; then you get an extra penalty. Even if you stop voluntarily, you are looking at fines in 4-5 figures and your truck WILL sit until a legal driver gets there. BTW, if you are going south, NC loves to stop out of state p'ups w/ trailers, and are real tight on even the in state ones. I had to take my drivers to NC to retrieve 5 F350s pulling welders that belonged to my cousin. SC doesn't appear to care what you do w/ a p'up. www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations
I am hoping to find out the legality of the move by speaking directly with our state police and motor carrier type people.....I am hoping that it will be OK for a private person to do and I would drive slowly just in case to be safe (as an example, in driving this new to me trailer home (about a 200 mile trip on mostly flat terrain although the last 30 miles was on twisty 2 lane road...but that was near me and I knew the roads) I drove it at a max speed of 55 MPH despite the speed limit being 70 in most places (I drove at 52 being as my "norm" and if the road was bumpy I did slow to about 47 MPH....the bumpy roads were mostly in the city areas where the limit was 55 mph anyways). I am thinking loaded I may just go 50 MPH or less all the way home and maybe even in 4th gear....(for those that know me from other posts in other forums my 5th gear nut backed off in the trans and I did not fix it for a few months....hence I was "stuck" using 4th gear and limited my speed to 50 MPH just to keep engine rpms reasonable....I did fix the problem when I had time and even went with the updated nut, new 5th gear and special retainer from action trans (?) to keep the fifth gear nut from coming off again but no sense in stressing the tranny too much maybe.....I'll just play it by ear since most of the highway to FL from VA is pretty much flat and open. I think in going slow (relatively speaking) everything should be fine....in thinking about it, when I tow the RV I ususally go slow too because I don't want to bounce stuff around etc.. While I am not a big fan of lots of rules and regulations,they are a necessary thing to a degree for safety etc... but it would be good to see more uniform laws to facilitate interstate travel...It's kinda crazy to have to deal with laws and regs willie nilley from one area to the next so hopefully a good fair set of reasonable laws would be beneficial in this case ....anyways that's just my take on interstate travel from what others may consider commercial use but is in actually a for private use trip (this is all a new situation for me so I am looking at all this from the outside looking in and not looking to get in trouble with "the man"). On the other hand FWIW - in case it helps anybody else trying (or wanting) to to tow heavy...the 12 ton Econoline trailer (backhoe pro w/ multimax suspension only weighs 5000 lbs empty (per the plate on the trailer) and it really did tow OK considering its huge weight carrying capacity. Admittedly, on bumpy road surfaces it seemed to shake the truck a bit (I am guessing that is a result of the pintle hitch not being held in place firmly like a ball coupler would firmly hold the coupler on the trailer to the truck BUT then again ,in all fairness, my empty landscape type trailer firmly coupled using a ball type coupler also shakes my truck a bit too on bumpy roads.....the only fair comparison would be to drive the same road section at the same speed to get a real feel for things....a side by side comparison of sorts. Anyways, that what has happened and where I am now....I'll be tinkering / fixing on the trailer over the nest week or so in the hopes of getting it ready to help me get my new "toy" (I still have to dicker with my truck too (as in heavier hitch set up / pintle plate etc)....I will contact the powers that be and see what they say about my proposed trip. Keep the questions , comments and concerns coming....they are most helpful esp since not knowing things can be bad too. Thanks! Andrew
X2,except it really doesn't matter for the licensing crossing state lines as FMCSA rules demand that ANY driver transporting a combined weight of 26,001 lbs. or greater,except if the vehicle being driven falls under the description of a RV,has a CDL.In this case a class A is required without question.You can spin the best storyline imaginable how it's for personal use,does not matter.Imagine a 18 year old wet behind the ears kid trying to transport a D8 just ''because.''The law was implemented to make John Q. Public safe from drivers who think they can operate rigs with heavy loads without any training or testing.Here's something in simple terms so everyone can follow,sometimes deciphering rules from the FMCSA site can be confusing to say the least: Do you drive a combination vehicle - Driving Rules Network drivingrules.net/cdl/needaCDL.htmO YOU NEED A COMMERCIAL DRIVER'S LICENSE? You need a CDL if you operate any of the following vehicles. . • All single vehicles with a manufacturer's weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more . • All trailers with a manufacturer's weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more, if the gross weight rating of the combined vehicle(s) is 26,001 pounds or more . • All vehicles designed to transport 16 or more persons (including the driver). (Private, church, buses.) • All vehicles that carry placarded amounts of hazardous materials (see following section on exemptions). Occasional drivers are also required to apply for a CDL and all appropriate endorsements. For example: Mechanics or truck sales people who test drive on a public roadway These vehicles are divided into three classes, A, B, and C. To determine what class of CDL you need, follow the links to the questions. A higher class CDL allows you to drive vehicles in any of the lower classes provided you have the correct endorsements. There are three types of Commercial Driver's Licenses, Class "A", Class "B", and Class "C". To see if you need a Commercial Driver's License, and what class, answer the questions and follow the links. Do you drive a Combination Vehicle?
That state cop you talked to had to come from the same gene pool as Barney Fife!
Yes Tuney, you are absolutely correct. The regs I posted clearly say a CDL is required for intrastate and interstate, while the other regs only apply when you cross state lines. The point I was making was all the stuff people say about what this state or that state requires has nothing to do with this trip, because it falls under federal rules. Andy, be very careful with talking to your states people. I can tell you as someone who was in the trucking business for 18 years, and still am, just a 6 trucks and me and a part-time driver now; some of the people in government don't know what they are talking about. :beatsme If they say you can make this trip, see it in writing. When your truck is impounded in another state, saying "a guy at Va DOT said it was OK" ain't gonna help. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just cautioning that crossing state lines in a truck is way the hell more complicated than it's worth for one trip.
oops I just saw a new post come in while typing my reply above....I'll check that out too.... The forum requires a wait between posts so I did and read the latest post... I was on the FMCSA site earlier and even spoke to a person there....they said I needed a DOT number and that it was free....I asked why if I am private for private use and all the lady could come up with is because if the GVW is over 10K you need one.....(I really don't want to mark up my personal truck with lettering etc and even asked her of I did get the number can I just keep it on a card in my wallet....she referred me to the Richmond office and I called them and left them a message) I took that as a little wrong because how many duallies to you see with a DOT number?....none of my RV friends have one and they travel all over in huge setups (newer 450 / 550 trucks pulling homes / mansions on wheels)....Of course I realize that just because a few people don't have it doesn' make it right.... The LLC is for liability reasons....If my helper drives my truck for work or pleasure ( I do let them use it on occasion if our "real" work trucks are broken/unusable or if they need it for something to help them ) I don't want to be sued in the event of an accident....the LLC shields me from potential lawsuits and protects my other property by isolating my vehicles from me personally (actually all my vehicles are in an LLC name and I don't have any vehicles in my name....Furthermore, I have a separate LLC to put a lien on the vehicle(s) held by the other LLC....that way if the LLC holding the trucks get sued and property has to be liquidated, then the first lienholder (my other LLC) gets the proceeds first (nothing leftover valuewise since the liens are always high to start with).....complicated I know but it is what the lawyer did for me. Personally, I am of the belief that all the rules and regs apply to commercial people which I would not be in this case....just like an RVer towing his huge 5th wheeler or boat I would simply be pulling my new "toy" (the one I want to get from FL and make a trip of it ...sight seeing etc along the way to / from) As an aside I am a licensed FFL dealer so yes I have regs that bind me that would not apply to average people (like If I sell a gun to a person as an FFL I have to do background checks , paperwork etc...but if I was harry homeowner I could simply sell a gun for cash no questions asked no paperwork). The reason for the above FFL example is to say people in a certain situations may in fact be regulated (as in my FFL situation...selling for profit) and by comparison a for hire driver transporting other peoples stuff for compensation would I can see be regulated BUT in my driving situation I would be a private person driving for myself to pick up a piece of equipment for my personal use on my own property. I suppose on the flip side they (the powers that be) could say it could be for profit or for commercial use but to that I would say basically a person is (or should be) innocent until proven guilty or just because a person owns a gun doesn't automatically make the a bank robber etc... I really started this process hoping this would be a simple and enjoyable trip to get my new toy but this simple task has seemingly gotten complicated by potential CDL / DOT issues....BUT it is best to know these things before heading out so I truly appreciate any and all input on this. Thanks again! Andrew
just my 2c - but if personal use gives you an exclusion then that means I could drive a tri-axle with tons of gravel to my own house? or drive a tractor & 53' trailer across the US? I think cdl definitely comes into play with weight. I was parked at a store lot and the police stopped by to look at my flatbed that had several skidsteer accessories on it (gn on dodge 2500). He didn't ask to weigh it but he looked at my tag (farm) and asked me about it. Never did figure out whether he was just interested or thought I was over weight.
How do these folks buy these greyhound bus motorhomes that can carry many people, hit the road, cross state lines and not have to have a CDL? Just playing devils advocate.
There's so much wrong in this whole equation I'm not sure where to even start. The Barney Fife comment was priceless. If I were you I'd take a cell phone along with plenty of cash, the phone to call a real attorney, the cash to post bail. Unhook the trailer, take the pickup out to look at the machine, if you buy it, hire someone to haul it home for you, save yourself thousands in fines, sorry to be so blunt. As for comparing this trip with a diesel pickup, trailer and machine, to an RV..................................tell that one to any dot officer out of state, see if they agree.........make sure to take far more cash than you originally thought.
true Why and why? again why? if you're a commercial driver I doubt this, but could be wrong, personal use vehicle. As long as he does not exceed the weight limits of the law or truck then where is this illegal? How fast were you driving, I went through the state many times with my tri axle trailer with all different types of equipment(car, tractor, motorcycle, UTV, and just stuff on it and never got so much as a glance. From what I've come up with the OP is close on weight limits(but still may be legal), figure close to 24k +or-. I will go back to the poster that said something about a motorhome, now lets say that motorhome is pulling a trailer with a full size truck on it, does he/she need a CDL.....NO. I'm not saying he is correct(legal) but I also will not say he is going to be running illegal either. Maybe he could find a cat scale close to the load area and get a total combined weight? Again though, the best answer he'll get is to call those that will regulate his route of travel. Hear say and armchair ref's can give opinions but unless they know the EXACT laws of is route they are not really helping. Sorry to be blunt but if it were me I'd want the legal answer
RV drivers get some slack from law enforcement, even if they're driving a semi with air brakes. Same with horse "farmers" with farm plates. To some extent small operators (97 dodge and old equipment) get a pass, your fines might only be in the 3 digits instead of 5 (that's my experience). NO WAY any of this is legal if you get an ambitious inspector. Or safe. Sure you're safe enough driving it slow, but try telling that to the officer. 18k trailer hooked to a dodge bumper hitch??? I would have bet you'd get away with it before reading Mitch's more relevant experience...
A limited liability company (LLC) is the United States-specific form of a private limited company. It is a business structure that combines the pass-through taxation of a partnership or sole proprietorship with the limited liability of a corporation. This is why you need a DOT number If your truck and trailer manufacturers combination gross weight rating is over 26000 you need a CDL. you might get there and back without any problems, but if you go threw a state like IA were the DOT love to pull over out of state pickups with trailers then as Randy88 says take a cell phone along with plenty of cash. IA loves to give tickets to pickups with trailers for not having DOT numbers
Update : I spoke with an attorney here in Va and apparently code section 46.2 - 341.4 exempts the weight limit for personal use....of course she said you could still be pulled over and may have to discuss the situation with the officer but technically for personal use the weight limit is exempted. (2-27-15 ) She is giving me referrals to lawyers in the the other states (NC, SC, GA and FL) that I would have to travel through.....hopefully they also have exemptions for personal use as well. Update : a man from the FCMSA just called me and is supposed to call me back in a bit regarding the personal use issue VS the greater than 26K weight rating of my towing setup.....he acknowledged the recreational aspect being exempted but seemed to be a little concerned about the commerce aspect (meaning transportation of something).....Appears I don't need authority since I am or will be purchasing the machine when I get there (i.e. owner of item being transported VS transporting something for somebody else). (2-21-15)....of course given what my attorney said with the va code above earlier I wonder why he is still researching?)...anyways, we'll see... Sitting on pins and needles... Andrew
Update :2-27-15 about 12:55 PM .....Mr Anderson from the FMCSA called me back...no need for CDL, No need for Authority, and no need for DOT number for personal use when I transport this machine for personal use....appears all the regs apply for business use / business transportion etc... )he went through regulation 383.5 under the commerce section of rules and regulations I asked him if the different states had to be contacted regarding their rules on the matter and he said no he is federal and that supercedes state since I would not be classified as commercial then commercial state regulations would not apply to me in my case.....I am saving his name and number just in case!....only thing better would have been for me to tape the conversation but seems like everything is a go.... Hopefully my situation helps others in my same situation....and to a degree it restores my faith in the "system" Thanks for all you input and help in this matter. Andrew
well that's good to no next time I get pull over by the DOT I will just explain to him how I am exempt from weight and license and CDL regulations because this is a personal use truck.
:roll Yeah, then call your lawyer and have them figure it out together, that will definitely keep them from throwing the book at you
Apparently Mr. Anderson must be directly related to Mr. Barney Fife as he has the regs completely wrong also. His answer to you regarding personal vs. commercial should have come Immediately from his lips,not any of this ''I'll get back to you'' stuff.This should be basic info the FMCSA can quote at any time. Nevertheless,383.5 is the definitions part of their authority.NOWHERE does it state ANYTHING regarding exemptions from needing a proper CDL if hauling for personal use.If your transporting combined weight of 26,001 lbs. or greater,that right there is called commerce,DOES NOT MATTER one iota what that weight is,the truck,tractor,trailer,the load of marijuana,oats,dead hookers,a backhoe---WEIGHT IS WEIGHT.Its all right here,happy reading,best to do IMHO while sitting down on the throne so be careful in there when you plug in your computer,here you go:Sorry,don't know how to hilight so go to line 13,starts with ''COMMERCE.'' Part 383 COMMERCIAL DRIVER'S LICENSE STANDARDS; REQUIREMENTS AND PENALTIES printer friendly version Section Guidance § 383.5: Definitions. As used in this part: Administrator means the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administrator, the chief executive of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, an agency within the Department of Transportation. Alcohol or alcoholic beverage means: (a) Beer as defined in 26 U.S.C. 5052(a), of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954, (b) wine of not less than one-half of one per centum of alcohol by volume, or (c) distilled spirits as defined in section 5002(a)(8), of such Code. Alcohol concentration (AC) means the concentration of alcohol in a person's blood or breath. When expressed as a percentage it means grams of alcohol per 100 milliliters of blood or grams of alcohol per 210 liters of breath. Alien means any person not a citizen or national of the United States. CDL downgrade means either: (1) A State allows the driver to change his or her self-certification to interstate, but operating exclusively in transportation or operation excepted from part 391, as provided in § 390.3(f), § 391.2, § 391.68 or § 398.3 of this chapter; (2) A State allows the driver to change his or her self-certification to intrastate only, if the driver qualifies under that State's physical qualification requirements for intrastate only; (3) A State allows the driver to change his or her certification to intrastate, but operating exclusively in transportation or operations excepted from all or part of the State driver qualification requirements, or (4) A State removes the CDL privilege from the driver license. CDL driver means a person holding a CDL or a person required to hold a CDL. CDLIS driver record means the electronic record of the individual CDL driver's status and history stored by the State-of-Record as part of the Commercial Driver's License Information System (CDLIS) established under 49 U.S.C. 31309. Commerce means (a) any trade, traffic or transportation within the jurisdiction of the United States between a place in a State and a place outside of such State, including a place outside of the United States and (b) trade, traffic, and transportation in the United States which affects any trade, traffic, and transportation described in paragraph (a) of this definition. Commercial driver's license (CDL) means a license issued to an individual by a State or other jurisdiction of domicile, in accordance with the standards contained in this part, which authorizes the individual to operate a class of a commercial motor vehicle. Commercial driver's license information system (CDLIS) means the CDLIS established by FMCSA pursuant to section 12007 of the Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1986. Commercial learner's permit (CLP) means a permit issued to an individual by a State or other jurisdiction of domicile, in accordance with the standards contained in this part, which, when carried with a valid driver's license issued by the same State or jurisdiction, authorizes the individual to operate a class of a commercial motor vehicle when accompanied by a holder of a valid CDL for purposes of behind-the-wheel training. When issued to a CDL holder, a CLP serves as authorization for accompanied behind-the-wheel training in a CMV for which the holder's current CDL is not valid. Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle— (1) Has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or (2) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater; or (3) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or (4) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section. Controlled substance has the meaning such term has under 21 U.S.C. 802(6) and includes all substances listed on schedules I through V of 21 CFR 1308 (§§ 1308.11 through 1308.15), as they may be amended by the United States Department of Justice. Conviction means an unvacated adjudication of guilt, or a determination that a person has violated or failed to comply with the law in a court of original jurisdiction or by an authorized administrative tribunal, an unvacated forfeiture of bail or collateral deposited to secure the person's appearance in court, a plea of guilty or nolo contendere accepted by the court, the payment of a fine or court cost, or violation of a condition of release without bail, regardless of whether or not the penalty is rebated, suspended, or probated. Disqualification means any of the following three actions: (1) The suspension, revocation, or cancellation of a CLP or CDL by the State or jurisdiction of issuance. (2) Any withdrawal of a person's privileges to drive a CMV by a State or other jurisdiction as the result of a violation of State or local law relating to motor vehicle traffic control (other than parking, vehicle weight or vehicle defect violations). (3) A determination by the FMCSA that a person is not qualified to operate a commercial motor vehicle under part 391 of this subchapter. Driver applicant means an individual who applies to a State or other jurisdiction to obtain, transfer, upgrade, or renew a CDL or to obtain or renew a CLP. Driver's license means a license issued by a State or other jurisdiction, to an individual which authorizes the individual to operate a motor vehicle on the highways. Driving a commercial motor vehicle while under the influence of alcohol means committing any one or more of the following acts in a CMV— (a) Driving a CMV while the person's alcohol concentration is 0.04 or more; (b) Driving under the influence of alcohol, as prescribed by State la
Being having a mistress is as ''personal'' as one can get,maybe all of us with CDL's and DOT compliancy can tell that gestapo DOT officer ''I have 20,000 pounds of red roses and they're for my mistress sir.''A Mr.Anderson over there at FMCSA headquarters says ''it's not business,it's personal.'' For sure,he'd have the bestest ''you know what this moronic trucker tried BSing me with today'' story!!!!!!
This may come as a shock to you or maybe it won't, at just about any given time ANY driver can be found guilty of something. I was even harassed once for my truck being to dirty
Here are the key words "over 26,000" according to the OP he will be under. What would concern me is the towing capacity of the truck and condition of truck and trailer. If his truck can legally pull 20K then so be it.
now that my truck is for personal use no more overweight permits this is great wish some body had told me this year ago.
Actually,the correct terminology on the computer generated ''warning'' notice you get is ''Untidy housekeeping''.Yup,happened to me also.ANY ''hard'' goods,tire beater,hammer,tools have to be on the right side of the tunnel on the floor.
he said the truck sticker is about 11K GVW and the trailer is 24K GVW the key word is gross vehicle weight rating
Got a little recent experience in this area. I purchased for private use a Cat 933 a few months ago and as luck would have it on the way home, I was on the side of the interstate checking what I thought was a loose chain and a DMV inspector pulled in behind me. I have a F350 with gooseneck 12 ton trailer and no CDL as I was told by local DMV several years ago it was not needed for private use. He was nice and asked me if I needed help but did snoop around a little and asked several questions about what I was doing. I explained I just bought the loader and was on my way home. He asked what I did for a living and if I used my truck to make any income or if I had a CDL both of which I said no. I asked him if there were any problems, he said no but that I should watch to not put the load to far forward and that needed to chain the bucket down in addition to the loader (hmm, never thought that was needed since it is permanently attached). He did ask several questions about my permanent semi-trailer tags on my trailer but he seemed fine after talking. He wished me a good day but did follow me several miles before turning around. It should have been obvious that I was over 26001 pounds and by many others on the this post I should have a CDL but according to the inspector that "helped" me as long as you are private not needed. Now if I was driving a tri-axle dump claiming it was private, he may have not been so nice. BTW -I also own a backhoe, skidsteer and several tractors all just for fun but are used on several properties I own and I move them all the time on the interstate passing many troopers and never been stopped.
Hence the "playing devils advocate" statement. Personally I think it's ridiculous that personal use is exempted on RV's and any other vehicle combinations on the roads that would otherwise require a CDL if used for business. It should either be all regulated the same or no regulation at all.:cool2
I have no idea what a DMV inspector is as I think you mean DOT but regardless,that day you dodged a bullet.Troopers are NOT in charge of truck regulating--again, that's DOT.
You're absolutely correct CM1995.I always say if I ever hit the lottery,I'm buying me the largest Prevost chassis,will have most of the RV niceties removed,leave all the vents and awnings on the outside.There will be a huge hydraulic ramp to load any and all of my ''toys'' so when I go by the DOT checkpoint,I'm going to crank on my train horn and wave to them.Even if they come after me for whatever,I'll be in the green now,so what?
tuney443, I'm thinking you add up the gvw's on the truck and trailer only, the total weight of everything, including the load must not exceed 11,000 plus 24,000 or a total if my math is right, 35,000 lbs including truck, trailer and load, not 48,000 lbs, but I agree totally on the cdl thing. Cattoy, was the officer in your state, or state's away when he pulled you over? I understand some states operate differently than others, answers are given all the time by those behind desks, once I was told I didn't need a trip permit to travel four states away to pick up a machine, first scale pulled me over, chatted and I had to wait for a trip permit to show up before the truck was allowed to move, turns out nobody cared what I was told, the officer that told me what I was going to do was in charge, when I called to complain to the moron that told me some line of bull, well....................sorry about that, but what the dot officer told I needed onsite, overruled moron number one on the phone, same goes for every state I went through on the way out and back. Ask Barney fife if he's going to pay for any and all fines on your behalf, put that in writing and fax a copy to you signed by another moron in the office, might even want a notary sign it as well, then go get a class A cdl and apply for all the right permits, just in case their wrong, but do as you wish, after all its not my money or license. The last thing to remember at all times, all attorneys are right, but in court 50 percent of them lose each time they go to court, not a very good track record in my book if you look at overall averages, the thing you need to ask yours is, what percent of his cases he wins, compared to loses. Just an observation over the years.
Yes Randy88,you are correct,don't know why I added in more weight,probably a brain fart,sorry,but still,like you said,he still needs a CDL.
Found this: Operators of vehicles having a manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 or more or a combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 pounds or more if the vehicle(s) being towed has a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds are required to hold a valid CDL permit. The following situations exempt operators of certain vehicles from the CDL requirements. 1. Operation of a vehicle for personal use only, such as a recreational vehicle or truck to move your personal belongings. 2. Operation of a fire truck or other emergency vehicle. 3. Operation of a farm vehicle that meets all of the following conditions: Controlled and operated by a farmer. Used to transport agricultural products, farm machinery or farm supplies to and from a farm. Strictly for farm use and not used in the operation of a common or contract motor carrier. Used within 150 miles of the vehicle owner’s farm. Got it here http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/pdf/dmv109.pdf Section 3 Here in Ontario they make no exceptions for personal use when towing over 4600kg (10141lbs)
Good Luck, and I hope you don't get caught while in another state. Mitch
If your ever anywhere near the Midwest, this is what you'll need for your trip, just to name a few. As has been stated, if its a LLC, nothing is personal, same goes for pulling a trailer over 10,001 gvw, the pickup alone maybe if its in your personal name, both licensed and insured, once the trailer is hooked up, sorry about the personal exemption that's gone or still there but require a cdl anyhow. Your crossing state lines, you need a trip permit, be in IFTA with fuel tax stickers on the door, a valid class A cdl in your wallet, an up to date medical card in there as well, or else your cdl is invalid. A registered dot number on both sides of your truck, permanently stuck on, visible to any officer or from all scale houses. To go through all scales that are open, even empty, most require you be 6,000 lbs, know your empty weight, and just to be sure pass through the first one anyhow, they're looking for dot numbers on your side anyhow. In order to even get a trip permit, you have to have up to date insurance, with enough liability for the state's your traveling to give you a permit, they also check your driving record, and the license on your pickup, you do have it licensed for 35,000 lbs don't you?? Did you contact your insurance company, did they give you permission to take this trip, which I'd doubt, but if you didn't, they'll find out when you apply for a trip permit, if you don't have insurance or enough insurance, and get caught in a state that doesn't care what you were told, like most don't, add those to the list of fines as well, pleading ignorance isn't an excuse, telling anyone someone told you over the phone you could without problems, isn't an excuse either. You'll have to abide by any and all laws in the state's your traveling through, first is everything listed above, plus axle weights, tire weight ratings, a fire extinguisher, triangles, nothing on the dash of your pickup, nothing near you in the cab, everything behind the seat or as has been stated, tidy and in its place. Tire depths must be in compliance, same for brake conditions, if its electric brakes on the trailer, it must meet each states criteria for a backup breakaway, does it have a battery with a date stamped on it, that's still within compliance?, does it work? Do you have dot approved chains and binders, are the chains stamped with a weight rating and still visible, do you know how to use them in accordance with the dot rules in each state? Are there any oil or heaven forbid, fuel leaks on your pickup or what your hauling? Make sure you have proof of purchase that meets each states criteria of documentation, not just a hand written note from john doe scribbled on the back of McDonalds wrapper. Your pickup, trailer need inspection reports done on them, they need to be current, have the forms in your pickup, same with all your paperwork, in most states that or any paperwork can only be copied once, you can't fax them multiple times or they get distorted. You'll need a log book, current and accurate, you'd better not be speeding or try to doctor the log book in any way, most are smart enough to run a calculator, especially with as many officers and how long they're going to working on you when you get caught. You'd better not be involved in an accident in any way, heaven forbid if your found at fault, if its involving an car, your pretty much at fault, that's a given, the courts will hash out your personal status your claiming, then they have you, your truck, trailer and load and nothing but time to hash over how many things to fine you for, and pay before your let go, most states don't take a check. If the accident is with someone within their state, no matter who, they'll even check the color of your underwear to make sure they have enough documentation for the upcoming lawsuit and their states citizens to win big time, while you claim your exempt from all the laws due to personal use, that LLC status might not be enough to prevent your house from being involved, since YOUR the operator, but the courts can decide that one too, many have tried that defense only to lose in court, remember that one about every lawyer is right, until they get to court then they have a 50/50 chance of being right. Are there any rust holes in the frame of the truck or trailer, is everything fixed and gone over with a fine tooth comb, don't worry someone somewhere will do it for you maybe not on your behalf, but will do it just the same. Has anyone altered the hitch on the trailer and was it approved, did you even ask or run it by your local dot office to have someone look at it, or call to have someone come out, document the whole ordeal, is the truck hitch approved, did you do the same thing with the pickup's hitch? By chance what's the pickups manufacturers pulling gvw on the truck, is it at least 24,000lbs or more, do you have that information in your paperwork in the cab? You have to abide by log book hours, most will ask for slips for fuel or hotels you've stayed in, depending on the officer, might want to keep them organized just in case. No cracks, chips or knicks in the glass on the truck anywhere, as has been stated, keep it clean, mainly to view your dot numbers on the side, if not there, someone will probably stop you to ask why not. All the lights working at all times, do the electric brakes lock up when the breakaway coupler is pulled, and stay locked when you drive ahead and pull evenly as they are locked? It depends on the state, but most don't consider anything that digs dirt to be personal, most will fine you and you get to argue it in court later on, my state won't even entertain the idea of dirt equipment being personal, but we do have to only register the empty weight of the truck and trailer, not gvw as long as we don't cross state lines, but they upped our permits so its a wash in the end anyhow and if you cross state lines, none of it apply. I'm sure I'm missing a couple hundred things, but its a start, also if an officer in another state doesn't buy the personal exemption thing, this list applies before you move anything, are you prepared to get it all in compliance along the side of the road, I think on some of them, you have 15 minutes to get it up to date, but maybe that's just to provide proof of insurance and update the log book, while the officer does the walk around of your truck and trailer. I've been told by enough barney fife's over the years what I was legal to do, only to argue and royally tick off an officer and lose in the end anyhow, now I ask my insurance company if I can do what whatever it is I'm thinking, call each state and ask, contact my own dot office within state, figure 90 percent are lying or don't know, hope for the best and plan for the worst and use the worst case scenario imaginable, and when I get pulled over, toss everything out and sit and wait it out, not argue with an officer, get my ticket and hope to not be red tagged and call my attorney afterwards to have him do his homework to see if I can argue it in court, or just shut up and pay it, if its not a moving violation, I just pay it, I've never yet won one in court, doubt I ever will, if its a moving violation, I also get to pay an attorney who at best has a 50 percent chance of winning, if with just a judge, maybe its lowered to under 10 percent chance of winning but worth trying all the same if its in question, but then again I lost faith in the system many thousands of dollars ago, all paid in fines. 90 percent of the time you'll luck out and not have issues, but if you do have issues, you have been warned by many here already, just be prepared, my statement of hiring it hauled still stands, same for driving the pickup only out to look at the machine, but then I'm not lucky, I've never won the lotto, and have paid my share of fines after being told by many I was legal and up to date, only once in all the years of driving have I ever been pulled over and not fined, he just couldn't find anything wrong, but before I made it home, another older officer got me just the same for a block sticking out of my lowboy sump, over 50 percent of the way, and not chained down, that of course was a judgment call on the officers behalf, imagine that, he determined 51 percent of the block stuck out rather than only 50 percent, and you want to argue personal exemption from all rules??
If I'm not mistaking then he would be illegal just using his truck to pull the trailer empty(35K lbs)? How many have loaded 1500lbs(or more) on a half ton truck? What if he got a trailer rated at 13K and the truck were rated at 11K then he would be legal, same load same truck different trailer rating? From what little research I did, it seems he is legal because he is under actual weight and it's personal usage. Still curious as to what the tow capacity of the truck is? There should be a set rule for all driving in the US, this individual state crap might have been good before interstate travel (and interstate roads were built) but it's just bureaucratic horse dug revenue now. I also agree with stiffer regulations on RVs, I've seen countless idiots driving these down the highway, that in all honesty shouldn't even be allowed a pedal bike lic.
Just thought of something for the OP, what about renting a uhaul trk and trailer combo?
Yeah .... Myself , I would look around closer to home . Take some time , go look & operate the machine then go back home & think it over . If you like the machine & decide on purchase then hook up the checkbook & bring the truck and trailer I did spot this case combo unit in Rich Creek VA . http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=10517913
Since many of you all shared valid reason to the trucking needs/rules for what the OP asked, I'll share my own thoughts on the financial side. Unless this is something you are doing for fun, the numbers won't pan out. You are going to "dead head" 900 miles one way, illegally load and secure a trencher then drive 900 miles north? Any truck broker will/can add this to a semi as a partial load... My D5g was moved WI to south AL on the back of a single drop with a Oshkosh 6x6 all within weight. New holland ag tractor was shipped on top of steel beams. (Straddled the load) Tri axle bark blower was moved WA to WI on a double drop extendable trailer as the driver was in a hurry to get back east for a trip and did this for cheap. If time isn't the issue, trucking gets cheaper. The only things I move ourselves have been "drive away" trucks since we insure, apportion plate and find a cheap flight. All others I hire out!
You got it. GCVW is not effected by the load. Well unless your load puts you over your GCVW Doesn't all this stuff make your brain hurt :Banghead
One thing to beware of is make sure your insurance policy is good for the gross load you will have. An log hauler here last winter got a over weight ticket and on top of it he got hit for almost 1,000 bucks more for not having enough insurance. He was insured for a legal load only so they said he had invalid insurance.
The way he is now,he definitely needs a CDL and DOT tags,no question.As for your 1500 lb. question,I always say it's only illegal till you get caught,enough said,we're all adults here,you play,you might pay.Not sure of your question on the trailer of 13K as you don't state if that's the payload or the GVWR.Regardless though,his truck alone earns him DOT tags.GVCWR[gross vehicle carrying weight rating],believe it or not is something that DOT[at least by me] really don't look at,why.have no idea.Rest assured though,if there's an accident,whole different story.There is a bible on commercial driving regs---its all in the FMCSA,simply do a google search,it's all federal now,the states have to adhere to those regs.
HI All, I've been thinking about my situation and why my situation may be so confusing and potentially controversial or hard to understand. Admittedly, despite speaking with some of the powers that be (whether it be lawyers or govt officials) .....I still feel a little uncomfortable because potentially the person that pulls me over may not have the same opinion / interpretation of the laws / regulations that the people I spoken with have (heck , even here , there is still quite a bit of turmoil concerning my situation despite some of my preliminary findings.....This is unfortunate because there may be many more people in a situation similar to mine that could benefit from the findings we put forth here and I think it would be nice to have a definitive answer for them (and even me for that matter although I feel fairly confident that I should be OK in doing my trip even if stopped) but I am not 100% sure that is possible. With that, here is another way of looking at the situation that may make it easier (?) to understand... I think it would probably be fair to say that most of the people here on this forum are in some way involved making money from the use of and / or the transportation of equipment ....This, I think, is the biggest reason many people people come to the table (this discussion) immediately thinking CDL / DOT numbers etc ....because most here think in terms of something they are already familiar with or already are involved with (having a CDL because of necessity due to a commercial venture / compensated business). On the other hand, I come from a non CDL background and hence probably never even gave it a second thought about the need for a CDL because I am doing this for personal / non business / non compensated reasons...so really, left on my own I would not have even probably though of CDL / DOT as being even remotely needed (personal use VS commercial use)....On the flip side, I do appreciate the fact that the CDL etc... issue was brought up because it at least allowed me to think about how the other side lives and the loads of work it must be to be involved with interstate trucking for hire etc just to be compliant with the rules of so many different areas...While I realize, the rules are probably there to help ensure safety, perhaps the rules should be simpler so as not to have people constantly worrying about regulations and getting fined / pulled and actually concentrate more on (radical thought)....driving safely! My summarized take on all this is: A person can be pulled over for almost any reason....If a person is doing something on personal non compensated basis, then pretty much he /she can do so without the need for a CDL / DOT number etc...even though the technical numbers (weights etc) may say otherwise. On the flip side, if a person is in business and being compensated in some way then the CDL / DOT rules apply in full force... Is this a fair summary and thought process?....Just hoping to get this into my head and possibly help others in a similar situation... Andrew
How many different ways will you have to be told before you understand???
How about this, the constitution has this thing called the (interstate) commerce clause, and you can choose whether you BELIEVE it applies to you or not.
Yair . . . Andyinchville As an interested observer from another country I find your summation (if correct) absolutely unacceptable. An unlicensed inexperienced driver like yourself pulling loads considered to be marginal by folks who do it for a living is a travesty of reasonable thinking . . . to my mind it makes no difference if it's personal/non compensated or any other BS. Other blokes wives and families are out there on the highway and rules are rules and I find your line of thinking completely screwed. Put in the time and go practice some emergency stops and getting out of shape with one of those little rigs loaded to the limit on wet road and see how good you are. Cheers.
Andy, Let's assume for a moment you are right, (even though I don't think you are), You go on this trip and get stopped or pull into a scale; Now, you are driving a truck that you say doesn't fall under any of these regs because you are not making money with it, but does fall under these regs if it's not an RV. OK, now how are you going to convince this officer that a truck registered to a company, (your LLC), pulling a trencher, is an RV? I think they will issue you big tickets, and I know NC at least probably won't let the truck move until a driver with a CDL, medical card, and logbook gets there, (remember my story about going to get my cousin's trucks?). If you're right, the only way you're going to get out of it is to go back to that state in a month or two and convince a judge of it. Good Luck, and let us know how you come out. BTW, Scrub Puller has a very valid argument, too.
In post #48 I meant to say combination,NOT carrying,as in GVCWR(gross vehicle combination weight rating).
Yair . . . Mitch504 Appreciate that mate. I suppose I was sticking my nose in again, I have no knowledge of your regulations . . . it was the Original Posters thought process that had me bothered. Cheers.
Andyinchville . this is a quote from you in anther thread in General Industry Questions Advice on plow / trencher for large cable mainline job 02-16-2015 Quote " I have an opportunity to do a fair amount of mainline plowing work (supposedly over 9000 feet on one job with others to follow) for the local phone company (they are installing fiber mainline.....conduit appears to be 1.25 inch diameter that needs to go in 30" deep...clay type soil / some rocks). Currently I mainly do drop bury work but looking to do more for them hopefully become their go to guy for jobs" Unquote And then you said in your last post here. QUOTE"On the flip side, if a person is in business and being compensated in some way then the CDL / DOT rules apply in full force"..endQUOTE Looks to me like you fall under the full force of the CDL / DOT rules.
Andy the fact that your truck is registered to a Limited Liability Corporation is the reason it's commercial - end of story.
We're looking at this all wrong guys, if we'd have encouraged him to go, look how much revenue he'd donate for a whole host of entities, I'm thinking we're depriving many of viable income by discouraging him. That and some learn faster, and retain it much longer if they learn through their wallet.
why don't you just hire it done and you wouldn't have to worry about nothing just how you were going to unload simple all said and done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So what was the point of this? Were you just using us for practice, figuring if you could convince us it was OK, you could convince a judge or DOT cop? Or, were you trying to get a bunch of us to say it was OK, planning to show it to the judge for your ignorance defense? I have bought several trailers and machines in other states, and it has always rankled a bit hiring someone to bring them to me when I had the equipment on the yard to transport them safely and properly; but, I could almost always hire it done for the cost of the permits for the states I wasn't apportioned for.
Yeah .... Andy has a couple options .... Get the CDL & DOT number and use existing equipment , ( Dodge 1 ton dually and 12 ton econoline trailer ) . Or .... Downsize the trailer to something like this so he is under the CDL GVWR combination . http://cornprotrailer.net/heavy-duty-utility-trailers/ If he operates " Intrastate " and never gets out of Virginia he may very well not need the DOT number ? I don't see Virginia listed as a state requiring the DOT number . http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/do-i-need-usdot-number FMCSA is not even sure about it . http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/faq/i-am-i...on-hazardous-materials-do-i-need-usdot-number
Well with the discussion of DOT numbers I went to look if our operation needed one. Yeah I know I should've done it already.. Anyway with the link on the FMCSA to Alabama goes right the Q&A of whether you need a DOT # in Alabama, turns out I do not.
In SC, you can haul a D6 with an F250 and the DOT cops don't seem to care. But his original post was about crossing 5 states on a 900 mile trip.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4zyjLyBp64
HI All, In keeping all my options open (not ruling out the self haul option still though...heck, I even bought a trailer just to do it and have even done a fair amount of legal research into it the legality of self transport)....I decided to also at least test the waters on how much it would cost to get the machine transported by others (i.e. shipping / trucking type people).....So far the lowest price I have is about $1500 from a transport company (I don't know them just a transport company). In theory,assuming my truck would get maybe 9 MPGs pulling the trencher over 1800 miles (driving at about 50 MPH max to maximize fuel economy and safety), my costs would be about 200 gallons of fuel at maybe $3.00 per gallon (I think AAA had diesel at 2.95 per gallon national avg)....Anyways about $600 for fuel (plus maybe another $100 in case I don' t get good mileage), plus I would need about 3 or 4 nights in a hotel (maybe even 5 to make a more fun vacation sightseeing trip)...plus on the road food and misc souvenirs along the way)...the net real cost may not be that much to have it transported but then I would be missing out a potentially nice mini family vacation that at some point I would have taken anyways so I could possibly kill 2 birds with one stone here. As far as commercial use of this particular machine (as quoted above - the trencher) , while the possibility always exists for most anything to be used commercially (and there was an opportunity for it at one time which has unfortunately has apparently gone away (unfortunately because my contractor friend told me about it and could have moved a machine for me since he works at the same site) , I still need it and needed it before the opportunity came up because I need to fix stuff around my property for a pretty long while now (driveway etc...)....So , I am buying the machine to fix on my stuff first (again personal use) and then look into the possibility of pimping it out later as "icing" on the cake (The money I save by doing stuff for myself generally always pays for the machine first and then I have it left over for more around the house type things or the possibility of actually making money with it....However, unfortunately due to my regular work keeping me busy most of the time, my "icing on the cake" scenarios never seems materialize or at least not materialize very often (I suppose this may be to the disappointment of some neighbors as my yard generally gets filled with neat "stuff" I use on my property which later become lawn ornaments). I generally research stuff first but ultimately I think I am more of an "armchair warrior" (I think that is the term) than an actual doer in a commercial sense.. (If you look further, in other posts I have done on this site I asked for opinions on a Case backhoe and track loader (both of which I ultimately got for personal use) and even a roll off truck .... I got valuable info here on this forums and that's great!...If you want to know where most of the neat toys are talked about...this would be the place...FWIW I never did get a roll off truck even though I looked seriously at it....I did get the smaller F800 tho. As an example of "stuff" I have done, I looked into "Net Metering" power after my purchase of a generator for my home (because I got tired of losing power...regrettably I learned of net metering after buying a large gas generator or I may have gotten a diesel one and burn W85 to make power), I looked into becoming a professional welder after I bought my huge welder (a 6 cylinder powered 300A trailer mounted welder because because I needed some welding and I hated waking up early to catch the local mobile welder to do things and I kinda had a problem paying him his minimum $45 charge for just less than 1 minute of weld time (literally) ....and he just lived down the street from me!, I bought a backhoe (case 680) to fix my own septic system.... my 2 septic repairs - (needed) ...paid for the backhoe BUT I also researched into the possibility of doing it commercially (heck I needed some of that huge profit of installing septics !!)...Actually in thinking about it, I got into the lawn care business (mowing) because after buying a house I had to get a mower (similarly I got a power washer and added it to my business name after a painter said I had to power wash the house before painting (after I learned and saw how the power wash was done and the fact that it only took him 1 hour to charge $200 I was all on top of that! ;-) .... So in summary I typically get stuff to use it personally (except maybe the power washer because my house got washed first before I got my machine....BUT then again I held the power washer man off and did my own deck, sidewalk, outbuildings, and deck!...gotta save the money) and think how great it would be to make the big bucks commercially tho unfortunately that really has yet to happen....hence my looking at cheaper machines to use around the house. If I started using stuff commercially (at least the big heavy stuff over 26K) I would look into getting a CDL tho because it wouldn't be reasonable to tow a huge machine to a construction site for personal reasons!....and if it were commercial use I would get a cdl... On the other hand, if I knew what I know now I would have gotten a heavier dump truck to move stuff to the dump...not that I actually haul that much stuff to the dump (I intentionally got a less than 26K rated truck because I thought you need a CDL for a big truck....since the dump truck is mainly just to haul stuff to the dump for me personally (and since I have over 7 acres I could be classified as a farm) I could have gotten the bigger BUT on the flip side, I guess I could deliver mulch commercially with out worries since even with commercial use the truck is under CDL limits. Oh well, hopefully tomorrow I get to talk to some of the other states powers that be in regards to my potential trip to FL....I'll keep you posted as to my findings Thanks Andrew PS - Side thought : anybody here haul stuff for money or trade?...PM me if interested....
Yair . . . Andyinchville. Life isn't that hard mate, don't make mountains out of molehills, you must learn how to relax. I have to hand it to you though, you cover all the angles. (big grin) Cheers.
This was a very entertaining thread. A valiant attempt by the OP at rationalizing the decision to take this commercial and questionable truck trailer combo on an adventure. The reality is that he probably could make the journey without going thru a DOT colonoscopy. The truth is simple: You can't have the best of both worlds. You need a class A CDL license and all the other FMCSA compliance blah blah blah to do this legally with your commercially registered and commercially insured commercial truck and commercial trailer combination. And this is so for one reason: When a trained officer pulls you over or you pass thru a weigh station, they will see thru all your personal use nonsense, they know what your attorney doesn't know, they know what the dumbasses you have called and asked questions to don't know, as well as your local officers don't know. That is the business of interstate transportation and commerce. And they will stick it to you, dry. Because that is their job.
Hit the nail on the head. If the vehicle is registered to a Corporation , it's commercial period, end of story.
For somebody who likes to call every cop out there a Barney Fife, you'd think you would be better informed. A combined weight of 26,001 lbs does no automatically require a CDL, even for a driver clearly in commerce. CDL's are required for (1) Straight trucks greater than 26K (2) Combinations greater than 26K where the trailer is greater than 10K. A 24K truck hauling a 8K trailer would not require a CDL. I always laugh at the mis- or ill-informed like Tuney, who make up for lack of knowledge with volume or mass.
First off,I do NOT call every cop Barney,whether here on HEF or anywhere else,obviously you don't know me so your comment there is both unprovoked and unappreciated to say the least. Second,your quoting my 26,001 comment is out of context as I was specifically targeting the OP's GCVWR which was going to be way over the 26,001 lb. minimum and yes indeed his trailer was over the 10K lb. threshold. Next is the fact that not only did I inject the FMCSA regs in that post you quoted me regarding the weight laws, but also in my post #11---further proof that you sir either can't read or only read what is convenient for you to do so. Lastly,if and when you come back to the table in the future,you had damn better either be better informed with your facts before attacking someone who has most likely forgot half of what you will ever learn.
I doubt that you're that much more knowledgeable than my dog, let alone me , Goober. Your ego knows no bounds.
You have now stooped to the level below unreasonable,using names in a childish manner because you were caught,can't refute my facts,and simply won't man up.Ego has NOTHING to do with my rebuttal and I'm sure most members will agree.
All I can say is WOW, and everyone better settle the hell down or CM or someone else is going to shut this whole damn thing down. Now, I am going to do some research, and I believe that I am going to find the the 26,000 lb limit is GROSS COMBINED VEHICLE WEIGHT. Now, I may be wrong, but I don't think I am. Now, your point about a 24,000 truck pulling an 8,000 trailer is valid, but if you drive that on a scale and you weigh 32,000 lbs, I'm fairly certain you need a CDL to drive it.
Here is North Dakota's CDL guide. It clearly says Gross Vehicle Weight. Page 1. Knocker of Rock, I'm pretty sure this is the case in EVERY state in the union. Feel free to prove me wrong. Otherwise, APOLOGIZE. http://www.dot.nd.gov/divisions/driverslicense/docs/class_c1.pdf On edit: By the way, Knocker, I have driven over 1.5 million miles in 16 states and 4 Canadian provinces. I hope that's enough for you.
OK boys simmer down. When the topic of CDL's and the commercial rules comes up sometimes it gets heated as the rules are confusing. Let's take a look at the Forum Rules - Let's focus on the mature manner aspect and all act like adults, as it would be a shame to close this thread as there is some valuable information - away from the small amount of bickering that's went on.:cool2
Every one on this forum is retarded cdl is for foreigners who cant drive legally. That is where cdl is derived from basically. i just wanted to get in on the action since nobody really knows the laws even the guys enforcing it half the time. My only word of advice is to call your local compliance officer and have them fax you a copy of the statues stating w.e they say to back you up so if you do get stopped it will be better than a he said she said argument about the time you called the dot office
HI All, Here is my most recent update to my potential equipment transportation situation.... Of the states I have to travel through (VA, NC, SC, GA, and FL)..... 1) VA does not require a CDL or DOT # for personal use. I saw the code section but forgot where I put the code numbers numbers. Also, I did go to our DMV to get a copy of the CDL manual and in the added Virgina Supplement (to the CDL manual) there is a statement that reads "Vehicles operated by persons only for personal use, such as recreational vehicles and moving vans" exists as an exemption to the standard CDL requirements. Per the trooper I spoke with and the FMCSA man , this is the reason even though my stickered GVWR ratings added up to 35K (in my case) , If used only for personal use, I would not be required to have a CDL or DOT #s in VA (or in the case of and per the FMCSA man in the entire USA). Interesting side note for VA....The trooper I spoke with said ANY vehicle (commercial or not) with a stickered weight (GVW) over 8800 lbs (single or combo (total stickered GVW) as in pulling a trailer) must stop in at weigh stations! wow so technically be aware of that in some heavier rated vehicles ( the trooper did say they typically let duallies (unless obviously commercial and RV etc typically slide on this law). 2) NC is OK with the personal use exemption and follows FMCSA guidelines...suggested I pass through weight stations tho. 3) SC - The attorney from SC said there were no personal use exemptions from the CDL requirements.....I will have to get a second opinion on that because of what the FMCSA man said earlier....also It would really stink if every other state was OK with it and SC wants to hold me up on a CDL... 4) GA - GA is FMCSA so it appears they are personal use exempted as well. 5) I still have not been able to speak with somebody at the FL dept of Transportation despite waiting on hold for over 30 minutes at a time on several different attempts to reach then...I'll try again tomorrow probably On the flip side, just for the heck of it, I did get my DOT medical certificate (the same one requ'd of CDL drivers.....basically, I looked at it as a cheap physical ($100) and in VA you must have the certificate first before you can even take the test for a CDL (in case I want to formally get my CDL because I may eventually / potentially haul commercially) ...OR on the other hand IF I do take the trip and SC / FL does hold me to a CDL (despite what the FMCSA man said) at least they can't fine me for not having a medical card and safety equipment (I will have reflective triangles, spare fuses, and a fire extinguisher with me if I take the trip). The saga continues.... Andrew
There is a reason why the GVW on my F450 is 15,000 and 10,000 on my flatbed. In Minnesota I know for a fact that a non-CDL driver can gross 26,000 total with a stipulated maximum of 10,000 for trailers. I have never had a DOT officer tell me otherwise. They say that it would be better if I got a higher class license, but all I need is my medical card and I am set for what I drive. I may seem to be oversimplifying things, but that is how it has always been understood here; cross the 26,000 total for truck and trailer and open up a large can of works, well, actually the can is probably full of paperwork.
Seriously, you are claiming to be the victim? Even though without knowing me, you told me you have forgotten much more than I've ever known, implying I am stupid regarding these facts.
You need to APOLOGIZE to me A combination greater than 26K where the towed vehicle (i.e.: the trailer) has a rating of greater than 10K. My example stands, a tractor of 25,999 towing a trailer of 9,999 does not need a CDL. Read the law carefully, I was in charge of many truck drivers like you. I audit their books and explained the laws to them. Even signed their checks
I see six pages of people arguing about the LEGALITIES of doing something profoundly unsafe. Perhaps I missed something...?
We live in a country where it doesn't really have to be safe if no laws are broken. Think about it do you know how hard it is for people who have never operated anything larger than a prius to come up with laws regulating all these trucks
Thread temporarily closed for a cooling off period. CM1995 gave a warning, it's been ignored. You can spend your "time out" reviewing the rules page.