Goodmorning everyone, I just got back from visiting the site of a pool that a customer wants demolished. I need a hand estimating this one (still very new in the game). The pictures below will say more then my words however the pool is 12'x25' with a 3' wooden walkway around it. The side walls are galvanized sheet metal with supports in a concrete surround. The concrete appears to be only a few inches thick with small pours at each of the supports measuring approximately 1 cubic foot. The structure is 4' above the ground and roughly 5' in the ground at the deepest. I am unsure of the structure below the ground level. In-ground pools usually just have the liner siting against a hard-packed sand. Would the galvanized metal extend below the surface of the ground? I would probably scrap the metal, thrash the liner separate from the wood and get a 10yard dumster for the concrete. I will probably need 10 yards of fill dirt to fill the hole and do grading away from the house. I am debating using my 1-ton dump for the wood and liner however I may want to just get a can. I would probably rent an excavator with a thumb to do the demo. I will have side gate access. I also need to call the county to see if I need a permit. Any clue from any Marylanders on here if I would need one? Thanks for all the help guys!
Are you sure you are qualified to do this job? Some of the stuff you're asking is pretty basic. You don't know if you need a permit? 10yds of fill dirt is less than a full dump truck and just a real simple calculation (4ydsx 8ydsx2yds) says you'll probably need over 60 yds. That's 5 dump trucks but could need more depending on how it packs down. Does the fill have to be compacted as you go? If you have to rent ALL of the equipment to do the job, I don't know if you could make any profit.
Good point but I wasn't "qualified" to do demo when I took my first house down either. Straightexhaust you should be able to get all the wood, coping and the liner in a 30 yard. Scrap the metal and send the concrete to an inert dump if one is available. Like welder dave said, you'll need more than 10 yards of dirt to fill that hole, without even doing the math that stuck out. Permits and licensing vary from city to city, be sure and check first.
I did a pool similar to that years ago, the walls were attached to steel c-channel, used a gas powered cut-off saw. Cut everything into manageable pieces and hauled it out by hand. In the towns I work, usually we need to have a permit so that the pool is taken off the homeowners tax assessment.
Sorry I didn't mean to type 10 yards, I was thinking 10 loads with my 5 yard dump totaling 50 yards. The place to get fill dirt is only 5-7 miles from the site so I may just haul myself unless they have free delivery that close. If the metal doesn't form a structure underneath the liner then an excavator would be just a convenience. I would just use my skid steer with my grapple to get the steel out and do the cutting with a chopsaw. I mostly am just posting for plan of attack advice. As far as a permit goes I know you need one to install a pool and some counties only require one for demo to get the pool removed off of your lot plan for tax purposes, just didn't know if anyone would know before I played phone games with the state.
Are they actually requiring you to remove all the concrete most pool demos ive done i break the bottom of the pool in a few spots do it does not hold water knock the top half of the walls into the pool cover it with fill then fill and compact in 1 ft lifts. Ive only ever had to do 2 pool demos that required removing all the concrete and that was only because they were building a larger pool in its place. Every single one has needed a permit but most contractors pull the permits out them selves i seldom jave to pull permits for demos
I worked up a dollar figure this morning so far minus a possible permit. I'm curious to hear estimates from you guys though
I was told by the home owner that there in no concrete below the ground other then the small footings and the pad. The liner is just against sand, I told him that it will be extra if this is not true and will be written on the estimate.
Seems like way too many unknown variables for us AND you to bid this job.Does the town[NOT the state] require a demo permit,electrical inspection[termination of any electrical components],what,if anything can be buried,type of fill,any compaction requirements????????
Straightexhaust just go down to the local building inspections dept. that covers this area and tell them about the job and ask what type of permits are involved. If this is located in a municipality where you do not have a business license be sure and include that cost in the bid. The city want's their piece of the pie..
The Anne Arundel County Permit office got back to me and said that a building plan is required. Will have to add that into the cost now.
the last pool i demoed i charged 5k for a 15x30 i left the concrete i had to bring in 4 loads of fill and 2 loads of top soil and it took me 2 days start to finish me pulling the permits
What type of pool was it, in or out of ground? Vinyl or concrete?
concrete, in ground
Did you just demo the top edge and drop the concrete into the hole then, and the then fill and compact it?
I busted out the bottom so it wouldnt hold any water rip off the coping and the first foot or so tossed it into the pool pushed all the pavers int the pool also the filed compacted filled in a few low spot in the yard graded the whoe thing and i was out of there
I emailed the customer this morning stating that the total would be $2010. The breakdown is $160 to create a plot plan for the county,$50 for the permit, $900 in labor for the demo, and $900 for the haul away ($450 for a 10 yard for concrete, $450 for a 30 yard for debris). The customer called back this afternoon stating that he likes the price but is going to push the job back to the end of summer because he is going to have some trees taken down. What do you guys think of the price?
How in depth does the plan need to be? Does it need an engineer's stamp? I don't know about where you are, but around here roll offs are brutal. Good luck getting them to drop off a 30, bring back a 10, swap, dump, and come back to get the 10 all before the end of the day. What about fill and grading? You have to rent machines? What is site access like? I think your a little low. That would go for $3,000 at least all day long around here. And that's using a triaxle for disposal. My estimate: Plot plan - RFI Permit - $100 ($50 plus your time) Concrete disposal - $300 Trash disposal - $300 20 yards of fill - $100 1 day Triaxle rental - $720 1 day Bobcat rental - $800 1 day Excavator rental - $800 Total - $3,120
The plot plan just needs to be a scale drawing showing the house, pool, and other structures. I was going to do it on the computer but the program sketch-up apparently has a huge learning curve so engineering style graph paper is what I drew it on. I have my own skid steer (LS170), truck with dump box, and trailer that I would use for the demo using a root grapple. I was originally going to rent a mini ex for the demo but with the depth of it I think I can muscle it with the skid and then the small stuff by hand to keep some money in my pocket. A mini excavator is my planned purchase this fall. I estimated $330 of fill. Around 50 yards. Free delivery from a local place
Last pool i did here is how i broke it down backhoe 600 per day top soil 350x2 fill 150x4 labor 200 compactor 350 skid steer 500x2 1500 for sod installed i sub that out Thats how i came.up.with the 5k number thats how i broke it down
Mind you for permits i ussually request them and pull them but just have the customer pay it directly since we can request the permits online most of the time but if i physically have to walk in and submit it they are going to pay for it
Where is your profit, overhead and mobilization?
How much do you set aside for overhead out of the machine charges? Right now I work mine as $90/hr for machine time with a 4 hour minimum. The breakdown is $35/hr going in my pocket and the remaining $55/hr going towards fuel, maintenance and then the rest for machine replacement cost. This is how I have been estimating work, asside from expenses I base my estimates of of how many machine hours I will have.
That was just an idea of direct costs. Fill is free, we usually don't handle the planning and permitting process, and concrete and trash disposal is a little high so there's some profit there. We used to demo a lot of pools for a local pool contractor, but that's dried up. We still do a few a year. Our usual bid on a pool this size is $3,500. So that leaves about 17% for profit and overhead margin. Mobilization for our small stuff is usually just figured in on the day rate unless we go outside of a 30 minute radius, then we'll charge accordingly.
For hard bid jobs I add profit and overhead as a separate line item on top of equipment, materials and labor costs. So this is how I do it - Skid 10 hrs X $80 per = $800 D5G 10 hrs X $100 per = $1000 SubTotal $1800 Profit 10% $180 OH 2% $36 Mob. 2 each $400 Total bid $2416 Those numbers are just for example.
I appreciate all the help from you guys on here. If I get the job this summer I will be sure to update the thread with pictures, final price and how it all went.
I don't know how you guys charge so little and make money. Running a business is expensive. I charge twice that amount for sidewalk remove and replace.
''FILL IS FREE''.You might get the product ''free'',but you still have to truck it don't you?Notwithstanding that,why would you not add the going rate cost into your figuring in the first place????????You can discount it some but to just give it away free,the same price as you paid is crazy IMHO.I for one am definitely not afraid of making money.
The problem is other guys here undercut so much it aint funny had a guy just now walk up to a jobsite and talk to the pm that he has a backhoe like mine and charges 45 an hour. i told the pm you get what you pay for. I told him Good luck wait till he hit the first pipe he finds in the ground or just dang on takes for ever to do any little job you guy will miss me especially since he probably does not have insurance
"Fill is free". I have learned that nothing is free. There is always something attached. At the same time , the home owner , most generally will lie or if not a lie will miss inform you as well. That pool most likely has a type I mix in the bottom of it resulting in a 2500lb concrete base. I have never seen an in ground pool with sand in the deep end. I have dug several and help build them. It is possible that the bottom of the galvanized sides are set in concrete. They are supposed to be. The pool looks like any other in ground kit but they put the top 42" or there abouts above ground for some reason. Could be setting on solid rock. The main thing , don't cut yourself short , it sucks to feel like your working for nothing, I know I have done it the last three days.
No doubt they'll get what they pay for at $45 per hour, that's crazy. You're right there is no way he can operate at that rate and have a $1M liability insurance policy.
The roblem with miami is every body has a "hook up" people running around with stolen equipment, using stolen fuel, fake insurance documents etc....
If you actually looked before commenting I have a truck in there for the day. Also, people are always looking for a dump site. If we don't have another job with fill coming off it, 1 call will get you a load of fill, and the job it's coming from 9 times out of 10 is paying for it. For the second time, these were rough costs. This isn't my job, I didn't look at the site, and don't plan on it.
I may be blind, but where exactly is the sidewalk pictured above that is being "removed and replaced"? We do plenty of flatwork removal every year for a couple local GC's. Bobcat E42 with a 30" severe duty bucket or hammer is $100 to $120 an hour, S185/T190 with a bucket is $100/hr, and 2 yard loader is $140 hr, they take care of trucking and new flat work. Going rate is $4 to $5 a s.f. for removal
Sorry,didn't go back far enough regarding the trucking.Regarding fill,it is a very unique commodity.Either you have a surplus on your jobsite that you have to move ASAP and now it's a huge liability so you might offer it for free to other contractors to pick up or worse,you might end up paying to have it removed.Then there are times when you get paid to remove it and can sell it on the other end.99.9999% of the time I find the latter.Supply and demand at it's greatest.
...
We obviously always charge for trucking and disposal of a job has excess fill to get rid of. We put a little bit on top of the trucking, but hire it out unless it's a short distance, then we'll do it with our 6 wheeler. The price we charge for disposal obviously depends on whether its a free dump or we're paying. For regular fill we try to get $5/yd on each end.