I'm preparing to add a crane to the flatbed section on the right rear of my service truck. The crane I'll be adding is an IMT 2015, which is a 5k lb crane...but I want to design the reinforcements / outriggers / etc to work with a 10k-lb crane in the future. My cousin, a mechanical engineer, is designing the underbed reinforcement for the crane, but I still have a couple of questions for anyone who has a 10,000-lb or larger capacity crane on their service truck. 1. Outrigger horizontal tubing (the slide-out assembly). What are the cross-sectional dimensions of your outer and inner tubes? (Height, width, and wall thickness if you can tell? Basically, I'm trying to figure out if they're making their own special tubing sizes or using mass-produced stuff. How far does your inner tube slide out? 2. Leveling. How are you keeping your truck level when it goes down the road? The truck sits level at this time, but I expect the crane and reinforcement to add around 2,000 lbs to that side of the truck. My truck's an International 4900 with spring suspension and air brakes. It weighs 20k now and the GVW is 33k. I've heard of supplemental airbags but am only finding the tiny ones for pickup trucks. Suggestions welcome.
any spring shop can put the add-a-leaf springs in. or make you a new spring pack that will support the extra weight.. my old truck had 4 extra springs on the crane side. as far as outriggers go, DONT MESS AROUND WITH TRYING TO MAKE THEM YOU ARE ASKING FOR ALOT OF LIABILITY IF YOU DO!!!! u could tip a truck over or worse!!! I saw a homemade outrigger fold up on a 5000# autocrane with only 2200#s on it & lucky no one was hurt & the load was close to the ground, but just think if you were in a engine compartment & it happened!!!! just not worth it...
FSERVICE, Thanks for your reply. Your warning about liability is spot-on, and if I were not a professional welder, I'd be spending the big bucks buying an outrigger assembly. However, I weld for a living, and with a mechanical engineer doing the design work, I'm willing to accept the liability. Heck, my Welding General Liability policy aggregate would probably build a couple of Wal-Marts. Maybe I should explain the question more. The underbody reinforcements are already designed and I've watched them flex with his 3D modeling software. We already know from the computer models that our outrigger horizontals will be in the 5" x 7" size range. What we're trying to decide is how much 'gap' there should be in the nested tubing, and whether the mainline makers are using specially-sized or commercially-availabe tubing. That's why I'm asking about wall thickness, especially on the fixed outer segment. Wall thickness will also depend on how far the inner tube extends, which is why I asked that question. We're only trying to keep from completely reinventing the wheel on this part of the project because honestly, there's no need to custom-design this part of the build. I understand if no one is willing to step forward and help in the public domain. Please feel free to send me a PM with the info if you're so inclined.
Yeah JBI , if you are set on building the outriggers go look at a IMT bed in person & see how they are set up . We have built several service cranes & winch trucks over the years . Might even check out IMT's website for ideas www.imt.com/en-US/Home.html
Standard tubing sizes usually will work fine, allow 3/8" or so gap between the outside dimensions of the inner tube and your calculated inside dimensions of the outer tube. Some small pieces of sacrificial plate for slide blocks work nicely to take up the slack. Make the tubes long enough to extend to the other side of the vehicle without being overwidth, that will give you the maximum overlap with a reasonable extension. I like the fore and aft setup, with one tube ahead of the other and skip welded so they act as doublers for each other. :my2c
Thanks for the additional replies. Over the past month or two I've been on Auto Crane, IMT, Maintainer, and Liftmoore's websites looking at different outrigger designs. Some of their websites have great pictures and the different ideas are interesting. td25c, I don't know anyone in our area with a 10,000 lb crane on a service truck, otherwise you could bet I'd be standing by those outriggers, tape measure in hand! lantraxco, I'd been thinking of weld-on slide blocks also, until I saw on somebody's site (Auto Crane, maybe?) a design which had roller bearings for the slideout. There were two bearings for each outrigger -- one was in the bottom outer end of the fixed tube, and the other was on the top side inner end of the sliding tube. Pretty slick idea if it works...when you jack up the outrigger it unloads both bearings and you get solid contact. I also like the side-by-side design you're talking about, and hope to use it on my truck if I can. I've already got a fair amount of body past the rear wheels, so I have to be careful about overhang too. By the way, here's the truck we're talking about, you can skip to the last page if you don't want to read about the build: http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?359231-T-Bone-s-New-Truck-Thread&highlight=tbone So is everybody running add-a-leafs to level their crane bodies?
How about mounting the crane in the center rear section of the bed and use out riggers front & rear off an old line truck like the power companies used . Riggers come out & down at about 45 degree angle . Pretty common setup and would help balance out the truck .
Honestly it hadn't occurred to me to center the crane. I can see pluses and minuses to that type of design. Losing a couple feet of operating radius over the side and tying up bed space dead center of the truck are the biggest issues I see with it. Having the boom stowed dead center down the length of the truck would really cut into what I can haul on the bed. My current design has the crane sitting on a 21" tall platform at the right rear corner, which will give just enough clearance for the boom to stow horizontal over the welder. That leaves an area nearly 48" wide by 14' long running down the center of the truck that I can haul materials on. Here's the only picture I've got from the right rear corner of the truck. Took it while I was mounting the welder, but you can see how we were planning to use the space. Here's another from the side, a little more recent.
Yeah JBI , looks like the S model International is coming together nicely . Those were tough trucks . How do you like the Miller Trailblazer ? I have the old Trailblazer 250 (bought it back in 1992) Been a good welder over the years . I know what you mean about pluses & minuses of a center vs. side mount crane on a truck . This diagram shows a better picture of a center rear mount set up . It's a Pitman Polecat digger derrick boom with 9,500 pound capacity @ 4' boom radius .
I would lean more towards a center Mont boom on a pedestal right behind the cab. You don't lose any reach over the side because with a side mounted boom you still have to stay far enough away to pull out a 7ft outrigger. If you put it right behind the cab I would put it on a tall enough pedestal so you can store it with the boom tip out over the hood. You don't lose hardly any bed space and it seems the truck itself would be balanced better that way Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
Mine's a Trailblazer 302. This is the second 302 I've had, and it runs great for what it is. It doesn't have as 'perfect' of an arc as a straight-DC-generator welder like the older SA-200's and several of Lincoln's newer models, but the arc is more than acceptable. Leaps and bounds over the cheaper Bobcats, which I hate. The newest Trailblazers (325's, I think?) are no longer offered with AC, so no more TIG aluminum with those units. The 302 is AC/DC. As a multiprocess power source, it does well. I wouldn't try to use it for arc gouging, but I have gouging tips for my torch for that. The best part is that it weighs 1/3 of what the liquid-cooled industrial welders do. I can't think of a job I've had where I NEEDED more than 300A. Most of the time my amp dial's set between 125 and 175. I carry a Miller 12RC suitcase feeder that makes short work of longer jobs or, with a wire, tip, and liner change, thinner material than I'd want to stick weld. I carry a 30A spoolgun, too. Best thing about it is my shop welder is a multiprocess XMT 304 that uses all the same Miller 14-pin accessories as the Trailblazer, so if I want to MIG weld in the shop, I just pull the Suitcase off the truck, plug it in, and go. My bottle of 75/25 has a 30' hose on it and stays on the truck no matter what. As a system, it's really worked out well. If I was pipe-welding I'd probably be looking at something more along the lines of whatever Miller's newest PipePro machine is, or giving Lincoln's new(er) SAE-300 a try.
I like your idea, but unfortunately in my case it wouldn't work. My shop door clears the truck's headboard by 3", so I have to keep everything on the truck at headboard height or below. My shop's a quonset-hut style building, and there's no room to make the doors higher.
I really like the bed/body set up on your truck. Myself, I would stick with the corner mount crane. leaves the center open for longer materials etc. As far as the Trailblazer 302, I have 2 of them and for the same reason. Portability. I do quite a bit of irrigation pipefitting and repair, in addition to equipment repair, those things will run 3/16s 5P all day long at 205 amps just fine. I sold off a couple of SA-200s and havent looked back. I figure for the price, "When the paint is faded It gets traded".
I have a trailblazer 251nt. And it runs my gouger just fine. I'd stick with the corner mount crane. Seems like it's too much wasted space in the center. I built the mount and outriggers for mine but it's only a 3000lb setup. And I'll say I wish I'd a built it heavier. Next time...
Yeah JBI , the Trailblazer 302 sounds like a nice rig . Much like my old Trailblazer 250 as it has the 14 pin plug in . I also bought the 30A spool gun and Tig box with the 250 . Pretty versatile machine and enough amps to run an air arc for gouging . what was cool about the 30A spool gun is I can also use it on my Millermatic 250 mig welder in the shop. It's about the same age as the Trailblazer . Damn good welders . The only thing I've had to do to the Trailblazer is replace brushes & change oil and a battery every 4 or 5 years . The biggest part of my in field welding is 1/8 inch 6011's & 7018's . We are looking at newer gas drive welders and trying to make a decision on what model to get .
So you guys that are gouging with 250 amp machines, what size gouging rod are you using? My old Bobcat 250 didnt like much more than 5/32. Havent tried the Trailblazer yet. I imagine on CV maxed out it should handle 3/16" easy. Oh. so far most of the gouging i have done off the TB has been with my 375 extreme plasma cutter. Also have run a Dynasty 200 off it doing aluminum piping.
I know it can be done, but personally, I won't gouge with a light welder like the TB. If I were spec'ing a welder knowing it'd have gouging duties, I'd skip all of the smaller air-cooled welders and go for something liquid-cooled in the 400A + heavy industrial range. However, that's just my opinion and it seems like some of y'all are having success with it. I'd be interested to know how many hours a small engine-drive would hold together under gouging duties. As far as the newer machines, I haven't checked into their reliability but I'd probably look hard at an EFI welder these days, likely something along the lines of the TB 325 even though you lose AC. While I've never had carb trouble with my 302's, it'd be nice to save some fuel and not have to fool with the choke on every start...even on a hot start both of mine have always needed a quick pull out / push in of the choke during cranking to get them running. RZucker brings up another point in favor of the TB and other welders with separate welding / power generators which is that you can run a second electric welder off the 240V plug on the engine-drive. When I've needed a super-smooth arc with better DIG adjustability I've run my XMT 304 off my TB with no problems. Did it for a solid month building a stainless fence around a pawn shop. If I'd have had some help, I should've theoretically been able to weld at a healthy output with the TB at the same time the XMT was welding.
I use 1/4" carbon rod with the air arc on the Trailblazer 250 . Seems to work ok but then again I'm not doing it day in and out . Most repairs I might use the air arc for say 15 to 30 minutes then weld it back up . My 250 has the 20 horse Onan engine . One thing I like about the Trailblazer is it was capable of a lot of different tasks . I plan on keeping it around just looking for a newer model to take it's place .
I havent tried it yet on my TB 302s. I know that my old SA 200 would struggle with a 1/4" carbon, I have been told if I do use The TB for gouging to run on CV, More actual power ouitput that way.
I bet it will work fine on the TB 302 RZucker . I also have a Miller gas drive 200 LE mounted on my Kenworth . Not sure what year it is but I'm guessing early to mid 1980's . Pretty good machine overall for its age .We use it a lot on in field repair & power source . I never tried using the air arc with the 200 LE but I would imagine it would struggle as well with it . I want to say it's rated at 16 or 18 horse power but I'm not sure .
Lucky for me, The last few heavy gouging jobs have been at the shop where I could use my trusty old Airco 450 CV power source. 5/8" carbon ? no problem. Used a lot of 5/8x3/16" carbons for reshaping large cable drill bits.
Yeah RZucker , Those old Airco's were tough reliable machines . My first employer had one in his shop , very handy welder .
You surely cant kill it. I have really tried. The original feeder died a few years back and I replaced it with a miller That runs on 115VAC. Plugged right in with the miller patch cord kit. Funny its 10 times the feeder the old airco was. It seems to just love 1/16" dual shield.