Cat D5K2, Komatsu D39px-24, John Deere 650K?? Good and bad of them all? Also D6K2, Komatsu D51px24, Deere 700K or 700L? Building a personal pond that has turned into a major project. The Cat D5N XL i was using is down. I'm scared if i go down to the 105 hp machines, I'm going to miss the extra weight and power. But I've gotten into some wet areas. So if I go with the 30k pound machines, it will be harder to retrieve if I get stuck. I have a 210hp 24,000 pound tractor and 21,000 pound excavator on site if i get stuck. Also, the D5N XL will hopefully be available in 3-4 weeks guessing. I've got quite a bit to push out of the pond area. I've removed topsoil from areas outside of the pond to get good clay. I've had to do this in about 3 separate areas so far. So I have a decent amount of dressing up and spreading topsoil back over. By end of the year I plan to sell the dozer as I don't need 1 (except now). I'm thinking the 20-22k pound dozer may be easier to sell since more people can move them than a 30k pound machine. Possibly more interest in the smaller size as land owners, farmers, loggers may be interested. Just looking for input on dozer reliability across the 3 brands mentioned in these models. And opinion on resell. I was talking to 1 person (trying to sell a JD) that said komatsu can push drive oil into the hydraulics (not sure how that happens). Said it's about $30k repair. On JD, it's about a $5k repair. I'm hoping to be able to get an extended warranty. But there is a local retired Car mechanic that still does side work and also a local JD field mechanic that does as well. So that is a plus for JD and Cat. I'm in Alabama Thanks in advance!!
Can't help with a review of the Cat or Komatsu other than I haven't heard much negative on the operations side. Both are very good overall. I do have a Deere 650K LGP. It is an awesome grading machine. I would not want to be roughing in a pond with one though. It's just not a good machine at pushing lots of material. When we built my pond the smallest machine here was a 700K LGP along with a 850k. And we were done in a week. ( We also had a haul truck and excavator). That being said if you got the time you could use a smaller machine but to keep things moving 700/D6 is the smallest I would go. My 650K has been a very reliable tractor. Just oil changes and normal maintenance. Size vs resale is a trade off. So is just renting a bigger machine to get things roughed in and finish with your smaller machine. Or brining in a sub contractor to handle the bulk of it. Lots of unique factors to your situation for a one size fits all solution. For me, I called in the cavalry. I was really busy at the time subcontracting for the railroad, a local contractor had the dozers and I wanted to make some progress. For me it was the right call. What I paid him took me out of buying, maintaining, risk of a big repair and time trying to resell a bigger dozer. What I owed him I could have easily lost in any one of the above situations. It's all a gamble and for me time is money at the end of the day.
I have no experience with Komatsu but can speak to the Cat and JD (J series). A Cat D6K2 XL looks to be a very close match to the D5N XL in specs. The obvious difference is the hydrostatic drivetrain. I put 10k hours on a D6K2 XL in 5 years time and found it a very capable, reliable machine. Excellent for grading and capable of small bulk earthmoving projects as well. It's small enough to be very nimble and can work in soft and wet areas if common sense is used. Visibility is great in every direction except directly over the nose. It does need a ripper, winch, or counterweight on the back to reach is full potential as it tends to be nose heavy if bareback. The one I ran was a pre DEF model with the 6.6 liter engine. I've also ran a later model with the 4.4 liter engine that required DEF and it was equally capable. The only problems I recall was a broken ground wire where a wiring harness made a sharp bend at a clamp and an EGR cooler (I believe) leaking coolant. I got into the D6K2 after running a JD 650J XL and wouldn't want anything smaller for what you describe. I don't know what changes JD made between the J and K series but our 650J was pretty well worn out at 8k hours. The blade has been reskinned at around 5-6k hours and it was leaking hydraulic oil into the final drives. It seems to me there was some issues with the electronic transmission control as well but can't remember specifics. Both machines ran in the same conditions, same operator, with the smaller JD obviously less capable then the larger Cat. I preferred the D6K2 over the 650 in every way even when working in very tight areas such as final grading around buildings, trees, and curbs.
First off I'm a Cat guy however not a fan of the K series. As AMB said they need something on the rear as they are nose heavy. I would go with the larger machine. If the D5 you are looking at is an LGP it's a Wide Load machine which isn't much of an issue in AL, just get the yearly permit. Currently running a D5GXL and D3 Next Gen LGP. The D3 is a wide load on our tag since there is no way to maneuver it on the trailer to get it narrow enough. We can shift the D5G on the trailer and make it work. Next dozer I buy will be a D4 which is the old D6K. Need a bigger tractor than the D3 and we can still haul a D4 on our tag.
I've gotten a stuck D375 Komatsu unstuck with a D5 all alone. And never had a D8 that was difficult to unstuck, and very few times needing another machine to do so, we have lots of wet in this area. So don't worry about it.
Thanks guys. Reaffirmed what i was thinking on going bigger.
I can talk a bit about the Komatsu Dozers - The guy trying to sell the JD is commenting that the Komatsu HST and Work Equipment use the same oil D37/39,51,61,71 - The D65/85 is Torque Converter/Traditional Transmission with HST steering. He is referring to a worst-case scenario where contamination from catastrophically failed components can cause a larger problem than machines that are propelled differently. It's true, but also unlikely. There are some fantastic benefits from the Komatsu HST Dozer - moving the cooling package to the rear will help stabilize the machine and the visibility is great. You can opt for a PX - wider track, to help with the mucky areas. You can access the Service Screen (4+1,2,3) - no need for a laptop or special service connection tools. All blades on -23+ HST Dozers are going to be Pitch angle tilt. Engines are all Cummins applications - proven to be a good product. The <D51's do not have a DPF, only DOC/SCR. Tractor and Equipment would be your service dealer in AL - great group of guys I have dealt with in Birmingham anyway. Resale on these machines is fantastic - think of them like a Toyota of the CE world. Tech is a bit outdated, but if you don't need 3D Machine Guidance - no big deal. Best of luck on your purchase - If you can get oil sample analysis data before buying, I highly suggest it.
You haven't said what size your pond is intended to be, or how many yards you intend to move to make it. The D5 (K or K2) will have 2.9yd blade (in XL) or a 3.1 yd blade (in LGP) vs the 3.4 yds of the N series. One obviously gets more weight and HP with the N series so you will definitely get more productivity. Would the D5k be capable of pushing out the same pond that the 5N? Yes, it will just take a bit more time. My D5k surprises me at how damn productive it can be when pushing dirt for short distances (<300'). Especially for a finish (non-production) dozer. The hi-stat makes them incredibly efficient pushers, especially if one is turning during the push. Where I think that the 5N would really outshine the 5k, is in rougher, rockier conditions. The 5k is a solid mounted track frame design, and the high track 5N will have pivoting track frames and an equalizer bar like larger dozers. This is more of a comfort thing then anything, but that matters to me when I'm dozing all day long. Certainly the 5N, or 6k will push more dirt in a day than a 5k. Whether, or not the bigger machine is worth the bigger investment is determined by the quantity of dirt to be moved. But if all-out production is you goal, a 6H, 6R or 6T, (true production dozers) would be MUCH better than any of the units you are consodering so far. Hell, even an old 8K or 7K would blow the doors off of a newer 5N or 6K, and likely be much cheaper to boot! As it relates to ease of resale when done, that's a bit of a crap-shoot. If your using ease of re-sale as a determining factor, I might suggest calling your local Deere and Cat dealer's salesman to ask which unit he thinks will be easier to move.
It's about 10 acres, but it's not all dozer work. Most will be moved with a tractor and pan. But some soft areas will be pushed with the dozer. I tried a D5K2 Tuesday. Compared to the D5N, the ride is a little rougher. It did operate smoother. And the hydrostatic drive was nice. But it was quickly apparent that I needed a bigger dozer. Settled on a John Deere 700K. Feel as though a 750 may be better, but getting into more $$$$. And harder to recover if I get it stuck. So my new to me 700K is scheduled to arrive today. Thanks for all your input.