Hey everyone I would really appreciate some insight on this subject. Here is my dilemma. We are building a new horse farm and have found a 60 acre piece of land that is perfect in size and location but when i took an excavator to it today to see what was underneath i found that over the whole property there was an average of about 3 feet of cover over shale type bedrock. and in some areas as little as 12 inches. We do not plan on tilling the land we would basically be building an indoor riding arena, an outdoor riding arena and a house and a barn. the land is mostly brush and cedars which we would be clearing a large portion of to create pasture for the horses and room to build the barns and arenas. basically i'm trying to decide if it would be worth moving forward or should we find property with more cover. I know for the buildings it is good that they would be sitting on bedrock but how would this affect the cost of a septic system. Basically i'm looking for the pros and cons of a property like this so i can make a more informed decision before i pull the trigger on this thing. The soil is a mixture of rich topsoil and a mixture of stone and clay and the land is high and dry. Thanks
welllllllllllll, my question is: just how many horses do you expect to feed on this place?, I think eventually not very many horses will worry the brush away and you'll end up with putting greens anyway!
We will be feeding the horses hay for the most part and are not overly concerned with grazing potential as these are high performance horses and will not be living outside off the land. my main concern is how the shallow bedrock will affect the cost of building. the facility is more of a boarding and training facility then a breeding facility where we would have horses living outdoors 24/7 cause most of the horses we get are imported from europe. you are right however as the they will pick it clean fairly quickly. but we hope to avoid that by having only 1 or 2 horses in each paddock and rotating paddocks.
Have you looked into where and how you will get your water? Everything else is do-able one way or another.
hi and dry is alot better than flooded when your talking high end horses. Having to move animals when they are stressed due to flooding isnt fun. I'd probably lay out all the buildings first and blast the entire area, then crush the rock for use as on site building material, or sell the material.
yes i spoke with some of the surrounding neighbours and they all have very good water coming out of an aquifer in the bedrock
The riding arenas could be tricky where the rock is shallow, especially if there are high spots in the rock. My short experience with arenas in the rockies was outcrops always poke through no matter what you do, save a powder man. Problems like this make me appreciate living in a river valley. I don't know what rock is and water is at 10' until i go up in the hills. The ones made out of limestone that outlived the glaciers. ointhead
i'd try not to disturb the existing dirt much. over the ensuing yrs. you can haul more in..............and the horses and smashed hay if you're feeding 'outside' will add to the soil cover, in fact, put everything out there, even the kitchen compost!
Hi thanks for replying guys. I do like the idea of blasting where needed and may look into that as an option. As far as high and dry i will take this and all the complications of shallow bedrock over where we are now which is a swamp and the pasture is really only good for 3 months in summer and when its frozen if we are lucky. As far as soil when i am clearing it i am going to try to disturb as little soil as possible (any ideas)? Also i am going to talk to the guys in this area and let them know i will be accepting fill so hopefully if i talk to enough of them i can get my grubby hands on lots of fill as there is quite a lot of development going on in the surrounding area. I am going to do all of the clearing and dirt work myself to save cost and hopefully will get it all done by fall of next year using a 150 sized excavator with root rake and either a tracked bobcat or a small dozer although i tend to think the bobcat is more versatile and i can continue to use it on the farm as a site machine when i'm done and hopefully put both machines to work after all is said and done. I was planning to burn everything but i was on a site the other day they cleared 20 acres and had a big vermeer grinder going and i think to give some more soil cover the grindings could be usefull. anyways as soon as all this gets going i will be takings lots of pics and vids and will finally be able to contribute to this page with some visuals. thanks for your input guys and i apologize if there are spelling errors as i just had eye surgery yesterday and my distance is 20/20 but my close visions rough lol
Sounds like a fun project, excav8r. Looking forward to the pics!
yessir i already bought a new camera for it but won't be doing much until spring so stay tuned
Will you need to put up any fence post were there is less than 3 feet of cover? Or is the rock shale enough to rip with your excavator to get enough depth. Just something else to think about.
I was on a job that was mostly rock... now the get it done nows.. wanted buildings up and fast. Now comes the time for the septic system... they haul a track drill and compressor into the job.. They barely had the thing off the lowboy.. What ya doin' boys.. We are going to drill and blast for the septic system.. "NO" .. The drill set for about two weeks... The lowboy shows uo with a vermeer trencher.. the tanks were the hardest to trench... probably an area 30' x 40' as deep as the trencher would dig... the backhoe moves in, cleans the spoils and ramps both ends. Trencher turn.. they trench about a 10 x 20 hole. Backhoe cleans it out, then it is graded and the two tanks are set. the lateral fields also trenched
If you go w/ the ctl. get a high hp, hi flow model then you can go to cat and rent a mulcher head for $800.00 a day, and mow it all down with that. Head was rated at 8" minus. And thats Pa prices. If you get more fill than a ctl can handle, make those dumping bring a dozer over. There was a thread on here oh ages ago, cm1985 or the tiger guy that runs a landfill in s.c. I think started it, but it outlined how they handled an inert materials dump site. What I remember is that everyone had to post a $100 bond to dump there, and there was a $5 per load fee, and If you brought junk in, you were charged the disposal fees and the 2x time you lost your privilage to dump and your bond. It was awile ago and my numbers might be off but it wasn't just a fill wanted sign in the yard.
Not sure what Ontario is like for new septic systems. In B.C. a system for a house could be 30-$40,000. Water and septic issues can be very costly.
Yeah we will be putting up close to 8000 feet of post and rail fencing. I'm pretty sure i will be able to scratch off enough rock to get my required 4 ft depth as the top layer is fairly loose and i was able to break it up a bit with a 3 ton mini. I think it will be a bit more work but hopefully the fence will never heave as it will be sitting right on solid rock. As far as my CTL goes i'm looking at nothing less than a bobcat t190 which has the high flow but will try to go as big as my budget will allow just cannot decide if i want to go cat or bobcat. The mulcher is something i am seriously looking into as it is a lot of brush clearing and small cedars i would try to leave as many of the mature big trees anyways so i think it would be great because i would like to try and not disturb to much soil but i will probably end up smoothing out the land and it is rolling land but very bumpy so it would be nice to smooth out the hills a bit. As far as septic systems go they are fairly expensive here but i think i could reduce the costs a bit by doing the installation myself as i have done a few septics.
What part of Ontario are you located. I know in eastern Ont you have to have a septic system design approved by the eastern Ontario heath unit before you can get a building permit for a house. So you could get a quote on a system before you build to see how much the system will cost. You would just have to pay for the design.
yeah that was the plan to get the design and then go from there. I live in kemptville right now but the property is in merrickville. Is this Pat or Frank? I saw your equipment list so i looked at your old posts and recognized your equipment and lancaster lol. Its Steve Mikeys buddy.Small world eh?
Its Pat. That crazy I never thought I would run into someone I know on here.
yeah it is pretty crazy How are ya liking the new shop??
That sounds like great fun! However the thing you should look into for a septic feid is called a mound system, that is what we typicaly install when we have a high water table or a impermiable layer. I am not sure if your regulations will allow it but you should have a perkulation test done first to determine the expence of a septic feild. Everything else sounds like it wouldn't be a problem Good luck
yessir thanks a lot. As far as septics go i've only installed a few of them and have never had any design experience so i'm going to have to get someone in for that. What needs to be done for a perculation test? I have a feeling the type of rock we are on will allow water to run through pretty good though as we were there after a very heavy rainfall digging test holes and even in the valleys the there was no water on the ground and the soil was still fairly dry
It depends who does it and how. They used to drill holes and just pour water in them to see how much the ground would except in a hour and then calculate the dose rates from that. Our regulations have reecently changed, now you have to be certified to design a system aswell as install them. I am a installer and dont have the time to test and design so i hire a guy that digs a test pit and collects soil samples as he goes down. The samples are then lab tested inorder to gain a better understanding of the soil and the loading rates and the bio mat that will be formed inorder to treat the water. I have found it is a huge headache to design a system if you dont do it often.
yeah sounds like it is definatly worth paying someone to all the designing and i will just build it
lol i didnt even get into desingning the tank,the spray holes,deliniators,microbial cells,hole spacing,lamener flow,pump sise....
Like i say some things are best done by people who know. I for one do not know so... I pay lol
Steve You could give Moose Creek Cement a call. They have a guy that designs system he could answer your questions concerning the bed rock. If you call ask for Pete. If you want I could get the number for you.
Yeah pat that would be great if ya don't mind
Sent you a PM