I am looking for a 12 to 13 ton excavator with under 4000 hrs on it around $50,000. What I have found is a 91' Hitachi EX100 2800 hrs for 35K with a extend a hoe, Cat's 311 and 312, years ranging from 96' to 02' price from 43k to 75k and varius hours. I am leaning towards a Hitachi (have one now and like it very much), anybody have the cat 311 (gray market but can get parts from Milton Cat) or 312? Any opions would help a lot. I plan on renting the machine for the first 30 days and then put rental towards purchase. These are listed on Equipment trader thru Beck Equipment in Preble NY. Thanks.
Heres a 2002 CAT 312 w/ 2300hr.s for $72,500 http://catused.cat.com/en/Equipment/CATERPILLAR/SMALL-TRACK-EXCAVATORS/312cl/586264/More-Photos.aspx got this off of www.catused.com
IMO the Hitachi’s are a better machine in general, but I haven't spent very much time on 312 several hrs on a 320 through. That seat looks a little rough for only 2300hrs.
Jasak, Thanks for the link, nice machine but would like to stay around 50k. If I was going to spend 70k that machine would be one that I would look at. The dealer is http://www.beckequipment.com/ that I would like to use, have a history with them and they will rent the machine to use and then put rental towards purchase. Take a look at the web site and see if you see anything that looks good. Dozer, same as you I would like to buy a Hitachi, If you don't mind, look at the Beck site see you see any possibilties. Thank you both for the help.
I know your after a smaller machine but the 160 Deere would probably be my choice. The EX100 I wouldn't get involved in that extended boom isn't what you want to deal with. Also the one track looks like its sagging a little too much its hard to tell with the pictures but it may need work. That Beck dealer doesn't have enough choices for the size of machines your after. Keep searching if you have to buy a machine out of state do it because you may find a good deal.
Ford, what does a deere 160 weigh? About 28k or 32K remember I have to pull it with my Mack.
Ford, Deere 160 is 32k pounds "ok" for my truck to tow but every one for sale is at least 80k to over 100K $. My local Deere/Hitachi dealer has a 2005 EX160 w/ 2000k hours for 95k. Took for a test drive, did some digging with and wow!! real nice but my payment would $1500 to $1800 per month depending on how much I put down. Ok in the summer not so good in the winter. Hard to find for 50K! with out 7000 hours on it. If you come across one let me know, it can be older machine, just not beat to crap.
truck is a tandem no?,should be just fine. however,how big is your trailer? the 160 would require a 20 ton tag along. the 12 ton machines are just as good as a 160 honestly in my opinion.
I have a 12 ton tag trailer, over weight with a 160 but truck is 55k gvw tandem, so truck would be fine. Just purchased the trailer new last year.
A 160 isn't 32K, they're about 35K pounds. And a 120 is about 29K pounds, so you'd need something bigger than your 12 ton trailer.
Cascade how much does a 311 or 312 weigh, I think about 26k to 28k pounds. I think that I could use my trailer for the short term, I don't move stuff every day so for 6 months or so I could get by, then next summer upgrade trailer. Don't you have a 312?. What do you think, I think yours is new or close to it.
You do need a 20 ton trailer to move a 160 sized machine we have done them with a 12 ton tilt but its too risky. Your truck should handle the weight just fine might be a little slow pulling the hills. As for the machine you buy what ever you can afford especially if your just testing the water for the excavation biz.
Thanks Ford, not really testing the waters at this point, the jobs I have been getting are just getting bigger and bigger so I do need the bigger machine to stay profitable, and competitive. Bigger machine, bigger jobs. My problem is that in the last 2-3 years I have bought Mack tandem dump truck, 2001 JD450HLT dozer, 06' F350 pick up truck, new 12 ton trailer, EX60-3 excavator, 97' BoB Cat 331, 2002 New Holland LS160,Case 690 70" single drum roller, buckets, attachments, etc.etc. So I am way past testing the excavating buisness. I don't want to get my self into a cash flow problem. The biggest machine I can get for around 50k and that will move alot more dirt than the EX60 and not cost me 10 to 20k to fix it up is what I am looking for. Need to increase my truck loading time, my reach, and speed a lot over what I have been doing with the EX60 (8 ton) machine. Trying to sell the Bob Cat 331, never use it any more.
What about renting or leasing a 120 sized machine for now and see if the size is right for your needs. A EX-60 machine is a little on the small side for doing larger jobs as you are finding out a 12 ton machine will be a little better but not as good as a 150 sized machine. For us out here on the West Coast a 150-160 size machine works the best because you can do the larger jobs and the machine is still easy to move around aka no need for a lowbed. You know how much your finances can handle :thumbsup
A 312CL weighs about 29K I believe. A standard undercarriage weighs a couple thousand pounds less I believe. Actually, my old man sold the 312 today. He decided about a month ago to get out, he felt like he was in over his head when I'm away at school. I handled things just fine this summer, but he didn't think he could do it all himself when I'm gone. So, he turned the machine, we broke even, learned a lesson while we were at it, and I had a little fun along the way.
If you could find a 160 sized machine you should go for it. I run a 160 hyundai, and sometimes a 140 hyundai, and the difference between the 2 is like night and day. You can move twice as much material in the same amount of time, i can litterally load a truck twice as fast (takes ~2 minutes for a 15-16 ton load), it can pick a lot more weight, and with the extra weight it is so much smoother and solid. I dont know what kind of work you do but if you keep growing and start doing jobs where you need use a trench box, set manholes you wishing you had went with the bigger machine I think our 160 with a blade weighs in at around 42K, so its a heavy bitch, we pull it on a 20 ton tag trailer, its not legal but for the most part we just move it around our small town, if we need to go farther we borrow a bigger trailer or have it moved.
Maybe something like a little older komatsu pc150 or JD 590 would be ok. It seems like the cheaper newer machines are usually kind of beat while sometimes you can find cheaper older equipment that is still in good shape might be a little far away http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...5419552&guid=F253FBAFE6984DF29CD5B5EB47B67EC7 Is beacon NY near you. There are no pics but maybe if its close... http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...5595514&guid=F253FBAFE6984DF29CD5B5EB47B67EC7
I was going to suggest the same thing. Guy I am subbing for bought a Kamatsu pc150 nice machine. Older but in nice shape. Does everything he needs it to do then some. He paid 40k.
Mike J, the Komatsu looks good, any news on them, never sat in one. At what point on the hour meter do you have to start doing repairs? (4k-5k). I have been told that the Deere/Hitachi/Cat have an average of 7000k in them before major repairs. Depending on the maintenance done and that being equal on all makes. Tyler that is what is happening to me, water lines, sewers, catch basins, jobs that I have to move 3000 to 4000 yards of fill and dig 9' down. Believe it or not I have been doing this with my EX60 and rentals, the guys laugh at me but I get it done. My trucking is a lot more and time invested is a lot more, so this is my problem. The longer the truck sits while you load them at $75 per hour adds up fast, I use my truck and hire a truck so I keep two moving but just not fast enough. You would laugh if you could see me moving catch basins around with my machine, moved a 6' x6' round water basin last summer and had to drag it into place, not the best way. I had a contract sent to me this summer for a new Drug store that had clause in it for a $1000 a day fine if you do not move fast enough for the GC, needless to say I passed on that job. Back to same old problem, you need the equipment to do the work and you need the work to own the equipment. The 160 size looks to be the answer, I wonder how long I can get away with my 12 ton trailer? Another 10k for new trailer.
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...5540070&guid=1AD1E018B76540F988F7567FE938859F something like that would would do you good.
Your missing out if you haven't had a chance to run a Komatsu. They make a very nice machine. We rented a pc 120 to do the foundation on a recent job and it would throw the dirt out of the hole. It only burned about a gallon an hour too. Reliability is going to be similar to the other big brands if it was maintained properly.
hitachi i wouldn't buy an older komatsu they had some problems, the new ones are the best i have a few in my fleet and you can't beat them, thats what all the demo guys buy and if they don't destroy them no one can. i've found a few hitachi 160s on machinery trader for about 50,000 with 4,500 hrs on. hitachis a good machine to.
tyler nice find that machine is 20 min from me I will stop by this week to check it out. When you say older, how older? the 97' tyler posted looks good and it is located very close to me. What pattern does a Komatsu have Deere or Cat? Any one have one of these Komatsu pc150? 45k is priced in a ball park that I can handle. I would like to buy a machine in my local area. Bought my Case roller from Ohio, my Mack Truck from Kentucky so I will fly to the location to check out a machine but shipping, airline tickets and time all add to the cost. How much is PC150, 32 to 33K pounds?
hitachi older than 97 was a bad model. alot of people had trouble with them, the newer ones are nice but the ones that were about 15 years old arent the best.
i've had no problems with any komatsu dash 5's i've ever ran,the dash 3's on the other hand might have though i'm not experienced with them.
jmac a 98 CAT 315 w/ 3500hr.s for $50K is fs near me pm me if interested.
Dash 5 Komatsus are solid, it's the dash 2's and 3's that I'd be leary of. The machine Tyler posted is a dash 6, those are excellent machines. I know a guy that has a '98 PC200-6 with 9,500 hours still going strong. All he's had to do to it is undercarriage work as his main source of income for the last few years was orchard removals and that's a lot of walking. The weight of a 150-160 machine should be around 34-35K.
How do you figure? You've got more power, Bigger pumps, longer reach, more lifting cap, and your bucket is bigger to move more material... I dont think they are just as good.. I learnt on a Cat 312CL and now Im running a Volvo EC160B and theres no way that 312 is just as good. not a chance it could even come close to any 150/160 size machine. Jmac, I would suggest looking in to a 160. We have a EC160, and EC210 and the 160 can keep up to the 210. they are very quick machines, but very smooth as well. It has blown us away profromance wise.. and because of the shorter boom and stick then the 210 it has almost the same lifting cap as the 210 does. some of the boulders I have picked up with it has been amazing. the same rock that the 210 struggled with. Our 160 is probly around 18 - 19 tons with all the extras... rock gaurds, Cage, cat walks, thumb....and we hual it behind a tandem gravel truck on a 20 ton trailer.. anything less and thats a chance not worth taking...
Thanks for all post's ,I checked with my trailer dealer and he will take my almost new trailer in on trade for a 20 ton tag. I could wait till spring now that I just added $10k on the deal for a new trailer. If I get the trailer that will take away any reason not to go with the 160 size machine, the Komatsu pc150 that tyler posted is perfect. Tore up a parking lot this week that was 30,000 sq feet, the asphalt in some places was 12" thick. Did this with my little machine and thumb. Loaded out 60 trucks so far, kept thinking how nice, and faster it would be with a bigger machine! I have to admit the Hitachi kept going strong, very impressed with it for it's size.
Thats a big job almost too painfull to do with a EX-60 If you can find a 20 ton tag trailer you don't need a brandnew one even if you find a trailer that is couple years old. I think once you have gone to a 150-160 sized machine you won't go back to a smaller one.
Thats the truth, i used to run 120-140's and thought they were a perfect size machine because they can get about anywhere and if you know what you are doing you can still sling alot of dirt. That was untill i started running our 160, I can litterally work twice as fast with it. And i can still take it anywhere i can take a 120.
160 is the perfect size. lots of power, small size. 120-140 is too small, 200 is just about to big for alot of sub work and even land clearing it can be to big. its amazing how many places I can go that the 210 cant. being 10 ft wide its really a pain.. Im glad im only 8'6. 200's have there purpose tho and are also a really good machine. we have contractors that have it in their head they need to bring in a 300+ plus size machine to clear land. well when dealing with brush, and logs, there is no need to spend the extra money an hour on such a big machine. the 160 can do it in the same time. inless your bailing material all day thoses machines are no better and really just a waste of money. that being said you will need a faller if the trees get to a certain size and around here we can have some pretty big trees. 160's never use to be to popular around here.. but recently they have popped up all over. brand new 160's everywhere.
One of the main reasons the 160 size machine is popular is you don't need a lowbed to move it big plus. The contractor can have a tag trailer and move the machine any time they please. It saves money and time because buying a tractor and lowbed is big money and to hire a outside contractor to move your machine takes time. A 300-400 size machine is like a bull in a china shop you will make a mess way before anything else. Almost 90% of the jobs in this area the homeowner wants areas kept natural. The road into the site is kept narrow as possible less disturbance the road is just large enough to get a redimix truck through the trees. Some driveways are up to 1/2 a kilometer long. Most range from 40 feet to 1000 or little longer. A 200 size machine is MAX you want to have on a residential site even most commercial sites don't have anything bigger than a 200 its not needed. If its a large project usually the contractor will have 2 160 or 200 sized machines working on it. One thing about a 160 sized machine is you can go to a site dig the basement in couple hours and head off to another job for the rest of the day. What started the smaller machines in this area is when Hitachi started producing the EX-150 it was a popular machine. Now that manufacturers are building a slightly heavier machine a 160 they are even more popular because they have a little more power and weight but still able to move the machine on a tag trailer behind a tandem axle dump.
The parking lot is finished, went alot quicker after I had a dozer at the site to push the piles up. The contractor that I was subbing for had his New Holland 160 for about 4 hours today at the site. All the asphalt was tore up but still had to load out material. I parked my machine for the afternoon and bailded out the material with his. No thump but the bucket was a 42" very fast! Kept two of his trucks and my truck moving all day. Then 160's swing motor went and back to my machine for the last 4 trucks. Total trucks was around 100 hauled away. With the 160 I could see into the back of the truck from the cab, real nice. Bigger machine for me for sure. I had an offer on my 97' Bob Cat 331 with 2300 hours on it for $16k today, I think I am going to take it, the offer is about $1500 to low but that 16k will go towards the bigger machine. Now the trailer. This buisness is cost to much!:yup
a company i sometimes work for has a 160,120 and a 200 i must admit the 160 is a nice machine but if your doing work in an area already developed i can't fit the 160 in there for say a septic reinstall. now the 120 will go just fine thats why i stated the 120 would have been a better machine for him since with the the 6 ton machine sounded like he might do more confined excavating but if he can swing the 160 i say go for it.
He has the EX-60 for the confined jobs and look for a 160 for the bigger jobs. If he wants to the larger jobs a 160 is the smallest he would want to go. A 160 can do what a 200 can but it just takes a little longer. There jobs here were your clearing lots of trees and I mean tree's not pencil sticks and what gets used is a 160. jmac is just going to be searching carefully for a good used machine get in a hurry and he may end up with a POS.
with a 160 sized excavator, you loaded 100- 10/12 yd sized trucks in a days time? you're awesome dude, that's borderline unbelievable. 100 trucks on an 10 hr. day, = 10 trucks per hr..... that's 120 yds. per hr. with a 160 sized machine, i'm not saying it can't be done, but dude. that's a VERY impressive production rate.
The way I read it the 100 loads was total for the job, not just in one day. But yeah that would be movin' some material!:yup
Dayco, I wish in one day! Took me a week!. About 50 hours to rip up pile and load out. I don't think a 250 size machine could of ripped up 30,000 sq ft of 12" asphalt and loaded in one day. Sometimes two trucks, sometimes one, and three trucks when I was useing a 160 size machine. Trucks are 18 yrd tri trucks except for mine is 16 yrd truck. With a 160 my time would of been about half or less compared to my EX-60. Ford, yup no POS if I can help it. Going to take some shopping for $50k. And a used trailer would be best. I plan on keeping the EX-60 but I hope that I don't need the Bob Cat 331 some day, I would have to rent one if I need it, if I sell mine. I wish I could keep both but between the EX-60 and the 331 the 331 goes.
With truck enough truck power and material to load out loading 100 trucks in a day wouldnt be all that hard, takes me 2 minutes to load a truck with our 160. Ive loaded out ~50 loads in half a day running 2 trucks on a short haul.
With broken up asphalt it doesn't take much to fill up a 12 yard box especially if its large chunks. With busted up pavement you have to carefully load the truck so it doesn't jam up when the driver dumps the load. Trying to load a truck with a EX-60 must be a little tough being the machine probably just reaches the top of the box. You guys on the east coast run short and tall sided dump boxes its got to be tougher to load. Here where I'am we run 16'6" boxes they have lower sides its easier to see what your doing.
an average day for loading trucks for me is 90+ 8-9 hours 160 sized machine, and stripping the soil as you go. yeah you dont have a break and you barley get to breathe. Altho our machine has a 60'' clean up bucket. its actuly the same bucket as our 200. Ford LT where abouts in BC are you? Murray83 the 120 and 160 are both 8'6'' wide. You should be able to swing a 160 around anywhere a 120 will swing.. I learnt on a 120 and the 160 will go any where the 120 will 160's reach is 29'8'' ft 120's reach is 27'10
Remember that on this job you had to pull up and break 12" asphalt, pile it up and keep pilling up the material as you loaded it out. When loading it out you had to make sure the chunks would come out of the truck when dumping, had a chunk get stuck in my gate and hold he whole load back on one trip that I was driving, not fun. Also for the first couple of day I ran excavator and dump truck myself, load truck, drive truck, load truck, drive truck etc. I could see 90 trucks in a day if the dump trucks are lined up, the excavator don't move very far, sits in one place, and the material is loose fill no chunks. The dumps trucks are below the excavator so you can see into the box.
I'am on the Sunshine Coast and no not Australia :bouncegri Our boom has cut right back over here the people with the 1 million dollar pocket change has dissapeared. The excavation contractors are not that busy now. The developers are getting too greedy asking upto 2 million dollars for a uncleared lot.
If you RE-read what I had said it was... Stripping the material as we go. so there is no pile, and you arnt sitting up higher then the truck, you are the same level as the truck. yeah the trucks are lined up, usualy between 7 - 9 trucks. and there is only ever two on the job at one time. and certainly dont sit in one area. Im moving over an area about the size of a football field. the material we are stripping goes down to hard pan, so its usualy a layer of topsoil, then a layer of dirt with no particular nutrients for growing. If I was sitting on top of a pile the loads per day would be over 200 given that the trucks keep coming and you dont stop. Ford LT, the boom here has leveled off, the big jobs still going, nothing new. Lucky that we got in to the enviromental deal... any operator would love this work. and the government pays for it.. I like when we move one pile of contamenated material about 7 times before they decide thats where it needs to go.. politics and machines dont make for a good combo. but its all steady work, and if the paychecks keep coming I dont care what I have to move.. but its great to, its all soily type materials. even clay.. never rock. you might wanna get yourself in to that.. sure is easy on the machines :bouncegri a bit of a brain fart but it is afterall 2:00 Am and I have a head aches and just got off from a 15 hour shift... little burnt out, but where is the sun shine coast, the island or the mainland?
MVFD, wouldn't loading stripped topsoil or fill be alot faster than pulling up asphalt and breaking large chunks up so it will first fit in the bucket and secound come out of the dump trunk when they dump? I did load and strip material at the same but took more time than filling a bucket with dirt and slinging it into the dump truck. If I slung large chunks of asphalt into the dump trunk the dump would have had some very large dents in it, I had to place the asphalt into the bottom at first and then I could dump after the bottom was covered. John
Yes, and I wasnt saying that it had anything to do with material.. of corse its faster, you could let the bucket go from 7 ft above the box and nothing would happen to the truck. Clearly it would take longer ripping asphalt up, then loading it.. and I dont recall ever saying it wouldnt be longer I was more commenting on your last post about the machine sitting in one place and being above the trucks.
The Sunshine Coast is from Lund to Port Mellon its a long stretch of coast. The enviromental jobs are easy money but the jobs where you have to clean up a old gas station that had leaky tanks. Those fumes are horrendous I know one contractor that did a gas station clean up said you could take a full bottle of Tylenol and never get rid of the head ache you get from the smell. Oh ya that site is still vacant after almost 12 years I don't know if the land will be ever used again.
Yeah lucky us, we dont do those type of jobs... but I can only imagine
There was a job in Powell River where they had to ship out contaminated soil back to Vancouver it was truck load after truck load thats expensive. Trucks used were Tridrives with quad axle transfer trailers they were maxed out at 140,000lbs each truck. Loading any kind of rip rap you want to take it easy on the dump box or you may end up with a hole through the side of the box :nono If you don't have a thumb on the excavator it makes it even tougher to load it would be almost impossible to load.
I loaded 60 tandem loads 15cy body with out a thumb with my 160 and most of the stuff was24"+ - 48" + - with out a thumb and did not do any damage to the trucks and i loaded them like icecream cones. Loading any kind of rip rap you want to take it easy on the dump box or you may end up with a hole through the side of the box :nono If you don't have a thumb on the excavator it makes it even tougher to load it would be almost impossible to load.[/QUOTE]
Its not like it takes any longer to bring the bucket down the extra 5 feet and gently drop the stuff in the truck box. Ive stuffed everything from concrete rubble to scrap steel in dumptrucks and never had stuff get hung up. Well, ive had brush get stuck but thats different.
I know a contractor that does a LOT of work at a refinery a few miles from my town. you want to talk about contaminated ground. He is one of those do it now ask questions later kind of guys and there is no shipping off of contaminated soil:thumbsup I was doing some work in a development that he developed last summer and one of the other operators we had kept wondering why the ground smeeled lke the ground ground at gas station with leaking tanks, i guess he hauled a lot of fill in.
Pavement isn't so bad but blasted rock is really tough on a box that sharp edges and points on blasted granite will put a decent dent into a box side. The guys with aluminum boxes need plywood liners or a steel liner. Most gravel trucks here have highlift tailgages so its no so bad but a truck with a regular tailgate you have to watch the way you load. In this area broken up asphalt is classed as dangerous goods so its a pain to get rid of. There are companies but not in this area that take the old asphalt and grind it up and reuse it. The oil in the asphalt makes it classed as a DG you don't need paper work to haul it but you really are not supposed to bury it. If it gets ground up it gets mixed with new asphalt mix and re layed down again. Or the highways dept uses it they mix it with a binder and its good for cold patching.
loading out I would say the 160 is the best size machine for doing house lots. I've done deep sewer connections with my 315. But if i can i use the komatsu PC220 if a manholes going in on a deep line. On house lots around here you get a few clowns who wanna bring in a Cat 330 to dig a 25x25 foundation just so everyone sees that they have that big machine.
I don't know, it all comes down to preference. I can do just about anything with a 12 ton machine, the only added advantage of a 15-16 ton is the extra ponies and reach. I've run both and while I liked the extra horses and reach of a 15 ton I found that a 12 ton machine covers the bases pretty well.
i did enviromental work for 2 years.mostly oil tanks but we did some gas stations ... never really got headaches but working in a fuzz for the rest of the day was not fun...yes they are easy money but alot of sitting around then work crazy for a couple weeks then sit and wait for soil tests...still enjoyed the work...but i don't miss it... jmac how is the search going.....?
We dont really dig up oil tanks, or even gas stations.. its mostly where shops have been.. old rail yards.. we do alot of material thats full of peices of metal.. etc.. big jobs.. and we dont have much time off.. I really wish we had more time off..
The Komatasu 160 Tyler found I called on and it seems to be what I want. Over the weekend my swing motor on the ex60 finally went, it has been making noises all summer, wish I could of taken it apart earlier but had to use every day so no time until today. I spent all day today taking all the hoses off, lifting the motor out with fork lift and taking motor apart. The parts I need are: sleeve o-ring 3-bearings all oil seals lower housing retaining ring About $2000 worth, my local Hitachi dealer will have parts in two days even though machine is a gray market machine, not bad. I will spend a least another full day putting it back together. The $2000 sets me back a little towards the bigger machine. It always happens when you get ahead a little something happens to put you back a little. Two steps forward one step back, I hope. I agree with you Tyler, I hate it when I am at the pit and the loader just drops 6 yards of wet gravel into my truck from 3 feet above the batter boards and the whole thing comes down with a thud, all I ask is make the drop as close as possible, why beat the sh*t of the truck if it you don't have to, the truck gets beat enough by everyday use.
One of the loader guys at a pit near me will load you with 24"- that way, would hate to see what an aluminum box would look like after a week of hauling that crap.
When ever I was loading trucks I was carefull not to get crap spilling out of the bucket that usually ends up on the side of the box. I have had rocks slip out and bounce off the boards on the box. One job I was on I was in the truck the material sticky crap it would come out of the clean up bucket in a large mass. It drops into the box of the truck like a lead brick. Thats the way it goes in the excavating biz something breaks and it costs allot. Your lucky you can get parts for the machine but Hitachi is usually pretty good. In my area we have a reputable hydrualic rebuilder has a service man that visits the area they can rebuild and fix any kind of hydraulic parts. It doesn't matter if its a hydraulic motor,pump or cylinders they can do it. Spending 2000 bucks is hard on the wallet but if you got to do it you got no choice.
Yesterday 09:05 PM Exatly, what's my options, need the machine, cost more to replace it, so with heavy eqiupment you have to fix it. You also have to fix it quickly if the machine is a vital part of your day to day operations.
I will keep the group posted as we signed a purchase order for a 07 PC-200-8 yesterday. Our 95 EX 200-3 had the pumps go out last week and with 8500 hours of demolition operations we decided to upgrade to a new machine. One of the strongest points I had to buy the Komatsu was the fact Komatsu builds 100% of the machine, engine, pumps. motors, cylinders, etc. Compare that to Cat or Hitachi with there diferant makers of diferant componants. The Komatsu should be in our hands in 2 weeks after they guard it and thumb it. Also the price was pretty good at $156,000 for the machine, thumb and coupler.
Komatsu is really stepping up on the the quality of the machines. I know the dealer in B.C. is selling quite a few of them. About 3 weeks ago I drove south down to the next community I looked over at one of the jobsites and seen about 4 Komatsu excavators working on the site. Would I buy a Komatsu not too sure the 158 I ran was a little heavy on the fuel the sheet metal on the machine was a little cheap and a few other things really bugged me.
The newer Komatsus are a real improvement. I'd buy one. The dash 4's and 5's scare me, but anything newer than a dash 6 is a good machine. Guy I know around here is pushing 10,000 hours with '98 PC200-6 with only undercarriage work, a new turbo, and a set of injectors. I've never priced out a Hitachi, but how do new Hitachi's compare in price to Komatsu? About the same? A little more? I know they aren't less. Kobelco seems to be building some great machines as well, dealer support is almost nothing that I've seen out here though while Komatsu and Hitachi are fairly prevelant in WA state. Deere isn't much cheaper than Cat these days, that much I know for sure. Probably not more than 6-7% difference in price from what I can tell.
I was qouted $160,000 for a zx 200 lc from Pape in Fife. But you had to add another $4,000.00 to the Hitachi to have the gps location and remote or web based diagnostics added to it and it still isnt to the same level as the Komatsu Komtrax which does not require a seperate computer for diagnosis as I believe the Hitachi still requires for full diagnostics. How cool is this new technology, I can sit at my desk, log in to Komtrax, see my machine didnt start till 7:20am and call my operator on the 2 way and ask him why he had a late start? or what ever. Very cool. I can finally prove they let this stuff idle too long for no reason.
That is pretty cool. I've heard about those systems but only from third party manufacturers. Wawrecker, you need a weekend operator?
I think I found the machine; it is the one Tyler found, PC150LC-6 went and looked at it today. It had third valve and operator for quick coupler. Machine was at job site so no pre inspection tampering. Things I did to check it out, any other suggestions please post. 1) lifted both sides by bucket and checked track sag, no sag so I would hope seals are ok, spun track at fast speed no noises, sprockets look good. 2) Swung house back and forth, stopping at high speed and swinging back in other direction to check for noises. 3) Check fluid in swing motor, full, no leaks at final drive. Took a whiff of oil, no bunt smell 4) Swung house with full bucket and also leveled ground with bucket check for swing power and noises. 5) Check engine oil, full, no leaks. 6) All filters recent change, had date on filters done in the spring. 7) All gages work, air, heat etc work. 8) Sheet metal good, original paint. Some minor dents and dings underside of house. 9) Check SN with dealer to see if machine is gray market. 10) Pins no slop, tight, buckets have all the teeth look ok. 11) Doors, seat, windows, all work no broken glass except for mirror and one marker light. 12) Motor started cold, some blue smoke but cleared in under a minute. 13) Turbo spun freely, no noises. Any thing else I am missing besides doing an oil analysis?
It sounds like you checked everything you could the only thing is what kind of hours does the machine have and what year is the machine. If the undercarriage is good and the pins are tight etc I think you will do alright. One thing to look for is built up grease around the pins which is sign the machine was greased on a regular basis. If the grease looks dry and its hard then the machine hasn't been greased on a regular basis. Feel the bottom rollers if they have any flat spots feel the inside of the chain see if there is excessive wear. Last thing whats the price of the machine.
Ford, year is 97' hours or 4673, price is $44,500. Dealer is going to fix some small stuff, like rusted muffler, broken mirror and light etc. Clean and greese. Here is the link: http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...5540070&guid=1AD1E018B76540F988F7567FE938859F
The machine looks good it doesn't look likes its been abused. I would probably start looking for a quick connect system and hydraulic thumb piping and you will be ready to go. Its hard to find a machine that year that hasn't been beat the snot out of. One more step forward in the excavation business :thumbsup
Spend the money and have a Komatsu tech come out and pull fluid samples and read the on board computer to look at the history of trouble codes. I think that year they could show if and when it was overheated, low presure, etc. It might cost you $7-800 bucks but its cheap compared to the cost of the machine or repairs.
Machinery isnt much diferant than used cars, Its not hard to make a junker look like a cream puff. I was at a local equipment rental yard that specialized in Excavators only that sold off rental fleet after 4-6 years for very fair prices and always at or around 4100-4800 hours. I picked up some parts one day from there shop and while I was in the Service managers office I saw about 30+ hour meters on the shelf with a 12 volt battery. Draw your own conclusions, but if you think about it we all feel the same about a 4500hr machine as we do a 68,000 mile car. Lots of life left in it right? as oposed to 5800 hours or 88,000 miles. I dont know anything about your specific dealer, they may be great but ultimatly we are stuck with our decisions.
Very well said a I 2nd it, It is all about the money, If I could buy a new one I would, but I have to try and find the best machine for the money that I can afford to spend and roll the dice, done this on every piece so far, some bad choices and some good choices. A little luck along the way and I should be ok, hopefully more good choices than bad, but I have made my share of bad ones so far.
I am very grateful to be in a position to buy a new machine and truck this year. I am still kinda scratchin my head if new is the right decision given we only do demolition. Our first machine had 4200 hours on the "meter" when we bought it and now has 9,000 hours and looks like crap. I have put a operations manager on in the last year and he is tasked with managing the equipment so I am hoping the new rig is not trashed in 2 years. One thing to consider is the interest rate the factory offers on a new machine. Komatsu is offering 0% for 36 and 4% at 60months.
We got so used to the banks saying NO! evertime. We quit trying for awhile and just paid cash or used a leasing co. The lease guys make alot of money off of us. If finance is a factor spend the hour and talk to a local dealer about factory finace you may be surprised to find out that the "New" machine cost little more then a lease payment and they also offer skip payments for your slow season. I actually just did a lease for containers because if I bought anymore equipment this year we would start going backwards on the irs section 179 depreciation. we could have just paid for them but we need to keep the capitol.
The money part is the hardest, going to try my conventional bank for a 7 year commercial note at 1.5 over prime, this is the way I have done all the others notes so far. My bank could tell me that I have too much out with them and then I have to go to lease and loan broker guys. Don't want to do that. I wonder if Komatsu will finance used equipment even if I am buying it from dealer that is not a Komatsu dealer? I will call them Monday. I also wonder if other companies that financed me in the past i.e.: innersole rand, and New Holland with finance a different manufacturer but still carry the paper for the interest.
Check with Komatsu they might finance you on a new PC160 they are willing to deal. I know with Komatsu here they are treating customers pretty good they seem to be filling the gap where the other brands are leaving out.
I have been in business for around 25 years now and found banks would not loan me any money when I started. I got around that by building a savings account and useing as calateral for my loans when needed. They will loan you money for 1% over the interest on your savings. When I didn't need the money I would still take out a loan and put it back in the savings. Kind of a forced savings account. Now I have build enough credit to call the bank and have a check for 1/2 mil. waiting for me tomarrow if needed. Barrow money when you don't need it, put it in savings, that way it will be there when you do need it.
If you are working the equipment enough to justify a purchase and not continue renting I question a 7 year term on a 4500 hr machine. Get it paid for sooner so when the 8000hr+ crap starts hitting you arent makeing the payment plus repair bills, thats best case, worse is a payment on a dead machine!
actually, I like cat excavator than HITACHI & Komatsu excavator, from quality aspect, cat is the best. of course, hitachi and komatsu excavator also have his advantage,for example, it cost little fuel and so on. :beatsme