I'm building a ROPS for my dozer. I'm about 3/4ths done. I figured I'd post my progress so far. Pic 1: picked up the ROPS from the steel dealer* *(some assembly required) Pic 2: Lot's-o-gussets Pics 3 & 4: as far as I've gotton so far. I've to weld the plate to the roof, weld some grab handles in various locations, and add a guard for the stack(so it doesn't get knocked off), add some mounts/guards for forward/back lights, weld a piece of expanded metal in the open area behind my head, and paint er' up nice and shiny JD yellow. How does it look too you guys?
Won't be able to say until you roll er over... (Actually, why paint it yellow? There's something appealing about Black and Gold.)
Let's hope that doesn't happen. I'm thinking about trees/branches more than actually getting it upside down. The uprights are 3" (1/4" thick), so I hope they'll hold?!:beatsme It's built much heavier built than the factory cab on my Ford backhoe is.:yup Hmmm, I could do that. I didn't even think of it.
Very nice job Jeff. I think if you would have attached the sweeps to the hood it would have given the exhaust some protection. Be sure and take pictures if you do test it out.
So thats why you havent been on here wasting as much bandwith as usual.
It wastes much more bandwidth for everyone to view Jeff's posts than it does for him to actually post them. :yup
To the top? Yup, it would've completely covered it then.:thumbsup I should've done it that way. I'll weld a guard on the left sweep that'll deflect branches though. :bouncegri There's only so many hours in a day. I gotta get something done once in awhile.
Actually, reference bandwidth, Jeff's "Small used dozers" thread has the second most views (2781) on the whole forum. "Work Pics" is the leader by far,(14,000 and some) and "Lonely Friday" is third (2000 and something). So, actually, Jeff is probably using the most bandwidth, but he's inspired the largest discussion too. Another feather in his cap. :notworthy Back to ROPS discussion--no thread hijacking tonight... :thumbsup
FWIW Don't ever worry about that in a thread of mine. I don't care what anyone post in my threads. That's just me personally though, it's probobly not a good habit in general. I usually weld with 6011, but I was recommended to use 7018. It may be a stonger weld, but I really have too turn the heat up to get it to flow right, and it takes a jackhammer to get the slag off. With a 5/32 rod, reverse DC, I'm running it at 185 amps, and 6011 I can run about 125 amps. I know the rods dry, I just bought it, and it was vacuum sealed, so it's not a moisture problem. Anyone else had that experience with it(7018)? Maybe a bad batch? It's Lincoln rod, so I'd think it'd be quality? I was thinking about switching to 7024, but they only had it in 50lbs tins. It would be shot long before I used that much.
It's not that, it's just that it's Squizzy's job, and if he feels like abandoning us for a week and a half, I'm sure not gonna cover for him! :wink2
He did say that on his vacation he'd be going in search of "Hart-Parr" like pics to take, so it is (eventually) going to further the forum. That's if the Black Snakes don't get him while he's gone.:bouncegri
I bought myself some new work boots today, and a new pair of jeans, boy do i look snazzy, about as snazzy as that ol dozer
In my very limited experience I had to turn up the heat a little on 7018 also. It was harder to get the arc to start, but it was pretty when it was done. The 6011 was easier to start and didn't drip as bad when doing vertical beads, but didn't look as nice. But I'm also a very novice welder so... It looks good. :notworthy How much weight will it add to the dozer? Now just run down to the glass shop and close it in for the winter - along with HVAC too of course...:thumbsup And I think digger's right (damn, did I say that out loud?) I remember seeing the ROPS on most of the small JD's painted black.
It doesn't matter whether you said it out loud--you were thinking it. :bouncegri
Looks good. It definately will save the noggin in the event of a close encounter with a tree branch. :thumbsup
I could only guess at the weight, but 700-1000lbs maybe??????:beatsme I'm going to get a house window air conditioner and a really long extension cord.:bouncegri Yup, I believe I'll be painting it black now. I think it would look better too...........but gloss or satin, that's the next question??? It does matter to some women, trust me..................especially the foxy one with the really tight sweater at the mall.:yup
:thumbsup looks good...
gloss IMO
Getting alittle closer too done. I've added the roof, expanded metal screen front/back, lights w/guard, grab handles, and D-rings for anchor points. It just needs to be painted now. I ixnay'd the exhaust guard. I'd put one on but ended up cutting it back off. I didn't care for the way it turned out. I'll just have to watch the stack closer while in the brush.
very nice work, want to build me a lift for my new pontoon boat?
Sorry, but no. I've burned up over 20lbs of rod on this thing, and I've grow very tired of welding. I'm now glad it's not my occupation. It's fun to do on little jobs, but on this one it was getting kinda old. I've a new appreciation for those who do it for a living. Thanks for the compliment.
Great job. Now for some paint.......decisions, decisions
Yup. I screwed up when I designed it though. I wanted to make it low enough too fit into my heated garage. I welded most of it up in there, but backed the dozer out before assembling it. When I pulled back up to the garage it wouldn't fit through the door.(about a half inch too high). So I've been working on it in the pole barn now. I had to get that wired special for 220 just so I could use the welder out there on this. I don't have heat in there, so I'll have to wait for a good day to paint it. It's been snowing off and on for the last two days, and only in the 30's.:crying It's too early for this kinda weather. Maybe I'll get a couple more warmer days next week. I'll squirt it if it get's into the 60's even. Maybe 50's if I have too.
You could take it off the tracks then it should fit. :yup
You better dig the floor out in the garage or cut the ROPS off and lower it a inch to be safe One comment would be you might want to modify the bracing on the front over the dash board of the machine. It doesn't look like you could see anything sitting in the seat of the machine.
Good idea on the light gaurds, dont know how many broken off lights ive seen on various pieces of equipment.
Let the air out of the tracks to get it in the door.LOL Very nice work Jeff.!!!Ron G:thumbsup
it looks as if it were a factory option!
Jeff, looks great! Your good with the welder even if you don't do it every day.
I'll second jmac, nice job!
Jeff, I wonder if the extra weight from the orops will help the machine push more. ?
Thanks everyone for all the compliments. I don't know.:beatsme I imagine it couldn't hurt though. I did have traction concernes initially(on my test run in loose gravel), but after using it on my own property I haven't had problems with traction. But, I'm going to investigate the grouser situation some more, later this winter. I think they could certainly be alittle deeper.(they're 3/4" now) Maybe I'll weld on some of the replacement kind, instead of getting whole new grousers. Depends on the prices, if it sounds like they hold up alright, and what JD recommends for grouser depth. If I get it too heavy, and too deep of grousers, I'll have power issues next.:bouncegri
So this is what you guys get up to when I'm away??? Ok...I'm Back and I got the goods...another Australian Special Also...I saw the Black snake many times....its just most of the time he seemed to have Dunlopitis.
BTW...this Hart-Parr runs! I also got a pic of Jeff's new jalop....errr....Truck
Looks like some worms have eaten holes in them Hart Parr wheels. What's that yellow thing on the other side of it? I'm over my "tractor" phase now, and want more pictures of dozers instead.:bouncegri That Chevy's body doesn't look bad, but the box isn't exactly stock anymore, darn it! I would've throwed some paint on er', and put it in the car shows otherwise. And what's that on the windshield, eeeaauuwww!!
They are not Hart Parr wheels and the pioneer museum is trying to find some originals for this machine I will post a couple of pics in the Old Iron section later. The Chevy was the a district fire truck for awhile, hence the body "enhancements". The engine runs well. And don't worry, you got the best part of the deal...have a look at Digger's new truck
You just watch, he'll be mounting a spreader in the back, and putting a plow on the front of it.:yup Kinda reminds me of that truck from "The Waltons" that John boy drove around.
Well, I'm gettin' even closer. I'll add a couple-o-John Deere stickers too it,(whick obviously JD is sending by wagon train:sleeping ), a seat belt, and then......poof......all done. I came up with an exhaust guard that I figured would be good enough for small branches. I also throwed on a fire bottle, some left over reflective stickers from my dump truck, and two small mirrors for backing up. I did manage to get it back into the garage to paint too. I just needed to force the door up another inch, and then carefully remove/mangle/destroy the trim above the door.:crying The pics aren't great. I just took them tonight, but I wanted to get them before I scratch it all up when I pull the garage down trying to get it back out.
I'll beat Steve's new " more than 1 pic = link " for my first pic by putting the rest in a seperate post. (insert muttly laugh here)
Now that you are about finished what are you going to do next? Rase the header on the gerage door and add another panel? I have had a chance to work on the grader for the last 3 weeks and can see the light at the end of the tunel. I fegure in another 6 months I will be looking for another project. The 350 looks great, do you have to do any machanical work to it? I would like to find one in good shape. Dwan
Naw, a good idea though. I may replace the broken trim...............someday. Yup, you haven't posted much on the grader lately? It's coming along though, that's good. Are we gonna get to see the finished goods after?:yup None. Mechanically it's very sound.(knock on wood) I'm thinking about a rake for the blade. The kind that swing up when not in use. That may be my next project. I should check with the guys here and see who's used them, and how good they work when clearing land.
Too bad you didn't live closer Dwan. A guy in the little town of Cotton Mn., near me, just put one out for sale last week. It looks nice too, from the road atleast. It the kind that have the blade attached on the inside of the tracks, rather than the outside like mine. Not sure of the price though, but it's along ways to Alaska anyways, so wouldn't make much difference. I might stop for SAG's, just too find out what it's going for, and the condition, for comparison.
I would love to pick one up like that but I think I have enough projects to keep me busy for the rest of my life already. after the grader I have to get the 69 Z out of the shop it has been taken up a stall for going on 4 years now and I have another lift to put in it's place. I will try to post on the grader soon. Lets hope you never have to use that ROPS for anything but keeping the rain off you.
very nice job, Jeff...the Black & Gold looks good...a couple Steeler decals would fit right in... On the 7018...(DC+...reverse polarity)...some buzz boxes won't run them well, as they don't have the OCV that industrial machines do. Lincoln makes a 7018 for buzz boxes - ''Lincoln 7018 AC'' 7024 runs ok flat...7014 runs vertical better. probably the only thing i would do different is use square tubing for the uprights... :thumbsup
Maybe this is a dumb question, but what does "OCV" refer too? I've just an AC-DC selector, and variable amperage control. For reverse DC I just switch the leads around where they plug in, which is what I used this time. This rod did have a suffix of "MR" behind the 7018. I asked them what it meant and they said moisture resistant.
O pen C ircuit V oltage Your 7018 is the bog standard Low Hydrogen all position rod. As the last two numeral increases ie 7024 7028 so does the iron powder content of the flux. A 7028 is a big thick black sucker which is downhand only....the 70 bit refers to tensile strength....so like a 60 is a about mild steel.
Add I'll have you know that I put a lot of subtle effort into de-railing this thread...you can't just come and post straight back on topic and then carry on like nothing happened:Banghead
Hey, I am not the bad guy here!!:nono You know as well as I do that there's more than just the initial act of de-railing a thread involved. Hi-jacking threads is like having a garden. After you put the plants in you have to go back and maintain them, ie. pick weeds, water, spray for bugs. Well, this is the same way. You may have hi-jacked the thread, but you never came back, so......................it finally went back to weeds!!:yup :bouncegri Now, as for welding, I didn't even think about the voltage. I was thinking only about the amps, but since power(watts)=voltage X amps, I can see how a welder with higher volts could have more power than a lower voltage welder, while still having the same amperage. Alittle higher voltage might help when first striking the rod too, huh?! I'll have to check to see what my no load voltage is, on both AC and DC. On edit: I just checked voltage. @ 20amps AC & DC were both about 70volts(within a couple volts)and @ 230 amps both were inbetween 80-85 volts. Sound about right, or kinda low?
I figured it out myself. I found where is said on the welder that: Primary Volts230 @ 65.7 amps, Secondary OCV 78 volts, arc volts 25 @ 230 amps. So mine seems within specs. (can't measure arc volts)I think my troubles with the 7018 rod were operator error, not the welder. I just need more practice. OK, last pic and I'm done............ I promise!! And thanks everyone for all the input.
Now you need to go roll it over and test it.
The ROPS looks pretty good Jeff :thumbsup You might be building a enclosed cab panels pretty soon its probably pretty cold in your neck of the woods for a open ROPS machine :roll I started welding when I was 15 years old got taught by welders with 30 to 40 years of experience. My grandpa was a welder back in his day they didn't have rods with flux or wire feed welders. My brother is a welder by trade I used to be I went dirt digging instead. No AC machine welds 7018 good you really need to stick with 6011 and 6013 with a AC welder. You can get 7018 designed for for AC but its still not as good as 7018 running DC. Not all welding rods are the same between the brands the steel rod itself is the same its the flux coating makes the difference. You can have a 7018 welding rod one brand pours a nice bead where as another brand is horrible to try even keep a arc going. I learned on 7018 all the welders I worked with said if you can weld good with 7018 you can weld with any kind of rod. Moisture is a big thing with welding rod it has to be kept dry we have even put rods in a oven to dry them out and I don't mean a rod oven I mean one you cook in. I don't weld anymore unless I have to after welding for hours on end in the 15 years I just can't take it. People say the electricity running through your body doesn't hurt you B.S. . Some days I couldn't even straighten my fingers. People that can only weld with a mig welder are not welders a welder is a person that can stick weld that takes the most skill. Anybody can weld with a wirefeed machine its just like using a caulking gun laying a bead of silicone. In our shop we have two DC welders both run on 3 phase power they have 100% duty cycle at max amperage which is around 450-500. We have one AC machine it puts out 600 amps all we use that for is cutting steel with it. You buy boxes of old 1/4" diameter welding rod and crank up the amps on the welder and it cuts scrap steel better than a torch. When we were in the ship building used to have 20 guys working and a fleet of electric welders the power bill used to be pretty high. The best 220 volt welder I have used so far was a Hobart electronic I forget the model but it was a DC machine it used some kind of electronic way of producing a nice smooth DC current. I was very impressed it burned 5/32 7018 Rods really nice no hick ups. It was pretty portable it did weigh 100lbs or more but I could get it into the P/U truck. No more welding talk its bringing back memories of getting burn't to hell :lmao
its beautiful!:notworthy
Hey Ford, we used to sit inside P&H shovels and run 11018's overhead all day hard facing..now there's a rod..after them a 7018 is a piece of cake lollypop. Jeff, whats your welders max output?? and max duty cycle. Your OCV is plenty but whilst a LowHy rod is a bit more difficult to start it sounds like you don't have enough grunt. Getting the 7018 running well is worth the practice as its a vastly superior weld to 6013 GP rod.
Hard surfacing has to be the most boring welding job a person can have :bouncegri Like I said no more welding for me I will let my brother do that I would rather pull wrenches or drive truck. Some of the worst jobs I have had is welding inside garbage trucks or welding on landfill compactors umm the smell of burning garbage juice :naughty Would I recomend going into the welding trade :nono
It's 230 Max amps. 100% duty to about 125 amp then gradually drops to 20% @ 230. I usually weld with a 5/32" rod @ 185amp which is 50% duty. I did notice some ripple on DC when I measured the OCV when set too 230 amp. That's why I gave the 80-85 volt range. I didn't notice any flucuations on AC when measured. When I welded with the 7018 on Reverse DC it would strike great the first time , but subsequent strikes were more of a beating the rod on the steel until it lit up and then finding my way back to the spot to weld. The rod seemed to recess up into the flux while welding.
The best way to strike a arc is drag it on the steel what usually ends up happening with 7018 you stick the rod then it doesn't break free gets hot and the flux pops off. Your burning 5/32 a little on the hot side Jeff especially for 7018 :yup unless your running a long stinger cable. It usually states on the box the recomended amperage for the brand of rod your using. For me I don't even look at the amperage dial I set it close to where I think it should be and turn up the heat if it needs it. Just like shifting a roadranger its all by feel.
Another posting :bouncegri I was looking at your picture of the machine it sure doesn't look like there is much meat on those track pads. They also look like the pads are starting to bend it might be just the picture. Oh well it keeps you from breaking things pushing too hard the tracks will slip before something goes snap :laugh The only thing you might have to be carefull about is sliding down slopes more so if you get into something a little greasy. After the few tobogan rides you shouldn't have any stains in the underwear :yup
The more I think about it I think I just got some crappy rod this time, and it was Lincoln. I had to run real hot to get it to flow, and the slag was amost gummy like. It sounded like frying bacon when I was welding too. I switched back and forth with 6011 when tacking things up, and that went down perfect. I burnt up all that 7018MR, and then tried a box of Nassau Rockmount rod. I don't know how popular it is but I used their "Polaris-A" rod. ( Nassau can't have regular #'s I guess?) http://www.weldit.com/pdf/polaris_a.pdf That also went down real nice, and it''s rated at 95,000psi. Yeah, those grousers are probobly getting down. I haven't priced up new ones yet, but it's on the "to do" list. Oh, it's way to late to worry about stains now!! Unless you meant "new" stains?!
I can't remember if I have ever used Lincoln brand but there has been brands of rod that I tried half a dozen sticks and they don't want to pour right so I threw the box of rod and screamed ****. I don't know if you guys in the US can get Arctec its a non CSA rod (not certified) but it welds decently its a rod designed for doing maintenance like welding up cracks etc. It pours nice you can run it with a AC machine but works the best with DC. When you find a good brand of rod you stick with it my favorite brand is called Corex the other is Liquid Air Blue Shield.
Before I'd always just bought my rod at a local hardware store. When I started this project I thought I'd get "the good stuff" and went to a welding supply shop. That's where I got that Lincoln rod.:spaz I might try some more of the Nassau Rockmount rod. My dad gave this box, and my grandfather used their rod too. It seemed to work good. I agree. Find something that works good, and stick with it.
That ROPS Hi, JeffD. Looks like you've done a great job with that ROPS(?) with the materials you have used. Just a few thoughts though on ROPS construction. I have yet to see a FACTORY or A/M ROPS made from round stock. They are all made from at least heavy wall square tube and most are fully fabricated. It is all but impossible to make anything that would pass the full ROPS tests on a tractor that wasn't originally designed to carry a dedicated ROPS because they simply don't have the mounts for it and the mounts are where any ROPS MUST start. I suspect that you may come to hate that front cross brace above the dash. JUst my 0.02. Don't let the above thoughts dampen your enthusiasm. I still think you've done a good job of building a canopy that will give you a good measure of protection when you are clearing with that little jigger. It does have a lot of potential as a Falling Objects Protection Structure (FOPS) even if it won't make the grade as a ROPS. Speaking of which, I would NOT suggest that you take it for a test run as a ROPS. A couple of men I know reckon it is NOT a good way of filling an idle moment or three. Thanks for sharing. You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.
That would be a more accurate description of it, although I didn't realize there was the term "FOPS". The reason I chose round tube instead of square was I was thought there'd be less chance of hitting a corner on it with my coconut. I didn't realize there was any difference in strength between the two. I would've chose square had I know. Live and learn. My biggest concern was when going through the brush having something fall and hit me. And for that I think it''ll do good. Thank Deas, and glad to see you posting again. You'de been kinda quiet for awhile.
Square Vs Round tube, etc.. Hi, JeffD. Yer most welkum, Mate. There is a substantial difference in strength between the two. Most road vehicle rollover bars are made from round tube for ease of bending and they get away with it because of the lesser loads involved. Construction equipment is built somewhat more substantially and round tube is not so viable an option. Most square tube these days comes with slightly rounded corners anyway, to protect delicate heads. I've been doing a LOT of paperwork for a Level Four Trainers and Assessors course - still at it but thought I'd take a break for a few minutes and saw your posts. I usually seem to have a spare 0.02 in my pocket - er, head - so thought I'd toss it in here. It's good to see that the board hasn't suffered a slow demise in my absence. It's also good to see that Squizzy is not being allowed to hi-jack threads without some resistance. If that cross member above the dash gives you static, you might like to think about removing it and putting long braces down from the middle of the top cross member of the canopy at about 45 degrees to the legs. This would improve the view somewhat. S'up to you. You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.
The cross member in front of the face was a mistake. I wouldn't have been as bad except the larger lower gussets also increase the "blind spot". That portion of the canopy was built while off the machine, then installed upright after. I didn't realize it would cause the blind spot before hand. I can lean slightly too either side and see the blade ends well, so I'm hoping it won't be excessively bothersome. It would take alot of work to remove that cross member, so I'm planning on trying to live with it. If it does turn out to be unliveable, I'll have to motify it. I'm really hoping it's not.:crying If, and when I build something like this again I'll definately implement those improvements.(square tube, no foward cross member, etc.) But Caterpillar is safe from being pushed out of the market by me.............for now.:wink2
For the same given sectional modulus a tube is stronger than square section. By that "stronger" means the circle or cylinder will best resist loads from any direction whereas your box will be better in some directions than others, something the good design boffins will take into account. The circle at the basic level is your strongest shape...you could say its a good allrounder...
Square Vs Round tube, etc.. Hi Squizzy. I ain't an engineer, just an observer and one thing that I have observed is that there are NO OEM's or after-market manufacturers of ROPS equipment that I have seen who are using round tube. As mentioned earlier, at the very least they use heavy wall RHS and by far the majority of them these days are totally fabricated in a rectangular section. Yes, many vehicular roll bars, both internal and external are made from round tube but I have yet to see a CERTIFIED ROPS on ANY earthmoving or construction machine made from round tube. I'm no expert but I suspect that there is a reason for this. Having said that, how are things on the other side of DownUnder these days? All well, I hope. Busier than a one-armed paper-hanger over here. It's all those 'Mexicans' wanting to move up here from down South 'cos they've heard that around here is one of the very few places on earth that are actually fit for human habitation. You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.
G,day Deas, You gotta watch them Mexicans....mind you, I read on a forum somewhere how they reckoned Peter Beatie ( subtle hi-jack in progress snicker snicker) said people would get more skin cancer if daylight savings was introduced in the land of the Bent Banana. They reckoned Beatie was an idiot for saying something like that but another lark chipped in with "he's really smart, he knows most of them banana benders will believe him" But I think they is having a lend of your good nature Deas. Flat out like a one armed Brick layer in Beiruit mate...mostly big structural retaining walls. I'm in the hills at the moment, gravel, through shale and into clay, followed by ironstone...lovely stuff, could use a 25 tonne Ex but no room..my poor brand new little mini is getting flogging on its first job...even knocked all the paint offa me new bucket On the round v square thingy its like this: (back on topic) The square is cheaper to fabricate on account they don't have to send a bloke to boily school for 4 years to learn how to do parrallel line development to make good joins in pipe. Its also much easier to bolt, bracket, gusset to the flats of square section; additionally poorly designed attachments in tube will significantly/drastically reduce the strength of the tube. They can bump up the sectional modulus of RHS slightly and reduce their cost of production in a big way. Basically the problem with tube is joining it. As good as robot welders are they do a much better job of the more geometric stuff. If you want to look at it more closely; formula 1 cars, 500 GP bikes and off road buggies will show the superior strength of tube. Maximum strength for weight ratio. However, if you have a bending moment pretty much in one or two directions some RHS can easily accomodate if designed properly. Specially designed extruded aluminium sections break a lot of the established rules of thumb these days and you will see all manner of shapes on production chook chaser rice burner bikes. These are often built to take very specific loads in a particular direction. A piece of earthmoving equipment is generally not weight critical..and sometimes I think the designers are looking around to add as much as possible. BTW...the ROPS on my new mini are tube as the ROPS/FOPS on our little Cat Ex. Cheers Mate.
I just re-read my posts and consulted my Marks Machinery Handbook and should clarify something. As a geometric shape the triangle is the strongest shape to resist a point load from a given direction. As steel section ( a length of beam, tube etc) then a tube or cylinder is the strongest all-around to resist loads. Just thought I'd clear that up as one of my comments above doesn't make it that clear.
Hey Squizzy, while you're at it, would you have a good reason for me too have a cross member right in front of the face(like mine)..........from an engineering standpoint.:bouncegri I'll just keep the reason tucked away in my pocket and when someone says "This damn crossmember is right in the way of seeing good!" I'll just whip out your handy dandy technical reason, and say "But it's there for a good reason!!" Seriously though, the round tube I used is 3" schedule 40. It's close too 1/4" thick, so I though it would be fairly strong. I have now noticed that most are square tube, but I thought round was just better looking, and might keep the hairpiece from being ripped off if it contacted it during entrance/exit. I've seen many ROPS that "looked" much more flimsy built than mine, although looks doesn't mean much. I tried to think about the stress it might see if things did go wrong, and that's part of the reason for the addition of the sweeps. I fealt that would increase the strength for a roll over forward or backwards. The side roll over possiblity is the reason for all my gussets. The square shape their provides little strength compared to the stabilizing strength provide by the triangle formed by the sweeps. The 45 degree angled bracket on the forward downtubes instead of the crossmember/gussets that Deas recommended would have been a good improvement to my design.:yup It really is needed for more of a "FOPS" anyways. I've seen some that only have a tube that goes up, over, and back down to the frame with a plastic roof mounted to it. It's gotta be better than that (except the visability part). It is an interesting discussion, and I'm always up for learning new things.:thumbsup
...and after doing such a nice job on it, you wouldn't want to see all them "dings" you'd put on it... with round, you'll probably just scrape the paint off...:bouncegri
Are you going to be wearing your seatbelt, Jeff? because, if you're not, your ROPS is just more structure to squash you when you fall out of the seat as you do roll over. (I'm not aiming that at you as much as mentioning it for the general audience. ) I knew a guy, who's probably 100 years old if he's still alive, who rolled a D-8, back in the dark ages--before they'd thought of ROPSes. He said that as soon as he realized it was going over, he bent down and grabbed all the handles he could get his hands on. He was thrown clear on the first roll, and the machine went over, two and a half times total. Put yourself in that position, inside a ROPS, but not belted in, and you're going to be in bad shape anyway...
Always a point of conjecture...I don't often put the belt on but I did today when I was sticking up a hill and things where getting a bit serious. I always watch for skid rollover accident reports...Most common injury in the rollover is a head injury caused by the operator not being belted in the seat...and its often fatal. Jeff, I'd say anything that might help from getting smacked in the cake hole is a good idea. This is most important when pushing around a stack of felled timber. The trunk, branches kick up over the blade and come swinging back at a hell of a rate taking out most things in their path. Your forward braces look like they will do the job well but anything there is better than nothing. Just let me look at the pics again.
LT was right about the rods having moisture in them...Low Hydrogen rod should be kept in an oven. I made one out of a small cabinet with a light bulb in it... the iron powder rods will dry out nicely in the stove's oven or on top of a woodstove other coatings don't dry well...once their damp, their junk. the best machines i've used are the Lincoln motor/generator type...but they're electric hogs...and a Lincoln 250DC gas drive. for stick...I have a Lincoln 250/250 AC/DC that i bought at an auction...they used to be around $1000 new. it didn't weld right...like running LH on AC...when i was on DC+. talked to Lincoln...they said change diodes just so happens, they use the same large diodes on battery powered fork trucks at work. Works perfect. I've had Lincoln & Miller machines, elec./gas/diesel...and both their customer services have been top notch.
GOOD POINT!
Jeff, overall, those lower brackets on that crossmember really add nothing but weight to the structure on account of the brackets on top. Its just a bit of overkill. I'd tend to chuck a nice welding blanket over the machine, get the gas axe and pair those lower brackets out...probably run them back to say a 3" inside radius in the corner. PITA but I think the extra vision will be worth it. You were on the right track just poor excecution....at least thats what my missus always says
One comment would be you might want to modify the bracing on the front over the dash board of the machine. It doesn't look like you could see anything sitting in the seat of the machine I guess I was the only one to notice that crossbar over the dash board would be a problem with vision I meantioned it on page two and I think that was before Jeff had paint on the ROPS :laugh Now everbody else is commenting that the cross bar is in the way on page 5 sure shows how many of you are paying attention. If enough of you said something earlier Jeff could have had that bar chopped out before he put the paint on the ROPS :guns You do lean to either side to watch when running dozer which is why some Cat dozers have a seat that is turned to the right or left depending on the operator. The cross bar on Jeff's ROPs is probably overkill I don't think the ROPS will rack to the side if a tree falls on it or god forbid a barrel roll down a hill The easiest way of cutting that out would be with a zip disk in a angle grinder you can cut through the welds or chop the whole thing out. Zip disks are about 7"s in diameter about 1/8 thick they work good for cutting. Start using a torch you will have to cover everything up and it will burn the paint off the parts you don't want touched. If you ever watched American Chopper you probably seen them use Zip disks for cutting metal they use smaller disks.
Yeah Jeff...turn around so I can hit you in the back of the head :naughty
I will definately have a seat belt, and will wear it. I feel uncomfortable when not wearing a seat belt. I didn't want one before having the cage because I was worried it would just get me killed, but now I won't run it without. I've a neighbor with a plasma cutter. If it will cut 1/4" steel I could drive the dozer to his shop and have him cut out those lower gussets for me. I'm going to run it first and see if their removal is needed. I think it'll be ok with them there, although I wish I'd have left them off. You're right LT, I don't want to use a torch. I'd be better off completely cutting that whole front structure off (from the roof down)and remaking it before using my big junkyard torch on it. It would look like a mess, and possibly burn up my dozer in the process. Had I a better torch set-up, and something fireproof to cover everything with, I might try it. The plasma cutter would do a better job though. Xkvator, I wondered about the rectifier with the voltage fluctations I had when I measure the DC OCV. I didn't know how smooth it should've been. I got about a 5 volt fluctuation. There could be a diode going/gone. It's something I'll have to have checked. The welder is.........uh hum...........is a Montgomery Wards 230 amp AC/DC welder.(ok start the laughing now) I inherited it from my grandfather. I think it's actually a Century welder(just as bad:bouncegri )It's real old, real heavy, and real big, but it has done the job so far.
Jeff, I never gave it a second look but 5/32" is a 4mm rod. Thats a really big ask in 7018 for a 230 amp welder. I looked up my old notes and we ran 4mm 4818 (metric 7018's ) at 210 amps for vertical up on Lincoln 400/400 machines. For downhand we ran 225 to 230. You should only be running 3.2 mm rods max on that machine (1/8"). What xkvator said is right on the button. Basically the flux in LowHy's is hygroscopic. Grab your old rods and smack them with hammer until the flux falls off. Then have a look at the filler wire for signs of rust if the contamination is really bad...although, there can be no rust and they are still stuffed. You can re-bake lowhy's in the oven, not less than 6 hrs at 180F on a tray lined with alfoil until golden brown....err...hang on...thats the upside down cake...but the 6 hours should do the trick if they are not too bad. Doesn't always work.
Probally getting off the original topic..but what the heck everyone else does it to. We have a hard time to get operators to wear their seat belts when running the rollers equipped with ROPS. They are in the mind set that if it goes over they want to be able to jump. Buckle up when your machine is equipped with ROPS, you will have a much better chance of survival in event of a roll over. Also they can roll very quick, so sometimes jumping is not an option. If your machine is not equipped with ROPS, it will most likely not have a seat belt either. If it does have a seat belt and no ROPS...don't buckle up.
This is so true. People can't react as fast as they "think" they can. I read a study once about farm tractors going over rearwards from being hooked to high (above the drawbar:nono ) Often they didn't have a ROPS or anything else, and often the people were crushed to death. The study went on to explain how fast they go over backwards compared to how fast a persons reaction time is. The time it takes a person to realize there's a problem, and then do something to correct/prevent it is not near enough time. It's like someone thinking they'll quick put their seatbelt on in a car if they're starting to have an accident.
Here's a question. Is this really an OROPS on this dozer? http://www.equipmenttraderonline.com/addetail.html?84195562 I just picked this particular machine randomly, but I see alot of advertisements for all sorts of machines with similiar set-ups, and they say "OROPS". How could that thing possibly hold up to rolling over, and provide protection to the operator? It would have too to be able to advertise it as such, wouldn't it?:beatsme Is it engineered so well that it's looks are deceiving?
I have a similar canopy "ROPS" on my Komatsu but it has a heavier crossmember overhead than the BD2G's. I think that there are "ROPS" and then there are "Certified ROPS" meaning that it meets (North American?) ROPS spec. I can get a certified ROPS for mine - all the bracket bolt holes are there - but it is expensive and weighs about a ton IIRC. I guess grey market machines are "caveat emptor" for the ROPS too.
If I worked on slopes I always put my seat belt on in a track loader or dozer. In the rubber tired backhoe I wore the seat belt most the time it kept a guy from getting a chapped azz :roll In a rubber tired hoe your bounced around so much its hard to keep your butt planted in the seat. I used to take the backhoe down steep roads it was hard to keep yourself from sliding forward. As for machines with the Halo bar behind your head like you see on some tractors don't offer much projection. The roof that cantilevers over top is more to keep the rain and sun off of you. Many accidents over the years with skidders and people not wearing seat belts they get thrown out of the cab machine rolls over top of the oprator and its crushed.
The smaller dozer is equipped with FOPS. It looks like the larger dozer parked next to it has the ROPS, but it is hard to see. I believe that any machine that weights less than 2760 kgs (approx. 3 ton) does not have to be equipped with ROPS. Anything over this weight has to be. Also if I remember correctly anything(over 3 ton) that was built before 1976 does not have to have the ROPS. I wonder how much this dozer weights? or how old it is? I would hope that anyone that buys this machine will know the difference between ROPS and FOPS
''Yes, many vehicular roll bars, both internal and external are made from round tube but I have yet to see a CERTIFIED ROPS on ANY earthmoving or construction machine made from round tube. I'm no expert but I suspect that there is a reason for this. '' I don't know what you're looking at in Australia,but for one,my 450D Deere has a certified ROPS as do most small Deere dozers,built with a massive round tube stock.I'm pretty sure other small dozers use round also--I'll have to keep an eye out.Jeff--your cage looks good,but I have to ask--with all the old iron in your neck of the woods,could'nt you find a factory Deere ROPS,even the one with the front sweeps?And I have'nt forgotten that old greasing equipment--I'll get to it.
I have a JD450 and would like to add sweeps to it so I don't have to replace another exhaust pipe. Where should the sweeps attach to? Do I need to drill new holes?
What I was referring to is the factory ROPS Deere installs for tree/logging work.From memory,I believe the 2 round diagonal sweeps get bolted to the top of the radiator support and they are welded to the top of the cage on the other end.I should have gotten them years ago too--been whacked in the head too many times:bash
I "think" they're around 8k lbs, not sure about year. Until Deas mentioned it, I'd never heard of a "FOPS". I may have seen the term before, but maybe thought it was a typo.:yup I didn't recollect the term atleast. I'm definately not up on equipment like most of you here though, so I would've not known the difference. (other than thinking it was an awful marginal one)If it said OROPS I would've taken that's what it was. I'm still learnin'. I may have been able too.I didn't even look around really, I wanted to try and make one. I like the challenge and enjoy creating something from scratch. I thought I could build one as strong as a factory one. It's hard to judge without a test, but I'm happy with the results. No big deal on the greasing equipment either. Whenever you get a chance.:thumbsup I'm not sure about a 450. My 350 had all the mounting holes already there for the standard factory ROPS. If you look back in my pictues you'll see two square areas on the lower rear of the dozer, with 4 threaded holes, on each side. This is where the factory one mounts too. The 450 I think is the same. The sweeps mounting holes are on top of the hood, but mine had some on the side also. I used the side one instead. The center mounting point on mine is the same as the factory location. I wouldn't think you'de need to drill any holes.
Hvy 1ton, you can look at the factory ROPS online at the John Deere parts site. It'll give you an idea of the different ways they mount depending on if you've a backhoe, etc. on it. http://jdpc.deere.com/jdpc/servlet/com.deere.u90490.partscatalog.view.servlets.HomePageServlet_Alt
I didn't take it as slam at all Grader4me. So no problem there. I agree with the rest of what you said too, about the ROPS.
Duh! It finally occured to me to go looking directly for the source of the requirements for a ROPS. From OSHA ( http://ehso.com/oshaConstruction_W-Z.htm ): So, with reference to whether machines pictured are equipped with a ROPS, or a FOPS, if it's newer than 1972, it must be a ROPS, otherwise it wouldn't be legal in the first place. I've not read the spcifications they cite, but apparently, it can bend to a certain degree, as long as it doesn't break. And apparently, part of the intent is that the machine will be more likely to end up laying on its side, rather than on its back. They even have a slide show: http://web.dcp.ufl.edu/hinze/Subpart-W.ppt#257,5,ROPS Design Objective
less jabber more pics lol great work on your new lid now get some action pics
More Jabber Attached is a little more information. I was wrong about the date...I thought it was 1976 (bad memory due to age) I was pretty much on about the weight though. This pretains to rollers. http://www.gov.mb.ca/labour/safety/pdf/bltn100.pdf
We could be discussing Vegemite.... :yup :bouncegri
OH YEAH I FORGOT ABOUT THAT
Notice this statment "(c)(1) All material handling equipment described in paragraph (a) of this section and manufactured or placed in service (owned or operated by the employer)" That gives any of us that do not have employes an out if needed.
:laugh Probally less confusing...and maybe more interesting:yup
I see how this works now!! The second I walk out the door for work this morning you guys feel like talking about ROPS, now I'm back and it's already degraded into Vegemite discussions.
Digger, did you get the slide show you had a link too to work? I can't. Is it worth watching?
ROP Mounts Your ROP look's good, mine on my 650G is mounted with rubber, yrs ago I welded one up solid on my 977 Cat and it lasted a day before the welds cracked. Just throwing that out their.
Don't start talking like that now!!:nono It is something I've thought/worried about. Time will tell. The sweeps are bolted and pinned on, so they should have enough give. The rest is one piece, although it is bolted to the dozer. I hope there'll be enough give, or a lack of stress put on it, that it won't happen. I'll be keeping an eye on it for sure. Thanks for the compliment too.:yup
I just started reading this thread, sorry to be quoting from so long ago. Why doncha just let some air out of the tires?
Hey, no problem. The idea of dropping tire pressure would've been a good idea, but this piece has tracks on it.
You're responsible for knowing this material, and we can't be holding up the whole class to go back and review for your sake. :nono If you can't keep up, perhaps you should consider a less academically challenging program. Dr. Dahlgren is a very busy man, and we're lucky to have him here. And stop asking silly questions... (There, do you feel sufficiently chastized? :wink2 ) :waving Dr. Dahlgren, Dr. Dahlgren! I have a question.... So, why didn't you just jack the machine up, get the grinder out, and grind 1/2" off the bottom of the tracks?
We see who sat in the front of the classroom.:laugh You also brought an apple to the teacher everyday didn't you Digger.:yup
No, actually it's the other way around. You don't remember those little speeches so well when they're aimed at somebody else... :spaz
I was going too just flip it over, and then grind down the tracks, but I didn't have the ROPS done yet.:bouncegri I had the feeling Alan was making a joke(with the tire thing), but I don't know him well enough to really tell. So I went easy on him. Beside's in his "Big Load and Haul Operation" thread he looked old, so I was being respectful too.:wink2
:sleeping ..........Speeches, what speeches........what page are we on?
Ahhh Geez. You're not as smart as I thought you were then. If you flip it over and grind the tracks down, after you flip it back upright, and drive forward toward the garage, the part of the tracks that was on the bottom is now on the top, and what was on top is now on the bottom. You have to flip it over again to grind down that part too, and when you do, it can get stuck in the garage doorway. That's why it's better just to jack it up... :thumbsup
Why am I soo stupid?? I never think of those easy ways to do things like you do Digger.:Banghead Actually, the way it worked was that part of the garage has doors on both ends. I drove it around to the other side, checked clearance, and it seemed like it would fit(but just barely). So I creeped ahead slooowwly, and about halfway through the door I heard the wood trim going crack (and other wood breaking sounds) so no more problem. I just reached up and yanked what was left down.:thumbsup All better.
He could have just ground down the tracks then driven it till the short lugs were on the bottom then drug it the rest of the way. I still think the answer would have been to take the tracks off.
Didn't some wise a** already suggest that??Ron G:bouncegri
Guess replacing the grousers in the garage are out.....would be hard to wear them enough for it to fit back out the door.
u should have just pushed the dang cement out of the way and it would have fit fine who needs a nice flat floor anyway
Would it fit if you roled it on it's side and drug it in?
Hmmm,It may very well!!:yup But let's not get off track with this getting the dozer in and out of the garage thing.:nono This is no longer the issue, as I've overcome this obsticle with the aid of poor height perception, and force. The garage is now dozer accessable. My concern now is how can I make it appear like I care about my houses appearance, and the missing trim and paint, without actually caring about my houses appearance or the missing trim and paint?
Sue yourself for the damage you caused, and use the money to pay someone to do repairs. (Of course, knowing you, you'd just pocket the money anyway...)
Well the dilema is, if I trick a woman into..................er, if I am entertaining a lady guest at my place, I don't want them to think that I care more about being able to get the dozer into the garage, than having painted matching trim and blah,blah,blah.:wink2 It's the proverbial "You can't have your cake, and eat it too!"
If she cares more about the trim and paint than the dozer, then she's not the right woman for you...:naughty Joe
Good luck with that! :Banghead
looks like its time for the popcorn celing look hides eveything
Joe, I'll see how she interacts with the equipment first, and if they're ok with her, then I may take it too the next step.:yup
jeffd, you ever get back this way, let me know a day ahead...i'll buy you lunch
Will do!!:thumbsup
Over height I'm a Car Hauler by Trade and I have a extra height measuring stick if anyone needs one for future jobs. 11ft machine--10ft door??? It keep me from making convertibles out of Ford Powerstrokes.
I have a dozer just like that but its the 550, not the 350. We got it given to us by my dads boss so we are not sure what year it is. It also has a problem with its drive, after about 20-30 minutes of use it will lose pushing power and we are not sure what the problem is. I wanted to open a new thread but it wouldn't let me so any help would be great. Thanks
Welcome to the forum jd550. :usa After you make 3 posts to any thread (except TGIF), after a short time you will become a Junior Member and be able to start your own thread about your machine and questions.
OK thanks, wasnt sure about that
There ya go...no you have 2 posts. Go to the new members thread and introduce yourself...that'll be #3. It takes about an hour or so for your status to be change to Junior Member after your third post. Edit: son of a gun...he beat me to it!
Looks Nice..But it's a one man machine now...meaning you..If an employee ran your equipment it would be contributory negligance if it rolled over and the unit failed..My machines all have square tube, certification stickers and tell you not to weld on it, drill it, change it,,And if you have a rollover..replace the entire unit...But you still did a nice job on it..
thats sweet.
looks like factory Hey, I have owned one of these machines with factory ROPS, it look very simular. great job!
Hi Guys, When new 46A dozers started arriving on the project most of them had Medford ROPS made with round tubing. Some of the ROPS were made by Selby using square tubing. Google Medford ROPS and you will see a picture of a 41AC with a Medford canopy
Jeff D, What you are experiencing with 7018 is normal. I use 6011 for vertical and overhead but, I admit tough slag to chip. Layflat is always 6013 for me, never had a problem with strength and the slag will blow off with a strong wind.
Nice job. Recommend some brush guards if you are going to be working in the woods.
Thanks everyone. After four years there's still been no cracking on, or near, any welds, although I still haven't rolled it over.:tong Have had to tighten the mounting bolts a few times, though.:wink2
the only thing i would do is add an x in the back window for sideways strees very nice job by the way
Hey Jeff,how have you been?Nice to hear from you again,don't stay away so long!!Ron G
Thanks M630. Hello Ron. I've been alright. Been lots of changes in my life, but we're still plugging away. Glad to see you're still plugging away, too.
Jeff I am a self-taught welder and am always trying to learn from pros because trial and error is so time consuming. I just now saw this thread. I used to use 6011 utility rod exclusively because that’s all I had. Then someone introduced me to 7014 and 7018. My old AC Lincoln cracker box likes 6011 just fine but it spatters so much that unless the steel is very rusty or painted, I now prefer 7018. Yes you have to turn up the amperage to weld with 7018 but I get better looking welds with all other things being equal. Or you can use the next smaller diameter 7018 rod and the same amperage. I find that 7018 slag sometimes peals off the weld by itself with overall way less cleanup. I get far fewer inclusions with 7018. Not so with 6011. I use 7014 to "fix" my messy welds once things are stuck together. The 7014 has powdered steel mixed into the flux and gives you a weld that looks like you knew what you were doing all along. 7014 slag peals and chips to give a much cleaner looking weld. I don't generally use 7014 to start with because it doesn't penetrate as well as 6011 or 7018. I end up using the grinder on most of my welds to clean them up and am jealous of the guys who can run a perfect bead and never get spatter in the wrong place. My hands are beginning to shake uncontrollably now while welding. I am not sure what to blame that on, manganese or old age. I guess I’ll pick old age because manganese is avoidable. There isn’t a dang thing I can do about old age. John
Try not to be a stranger here,you have so much to contribute. Do you still have the Mack?Is Dad still with you?Bring us up to date.I am doing fine,still breathing occasionally that is )Ron G
7018's, even straight out of the tin, need to be baked dry in an electrode oven, do that, use them while they're warm, and you'll be okay at around the same settings as for 6011's. If you have two voltage options on your plant, go for th higher, usually 75 - 80 volts, as the normal 50 - 55 volt setting will not keep the arc going at the lower current setting. If you're on DC, check the recommendation whether it's DC straight or reverse. Makes a lot of difference.
Tested out as first class welder 30 years ago, dont weld to often any more. The hotter you run LH the more under cut and spatter you have making it harder to clean, learn to start arc at lower amps but a little more than 6011. Higher crest weld is acutualy weaker than moderate crest, esier to tear at edge of weld because of steeper angle. Good luck to you.
Thanks I@D, ih100 & John for the info. Ron, geez alot has changed on my end since we last talked. Dad passed away. Mom sold the house and now lives with me. I sold the Mack and got a job with "The Man".(driving city bus for Duluth.) Alot of other stuff, too, but those are the biggy's. Still like scratching around with my old equipment and making things, when I have the time. Did some SS welding not too long ago on some pieces I was making. Used E308-16 rod, and was really happy with the results from that. Welds came out very nice.
Sorry to hear about your dad.Indeed big changes but sounds like you are doing well.Less headaches has got to be good.I hope that you can find time for us here,we have missed you.Welcome back.Ron G
Sorry to hear about your father, I was in the same place February. In time the pain eases and you remember the good stuff. All the best, pal.
Home Made OROPS Hi Jeff, The mesh that you used in the (rops) is it high tensil or not, With the gusets that that you put in, Are they high enoff or not (Dose it vibrate Much), Also how come you did not put mesh on the sides? And dose the brase a-cross the front get in the way of view., You have done a good job. Best Regards Andrew Wylie ATWC, Aust.
Hi Jeff, sorry about your father. Welcome back
I don't believe it is. I did not ask for anything special when I purchased the expanded metal, so I assume it's just run-of-the-mill grade, whatever that would be. The gussets are large enough. I've had no cracking or noticable flexing. I use the dozer for plowing snow in the winter. If I run in forth gear on the frozen ground it does shake, but everything shakes then.:tong No mesh on the sides due to the boxes on both sides of the seat open from the top. It would hit. I could've designed something that would hinge out of the way, but opted for the simpler design. The cross brace in front of the operator does hinder the view. I could remove it, but instead lean to the side and look at the blade tip. Thank you for the compliment, too. Hey to you too, Jmac, and thanks.