Hi all! First things first - I know nothing! I have never operated any heavy equipment except for our antique tractor. I am very open to advice but I also have researched heavily and studied what should cover our year-round needs. I live and work with my family (wife and 4 children) on a remote property near Two Harbors, MN. This is the Lake Superior Highlands where we get more than the average Minnesota snowfall. Our driveway is around 1300ft of gravel through dense forest with a decent slope (unsure of grade) and turn. This is both our homestead and the location of my office/shop/studio, and we homeschool the kids, so we truly "live" here. Currently we have the following equipment: - 2014 Honda 420cc Rancher with plow - 1958 Ford 961 tractor with original loader (trip bucket) and back blade - 1994 Toyota plow truck, 4x4 with chains, Meyer blade (came with the property) - two-stage MTD walk behind snowblower I paid $100 for Warm-weather needs include: - taming rough/overgrown land and general landscaping - moving logs and rocks - road grading and spreading gravel/dirt - trail clearing/management (although a forestry mulcher is way out of my budget) - managing our small orchard - basic construction utility if we build our own pole barn, greenhouse, woodshed, or something. My son would like to build a tiny log cabin or sauna just for fun. - trailering to our rustic lake property for the same sort of work as above Cold-weather needs are dealing with snow of course. We plow the 1300ft driveway/road, and do what we can pushing piles in parking areas using the plow truck. I haven't used the tractor loader much to move snow because I don't have chains for it and am unsure how reliable it would be to depend on it in the cold. We plow with the Honda ATV when the snows are modest but it's not useful in big/heavy snow. It is nice for final cleanup. We got 3 winters of use out the "free" plow truck but it's obvious now that we need a real solution. To be perfectly frank I don't enjoy operating the tractor or the snowblower because of the exhaust smell getting everywhere. I know I could rework the exhaust on the tractor but I still have the same concerns about depending on it in the winter. It's mostly "fun" for restoration someday, pulling logs out of the woods, and eventually a hay wagon for the kids. I operate a product development technology business on the property which demands most of my time, and the rest of my time goes to the kids, so while I love machines and wrenching, I do not have any time for that at this stage in my life. So I need things that work and do not require a lot of fiddling. I would love for you all to suggest/discuss recommendations for a CTL/MTL suitable for our purposes. My requirements are: 1. Must be able to tow with a common "skid steer trailer" and 1T truck 2. Must have traction on sloped roadway 3. Must be usable in Springtime mud or clay 4. Must support easy attachment to blade, bucket, forks, grapple, post hole digger, and eventually maybe a blower without leaving the cab 5. Must meet budget of 25-35k (40k if there is something really amazing) including a basic set of attachments and ideally a trailer - blade, bucket, forks? Questions: TRACKS OR WHEELS? I know lots of guys run wheeled skid loaders with tall tires and/or chains, and our plow truck has demonstrated that combo can go a long way. But I really don't think wheels would be the right tool in the warm seasons. We are in the forest - it gets wet and soft. A neighbor has an ASV tracked loader and it seems to do the job pretty well. With the slope on the driveway I know I will need the right tracks, but I am hoping I am right that tracks will be the right thing overall. I don't want to stud them or anything. CTL OR MTL? Does a CTL or MTL sound right for my purposes? MAKE/MODEL? I had been looking at the big Cat 299D or Kubota SVL90 but I believe these blow the #1 requirement due to weight. So maybe I am looking at a ~74hp unit? HOURS, AGE, HISTORY? A lot of the machines in my budget are >3000hr. Is there some threshold over 3000hr where these become too expensive to operate and maintain? I don't want to spend 30k on a machine then not be able to afford either the time or money (or both) to keep it running. Please share your thoughts and any followup questions to help narrow this down!
First thing I would address is the engine. Over 75 hp and you are into SCR assuming your looking at a Tier 4 final era machine. Being a homeowner, I would say you don't need the added performance of a high hp machine and the added expense and headache of SCR. I would suggest staying under 75 hp. I would also suggest getting a high flow machine, it will give you more options on snow blower and land clearing attachments. Obviously a cab machine would be wise. Wheels or tracks: If you have no problems with chains, wheels are better in my opinion than tracks, you may not even need chains them depending on what you got going on and the type of tires you run. If you want to go tracks, realize that track machines can get expensive once the hours add up. Its the cost of doing business as a contractor, but as a homeowner, replacing drive motors or tracks can be serious expense if the machine is not making you money. If your able to buy new or newer, those issues are less likely, but at 3K its a crap shoot and at $5-7K per drive, the stakes are high. If you go tracks, the ASV or CAT MTL's do one thing very well and that is snow. I wouldn't even consider one for dirt work doing what I do, but the track system does do snow well. Again, buy used and that track system is expensive to go through, way more than anyone's CTL and that is not even considering drive motors. Make: If you read through all these threads, every color has it's moments. They all do somethings well and other things not so well and everyone on here has their personal opinions, including me. Much depends on the make and the year of the machine as to potential issues, and of course buying used means knowing that particular machines exact condition. Usually, the newer you can buy the better.
I'm a fan of tracked machines. They are a lot more stable and more enjoyable to run in my opinion. Tires are nice on hard surfaces, but once you get out into softer material its no comparison. They're not good at pushing snow though. It's going to be rough (at least in my area) to get a good machine WITH multiple attachments and stay in your price range, especially if you're looking at a large frame machine like a 299. Do you really need a machine that large? If for just around the house I'd look at Bobcat T630 or T650 or Case TR310 or TV370. They're more a medium sized machine and not near as big and heavy as the Cat 299 or Bobcat T870. I'd get the lowest hours you can get... like ideally under 1000. In my experience once they get over 3000 they can be a real money pit. I got a deal on a Bobcat T300 with 3200 hrs on it. It was fine at first but it seemed to be one thing after another with it. By the time I was done, the money I spent on it could have bought a newer waaay lower hour machine. Most of the contractors I've worked for seem to trade them off in the 2500 - 3000 hr range. A Bobcat salesman told me that the trade in value really drops once it hit the 3k hour mark.
Thanks for your responses guys! Okay cool - so we focus on ~74hp machines. Adding a high-flow requirement sounds good, but I don't know how to filter listings by that necessarily unless I pick specific models/terms (like Cat XHP), right? @Mike_IUOE I really don't know if I need a machine as large as a 299. I am sure I could use it, our property is mostly wild, but it's also somewhat tight quarters until we push back the woods a bit. So between that factor, the >75hp engine issue, and the face that 299/svl90/T870 class machines are probably not practical for me to tow, I think I should put that option aside. I only considered it initially because there is a 2014 299D for sale with 3681hr for $29950. But I don't know it's history. I will check out the specific models you suggested! It seems like <1000hr is really hard to find for less than 40-50k+. I appreciate the advice on the 3000+hr, I kind of suspected that might be the case... diminishing returns. Regarding tracks - my thinking is that even if it isn't ideal in the snow, I am figuring it will be better all-around, especially in the soft mud/clay shoulder seasons. But @KSSS I get what you are saying that I could end up with an expensive maintenance visit within 1-2yr which would defeat the purpose of this purchase. That would not be good. Maybe if we focus on lower-end MTL's there might be something new enough in the 1-2000hr range which would give us some runway before it needs that maintenance? And yes - I am only looking at enclosed cabs. Should I consider buying a machine from a Southern state and having it shipped (~$1000) to MN? Or is that unwise? Any other tricks to finding used?
Its hard buying one out of state unless you can go look at it and see its true condition. Even then if you dont know much about the machines, its probably a good idea to find a dealer or mechanic that can inspect it for you. A few hundred to inspect a machine isn't really that much considering how much the machine costs. Most of my experience is with Bobcat and the dealers in my area give an option to buy an extended warranty on the machine. Usually around $800- 1000 for 300 hrs or 1 year. Sometimes they'll throw it in if they really want the sale. The best thing to do is contact the dealers in your area and demo the machine. It will give you a good feel for it and you'll be able to see if its a good fit for what you need it to do. Even if you don't buy from them it give you an idea of what size and type of machine you need.
I am sure you can find something in Mn or very near you. If you want tracks I would try and find something around 1K hours up to 2K, but would not go over that personally. I like to trade mine out at 1500 hours. I like the CASE TR310 and the TV370, in full disclosure, I had a 310 on a long term rent and have run the 370 but never owned either one. The 310 is a midsized radial lift machine 74 hp, the 370 is a large frame machine with a vertical lift path. Doesn't sound like your loading trucks so radial would be fine, but probably would not matter for you one way or another. The CAT equivalent is a 289D. What I like about CNH (includes New Holland) is that they are DOC only under 75HP, they do not have a DPF. I think that is a pretty powerful selling point. I agree with Mike, do some demo's, talk to dealers and see who you would like to do business with and who's machine feels right to you. It will be pretty quiet in most dealerships for the next couple months, good time to shop, you might find a great deal as well. The end of the year purchases have been made, so anything still sitting is going to sit until Spring, especially in Mn. That is a good situation for you to be in.
Hi guys, quick update. A local owner/operator who I trust is selling his personal 2015 Kubota SVL90-2 with roughly 800hr for $45k. It looks essentially like new. I like the idea of purchasing from someone I know and trust, although with implements this will be way over my original planned budget. Also, I do think I would need new tracks in order to feel confident on our sloped driveway. How does that sound? Any thoughts on maintenance on the Kubota? I see the radiator tip-out. But generally the reviews sound great for this unit. His recommendation was to hire out hauling it when I need it at the lake property for $1-200 each time vs. worrying about a trailer, licensing, etc. and this does make sense to me. That is why I am not as worried about the larger machine. Thoughts?
The SVL90 is a good machine. I've run one. My thoughts are for your purpose, you'd be better off going with a wheel machine and OTT tracks/chains. As great as track machines are, in my OPINION, you will not get the same life span and your maintenance costs will be double on a track machine. Most issues with the newer machines must be dealt with by the dealer. Most of the older machines, you can figure it out on your own. If you do want a track machine, I'd aim to get something pre emissions, circa of 2010-13; if you go that route, Takeuchi and Gehl would be on top of my list. Most models pre 2010 or so were prone to drive motor issues, so be careful there. Have a look across the border in Canada. With the $US you might be able to get a real good deal north. If you're a contractor and can bill the track machine at full rate, different story. Hiring out the haul of the machine is a pain. You're always on someone elses schedule. Can get frustrating. If you go the wheel machine route, I'd look for a bobcat S220/50, Case 445/50 or similar. Guys that maintain them get upwards of 6k plus hours out of these things. Good luck
Take a look at ASV RC-30's, in your area. I think their mfg plant is in grand rapids. You might be able to rent one first, too. As they age/get more hrs on them, there are things that wear, though. An ASV and 3-4 attachments, will not overload a 1 ton, pulling a 6K trailer. A lot of times, you can rent the attachments, too, so get the basics, grapple bucket, dirt bucket, would be first on the list...
I would agree with Canuck, and try and go pre emission which includes T4i and find a T3 or a newer under 75 hp machine. I think your hard pressed as it sounds to justify a 90 hp machine and if are not going to work it, T4i and T4F can be an issue, Kubota has issues even if you do work them. Judging by the year I would guess that to be a T4i, but I cant say for certain. It would be tempting to buy a machine you know, but the guy isn't going to pay to maintain it once its yours, if you have the money and dont mind throwing some at it if you have emission issues, that would be a perhaps a different story.
For a Novice, rubber tire and OTT Tracks or just basic chains will do you a better traction than any track machine and teach you as you need to learn the nuances of operating. Track can be great but also unforgiving as in Snow, once hung they are a chore to unstick.
Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful comments! I definitely get the recommendations to look at wheel machines. I am not at all opposed to that, and despite my inexperience can totally see how tires with chains would be ideal on the snow/ice (our current Toyota 4x4 with chains has demonstrated that for 4 winters). But our property is quite wild with slopes, heavily forested areas, a lot of remaining brush, and an Alaska-like muddy season given our location along glacial moraine slopes inland from Lake Superior. This is why I still believe tracks would be best overall provided I can figure out a track pattern which would reliably get me back up the driveway after a plow Do you think I am completely off base with this assumption? I know ASV-style MTL's can be expensive to maintain but I would expect the fixed CTL-style like Bobcat, Kubota, and some of the CAT's should be at least not quite as expensive? The suggestion that it would be inconvenient to depend on someone else to haul really resonates, so I'll need a trailer. I would probably do a gooseneck and tow it with our 1999 F350 (7.3). I would not be hauling frequently, just for projects at the lake 70mi away and to the dealer if we need service. I do believe the 2015 SVL90-2 is T4i. I think they went T4f with the later SVL95. I understand these are large machines. But having a wild property to tame I have a feeling we could make use of it. If I knew of a trusted SVL75 for sale, or maybe a CAT 259D or something, I'd consider that too. Since this will effectively be our "tractor" I need to make sure we get as much machine as we can, but of course I don't want to end up with something impossible to haul or too large to get around our property.
Situation similar to yours...I live in Montana, driveway is a mile long and 7 to 8 percent grade. A plow truck is still the best way to keep it clear, Then I clean up with a wheeled skid steer and oversize bucket. A wheeled skid steer is a very useful machine to have around the property. I only have 10K tied up in my Cat 245 (open cab) and have put over 300 hours on it piddling around here. I have a Ford 640 tractor with a 8' back blade, a D4 dozer and a ATV with a plow but still use the plow truck for most of the snow removal. Find out if there is a place around you that rents skid steer attachments. It will increase versatility at little extra cost.
I have a slightly different take on this- I would think about a nice, newer 4WD CUT tractor. Something in the 30-50 hp range. Most of the late model tractors in that range have the standard skid steer hookups on the loader so you can run the same implements. You didn't say how much land you are trying to maintain, but an ag tractor is pretty much a given on most acreages. Don't get me wrong, I cuss pretty much every time I get on my old Case IH, and smile every time I get in my Bobcat, but if you have never really been around heavier equipment, mixing inexperience, hilly terrain, and a skid steer can get you in trouble pretty quick. I also live in a very hilly region, and until you really get the feel of your skid steer, it can be pretty unsettling at times. I don't have to deal with snow, but we get plenty of mud with clay and the 4x4 Case will go places my bobcat wouldn't even think about. It's also nice to put an old $400 brush hog on the back of the tractor and just go to town at some overgrown pasture and not have to worry about overheating my hydraulics or running up the hours on the skid steer. Just my $0.02, other may disagree.
Not much in the way of traction belting for Rubber Track CTLs, they do have a Steel Track set up much as the old Track Loaders yet I have not had the opportunity to see what they are all about. Rubber Tracks are for One sole purpose, Low Ground Pressure where will be the proverbial Hog on Ice in snow on grade. Rubber Tire can add Steel tracks or chains or remove as the need dissipates, conventional rubber track you are stuck with regardless time of day week or year. This company offers Aggressive rubber tracks, may wish to consider prices: https://www.tracksandtires.com/mach...kUbmzSbbAcyArIETVnYfhjVR_52oUSCxoC_E8QAvD_BwE
Thanks @DMiller - I had been looking at the zig-zag tracks, I have heard they are not too bad on snow and ice. I know pros use them for plowing all over MN, but I also know for our driveway a plow truck is probably the best for that specific purpose alone. I realize I'm trying to cram a lot of uses into a single machine, but I have to believe a snow blade on a loader of some sort would do a pretty good job.
Remember that rubber tracks can also be used with screw in snow studs, easily available, on the internet. Still best to rent before buying...
KSSS, I know you are the skid steer expert so I will address this question to you. Not sure about Koselig's spot in paradise, but Two Harbors and all of the lake shore region of Lake Superior is horrendous sharp shale rock country. A set of log skidder tires will be bald in two years, a set of chain mail chains last about the same. How do CTL tracks hold up in that kind of terrain. I know they have poor traction on ice and hard snow. 90+ percent of the commercial snowplow skid steers here are on rubber with studs.
hey @old-iron-habit in case you know the area, we are up Drummond Grade straight North from Two Harbors. It was a railroad grade between Two Harbors and Tower until the 1930's. Lake Superior highlands, lots of gravel and rock amongst the moraines as opposed to the ledge rock closer to shore. We are near the Superior Hiking Trail and where the John Beargrease Sled Dog Marathon runs. Maple syruping country! you guys are doing a good job talking me out of it but my original thinking is/was that tracks would be best overall considering all seasons (including working in the clay at the lake property near you in Moose Lake).
Tracks might be the best for you. You know your ground best. I just know that country is real hard on wheels and tracks. Log truck tires to.
I have run in shale but it doesn't sound like it was to level that you deal with. I would anticipate that you would see tracks get cut up and wear quickly just like other tires do. Add to that a high horse power track machine with poor operating habits and it would likely be even worse. I have found that tires like the Galaxy Hulk are the best solution for conditions like that. These are L-5 tires, deep tread, but not as many voids as a typical skid steer tread design. So they don't excel in mud, but I have gotten to the point it is the only tire I run now. If I have to run in mud, I chain them (not often that is the case, but I have done it). If it were winter I would chain up the Hulks and the chains will wear but that is the cost of doing business in the Winter. CTL tracks last me about 1000-1200 hours at about $1500 a track the math works for what my rates are. If I wanted to run tracks in conditions like you spec, you likely would be more productive than wheels, you just have to charge enough to replace the tracks faster. Koselig's situation where it is a home owner machine of course you cant charge for the wear, you just need a deeper check book. Being an inexperienced operator, the learning curve would likely be expensive, at least initially.
right on @KSSS . Those tires look cool. What would you suggest as a wheeled unit that has an especially long wheelbase? Something that could be had <1000hr, less than 5 years old, 74hp? Even around the "yard" there are lots of hills, uneven terrain, etc. Something I could haul with an F-350 and stay under 26,000lb, if such a thing exists, would be ideal. But I'm prepared to get a CDL if necessary.
You would have to compare wheel bases of the various machines to know where the math comes out at, but I will give three options. Deere machines have a long wheel base. I have demoed them (been a while) not a personal fan but they are long. Recommending OEMs is really difficult to do without inputting a bias into the recommendations. If you want the most wheel base then you would want a large frame machine that stays under 75 hp. The CASE SV280, Deere 326E and CAT 262D all weigh around 8100 pounds and fit the bill. I would look for ride control as an important option (allows loader arms to act like shock absorbers). Makes operating more comfortable, and in rough terrain, keeps more material in the bucket. You can check the specs on these and others, they all excel in some areas and no so much in others. You just need to decide what specs are important to you. The Case machine has a DOC but no DPF, one less thing to maintain. That is a plus in my book. CAT has a better instrument panel than does the current CASE machine (the newest machine is much better but that is just releasing). I would also look at BC, NH is much like the CASE machine. WN is new to the market but I know it to be a very solid machine. Others may have other recommendations to consider, but look for a large frame machine for the most stability. The market has really turned to these sub 75 hp machines since Tier4f, great alternative if you don't need a 100 hp machine. The CASE website has a really helpful comparison page to easily compare machines.
You have made good arguments in favor of tractors. I don't know how steep the OP's terrain is but if his driveway is like mine, too steep to pull off with any machine, then a skid steer has a distinct advantage over tractors.....it can turn around anywhere and clean out ditches with the machine perpendicular to the road. I have tried to do driveway maintenance with a tractor on steep driveways and it only works where it's wide enough to maneuver them. I found myself having to travel a long distance to a turnaround or switchback to get the tractor turned around. It's best to have both skid steer and compact utility tractor.
I completely agree. The longer I do this, the more I understand how every machine has its purpose. There is always overlap, but it's just hard to do everything with one machine. I have 2 miles of hilly road to maintain and I do just as you stated by cleaning ditches with the skid steer perpendicular to the road. Then I use the tractor with an 8' box blade to cleanup the spoils and windrows. One thing I have learned (and unfortunately have to sometimes "relearn") is that I am not invincible and others may not have the same experience and background I do. All my life, I have been driving 4 wheelers, dirt bikes, etc. all over different kinds of terrain, including off-camber hills. It all builds your experience to know how a particular machine will act over certain terrain. Even still, all it takes is one bad judgement call to change your life forever. Not long after I moved to our ranch, I was driving a tractor back to the house after doing some work. I had my 4 year old son with me on my lap. He wanted me to stop at one of the creek crossings for a minute so when I got to it, I pushed the clutch in and let him hop down. His foot slipped on the the first step and he went face first into the mud and water AND landed right in front of the rear tire. My first instinct was to jump help and help him, but something (I believe God) told me to stay put with that left foot on the clutch. I have replayed that scene over and over a thousand times since and it has significantly changed my behaviors and actions since. It was a tremendously valuable lesson I was able to learn without a severe consequence. Many of us on this site aren't playing in the dirt for a living, we are just trying to live out our dreams and look to the experts on this site for guidance. I don't think any of the recommendations to the OP were bad at all, but when his first sentence was "First things first - I know nothing! I have never operated any heavy equipment except for our antique tractor" we all have an obligation to think back to when we were first learning how to operate machinery and base our advice off of that.
There is a way to have a machine for every purpose, Buy old cheap junk. The disadvantages are you spend almost as much time wrenching as operating, older machines not quite as user friendly and less likely to have heated cab. I retired 20 years ago and my hands are still calloused. Given all the emissions and electronics of newer equipment, I think this is the best way to go. When I sell machines I no longer need, it's always at a profit. A guy with land and little wrenching experience has a much tougher and more expensive decision. I think the closest thing to "one machine to do everything" is still a skid steer. Wheeled ones are cheaper to buy and cheaper to run.
thank you for your account @JBrady - that is an amazing story. I also believe God held your position. I have a back blade for our tractor so I think for running down the road for a grade it still should serve a purpose. But I know enough to know it's not the right tool to manage our ditches, level unstable ground, move piles, or plow snow. I can see how a modern CUT would be even better, but still wouldn't fill the gaps a CTL/skidsteer would on a property like ours. I am indeed looking for the elusive "one machine". I do think for my purposes a modern CTL/skidsteer makes sense despite the maintenance challenges. I am an EE so electronics don't scare me. At this stage in my life I just don't have time to wrench and so I am looking for a reliable machine to just get the jobs done. But I can see the attraction of a 1980's Bobcat or something (we are in Minnesota after all). If I found a deal on one some day I might buy it just for the novelty, but I already have too many hobbies! I waffle constantly on wheeled vs. tracked but at the end of the day I think I have a much bigger chance of getting in trouble on our landscape with a wheeled machine. For what it's worth, I so appreciate everyone's advice. Now it all comes down to budgeting figuring out what I can realistically haul 2-3 times a year. As far as attachments I would rent augers, harley rakes, etc. when needed, and I will probably try to make do with just a bucket for now in the snow. Next I'd probably look at a snow blade, forks, grapple, and eventually a snowblower. Brush cutter would be really nice if I can find one that could handle our landscape for a fair price. Does that sound correct priority-wise?
Second to the bucket, forks are the most useful attachment to have on a skid steer. I have a grapple and had a blade attachment, seldom used either. Snowblowers are extremely expensive and most require high flow hydraulics. I have a 7 1/2 foot snow/mulch bucket and it's handy for clean up after plowing with the truck. Stack snow where you want it, nothing to break.
@check our plow truck (1994 Toyota 4x4) is on its last legs so I'd plan on doing the plowing with this machine. That is why I am thinking of a snow blade. We have a big truck (F350) but it is a 4 door long box and not maneuverable enough to be a practical plow truck for our property. I like the idea of using this machine to plow AND relocate snow, but again it is just intuition and not experience which leads me to this conclusion.
Next to the bucket I use my forks and grapple about equal. I often think about making a set of double grapple arms long enough to use with my 48" forks. The grapple tines are to short for what I want to grab most of the times.
When plowing with a blade, the blade tries to steer for you. Also when plowing, you aren't doing much unless you are moving 20 MPH. Speed and airflow throws the snow. Skid steers top out around 10 MPH. I think you will be a little disappointed. A plow truck ideally should be a 3/4 or one ton 4x4 with a big engine, chains on all four, power steering and automatic transmission. You need the strength of that kind of suspension to support the blade when it's off the ground. It should be at least 8' wide and have hydraulic power angle. The best way to rig a plow truck is buy a truck that already has one mounted and it usually doesn't cost much more than buying a new blade and having it mounted to your truck, My plow truck is dedicated to just that and I leave the chains on all four year round. Easy peasy, no tags no insurance. Toyotas are pretty tough long lasting trucks, you might also consider doctoring it back to life.. Snowblowers are better for deep snows, but if you get a lot of 2 or 3 inch snows like we do here, you probably won't like it. If you use a blower and a plow, you will constantly be connecting and disconnecting (the hydraulic lines can be a pain).
With a 8100 lb. skid steer you would be well under 26,000. A skid steer trailer with tandem 7,000 lb. axles would allow you a empty trailer weight of close to 6,000 lb. without accounting for tongue weight. A nice low, easy to load when slippery, skid steer trailer would be well under that. Your F-350 must be around 8,500 curb weight tops. A new 2020 4 door, 4 wheel drive, gas engine, 8 ft. bed has a curb weight of 8,121 lbs. according to a online site I just checked. You could also add studs in the tracks if traction on ice turns into a problem while plowing snow. take your time to learn the machine and keep us posted with pictures.
Running equipment is inherently dangerous, doesn't matter what kind. My neighbor had one of his operators tip over a 305 Volvo excavator at his sand pit a couple weeks abo. Edge gave way and the excavator was on top of it when it went. Nothing like a 70K pound excavator rolling over. Operator was not hurt. Tractor tip overs are not new and unfortunately will continue. New tractors have a ROPS, but the older and cheaper models don't. SSL and CTLs tend to see more injuries related to operators getting caught under the bucket and running other people over. Its not for everyone, that is for certain. My view is if you come to the 'net seeking advice on machines or operating techniques it is the OP's responsibility to put that information into the context that fits their application and ability. There is no way for anyone here to know the exact conditions the machine is operated, the learning ability of the OP and lets be honest......level of common sense. Posting "I know nothing" maybe a very rough baseline, but is far from a clear definition of ones ability or circumstance. We have all seen that some people can get into a piece of equipment and within hours be able to operate in safe, semi productive manner. We have also seen guys that have one year experience...20 times. The OP and anyone else reading and applying the nuggets of info, has to be responsible for applying it to their situation. As to compact tractors or any tractors: I really like running the newer ones. I grew up farming in North Dakota with my dad on a "for the time" rather large operation. I got into this business due to my love for running equipment based off that experience. I will say that operationally there are few things that a compact loader will do that a SSL or CTL cant do better and certainly faster. Brush hogging and the like are better suited for a tractor in a typical sense, but if we are talking about loader work, it is no contest in my opinion. Its great if you can own both a SSL and loader tractor, most people have to pick. You do that by renting/borrowing to find what works for you personally.
One thing to remember between tracks and tires is when going over hills or climbing out of ditches, etc. A tire machine will keep all 4 wheels on the ground and go over bumps similar to car. A tracked machine will be like a crawler dozer and teeter totter over hills. It will do the same loading on a trailer. It can be a little unnerving until you get used to it.
Thanks all! couple things - Our 1958 Ford 961 Powermaster tractor is in great shape and has its original loader. So I really could use that for hogging. I know I could get a used PTO hog for a lot cheaper than one designed for skid steers. The loader has a trip bucket and needs a hydraulic rebuild, so it's not immediately useful for loading. I have moved pallets with the manure forks and this has demonstrated to us the value that forks would have on a skid loader. I can't see why I wouldn't hang onto the tractor to run a blade, pull a wagon, etc. It's obviously not as handy as a modern CUT but I can't really justify owning both a SSL/CTL and a modern CUT. A neighbor up here has a 1999 ASV 4810, what a beast. That is his primary machine for dealing with snow. According to him it is unstoppable and he hasn't had to touch the undercarriage (or even the tracks!) after years of ownership. This runs contrary to most everything I have heard that these units have such a high cost of ownership, etc. and we're talking about a very early ASV "MTL" suspended design. So for our landscape this bolsters my intuition that a modern fixed-undercarriage CTL with zig-zag or ASV-style track pattern should be pretty darn good for most of the conditions we experience. As far as snows... we get a lot. Our proximity to Lake Superior plus our higher elevation vs. the shore puts us in a very snowy microclimate, even by Minnesota standards. So by and large we're not talking 2-3" snows. I think for that I'd just use our Honda Rancher to plow. @check I totally get what you are saying about plowing fast, that is a really good point. It took a few winters for me to learn that with our truck - at first I was trepidatious and taking my time to learn the craft. Once I gave in, hung the blade at an angle, and went fast it made a huge difference in keeping the driveway wide enough for comfort. So I am not sure where that leaves the blade idea, since obviously I'd be going slow down the driveway. Maybe not so wise. Most of the videos and advice relates to pros clearing parking lots, which is totally completely different from my situation. The driveway runs along streams and ponds, so it is not so practical to run down with a bucket and turn 90deg to dump each time the bucket fills up. But there are a few "run-offs" I could potentially develop further to break it into 3 or 4 segments, to run piles off for each segment. Maybe a good size snow bucket or even a box-style plow would be better given all of this. I was looking at the Virnig V-plows originally.
How many hours a year does he use the ASV? Tires last me about 300-500 hours grinding through the shale here. That adds about $2 an hour operating cost on my 246 skid steer. I've never used an ASV or CTL but guys who have them tell me you just have to figure about $10 an hour extra operating costs for the tracks.
I don't really know, but I believe he uses it primarily in winter. We do get frequent storms, but I bet he gets that sorted within 2-3hr per event. In Spring/Summer we'd be talking relatively hard packed gravel and I don't know how much dirt work he does with it these days. I had another neighbor (retired operator who sold that one the 1999 ASV) comment about his experience with ASV's and a Kubota. He owns one of each. He told me one of those with a snowblower deals with our snow with impunity, and recommended I do the same especially given our narrow driveway vs. a plow. I am going to price out a used snowblower since so many are manufactured right here in MN.
As a newer home owner skid steer owner ill chime in with my thoughts. I have some rugged land in southern Wisconsin. Densely wooded. Drive is about 3/8 mile. Some minor grade changes. But the initial stretch is pretty nasty. Peaks at a small section of about 11% grade. I put down over 200 ton of 3" limestone with fines over the summer to keep it stable. This weekend was the first opportunity I had to mount my plow and clean it out. Granted my aux hydraulic were not working ( seperate post ) but the plow still worked. My first thoughts, track is not ideal for snow. I had to pay attention not to spin the track on compacted snow. Just lining up to my plow took 10 minutes as I would slide sideways. Once I got the hang of it. And made sure to start out extremely slow, I was fine. I made sure to scrape all the way to the frozen stone. And that gave me traction. Cost of ownership hasn't been bad. But in reality I've put maybe 120 really easy hours on. Nothing compared to the work out machines see at work. The material on my site it sand, loam and small wash stone. The 3" I've imported is the worst it will see. But based on the back and forth I've watched on here, your best bet is getting some seat time in a variety of machines. Gauge your comfort and skill levels. The comments on here are also valid. A track machine can go bad fast. But So can any other. Whatever you get. Have some cash in reserve. Something will come up. It always does. Should have added. I've got a new holland c238
I wanted to update. So we finally got some ice on the ground That is sticking around. Ice + hill + tracks= no good. I have to bring in some small material to put down in front of me just to get back up. Now I know. I'll be cutting in a far less steep drive in the spring.
I've done this, for your use go with wheels. I tried the exact same thing with a bobcat t300... Plows great the first couple snowfalls then it ices up and they're almost useless. I studded tracks, did everything possible. Still useless. Get yourself a nice big 2 speed wheeled machine and some chains. The bigger the better for the type of plowing you'll be doing. Track machines chew through Undercarriage, they're bumpy, not as fast, and believe me, I loved that t300 for its performance in soft ground and stability. If I was to buy another skidsteer, unless you have specific jobs that you need a track machine... Don't bother.
Oh I missed this post... I see you've already figured it out.
koselig, There is an interesting discussion that gets into comparing tracked units vs wheeled units in the snow. Since one of your primary uses is snow removal, it is worth a read. HeavyEquipmentForums It may be difficult to get both “good winter traction for plowing hills” and “low ground pressure in the summer for wet ground conditions” all in one machine. I too was considering a tracked unit when I recently upgraded my skid steer but decided against it after reading about the higher repair and maintenance cost of a tracked unit and the questionable winter traction even when used “winter” tracks. Admittedly, I don’t have soft summer ground conditions to deal with, so my choice of a “farm / hobby” machine was easier.
This is a great thread to read... thanks for all of the insights. I am just a few hours away in Minnesota, just down I35 near Pine City and (was) also in almost the same situation as the OP although I don't really have inclines to deal with... I do have substantial low areas that are frequently soggy. But other than that the snow removal as well as general forestry and construction use is what I am doing. So with that I ended up finding a used Cat 257B3 with 2400 hrs from a twin cities landscaper. Have had the machine about a month now, so far so good, appears well maintained and undercarriages and tracks are nearly new. Only issue with it is that it doesnt look all that great - the paint sucks, it is fairly rusty from being used as the landscaper's snow mover. I'll probably put 50 hrs a year on the machine so really hoping I can cover all the maintenance on it myself...Cat sure is proud of their parts and service based on looking at what it costs.
Hey all - wow what a trip this year has been. We're still working on finishing our house - wow winter is coming - but I'm back to sorting this out. I am going to give away the old Toyota 4x4 plow truck (which has been awesome and cost us $0) and figure out what is next for this. Now that the house is close to done we're thinking a lot more about land management, getting the orchard restored, getting a big garden in, reclaiming overgrown land, etc. So we definitely have a 50/50 or so split between warm- and cold-weather needs. I might even lean more toward warm weather. It's really overgrown here. Originally homesteaded in 1924. With the 0% 60mo financing I am thinking of getting a new Kubota SVL75-2 with high flow and 14-pin. I wonder how the "new" track style would run on our driveway in the snow? This year I probably won't have budget for a snowblower attachment, so I'd be plowing either with the bucket, or with a blade. I don't want to put studs on the tracks because I want to be able to park in the garage. Do you think I'm nuts? Cheers! Patrick
Awesome! So you've got a Cat with the ASV undercarriage. We have an old family lake place (1935 log cabin) near Moose Lake, so not too far from you. How do you like the machine now?
Hi Patrick, machine has been good so far - just minor things to fix. I have done some excavating and leveling out of a foundation pad for a floating garage slab. Being that this year has been relatively dry I have not really pushed it as far as getting it stuck. Feels like it would take driving it into a swamp to really bury it. I bought a Jenkins stump grapple mainly for rock picking which works great and also bought an old western 7' blade on a quick attach plate and replaced the hydraulics, looking forward to plowing with it.
Cool! I have been talking with the dealer about having winter tracks installed (the "OEM" Kubota 15.5" wide zigzags) but I am a little trepidatious. I'd end up with dirt bucket, snow bucket, and pallet forks at first, then look for a used snowblower next year. Definitely need stump/rock grapple and rough cut mower of some sort.
Just wondering how you are making out with your new machine now that we have had a wee bit of snow and ice.
I'll add another note going into winter 2. As long as I get down to base gravel when scraping snow out, I am far better off. I also got a new truck this spring, the tires on it can't even get me in the gate. So I walk in. Grab the track machine and clean out well. Worth noting. I did bring out a dozer in the spring and cut down the worst sections of the drive. I had some 12-14% spots, all cut to below 9%. Knock on wood, but the tracks have done fine so far.
Question for you Cat skid steer guys. A few weeks ago a coffee shop friend called and asked if I could help get his stuck Cat skid steer out. He had slid off his narrow built up road into a bog between two steep tree covered slopes. I took my 1 ton truck with a 12,000 lb winch and two parted the line for more power and a slower retrieve. His skid steer was setting with one side was on the road, the other in the swamp. He was leaning heavily. Setting further up the hill. I chained my hitch to a tree. I hooked to his downhill side to help turn the lower end to the road. He had a 16 inch tree 6 ft behind him and no way for me to get to the front of him. I started pulling him and asked him to just give me a bit of power to the lower track, but not to spin it. He would engage it easily and it would fully engage and do nothing but spin. He would feather the upper track and it would engage and back him up turning him back into the swamp. He said that with the pilot controls he could not finesse the amount of pull. Don't make no sense at all to me. It seems to drive fine on hard ground. Are the Cat controls that insensitive that you can't control the spin in low traction conditions? It would scare me to death on snow. Not sure if he was giving it to much or if there is an issue with his machine. I did get him out by by running a chain around his lower side in the mud and hooking my snatch block to that sliding the lower side around the tree to the point that both sides grabbed a bit of traction and crawled back onto the road.
Hi there, the SVL75-2 has been really great. I ended up with a "Kubota" snowblower, 74" smooth bucket, and Virnig forks. Everything extremely useful. I am never worried about slipping or sliding on the driveway, probably thanks in part to snow tracks. These tracks do dig up the grass so I did some damage when moving a wood stove around the yard. More than anything, the snowblower took some getting used to. I am not great at grading the driveway with the smooth bucket. This was a great purchase for managing our property. I'm now potentially looking at a power rake, brush mower, and skeleton grapple. Thanks for all your help!
So you got a svl75? I bought a new a couple years ago. one thing, put some foam tape on cab filter housing. The hard rubber on the filter will not seal. Kubota parts diagram even show foam tape on the housing, they even have a part number for it. Just amazing the machines dont come with it. It would cut down on a lot of the ac problems the svl’s seem to have.
Oh that is good to know! I am now looking at acquiring some attachments from Jenkins (Long Prairie, MN): Skeleton Grapple (74") Brush Mower (6') Power Rake (6') We are working on expanding our open land somewhat for orchard/food forest, and I am going to try to cut some swales and berms. Also a LOT of logs to haul. Should be fun!
To me, cutting swales, berms, ditches, dikes, or whatever your part of the country calls them, is one of the few things I'd prefer a different machine over a skid steer or CTL. You either have to make the berm perpendicular to the direction of the berm which requires tons of short turns, have a tilting quick attach or dozer blade (both are expensive), or have some other way to get your bucket to tilt. I'd take an angle blade on an old farm tractor's 3 point any day for this type of work.
Cut swales with track loaders long ago, 955s, Deere 555s, cut first angle of banks driving straight in for a few entries then set machine In the Ditch and cut bank slopes moving along ditch, load bucket and set to high side, repeat, clean up edge spoil piles as got any reasonable length completed.
Also, a 2-way blade on a skidloader becomes a PAT blade when you figure in bucket curl and roll. Easy as a bulldozer, quicker turn arounds and lighter to haul...
I’ve wondered how good a dozer blade would work on an svl75 size machine. The main thing I’m using my svl75 for right now is building and maintaining a small motor cross track. Small, because it takes a wile stockpiling dirt.
Unless running a Belly Pan or tandem High side Dump truck dirt will be a slow process move.
I am considering a 96" Jenkins dozer blade as well, their prices seem reasonable compared to what the online carriers offer. I also looked at cmp attachments in clear lake but they are way overpriced in comparison to Jenkins last time I checked. The rocking/bouncing from front to back can cause dips so you have to go slow and steady for a smooth surface but counter weights, creep/crawl modes, and a good operator help. I've only seen the 100hp machines use them so results may vary with 75hp.
Rocking/bouncing (and me being a novice) gave our ~1/3mi driveway a very 'humpy' grade. I am hoping I can smooth it out with the power rake once I have it here, since I'll have a 'longer wheelbase' to even things out. I just need more experience with grading!