Hello everyone, I want to thank you ahead of time for any help. I have a '1960 something' Hough H60 straight frame wheel loader cummins diesel. i have several manuals as well. the problem is removing the hydraulic pump. The seal on the hydraulic pump is leaking. And I want to have it rebuilt. I have the hydraulic lines disconnected, and the pump unbolted. The problem I am having is separating the pump from the converter housing. I've tried prying it apart for hours with no luck other than it separating about an 1/8". (The pump housing will turn from side to side, but not turn fully around, if this helps) I would like to know if there is a retaining clip holding the shaft inside from sliding out? Or is it pressed into the housing? How do I go about separating the pump from the converter housing? Any information will be greatly appreciated. From what the diagram shows in the manual, it is a straight shaft with a shear key.
Never worked on a baby Hough, smallest I dealt with was a 90. Along with 100's, 120's, 400's, and 560's. One of the worst problems I recall is getting pump off. All the ones I dealt with had splined shafts into the back of the converter. The problem is for some unknown reason the engineer that designed this set up thought it was a good idea to plug off the hole in the drive gear and let the splines work dry. Problem is there are slots in the adapter to let oil leak out if the seal on the converter or pump should fail. What causes the problem is water can get in through these slots and the slight working of the male and female splines causes fretting which turns to a rusty paste that locks the shaft into the drive gear. Now all that doesn't help you get the pump of does it! One thing you can try is if you can see the slots in the mounting adapter I think you might have is to spray some penetrating oil in there several times over a few days in hopes that it will soften the rusty paste. Even an oil can with fuel oil in it would help. Not sure how much room you have to work with but one option is to disassemble the pump as much as possible in place. Does the pump say Vickers on the end casting? That was the most common pump used on the older Houghs. I'll guess that is what you have. I picture an end cap held on with four 3/8 bolts. With those out the cover should slide off and the smaller section of the pump should come out. Next I see four larger bolts maybe as big as 5/8 inch holding the main section to the drive end. This section is a bit on the heavy side so be careful. If you have got to this point and my memory is right you should have a shaft and the two bolt flange housing that one of the hydraulic lines was fastened to still in place. Like I said it's been a few years. But I believe in this housing you should be able to see the ball bearing that supports the shaft. I seem to recall that there is a snap ring around the shaft holding the bearing in place. If I'm right you should be able to remove this snap ring and with a little prying get the housing and bearing to slide off leaving the shaft in place. I know you still need to get the shaft out but at least you have a better shot with the penetrating spray and can tap and wiggle the shaft from side to side to get it to loosen up. If you can post a picture of the pump or even the page out of the parts book I may be better able to suggest other ideas.
Here is a picture of the pump (break-down) Torque converter housing, accessory drive housing Boom and bucket lines. With reservoir and pump and valves The pump does have a rear cover that bolts on. If I spray penetrating fluid in the pump area will it harm the inside of the converter housing or pump? I was thinking of using some, even though there is really no room to spray into the crack between pump and housing. (1/8") I will keep prying on the pump and trying to loosen it. I was wondering if prying on it too much will ruin the gear inside the housing or the shaft on the pump. Thanks for the advise
That is a Vickers pump like I was expecting. Something like WD40 should not cause any problems. I see the picture of the pump does show a key but as it is not flagged with a item number I think Hough just used a generic Vickers drawing I'm sure yours is a splined shaft. As long as You don't go at it with a ten pound sledge hammer or ten foot pry bar you should not hurt any thing. Item number 29 in the pump drawing is the snap ring I was mentioning. If nothing else work if there is room enough you could attack it one part at a time in place and when you get to where you see this ring remove it and then with some careful prying work the end housing item #35 off and then have much better access to the shaft to soak with penetrating oil. Like a guy I worked with for years said, "Remember you are smarter than that hunk of iron."
What about leaving the bolts in place just loose so it can move another 1/4" back, tapping in some wood shims to apply force to pull it, and then starting it up? just don't touch the handles and you may want it to be warmed up already for less load on the pump. Since I've already made that crazy suggestion, whenever I'm trying to get something loose that's rusty, but not yet oily, I use water. If you have a drain at the bottom of that converter housing, I'd start it up like I said above and spray a garden hose inside of that converter housing, and keep tapping those shims until it's loose. Of course you want to be real sure the gear won't go haywire if the pump shaft comes loose while it's running.
Problem I see with that is you would be running the hydraulic pump dry. Vickers pumps don't like that! I don't think it is possible to leave the lines hooked up as I believe the inlet to the pump is a very short pipe with just a rubber doughnut sealing it to the pipe out of the hyd. tank. I could see this as a possibility if the inlet and outlet were hoses that allowed some movement. There is an oil seal around the gear in the converter that drives this pump so nothing in the converter can reach the splines. Also as the pump seal is what is leaking it is probably too late for water. From past experience with this set up on larger Houghs I believe the splines are worn forming a step in them and the rust from the fretting action is holding them in place. That's why I like the idea of disassembling the pump to the bare shaft allowing you to work the shaft around while flushing out the rusty paste. I recall trying to get a pump off a Hough that we were pulling the converter anyhow so we left pump on and disassembled the converter with pump in place. Then when we had access to the welch plug sealing the inside of the gear splines we took it out and supported the converter housing with a shop crane and filled the splined area with penetrating oil and left set over night. Next morning the pump actually fell out when housing with gear in it was lifted.
Thanks for the explanation, and experience.
Ok everyone. So I still have the same problem. I disassembled the pump while it is still Attached to the machine. I took the pump apart from the back. The only thing remaining is the very front of the pump and the shaft. I can't get the front of the pump to slide over the shaft nor can I remove the shaft nor am I able to spray any penetrating oil at the end of the shaft because it sits to far in. I'm sure the front of the pump is only removable from the shaft one way. I can not get it to slide over the shafts rear end like the rest of the pump did. I have not started the loader since I disassembled the pump. Is it safe to start the loader? And should I get like a 10 ton hydraulic puller and try to pull the rest of the hydraulic pump off? Or should I use a 8' pry bar or metal shims and work it loose? The reason I'm rebuilding the pump seals was because hydraulic fluid was leaking from the torque converter housing/hydraulic pump connection. And since it is apart, I replaced every hose, sanded down the hard steel lines and repainted, and also sanded and painted the hydraulic reservoir tank. I just want the hydraulic system to be in good shape. The rams and seals are very good condition. And I already fixed a seal on the valve body. So this pump is the last piece of the system and winter is almost here. Again, thanks for any advice and for all your intellect. Greatly appreciated.
Did you get the snap ring off the shaft that holds the bearing to the shaft? It would be item # 29 in the picture on the first page of you attached picture.
That shaft is about $75-100 so I wouldn't worry about damagin it
I didn't try to remove the snap ring. I will look into this weekend. Thank you for the advice
It has been forever since I've been forced to work on a Hough but I seem to remember the drive gears were held onto the splined shaft with a retaining nut. I also seem to remember an adapter plate that fit into the torque converter housing and the pump bolting onto that. To get the pump out you had to take the adapter housing and pump out together and then remove the gear. The adapter housing then came off and you could tear down the pump. Then again most of my Hough experience is out in the fog of time. Good Luck!
There is an adapter housing. The adapter housing is bolted to the torque converter housing. The end of the hydraulic pump is unbolted to the adapter housing, but the adapter housing is still bolted to the torque converter housing. Also, the hydraulic pump is able to turn freely about an inch in either direction, but unable to slide out. I was going to attempt to pry/pull (separate) the hydraulic pump from the adapter housing. Will this damage anything? The bolts that hold the adapter to the torque converter housing will not back out because they will hit the hydraulic pump. Also, I cannot get any tool onto the bolts that hold the adapter to the converter housing. Does the adapter housing have to be unbolted in order to remove the hydraulic pump? And also what gear are you referring to, is it a gear that is attached the the hydraulic pump shaft that is located within the torque converter housing? I am willing to try anything. I don't mind paying someone to do the job or help, my local equipment shop is backed up and busy and they can't get to me for a while, unless I take the machine to them, which I can't at this moment. Thanks again. Any info will be appreciated for me to try this weekend.
I know this is an old post but im also looking for hydro pump knowledge. Hopefully someobe can chime in. Il looking to add aux hydraulics to my hough h60e. Just curious if anyone has ever done it, or knows how? The 3 manuals i have didnt help me atall.