Obviously, this question won't relly be pertainent to some of our members from the more tropical climates, but this week it sure seems pertainent to me--Do you have any sort of standard as to how cold is too cold to work? Last night the low temp here was forecast to be 7 degrees, and the high was forecast to be 18. The actual temps recorded were a low of 12 and a high of 20. For the snowplowing, and coincidentally snow shovelling, that I'm involved with, the contracts have language that reserve the right to pull off the job if wind chills are below zero, although I don't recall that ever having been done. I once worked for an excavating contractor who had a rule that if it got below 10 overnight, and it wasn't forecast to be above 20, it was too cold to work that day. Today's forecast weather would've met that standard, although the actual conditions turned out to be better. What I had to do today concerned a mudslide that was threatening to involve the driveway, and the underground electrical service, of a *big* (read: "awfully expensive"), house we worked on a couple years ago, and it was going to be done no matter what the temperature. Given my choice, and the forecast, I'd have probably found some inside work to do instead. Do any of you have a "standard" for what's "too cold" to work?
I worked for a week straight when temps were in the teens, and did sidewalk snow removal at -12. I didn't like it, but it pays the bills. My regular work gets shut down when there's frost in the ground and my materials freeze up. This year it happened the last week of November. I personally can cope with temps down to about 20, but below that my extremities just won't stay warm, no matter what I do.
I spent my day outside bolting a radiator in Indots loader and installing a quick coupler on a excavator........... was -5 this morning and got to a high of 24
Well I look at it like this if it's that cold and you are forced to work outside I belive that the job done will not be the best because you will rush to try to do it faster to get it done quicker .Plus the fact that your hands ,face and anything else will be frozen solid is a motivator for me not to stay out long.
Depends on what you are doing . As a finish grader operator , I spend most of my days building roads . Up here in Alberta , this is concidered seasonal work because once you can't add moisture to get compaction densities ( when water freezes ) , or the frost starts to get lower then a few inches , it's time to shut things down and wait for spring . Last season , 2003 , ended for us around the beginning of November . But ..... I've also worked piling up snow in a open cab D7 up in the northern part of the province in minus 55 degrees celsius . For the typical snow removal job , we never shut down for the cold . Just keep layering on the woolies . Rob
I don't ever remember going home because it was "too cold". It seems like there was always something to do whatever the weather,I should say temperature....I do go home sometimes if it rains...again,depends on what I am doing...I have spread topsoil in the rain if we are real busy. I find that the building dept. of most towns dictate how cold it can be depending on what you are doing....you have to protect the soil from freezing if you are digging a footing and you hardly ever dig an house footing and pour it the same day so that means straw to spread at night or insulating blankets nowadays,still a PITA as far as I am concerned. I remember the first year I worked for the company that owned that Case W20 I told you about....we plowed snow in the winter like many construction companies do...well..being an operator of course I got to run the loader.The job I plowed was a big shopping plaza...well,the loader had no heater that first year and I had to scrape the inside of the windows to see out!!! I do remember going home one day when it was too windy to dump the dump trailer I was driving and it was a 23' Freuhauf,one of the shorter dump trailers.......some of those guys are 32' tubs and more even. Ron
The contractor I referred to earlier was doing water and sewer line work, so beyond having to break through the frost to dig the trenches the cold didn't impact the actual work too much. They were thinking more about the laborers having to be outside in that temperature all day. If it was -5 to start but going to 24, like motrack mentioned, that would've been ok. The logic was that by lunchtime or so it would've gotten close to 20, and been that warm or warmer the rest of the day. It was those days that it was never going to get into the twenties at all that they'd stay home. I loaded snow all night once in my 580 with an open ROPS. It was one of those single digit low temperature nights. Around 5 a.m. it got up to around 15, and I swear I could feel that it was warmer.
funny topic . we currently have 15 scrappers sitting waiting on weather.. we took 3 weeks off for xmas and new years was suppose to go back jan 5th. lime was suppose to start jan 6th but so far its been to warm to work.. it rained here for 4 days straigh and hasnt got cold enuff to freeze and stay frozen.. so were sittin at home praying for cold weather how ironic is that .. normally ur sittin at home waiting on warm weather.. so if it dont get cold soon i may have to find work.. .. and its wrong time of year for that .. guess i can always bartend again.. or find a rich older women who wants to be my sugar momma.. lol
hey Payton.......you been working on the Indy airport project if I remember correctly. Seen a couple of machines playing there tuesday as I drove by.
Ime in Arkansaw(southern USA) so it doesnt get that cold but sometimes it will snow a little every now and then) But ive always looked at it this way.........If the diesel engines turn over in the morning were running that day no matter what.
As one of the members from a sub-tropical region, who spent his early years in the tropics, My standard is: If it's below 50, I don't wanna! However, I work in anything we get, low teens some every winter. In 1984 we had our record lowest temp ever, 4 degrees farenheit. I fought fire all night, even crawling through water. When I finished, it took 2 guys to pull my turnout gear off me.
I work as a free lance Mechanic in the U.K., this last winter was a fair Dog for cold temps, as near all my work is outside, I give it a miss at about -17/18c as its to cold to realy function with any desire, you find it takes 2 hours to do something that should take a few moments.
For me it used to be 15 degrees F. Than it got to 20 degrees F. Now, I just pretty much shut it down in the winter. We have also been getting considerably more snow in the winter the last four years which adds to the degree of difficulity.
When grandpa says it's comfortable...too cold for me. :tong
cold temps for us it doesn't much matter. sometimes -25f. it sure is not fun and our mechanic hates us during these cold snaps but if there is work that has to be done..ok! the productivity goes way down and everyone moans and groans but getting that paycheck and making payments is the bottom line. regards, cd
CD i hope you've had that pic stockpiled for thread like this, otherwise it's time to move. :lmao 100 degrees today in Carbondale, KS. Wouldn't barely have to change your business cards.
kansas? awe, come on heavy. but is there any work out there? and can i get $150 hr on my 210's? cd
were working in gradner kansas right now, have 3 million yards of dirt and a million yards of rock to move by next spring, also have another job goin up for bed in november and is 800000 yards
Y'all are working on the BNSF intermodal yard then? Don't know about Carbondale, but Lawrence hasn't slowed down much. Probably not a good time to try to break-in though.
yeah we were working there, got all the dirt moved in 6 months now there just placing rock and stockpiling rock to be crushed
Really cold We work when the phone rings we dont go buy the thermometer we have turned the keys at negitive 29 below ,we have ripped 4 feet of frost to get footings in not fun but I make sure its a open check book job.
My personal lowest working temp was Big Sky, MT at minus 43. Ground heaters made it possible if not ridiculous, but you turn wheels when you can.
I thought thats why they put trapdoors in longjohns.... so you could crawl in em in the fall, out of em in the spring and eject any litter that might collect in there during that period.. bwah ha hahhahah, too cold? ha hah hahhaa ah ef ef ef http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/January_17_1982_Highs_and_Lows.png
Granpa, if you look on your graphic, you'll see that not far from me it was 55/24. That's too cold for me to be happy, but I have fought fire laying in the water during the coldest temp we've had here in many years, 4 farenheit.
I can always warm up if cold but if the temp is above 80 it is time to call it a day and go fishing.
If the trucks and shovels are working then we are working .. Regardless .. be it we work on a Out in the cold, back in the truck ratio Am confuzzed with the temps .. -25f ? Then theres a How hot before you dont work thread in the making Try 30 - 35C + 100% humidity .. Theres no getting away from it .. When its -30C you can always pull the Tough Duck jacket on. No way to escape the heat.
Yup, agree with you guys on the heat,,, grampa can always put on more clothes to stay warm, but if he starts taking clothes off,,, well it just aint a pretty thing.,
Yeah, but you don't have to shovel heat....:cool2
You dont have to shovel snow either. Thats what the plow is for
If its below freezing we don't work. Even if you wanted to it would take 3+hrs to get there on side streets. Since all our freeway have tons of overpasses and there solid ice.
In Winnipeg Manitoba Canada we have ten months of winter and two months of poor sledding. I've worked on -60 C with the wind chill factor and driven truck in howling whiteout blizzards with ice packed roads. It needs to be done so we do it, only have one choice do it. Tomorrow will be the same great weather. Welcome to Winterpeg!
I had 18 months in Siberia on the open-pit coal mines. We used to park up machinery when the temperature hit -45C (-49F) because below that temperature steel does weird & not-so-wonderful things. That was still air temperature not including wind-chill though. Like Ross says the heat, or more specifically the humidity, is what kills you. Summer temperatures here will be above 30C 24 hours/day and humidity over 90% for maybe 3 months continuously. The sweat just drips off you. Yesterday was January 1st and had my traditional New Year's Day dip in the Caribbean ........ not much wrong with that.
Aye the cold can effect equipment real bad .. Cummins power machines fair better as it pumps hot fuel back to the tank .. Some of the cat gear sufferes from Fuel Gelling .. Detriots aleft running regarless as they light up on you when over fueling cold .. The good thing about real cold is its real real dry here .. Great for air systems .. Its worse at -5 as everything freezes .. BUT: The Tropics are the worse eh Nige, Sitting between the banks of a C32 thats showing 89C on the coolant gauge and its smoking hot out with the humidity .. Ciggy box just falling apart and having to dry the cell phone out after a stint in the pit ... I remember doing a valve set on a C11 and I must have dropped a 1/2 ltr of sweat into the rocker box .. (Made a Mental note to ignore that next engine oil sample )
Not in love with temps below 0 , but will never quit because of temperature .
as i look out at a termometer reading -3, heading to -10 overnight prolly, I think i'm calling off tomorrow. Its work that don't have to be done, and that cold is hard on things. If someone was out of water or something, I'd be out right now. Once -15 is hit, it better be a well paying emergency, thats when steel starts snapping, nothing wants to start, fuel wants to gel... and othe bad stuff.
In the real cold conditions we used to use a refined #1 diesel fuel (as opposed to most #1 diesel which is #2 cut with kerosene) but even that didn't prevent fuel waxing in some extreme circumstances.
Nige, What ratio of kerosene/diesel fuel mixture did you achieve your best results ? Also what was temperature when you needed to add the kerosene ?
I seem to recall it was a 25% kerosene/75% #2 blend that we used. However it was supplied to us ready-blended by our fuel company. so I would not guarantee those numbers 100%. We were using the fuel when the ambient temperature consistently went below -10C (14F). Honestly my preference (although it's more expensive) is for using a properly refined #1 diesel fuel rather than a blend of 2 existing products. The reason for this is that to produce a #1 diesel fuel the fuel company removes a large part of the wax products from a #2 diesel fuel, whereas adding kerosene only removes the wax from the pecentage of #2 diesel fuel in the blend that is replaced by the kerosene. All this afrects the "Cloud Point" of the fuel. See below for a long-winded explanation ........ Cloud Point - It is important to understand that the cloud point of a fuel is different from the pour point. There is no relationship between cloud point and the pour point. The cloud point is the temperature that allows some of the heavier components in the wax to solidify in the fuel. This wax is not a contaminant in the fuel. The wax is an important element of No. 2 diesel fuel. The wax has a high fuel energy content and the wax has a very high cetane value. Removal of the heavier wax lowers the cloud point of the fuel and also reduces the amount of energy that can be obtained from the fuel. Removal of the wax also increases the cost because less fuel can be made from the same amount of crude oil. The cloud point of the fuel is important because the cloud point can limit the performance of the fuel filter. The wax will alter the fuel characteristics in cold weather. Solid wax can fill the fuel filters and will stop the flow of fuel. You can lower the cloud point of a diesel fuel by mixing it with a different fuel that has a lower cloud point. No. 1 diesel fuel or kerosene may be used to lower the cloud point of a diesel fuel. The efficiency of this method is not good, because the ratio of the mixture does not have a direct relation to the improvement in cloud point. The amount of fuel with low cloud point that is required makes the process less preferable to use. The following illustration contains a table that can be used to find the necessary mixture for two fuels with different cloud points. In order to use the table, you must know the exact fuel cloud point of each fuel. This specification can change from one purchase of fuel to the next purchase of fuel. This specification is normally available from personnel at the source of the fuel supply. When fuels that have a lower cloud point are not available, this method cannot be used. Here's how to read the chart. Find out the cloud point of the 2 fuels you plan to use in your blend. Draw a line from one to the other - Line A. Take the % of lighter fuel in the blend from the scale at the bottom of the chart and draw a vertical line (Line B) up until it hits line A. From the point where the 2 lines hit one another read horizontally to your left - Line C. This is the Cloud Point of your blend.
When I was testing a tree harvester for Clark in Northern Ontario, union tree cutters didn't work if it went below -55 Deg F. We didn't go by those rules.
looks like i am mixing a little fuel today. or maybe just add some "power service" . we are starting a week of sub 0 weather today.
There is how inept we are when it comes to cold. When it gets close to freezing it is our company policy to park our equipment with the radiators away from the wind. I have explained to them several times wind chill has no affect on non living objects. They just won't hear it....
Thats pretty funny. Well if your equipment could speak I am sure it would say thank you.
how cold?? if we can't get the tractors to start we usaully spend the day getting them to start. then let em run till the next day. it really might get to -20f here at the worst. if we are busy then we work. if not, we sit in the shop and burn wood and organize. regards, cd
I usually let the quality of the product (work) dictate. If I must use a fill material, and said fill requires moisture to meet specified compaction, this obviously can be hard to achieve when the temps get below zero. Even if below freezing one must take measures to reduce or eliminate the required water, and delivery apparatice, from freezing. The next consideration is how long it will take to get things up and running. If it takes too long than you reach the point of diminishing returns. Deadlines will have a major impact on how far one will go to push through. CD points out a good strategy. I have never had to impliment this one, I know of others who have, but if I had to the type of work we could perform would be limited. If performing subgrade prep one could possibly change the specified material, if permitted, to a screened rock if it is still dry.
I'm working in Northern British Columbia right now, and we don't tend to shut down for cold temperatures very often. That being said, our manuals usually state not to run diesel powered equipment below -35*C or -40*C due to how hard it is on everything. If it's that cold it's a heck of a time getting hydrolic oil to heat up (unless you're working your equipment hard), lines tend to crack and seals go. Not to mention, the heater in the cab struggles to keep the operator warm enough. If it get's THAT cold, we keep our equipment idle all night, even with no night shift or else we'd be coaxing all the equip the next morning with ether. During the day we turn our auto-idlers off and keep our throttles turned up in the exci's. The REALLY big diggers at the mines here have generator powered heaters that keep everything warm enough to start at any time. Around here we tend to work with a lot of rock, so material doesn't really dictate too much what we do at low temps. That being said, we don't usually build main roads because if you've ever seen one built in winter with temps this low... it's usually a disaster come spring time. Frost a few meters deep is aweful when it melts.
Funny here most of the Unions dictate indirectly what our working temps are. But I have to admit other times it is a pain on the small jobs and you are expected to get compaction. You know the machines at packing as best they can the cold material but it won 't be good in two months when it warms up.
I don't like running the equipment when it gets passed -40 if it's -38 and colder I send my guys home