Saw this thread on Reddit earlier today: https://www.reddit.com/r/heavyequip...rica_is_short_73000_mechanics_whats_going_on/ Some of the common points: - Wages are unfair / haven't been growing despite inflation - The work is back breaking and the machines are getting more complicated - The career path doesn't give back to you enough, if you're good go become an operator instead - Tools costs are getting expensive - The younger generation doesn't want to do this work. The best mechanics are aging out. Kind of ******. Everyone is busy right now and machine downtime is going to kill us.
It will get worse. For years kids have been told they need a college education to have a decent lifestyle. ......and blue collar work was for poor people. Hell, I make more than alot of college educated people
Fix it? Buy more **** from China and throw it away when it breaks.
Is that the game these days?
bad game, but appears so
From my perspective and what my boss is doing now before I retire in 2023. Boss knows he can't find anybody to take my place-{although I don't know how hard he's looked}. What he has said to me--{I wish you were 40 years old or I could clone you-{the world doesn't need another me to contend with}-I know I can't find someone who can manage a shop, take care of all paper work involved, control all aspects of work including buying tires, parts inventory, keep in his head all the upcoming things required in services, brakes, suspension, refer work , fabrication and operating the tow truck safely plus your knowledge in transmission and engines. Which was nice to hear. So starting a month ago he gave the ok for a 6 million dollar truck shop and yard {which is being built right now} with 6 bays-three drive through. He has signed a contract with Penske, They will rent 4 of the bays for their work and will supply 4 mechanics just for his trucks in the other two bays. Penske will take care of all Freightliner warranty work, services, refer work. He asked me to stay on at this shop here and do long term repairs and fab/welding work that needs done and run the tow truck till I retire. After I'm gone he will sell the tow truck-and never personally employ any mechanics leaving the whole thing to Penske to do the repairs and provide the mechanics. I see problems with going that route but it's his money his decision. Company mechanics tend to have a vested interest in the company they work for, at least it's been that way with me. I treated his equipment as if it were my own. And that won't happen after I'm gone. I will have 49 plus years working the floor on my last day.
2 of the greatest cons perpetrated by the education system are making kids think they are better than actually are and indoctrinating them into what to think. More than anything we have a shortage of young critical thinkers. The art of improvising in order to get a machine working has long gone even if it's a temporary fix until the proper parts arrive.
Well my last boss stopped by this afternoon to drop off some 1/8 inch plate for me to patch the mower deck on my old Farmall. He said he has six days left before he leaves the company. He has been asking for help in the management area of the company for close to 10 years. Just a few days after he gave them his final notice they came up with two people to take his place! I asked him how the new mechanic that was hired last year is working out. He only said that he has been spending many days taking one of the rear wheels off a Cat 769 to fix a problem with wheel studs or something. I mentioned that those were kind of a big job but he responded that this mechanic had just had that wheel apart a couple month ago working with the dealers mechanic. He felt it should be fresh in his mind how to do the job! I did not want to rub salt into the wound but was wondering if it had been apart a few weeks before why it needed to come apart now. Did someone miss something during the last repair? I could probably look in old records I have at home to find when I had one of them apart but know it was probably several years before I retired. Definitely should have a failure again in the same season if there was not a major mistake made!
One of the cranes has a push pull cable that shifts the two speed aux. box. Push pull is bad, so I sent my young guy mechanic to get a new one made. We made a lock bar to put in its place, locking the box in direct so we could still use the crane. Just wouldn't have low. Well the one truck parts place that used to make them local, don't make them anymore local (local is a hour away), so truck parts place sends it to a different location of theirs. 3 days later its back, and its a inch too long. Young guy "well lets just send it back and they can make it right". (he would have to make 4 hour long trips to deliver and return with the new one, plus 3-4 days in shipping/ assembly) Me "the odds of them doing any better than they made this one are slim, so lets just modify some mounts and make this work". Looked at aux. box, nigh unto impossible to pull mount without dropping box, and drivelines. Looked at the other end and made a plan. We pulled the hand lever in the cab, welded a 1 1/2" riser on it, and then bolted it all up. He's (young mechanic) currently in a diesel tech program. And the tech program has actually been pretty good, in giving him a grasp of the fundamentals of systems. But they really don't teach "improvise, adapt, and overcome". Its more of a "call the dealer, receive and replace the assembly". The young guy is really green yet, and he's made some mistakes, but we were all there at one time, and he's learning. Its just hard to teach the "we've got a welder, a torch, and a bunch of tools in this shop, what can we do with what we've got here, to get this machine running". I don't think the current generation of young guys is particularly any less useless than I was at their age. I know I did plenty of dumb stuff, and probably had a few mornings that I was wishing I hadn't been out quite so late the night before. I think the current education environment doesn't do them any favors, but when I was in high school 30 plus years ago- they didn't push trades much then either, "you need college". But frankly, it was 75 deg. and sunny today, and I was outside in it all day, building a little slice of america. And if its a choice between that, and spending a day in a cubicle and keyboard warrioring out a quarterly earnings estimate, or a amortization schedule, I'm going to take some dumb iron to wrestle with, every single time.
You may have one out of the box and yes we were young and dumb and boy did I get my arse kicked when needed but I never considered it bullying and the only mental problem was I never forgot why
In the next couple of weeks I will be getting out of the service truck and back into the shop. And I only plan on being a Wrench bender for 2 more years. I am getting out of the service truck because it's become a pain in the ass. To many rules and regulations to do the work that needs to be done. I am giving myself 2 more years because by then I will be fully vested. And more importantly I will be out of debt. I love my job, but the work environment has become too much about C.Y.A. and not personable. Wages are not keeping up with technology and the cost of tools. Companies treat you like they own you. Treat you like a liability rather then a asset. They expect loyalty, but treat you like there's hundreds of mechanics as good as you knocking the door down to get hired. The truth is that all the good mechanics are phasing out. There is some hope with the younger guys, but experience is what makes you good and a desire to learn is what makes you great. That is lacking in the younger guys. I originally thought that I would buy my own service truck and that would cure most of my problems working for the man. But now I am done. It's hard on my body. And I don't have anyone to turn the business over to when I am to busted up to do the work. For you business owners out there I feel bad for what's coming around the corner for you. Down time will stretch out longer and cost is going to go higher. But the world won't stop turning because all the good wrenches are gone. It will only get more expensive. But the truly sad part is. The good mechanics will still be underpaid and unappreciated. And that's where I lose all empathy for this business. In two years I will be free!
Just as a aside, you guys were mentioning the cost of tools, and the young guy working for me had the snap on man visit class. The instructor had them one afternoon go through the snap on book, and have them make a tool list and cost for whatever they considered a "basic" set that they would want. I think my employee's total was over 20k, and it was a pretty basic set, nothing over 1/2" drive. I gave him a old roll around box that had some bent up drawers, and he's been shopping HF and lowes and online searching up for deals. He really just uses all my tools in our shop, but he's working to get his own stuff. He's resisted the snap on man's $10,000 box so far, but he seems hesitant on used tools. I've always been happier with a quality used tool, than brand new chinese, and hopefully that will rub off on him. Because I struggle with new snap on tool pricing. But all those tools would be far cheaper than a private college for 4 years.
Big step would be to make stuff easier to work on....sending repairs out now as access is non-existant and I'm to damn old to fight it laying on a creeper.... Ed
Fix it? No thanks the less that can do this job the higher I make. maybe that’s the wrong attitude but I feel that we would be stuck in the $13-15/hr range if there was more mechanics around.
In the local areas it seems to be mostly pay related. Good guys go work in the mines or power plants. Or they go independent so all the dealers at least have the not so good/parts changers. Not saying I'm much of a wrench but that's my take locally.
Gentlemen, it isn’t our problem. Our time will be done. The employers have baked their own cakes. They starved us out by not hiring young people to work their way into the trade. Trade schools were more concerned about keeping paying students than producing capable tradesmen. They also hired incompetent instructors and then starved them for materials. Employers pulling people from those programs did not hold the schools accountable and now whine about the availability of wrenches. I say too bad. I’ve worked with a couple of great young men with lots of talent. The game is now in their hands. I wish them well.
Amen!
$20k for a basic set? I don't know how they actually sell any of that crap. Except for specialty tools it makes no sense. I only use my tools here and there not anywhere close to full-time but i've never had an issue with the cheaper stuff. My cheap toolboxes have stood up fine, I have one that is 15 years old and still works as good as when I bought it and none cost more then $300, when it comes to wrenches and sockets who cares about the brand? For even $2000 you should have a pretty decent setup of tools. I also don't feel bad when I abuse the hell out of a tool when it's much cheaper.
Snapon and the likes are attractive because it's cool. And you can make small payments until you retire. But I admit those toolboxes are tough. I'm in the market for big box now. And I do want a snapon box. I'm just not going to buy one off the truck.
I don't blame younger people not wanting to get into certain things, buddy of mine is foreman at Freightliner dealership, it's insanely tough to find apprentices but even worse to keep them. Says many last under 6 months, they see the guys in their 40s and 50s the way the job has beat them up and they want no part of it. The one's who use their head move up though, the one's who don't spend all their years doing grunt work, as in any industry. I know I would never even consider being a HD tech, after a few weeks of wrenching full-time in the winter on my own stuff i'm sick of it and want no part of working on anything for a long time. The other scary part is the one's who are actually doing the job, or trying. Took my pickup into dealership today for inspection as i'm selling it, they called on the usual money making things, fluid changes, brakes, and ball joints none of which need to be done. Did not notice the things that SHOULD be called that I warned the buyer would come up, like e-brake seized or the axle shaft u-joints are shot. Just scares the hell out of me these "mechanics" are working on vehicles everyday and don't know their head from their ***, when I told the service advisor the diffs and t-case where changed 6,000 miles ago she said "oh well you better get them checked out because the fluids are dirty". If I wasn't an honest guy they'd get people ripped off so bad, didn't even take the truck for a test drive and knew he was buying site unseen and relying on them to look it over.
What's attractive to me is the extra money in my bank account. I mean if the 10k toolbox will last someone wrenching full-time for 20+ years it's not too bad, but also shouldn't be bought until a mechanic is established and can pay cash for it. Any good school should be teaching financial responsibility and to not spend a stupid amount on tools right off the start. Like what happens if 6 months in they decide it's not for them? Lose a fortune.
And that's where I the more experienced mechanic comes along with cash. And buys your 20k of boxes and tools for 6k.
Its all wrong.. the barrier to entry is huge. cost of tools, the knowledge and confidence. it takes many years to understand each type of equipment. The tax on your body is extreme. The reward is not worth the trouble. Seasoned mechanics should be levels above all other 'labor' in terms of pay. It doesnt happen. A truck driver will likely make more than a mobile mechanic at a large outfit. An operator will make far more. No wonder nobody signed up. The easier jobs pay better. watch what happens as mechanics learn they can command any contract they want.. 100+ an hour is not unreasonable. If able to get it handled.
I see it all the time on F.Book Market Place.. “For Sale:: I bought these tools while attending Technical School.. Didn’t work out & tools never used.” I’m talking about 10’s of thousands of dollars worth of tools.. All the way from Brass Hammers to PowerProbes.. Hell, I’m retired and didn’t own half the stuff these kids are required to have..(or want)
Snap On is smoking crack and near criminal on their pricing. $500 gets you a few wrenches or a small socket set. It’s good tools but not worth what they sell at and they get suckers. Most of our shop uses cheaper stuff there is one guy who thinks Snap On is the only way to go and will only buy from them. they sell it with slick talk and financing. One of our guys bought a top of the line toolbox from them with 2 side lockers and overhead lockers plus hutch. Massive beautiful box. $20k. Then he went into a field truck a year later. Make sense of that if you can we live in a time where cheap tools are much improved in quality and availability. I take full advantage of that
I would never recommend to any young person to be a mechanic. It is a horrible thought to wake up and know your going to be busting your rear end first thing upon arrival, jumping up and down like a monkey on some truck or machine that you don't care to work on in the first place, or on your back with oil running down your arm, or molten metal burning you . If your a mechanic it is everyday of sometimes very hard and heavy difficult work. Then like others have said the tool costs, and even with heated shops in some areas it can still be a cold miserable deal, or hot and nasty like doing a major welding project on the hottest day of the year. Being a machine operator is much easier and you get to sit down to do your job. I totally understand why not many desire to do a mechanic type job, as a full time job. Fooling around twisting a wrench on your own "NON rushed" project is a whole different deal, than is doing it for a living on every working day of 8 or more hours.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I have to be an expert in engines, fuel systems, cooling systems, emissions, electrical, electronics, pneumatics, and mechanical controls and any combination thereof. All of these systems have a wide variety of configurations and types. I have to be able to know how they all work and interact to effectively troubleshoot. I have to be able to keep track of many product families and their unique characteristics. Each of these product families is constantly being updated from year to year and each model is often available in a ton of different configurations. And at this point just keeping up with our core brand is stressful as hell. Our secondary brands, so called “allied brands” and rental equipment is a whole different story. I have to be able to work on a bunch of varied crap with poor service documentation and varying degrees of technical support (and you all know how fun it is to troubleshoot over a phone!). I have to be able to work on specialized stuff. And stuff we might see hardly ever. It’s very frustrating to do that especially when I hear of people that do a lot less getting paid more. I really love working on stuff but it’s a lot of stress to keep up with the weight of a mountain of knowledge.
I don’t kill myself to do this job. It goes the speed It goes. You want it done fast take it to the monkey two bays down that leaves bolts loose and doesn’t take his torque wrench out of its case he’s a speed demon. You want it done right the first time and the machine ready to go when it gets done you bring it to me. You want the troubleshooting to find the $2 wire issue instead of being told “it’s the computer that costs $4500” bring it to me. You want to be informed of an impending failure that can be addressed now for $1000 instead of failing in 10 hours that will cost you $20000 you bring it to me. Monkey boy will turn a blind eye to it because hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil means he doesn’t have to stand on his head and do an annoying job.
The terms Apprentice and Journeyman went out the window a long time ago. Those were still used and how it was when I started. John is correct businesses got out of the business of growing there own and let vocational schools do it. And businesses got what they payed for, not much. Many little towns across the nation had a automotive machine shop, those went away with the disposable vehicle. It's a throw away society. It's not my job to worry about the next generation of mechanic, I did my part.
IMO, what we have going on, by in large, is a culture problem. It’s a shift in the culture and it’s probably a global issue. The only thing you can do is not contribute to it. If you have kids, raise them to the standards that you expect from everyone else. That’s it, it starts and ends at home. If you do that, you’ve done your part to fix the problem.
I've heard it said- doctors have it way easier than a mechanic. Doctors only have two different models- male or female, some parts interchange, and only different years to work on of the same model- they've made the same system for such a long time. And the doctor gets a vocal rundown of what doesn't work.
As a younger mechanic I'd say it's getting rid of the apprenticeships. There's absolutely no mentorship going on, every business is grubbing and pinching for that last penny even if it costs them in the long run. Throw in everyone acting like they're still in high school, including management and most people who are good at fixing things go fix other things that may not pay better but the work environment is better.
we have apprenticing and mentoring to some degree BUT quality of candidates is very hit or miss. So far we have 50-50. There are a lot of people that come to this because they are attracted by the UTI type phenomena. And by this I mean polished brochures and videos that show the attractive parts of the job but not a word about the parts that suck. Rebuilding an engine is something every apprentice wants to do but in reality we just yank them out of the hellholes the engineers stuff them in and send them down to our rebuild center. Same with they are attracted to that big shiny field service truck but they only see it on the sunny spring day where it feels good to work outside, not the pouring wet winter day out in the landfill with maggots and trash juice dripping down on you and your expensive snap on tools rusting out in the rain. They only show clean machines, engines and transmissions already out, crisp uniform techs plugging in the Comm adapter, and a showcase shop in the commercials. I think too many romanticize the idea of what we do and when they face the shock of greasy mud packed stuff, a shop that is inadequate, a disaster of a toolroom stuffed with wore out junk, and so on they decide it’s not the path for them.
When I was a young fella, every Saturday would be a trip to the parts store. It was Standard auto, or Mobile Equipment. You walked in, and there would be a bunch of young fellas standing there, and there were guys behind the counter with big thick books trying to help you out. In school we went to shop class to learn about internal combustion engines, electrical, carpentry, wood working, sheet metal... A lot of us spent the weekends working on old cars, hanging out at the parts store. Couple of my friends went on to be mechanics. One works on cars, and the other works on trains. There were some welders, machinists, equipment operators. truck drivers. If I go to the old Mobile equipment Napa now, on Saturday morning, a guy and a girl working. Most of the time she knows more than him. No more books, no young people meeting up, and maybe going to see someone else's project. Everyone buys parts on line, and no one gets inspired to get into the business. No one fixes anything, just pay someone to throw parts at it. Go on youtube and watch some of these guys in other countries rebuilding parts, and while their methods are crazy, some of them have real skills. Hard for guys to pass on skills that are not used anymore, and half the time no one wants to learn. It's like everything else, you have it or you don't, and if you don't explore stuff when you are young, you don't get excited about doing it. The trend seems to be in the schools to encourage the least intelligent to go into the trades. Takes brains to do this stuff I was in university when I got into operating (probably should have stayed there ). Most guys that are good at their job are smart at something
There is a problem with the tech schools in this business that I have seen can only be 3 possibilities that I can think of....... 1. They are not teaching troubleshooting skills at all..................or... 2. The students are not retaining what they are taught......or...... 3. The students don't have the desire to learn the business and just go through the motions. This applies to the instructors teaching as well. The biggest problem is techs trying to repair something when they don't understand how the system is supposed to work. The amount of dealer techs that fall in this category is astounding. If I hire a dealer to repair my equipment in the field, I am expecting the best that dealer has to offer. Someone that is experienced and seasoned, that can think outside the box................this is why the field service rates are the highest. You would be shocked at how many times I see a dealer tech siting in their truck on the phone getting troubleshooting assistance. We ALL need the same assistance at times, you always will in this business...........but I am talking about basic, even simple stuff. I even had a heavy experienced Cat tech tell me he doesn't recommend their shop to customers for ANY repair. That says a lot! I saw this last summer my, big construction company I do work for, attempt to hire mechanics and helpers. They went through 3 in 2 weeks......One stating that it was "Too hot" and left after 3 hours on the job. One of the others worked his 1st day til lunchtime and never came back. I was fortunate enough to see the writing on the wall when I topped out in the pay scale for field service techs in Oklahoma at 27 years old. There was nowhere else to go, and I still couldn't afford a decent house. Experience and pay only gets you so far working for the man. I would rather be in control of my own life and not have it controlled by an employer. You guys working for others? I feel you, ...been there, done that.....and it sucked even back then.
Probably a lot of old-time mechanic-welders like me came from a farm background where we learned how to work, think(maybe) and repair(or patch) stuff since we were old enough to hold a wrench, and then were easily able to train in various trades. It was like a personal evolution of sorts. But most people nowadays don't come from that kind of a background. That's just the way it is now and it may require thinking outside the box to help move out of the shortage of skilled tradespeople and attract better entrance-level people who will stick with it
And another thing..............My 18-year-old grandson can't get a loan to buy a $3000.00 car, but he can go into debt over $100K to get an education?! *** is that about!!!??
I think pay rates are all out of whack these days. Add to that that prices of somethings like a car or truck how can anyone afford anything. Just looked up some prices. Back in 1968 when I started at the quarry shoveling under conveyors I was earning all of $2.89 an hour! Back then a new bottom of the line Chevy truck went for about $2,400.00. So that means I would have needed to work around 830 hours to pay for that truck. Fast forward to today just looked up price on a short bed two door Chevy and I'm seeing $34,195.00 Now if I divide that by the 830 hours I would have worked in 1968 to pay for a new truck at $2.89 that means now I would need to be paid $41.19 an hour to do that same work. I can guaranty that the quarry would not be paying half that for an untrained new guy with a shovel in his hands!
Loan for education can be sponsored or guaranteed by the government. Car loan can also be had, if someone co-signs on the loan.
I saved my money and had mini bikes and motorcycles but they were junkers that i bought not running. I learned alot trying to get them running and keep them running. When i worked as a welded i always wanted to tell the foreman if you had built a birdhouse as a kid it would have helped you under stand a little about what is going on now.
I think the biggest problem is money. On average you make the same money wrenching as you do driving, but you need to have 20-30k worth of tools, and beat yourself up while you are doing it . . .
Problem with driving is that you have to give up half your brain power.
Most OTR drivers aren't home at night either. Leave sunday night, home saturday morning. I think the driving pay is more based on the being gone all the time, not how difficult it is.
More than half . . . and the newer equipment with automatics, lane keeping, ect doesn't even require the thinking it used to. I decided I was going to be a big rigger when I was 18, for lack of any other guidance. At the time New York wouldn't let you get a Class A or drive out of state until you were 21, so I got a class B and drove local. By the time I turned 21 I knew for certain I wasn't going to spend a career holding a steering wheel . . .
I have been wrenching for over 40 years. Mostly dealerships and an electrical utility. When I retired at 60 a local shop I used to send work to made me an offer I could not refuse. I now work 2 days a week and all tools are supplied. I told them if you give me any crappy jobs I will immediately retire. Last week a freight company we do work for called with a transmission problem with their 20 ton Taylor forklift. It could hardly move in first and would not move in second or third. They have 2 techs and an old school mechanic and all 3 diagnosed it as a transmission problem. As soon as I got in it to drive it in the shop I could tell the brakes were dragging. It has air over hydraulic brakes. I reached down and pulled up on the brake pedals, there was a discharge of air pressure from underneath and amazingly the transmission worked again as it should. I spent an hour removing the pivot pins from both pedals and cleaning and lubing them. I find it hard to believe that the 3 mechanics did not pick up on the brakes dragging.
Good point on being a part-time mechanic for yourself vs. doing it for a living. Many years ago, my uncle who is pretty handy got recruited by the local John Deere farm equipment dealer to work as a part-time mechanic after retiring (he was in his 50's at the time, the early 1980's, and well acquainted with the owner) he did it for about a month and found even a couple of days a week was too much for him.
A long time ago (by today's standards) there was a song and one line in the song was " a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" . I have worked on industrial production machines and heavy construction equipment for 50 years. All of my customers at sometime have asked me "what are we going to do when you retire". I have told them all the same answer since I was 50. 1. Find a young person that likes turning wrenches and machinery in general. 2. Send that person to some good schools for the brand equipment that you use. 3. Pay well while they are learning, if you can pay your bills you will pay more attention to your work. 4. If your organization isn't big enough to employ and train them, find other companies to share them with. We did this years ago when industry wasn't as automated as now. 5. Chances are in a relatively short time they will know more about the production floor, pit, construction job or whatever else than you can so listen to them when a problem comes up. But as usual none of them have listened and look at where we are now. They still ask the question but they never hear the answer. At 71 I as others have health problems and that is when they start to worry. It isn't to hard to find a good young auto mechanic that is less than enamored by today's dealerships and the vehicles they work on and would be happy to learn something new with better pay and benefits.
When I was young like 13 years old young I was reading old Chilton's & Motors manuals because that was what interested me. Weird I know. Piles of Hot Rod & Custom Car at the foot of my bed. I started sweeping floors and washing parts as a junior in high school-$1.60 an hour. First actual job was working for a foreign car shop, had to start some where-I was working OHC before most at the time. Later went to work for a automotive machine shop. I can say that experience was the most valuable of all. You really get a grasp of what goes on in a internal combustion engine and just how critical every single tolerance is. Running a Van Norman 448 crank grinder is a tedious job along with cylinder head and boring machines. I always felt lucky I worked auto machine, it gives a perspective you won't see or experience in any other shop work. {My opinion only and not to scoff at anyone}>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike L had made a comment about stomach butterflies when starting a fresh engine. Building engines and gear boxes takes far more concentration and skill than trouble shooting/ diagnostics with a laptop. All those components are external-you can reach them touch them remove them with little effort. And if you don't get it right the first time not to big of a deal, not too much money lost customer will not be too wound up. Completely rebuild a $45,000 dollar engine and it grenades-------YOUR reputation as a engine rebuilder Just took a HIT. Not to mention the boss is pissed because he has to eat it to try and pacify a hosed customer. It is solely my opinion that too much glory is laid at the feet of the ECM technician. Not much risk there-99% chance of a few more key strokes and A-ok. Most schools don't go into depth about the engineering of a engine-just basics. I was on the board for the diesel program at Walla Walla Community College-I quit because it was a worthless program and WWCC staff didn't want to hear what I had to say. The problems are in the schools. My last reply to this thread.
I never worked in a machine shop but I took a few semesters in college. I agree it is an experience worth having. Helps you understand how all of it works together. I also took automatic transmissions. Not something I would care to work on daily, but the experience helps you understand what you are maintaining. I agree with most all of what you posted.
Not the same here, depending on the type of driver here wages can be 22/hr to low 30's max. HD mechanic will make at least high 30/hr to 50/hr. I don't think pay is the problem here at all, they are compensated well and much better then auto tech's, I think so many just don't want to do the work. If you get into it, imo you have to be smart and work into a management role instead of wrenching on stuff forever, if you can get to the point of having an office job in under 15 years, it's not bad.
Amen brother! I feel your pain. Ditto on the Amen brother! My sentiments exactly!
I got to O J T at a machine shop my last 2 weeks of votec auto mechanics . The guy i work with had got out of votec 2 years before and got a job there. The shop is still open it went from 3 guys down to the one guy i worked with and he told me when he retires they will close it. He is very busy there is always alot of work piled up. He says that the EPA and goverment rules are making it so bad every time i get some work done the bill has i think a deal on it for disposal of hazardous waste. If i was rich i would buy it and have him train me over agin then i would find a young guy or 2 that was wanting to do this stuff and train them. Then i would give it to them someday.
This^^^^^^ Last winter I stumbled across a deal. $1800 Homak roller, full of tools. A few pics, no Snappy, but pretty decent Carlisle and older Craftsman. Guy was asking $2500, I told him I'd be there in the morning without asking a single question about the tools or box. Got it home, after sorting everything out I figure there was conservatively $6000 worth of tools if I had to buy it all new. Sometimes a guy gets lucky.
As an owner who has had to learn to be a mechanic as well as an operator, I've been saying for YEARS that technology has screwed over the mechanic's world, both in the job itself, and the fact that EVERYONE wants to sit in a nice comfy seat in air conditioned glory listening to their favorite playlist, and not having to know the difference between cut/fill, 3:1 and 8:1, or how to fuel or grease whatever they are running. Many machines that used to require skilled operators (blades, finish dozers, pavers) are all controlled by GPS and auto-grade, and the operators couldn't accomplish a job without it if their life depended on it. But, they are the ones getting paid. Sad.
Kids as mechanics today seem out of place as to a Working Environment, they want jobs handed to them pre diagnosed and ready to order parts they will change at a premium. Have witnessed this at nearly every dealership Car, truck HE I have been around the shop of for the last year. No ethic whatsoever.
Maybe stop abusing them with long hours, and low pay. Check out what this trucking company is really hiring: https://hirschbach.com/careers Front office needs a Barista and cook.....maybe use that money instead for a few more wrench turners ? Corporate pilot: https://hirschbach.applytojob.com/apply/5X8zwKqB5d
This thread is a reminder of how many old $&*#@+=%’s are here. LOL
Yes we are!! And earned those Wings might I add!!
BTW the Other Half has not Killed you yet??? Not even ONCE??
I went to school at 24 years old for heavy equipment tech. I had a passion for working on trucks and equipment on my own time and figured why not do it for a living. When i finished school and started looking for a job it was absolute insult. I made $19 a hour doing interlocking stone work before school and after spending 15k at school companys were offering me $14 a hour. Forget about that thank you very much so i went back to stone work at $20 and then a got into a excavator. Now a few years later i make $32 a hour with good benefits as a apprentice operator and didnt even go to school for it. After a few thousand hours i well be at about $40 a hour and I dont even have to supply my own grease gun or hand shovel. Thats why there is a shortage of mechanics.
I remember something about a wrench in Canada had to carry some sort of license as well?
I don't know why the route to being a mechanic would be going to school right off the bat, it makes way more sense to get someone in a shop and just learn the trade, even if starting pay is low it's better then paying to learn. I don't know of anyone whether they are a auto tech or HD tech that went to school off the bat, all of them got on as labourer and after a bit got offered an apprenticeship. A few took mechanics in high school where in the last year they get a placement somewhere and then got offered a full-time job after high school. To me any good shop starting a guy like that should tell them spend at least a year doing it to make sure you actually want to do it before investing in any tools. To spend a fortune going to school then trying to find a job seems backwards to me, let them start sweeping floors and learning hands on without any investment.
Yes John in the rest of Canada you do but here in the joke of a province quebec is we dont. Oh dont worry i had lots of time in the shop before i decided to go to school. The whole system is a joke and then companys wonder why they cant keep over worked and underpayed employees around
Have not spoken to the powers that be recently, have ya!!! The new theory is School them to a degree and then they are Promotable Material even as many cannot remember Righty Tighty Lefty Loosey.
In BC on Canada's west coast the colleges offer a Pre-Apprentice Course. The course is 6 months long and not that expensive. Upon completion the perspective apprentice has a basic knowledge of hand tools and a basic understanding of the equipment they will be working on. The course counts as the first half of their first year of apprenticing. Once they hire on as an apprentice they start at 50 to 55% of the qualified tradesman's wage with raises ever 6 to 12 months until completion.
I can't wait to be able to put it all behind me.
Back in 2016 when I graduated they told us to expect to make $15/hr upon promotion to full time. That fortunately did not happen for my company’s graduates our liaison at the dealer fought for us and we were much better off. Other dealer’s graduates that did the program with us were not so lucky. One made $12/hr right off the bat. then a couple years later one guy came to us from one of those dealers. He had instead of going through the degree program we did had went through a true apprentice program. Only they took advantage of him and his fellow apprentices by paying them nothing for a full year and calling it an “internship” then paying them like $10/hr for the second year. He finally had enough of that BS and moved to our territory and got a job with us. I’m very pro business but that is abuse of labor in my book. It’s one thing to have an unpaid internship for say a graduate student still in college for six months it’s another to expect someone to do this kind of job for free…and buy tools and support themselves. We made $10/hr to start with during my program and each successful semester got you a .50 cent raise so while it was nothing world shattering at least you got paid an OK wage while you were in the shop (we didn’t get paid while we were at school). Plus our dealers supplied apartments that we paid a very reasonable $450 a semester rent on so we had a place to live while away at school.
I tried when I turned 60. I was retired for a month. Two days a week is not a lot and it helps as my pensions don't start till I'm 65.
I have a friend with a wheat farm 30 miles into nowhere, no people, no cell phone signal, just rolling hills of wheat to keep me busy x amount. No people just lots of wildlife.
Ask him if he wants to adopt a youngen I know a guy who would like that scenery.
Not sure about the rest of the country, but in Atlantic Canada, cars trucks busses all have to have an annual safety inspection. Trucks and busses used to be every 6 months, but they went to a year, and private vehicles went to every 2. Don't agree with every 2, some people never look at a vehicle unless it's inspected, and there is a lot of junk out there. Anyway, you need a provincial license to do inspections, and it has to be T&T for heavy trucks. Other than that, unless a company wants a red seal, a lot of guys have no paperwork.
He's an X Cat dealer mechanic of twenty five years took over his folks place. He had enough Too.
That wife of mine is a high school teacher and we discuss this situation at length often. She says that the kids today think they should be able to have every thing they want (what everyone else they see has) working only 40 hrs a week. When I was coming up in this business they all told me you can either have time or money but you can’t have both. I really think that’s the hardest thing for the new generation to grasp. You should spend your 20s working all the time for next to nothing but experience, your 30s making a way for yourself in your particular field, and by your 40s you should be well on your way to making it so you can start pulling back on the hours so you don’t have to work 70+ in your 50s and 60s. And if you work hard and earn it, there’s no reason you can’t do it that way.
Except at our rate of inflation-they will be working when 70. The price of cars, pickups, houses and food. And all that depends if their health holds out. Because any medical issues will wipe them out. Not to mention the price of raising children. This ain't 1970 anymore.
Truck shop if i could like that twice i would. You have no idea gow refreshing it is to hear some one over the age of 50 say that. I am 31 have a house a kid and a crappy old 22 year old pick up. I work minimum 50 hours a week and cant afford any extras and i make over the average Canadian house hold income. For people working minimum wage or even anything close to it what is the point of going to work every day when every day no mater how hard you work you go deeper into debt.
Why should I do skilled labor for peanuts just for “experience”? I’m not saying I should have been payed top scale of course, or anywhere near it but when I was new in the field I faced the same risks and same needs (having to buy tools) as experienced mechanics, and worked my body just as hard (because we all know the new guy gets the most of the bull work). I worked hard at my job and my school to get to where I am today. I have two apprentices that are hard, eager workers who will go far in this business. Both of their fathers are heavy equipment mechanics and I think both of their grandfathers are as well. When they graduate and go full time why should they be expected to exchange a prime decade of their life for peanuts? When they graduate I’m going to push for them to be paid not the same as I was upon graduation but more because they have demonstrated they deserve every penny and more. These two young men will be a backbone of our shop ten years down the road.
That sounds brutal to be honest. I think a big part of the problem is people just spend too much. It is harder now for sure, but when people say things like houses have skyrocketed (they have) but it's also because they are getting way bigger and fancier and you just don't need it, same thing with vehicles and it's part of the reason they got so pricey. At 25 I built a $1.4m house had nearly million dollar mortgage, it's not all it's cracked up to be, i'm now selling it. I'm happy with a more modest one and banking the saved money to make me even more money. I think the biggest difference now if you can't just work 40, 50 or even 60 hours for someone else and not do anything else and get anywhere, unless it's the rare job where you make really really good money. You need to run your own company, invest, own rental properties something on the side to make more money, that you didn't need to do before. I own 3 rental properties and it's a nice amount of extra income. I worked my ass off in my 20's and at 32 I am extremely comfortable, at the rate i'm going by 40 I could retire if I was single without kids still, if I wanted to. The biggest thing many people don't get is how much easier it gets once you got some money/assets, having money makes you money, but you got to start saving to get there. Looking at most people my age it's crazy how many are still renting living paycheck to paycheck and have nothing, I don't get it. I didn't spend my 20's partying and blowing money though, I was working 80-90 sometimes 100 hour weeks to get ahead. I'm already at the point I won't do it anymore, now if I average 40 hours for the year that's more then enough, took 6 weeks off this winter, it's just so nice to have a break. I saw the money problems growing up, it's a big reason why my parents divorced and it was constantly an issue, so it was huge for me to never be in that position and be comfortable. I know someone mid 20's wife doesn't work they have 2 kids, he makes $100k a year they rent and live paycheck to paycheck. Money isn't the problem, it's spending, financing 2 new vehicles it's just stupid. If people making $100k then next year they make $120k they just increase their life a bit and don't end up any better off, instead of saving that money. I can't imagine working 70 hours a week in my 40's and 50's though, if anyone has to to get by, they messed up somewhere.
If they stay?
Totally agree, know a few who before 30 are making 6 figures as they should be.
Everyone has posted good comments and thoughts on different aspects of the problem. I don't think this problem is limited to just heavy equipment mechanics, all trades are having very similar problems, where the older generation is phasing out and the newer generations don't want to do the work(almost any skilled labor job). Ride by any construction project and see who is doing the majority of the labor work. Pay, benefits, sense of entitlement, cost of living, the difficulty of the work, and the cost of tools all play a role a big role in not being able to attract newcomers. Add in the fact that all anybody wants to do is use a cell phone or computer and not get their hands dirty and It's a perfect recipe for what all of you see in the field every day. There will always be exceptions to the rule and I know of a few younger guys that will have bright futures in the trades, but they are the exception. The machinery companies I think make the problem worse. Most new techs can't fix anything without a laptop, prime example is VeTechs write-up on that 700 dozers radiator. The proverbial world going to hell in a handbasket is not a new phenomenon. We've always managed to overcome somehow in the past, hopefully we can in the future.
The people who will fill those jobs will be poor people with no better choice who will mostly be immigrants.
When I was 20 in 1980 I started working as a mechanic in a truck dealership. I had enough experience that I bypassed the apprenticeship program. The rate in 1980 was $12.36 an hour. That was a good wage then. That same year I bought a 4 year old 12' x 56' 2 bedroom trailer in new condition trailer for $10,000, a few months later I bought a 2 year old Ford F250 in new condition for $2520 taxes included a good deal ta the time. I paid them both off in 3 years. Before I bought the trailer I was paying $200 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment. My daughter just sold a 14' x 60' 2 bedroom trailer for $160,000. July 2020 I bought a 2018 GMC Sierra for $25,000 tax included a very good deal. Wages have not kept up with inflation. A 1 bedroom rental here is over $1800 a month if your lucky. I could not imagine starting out today even earning the top wage buying a home today would be cost prohibitive.
I personally think the apprenticeship program here in Alberta has worked well over the years. It used to be that anyone who is employed as a mechanic has to be either qualified(licensed), or a registered apprentice to work on certain repair jobs. A person can be employed as a shop helper or gopher with no training and work with a qualified tradesman. I know guys that fix their own stuff, but i wouldn't want them working on mine. The system has weeded out a lot of substandard people but still allows a high-school kid to do oil changes at the Screw-up Lubey Lube. I shy away from those places. In short, the Red Seal apprenticeship program for trades has set a minimum standard for qualified tradespeople, which in my opinion, is a good thing, and is recognized in most, if not all provinces here in Canada
All this talk about wages make me want to think of what something like a basic pick-up cost today compared to say 1968 when I started work. Took a good bit of digging but it looks like one in 1968 could have bought a new F100 for about $2,500. The best price I could find for a "basic" F150 for today is $29,000! That works out to about 12 times the price. Going by my stating pay rate in 1968 of $2.89 that means someone starting at the quarry today would need to be making $34.68 an hour to pay for that F150 with the same number of hours work. I not sure what a new hire general laborer at the quarry would be making today but would be surprised if it was over $20.00. Yes! I know that a 2022 F150 has more things standard than even the top level 1968 had but I don't know of anyway you can find a new truck without all the crap they put on them these days!
Here a 3 bd 2bth 1400 sq ft 330,000.
The picture below is the Ford dealership in Terrace BC in 1965. My dad bought the blue F100 on the left for $1800. He was working for a logging company as a mechanic making $3.50 an hour at the time which was top rate. The owner of the Ford dealership bought the property in the picture half a city block in the mid 1950s for $700.
I have been reading this thread....and debating with myself to say anything.... I work for a small equipment manufacturer that makes niche equipment. I have for a long time. Like my whole career. Which is coming to an end at the end of the month. I answer technical calls. I scratch my head at the "quality" of some of the younger "mechanics" being sent out to work on customer owned machines. If it isn't warranty, I would highly p*ssed if I was a customer and got a bill for labor for these guys wasting time on the cell phone hoping for a miracle. They can't read a schematic, they don't want to try to read a schematic, they won't look at the literature that is available to them, They won't use a computer to check for codes or what exactly the system is telling them. Basically it is call in and pray that someone on the other end of the phone has a magic wand that works to fix their issue. Many small companies are light on service literature. Since part of my duties is training, I have put a lot of effort into making sure everything possible is available, including colored schematics of specific circuits with a written description detailing what happens and where to find the wires and components. They won't use it. Or any of the rest of the technical literature that is available to them, including how to guides. They are tool owners and a cell phone users. The software gives you fault codes, inputs/outputs, etc., and again, they won't use it. I am lazy, 10 minutes sitting in the seat staring at the screen to see what the machine tells me via a laptop sounds better than hours crawling around with a volt ohm meter. I have had "mechanics" ask me what a VOM is. You can't make this up. Unfortunately, being close to my sell by date has finally broken down the barriers. I ask them what brand of shoes I am wearing, because the lack of their ability to do anything has me in a position guess at best. Unfortunately also, is some of my fellow tech support people are not much better. To be fair, there are some good ones, but they are thin on the ground. One of the best I have dealt with makes me cringe when he calls, because if he can't figure it out, I am going to have to think really hard. But he is good enough, he rarely calls. There are a few others, but not many.
VOM.. Very obese man Voice over machine Vitamins or minerals Can I do this in a Wheel of Fortune format?
It's even worse than that.
I thought it was the sound a french car made.
I thought that referred to BSAA65LB "Very Old Man"
Dealers are so desperate they will put anyone in a field truck The problematic kids that were lazy in school and pushed into the trades? They are the ones behind the wrench now. And we wonder why there are issues with mechanics not being willing to do basic troubleshooting.
Most tech's were simply not taught how to troubleshoot anything. While there is definitely a personal responsibility to learn and advance yourself in your career if you're taught bad habits then it's even hard to get on the right path. Two of the best mechanics I've known both have brother's that are big time engineers. The only reason they're mechanics is they didn't want to do the corporate route. If they were the oldest or single child, they probably would have been engineers too. And being a top engineer pays much better than turning wrenches.
Those lazy people pushed into the trades are the same as when I started. Most are not necessarily lazy, just bored with what they are doing in the school.
I was at a friends place talking with his neighbor over the fence. The neighbor is a mechanic for the Chevy/GMC dealer. He was telling me he had a new 1500 GM pickup in the shop that the electric assist power steering stopped working. Apparently they are not allowed to do any troubleshooting. Scan it and call their tech support number. The steering rack has an electronic module on it. Tech support said replace the module. They ordered one and replaced it, still no assist. Tech support said replace the rack and pinion assembly. They ordered one and installed it, still no assist. Tech support said I guess you are on your own. The mechanic told me that there are 2 data buses that run the length of the truck, LIN1 and LIN2. They both have terminating resistors on each end. Two of these resistors are near the rear bumper. One of the resistors at the rear had the seal on the plug roll over when it was installed and not seal moisture got in and the resistance increased as a result. He replaced the plug and resistor and the steering worked again.
Sounds like software that isn't written with very good CAN diagnostics. A high resistance in the CAN should have thrown red flags with the software.
If he defaults on the $3k car loan, then lender is fu(k&d. If he TRIES to default on a student loan, the government pays it then hounds him for life seizing cash and assets until it is paid.
I am going to go against the grain here. Deeper into debt every week? Maybe you should examine your spending habits! Do you have cable tv? Do you have a smart phone? How many times per week do you eat out? How much do you spend per day, on average, in convenience stores? I have been poor and I have been well off. When poor, I lived modestly (at best). When well off, I spent more but was still frugal. We, in N. America, are RICH compared to most of the world, even on welfare or minimum wage.
Because when you are starting out, you are not skilled. Skill comes with experience.
But you have to make a livable wage at it for anyone to be interested.
I'm not sure what it's like in the rest of the world, but here in Texas there isn't any training or apprenticeship that I am aware of. It's mostly who you know to get your foot in the door. And it's up to you if you're going to make it. That's how I got in and I pretty much faked it until I made it. I started as a helper for my dad. I believe that he only gave me the job so I could earn money to get out of the legal trouble I was in. But damn the luck if I didn't like what we were doing and the pay was far better then anything else I did before that. The best advice that he gave me. Was if you are going to tell the customer that he needs to spend 5k then you better be right. I took that to heart. I took the time to learn how things work and why they fail. And then from there I faked it until I made it. I changed jobs a lot just to make more money so I could buy more tools. The willingness to learn is lost in the generations behind me. And companies don't train you to become a better technician. You either get hired because you know someone. Or because you are fresh out of tech school and they can hire you cheap. Or if you are known to be a good mechanic and are reliable. And the rest are any swinging dick with tools and are currently working their way through every game in town. Training, apprenticeships, schooling. I laugh and roll my eyes everytime I read it here. The industry created this problem and I frankly don't care if it ever gets solved. Because I know that companies only want cheap labor and have enough money to crush you when their mechanic royally screws up. I said it earlier. I love what I do and I am damn good at it, but wages are not keeping up with the technology and price of tools. So I am done.
I don't necessarily agree. If the options are pay a fortune to get an 'education' or hire on at low wages and get paid to learn instead of paying to learn ...
And that’s how you lose them as soon as they gain 6 months to a year experience. I’ve seen this in action and it doesn’t work. You want to know how you get half trained people who screw up stuff left and right? That’s how. The local construction company waves more cash in their face in desperation and poof they are gone, off to do jobs they sorta half know but not too well.
Which ends up---{you get what you pay for and in this case not much}.
Liveable wage does not necessarily equate to $200k house, new pickup, all kinds of toys, and plenty of fun money. None of these kids know how to struggle these days. Or, what "struggle" actually means.
Your correct in all regards Imo. But are you going to get people to do physically/mentally demanding work to live on the bare minimum with no hope of ever making anything good of there life. Expressly when there's easier ways of making green.
What is a livable wage? The variables are infinite.
You know that's a good question.
I started a thread on a motorcycle forum, must be 15+ years ago now on what constitutes 'middle class'. My contention, back in '05 or '06 was $250k was middle class, with all my supporting arguments. What would that number be? I consider my wife and I middle class now, but barely. That is in today's dollars, not the 15 year ago dollars.
Well I'm busted flat broke then.
But it's ok we just got new wheels on the shopping cart and a 4 way alignment and made a hell of a deal on a split level card board box with picture windows and crown molding and the bonus-it will fit under a bridge.
You pan handle everyone going eastbound and I will pan handle everyone going westbound
Is that $250k in net worth? No way $250k would be yearly earnings that's way too high. It was a few years ago but I remember average family income was about $100k, which seems reasonable and definitely want you need to support a family.
I just now realized who Bigwrench55 is. LOL I missed something as usual
That was yearly income, and that was 15+ years ago. With today's prices, I'd think $100k/yr would be considered working poor for a family of 4.
I got my taxes done a while back i had only worked about half a year at a 8 to 5 job then hauled some scrap. she said i was in the below poverty tax bracket it shocked me at first.
Not really sure about these figures being tossed around but just for general info my best year for taxable earnings was 2009 with $52,000 and my last full year before retiring was $46,600. Those don't take into account wife's earnings but she made considerably less than me every year. Guess a lot depends on how much you spend or feel you need!
I’m gonna throw this out there because maybe it isn’t this way in the rest of the country. I graduated high school in 2006, went to Nashville to tech school from 06-07, worked the lube rack at a GMC dealership for probably $9 an hour or so. Started at Cummins corporate as a technician in 07 at $16.50 an hour at 40 hrs a week. Left there in 2009 at $18.50 and took a mechanic job at John Deere AG dealer for $15.50 but overtime would more than comp the $3 an hour lost. Worked there for 4 years, left in 2013 at $18.50 an hour. Started at Cat dealer as field tech working night shift at the coal mine at $25 an hour. Worked 80 hrs a week for 3 years and was able to get out and work on the dirt/road jobs and landfills for the next 6 years on day shift. Worked as many hours as they’d let me, gained experience and skills, left there in 2021 at $35 an hour. I’ll be 35 in a few months, have my own field service business where I’m the only employee and I work exclusively for 1 contractor year around and during the sunny season, we work 70 hrs a week easily. As far as my work history/wage increases, are they not that way anywhere else in the country? I made changes to earn more money. Sometimes that meant leaving a company because the market just wasn’t there to support the higher wages at the time, other times that meant going into a different area within the same company for the same reasons. All the while I’ve been married, now with one child at home and about to be a second. The only time I’ve had to sacrifice home time is when I was on night shift and she was teaching and we were passing each other in the mornings. Again, made a change when the baby came so that wasn’t the case any longer. I guess I just don’t know of anywhere around here where a really good technician in any field is “barely making it” unless they aren’t willing to make the change to fix it. Some companies just aren’t going to pay you what you’re worth, period. As for my comment about working your 20s for little more than experience, I wasn’t saying you should work for 8-10 an hour for 10 years going nowhere, but you can’t expect to start out making what the seasoned technicians that have earned it are making right off the bat. Working for a company you will figure out very quickly if you’re going to be able to increase your pay/opportunities with them or if you’re going to have to move on to move up.
Lots of people just think about how much they can make and what toys they can accumulate. Some want to work excessive overtime so they can retire early. Problem is they can't do the stuff they wanted to at 30 when they are 55. I was never into lots of overtime but liked steady stable work and good working conditions. Everything changed when I got the cancer diagnosis. Suddenly money and material things just didn't seem near as important. I was never one of the keeping up with the Jones type anyway but like to have a nice truck to drive.
It seems to me trade schools over sell what you can do right out of school in my trade I never hit my stride until my lat 20s and now pushing into my thirties I have the milage to be efficient and make better money but I have had more jobs than I can count and at times made less than minimum wage for experience and now I have my own outfit and continue to gain experience it's never ending Point being the job people get right out of trade school is good for a time but that's not a career maker 99 percent of the time so your going to need to seek new opportunities to expand the guys working the lube bay at a dealer for 7 years are not looking for a challenge or to develop so why should there pay develop the need less than 300 bucks in tools to do lube so they are not investing in themselves why should a company pay somone more that wont push themselves
I was fortunate to get an apprentiship right out of high school. It was a good job and I actually got to do welding where a lot places 1st years get the grunt jobs like grinding. The unfortunate part was the recession hit in 1982 and the company was forced to close. I built hooped safety ladders for 400 barrel and larger tanks for 7 1/2 month's before moving on to welding on to the tanks. Got laid off right before I was supposed to go for schooling. That really sucked! . .
. 250k in 2006 would translate to 468k in today's dollar assuming 4% inflation annually. Which puts you very comfortably into the top 5% earners in the USA in 2022. I would assume in 2006 250k probably did the same. I'm not saying there are not wage issues in play causing a general purpose mechanic shortage but certainly advocating wages that put you in top 5% or top 10% for a trade profession is not helpful at all. For the record middle class is state specific but for a family of four it's typically 75k to 150k.
Now for a quick comparison. Divide 1800 by 3.5 = 514, then take a nice 60,000 dollar truck divide by a 40 dollar hour wage and get 1500, so we can see how overpriced things really are.
While wages haven't kept up for sure I wouldn't say that is a fair comparison. I think you'd need to compare price to a base 1500, which prior to the last 2 years which will correct itself couldn't be more then 40000.
a base 1500 in Southeastern US is a 30k truck. 60k is a nice mid grade bordering on upper grade package. Even a bare truck is a thousand times more featured than a loaded truck 30 years ago