I have bin told so many times that I'm doing the roads wrong,by the older grader guys who work with me at the county we have 8 graders and do 600 miles of road in the foothills.When I work a road I do the whole road,I pull some grass rip out pot holes and make 5 passes when its dry to work rocks to the shoulders and 3 passes when wet.The old guys tell me just fix the wash board or "You will Loosen the Fines" and your roads fall apart. I say bull the rate payers are not paying to watch Graders drive around all day or are they smarter then me and I'm wrong.I'm not new to graders worked for the Oil sands on 16G Cat Graders for 5 years and 8,000 hrs on a Champion with another County. But after your told everyday that "your loosening the roads" I like to know what you guys think Thanks Brian
Yair . . . teamlayton . I'm laughing . . . and don't get me wrong, I'm certainly no grader hand. What I reckon is that "the older grader guys" have probably been skiving off for years and now you come along and upset the applecart by doing the job properly . . . and the Good Ole Boys are just a little peevy. I could be wrong, and, as I say I'm no great shakes on a blade but I have seen similar scenarios more than once before. All the best with it. Cheers.
In general, I pull the ditches first. Depending on how long it's been since any work was done dictates how deep I recut 'em. Then I'll go one way with the blade into the road surface deep enough to take out washboard and any potholes, while rolling what was cut out to the other side of the roadway. Then it's time to come back the other way doing the same thing. Once that's done then it's time to roll the blade forward a bit and start shaping the road for crown and grade on slope, usually one pass either way. You didn't mention anything about a water truck and if a roller is available. In dry weather I prefer to have the roadway watered heavily for a day or so in advance, then after I've finished it gets watered again but not as heavily. If a roller is available, it's run just as soon as the road has been watered. I've seen fairly heavily traveled gravel roads done this way last several years and not needing yearly grading. I've seen what you describe the others are doing and if there's much travel on the roadway, it'll looks just like it did within a short time (sometimes within a couple of weeks) complete with washboards and potholes. Keep on doing what you're doing.
Sounds like your doing it the way it's soupposed to be done when I have a road that is all warshboarded I cut the whole road out from one side to the other then pick up all of your cut material and start building the crown back in I have 5 to6% crown on all my roads keeps water off here's a few pics on how I do it now this is where I blade windrow off the road and my finish pass this is what the finished road looks like when I'm all done
I can under stand what your saying. I have about 50 hours on a grader. Their is a big shortage of operators around here one guy told me he is runing 4 different townships. One place tryed out a ex amish notheing aginst the guy but he has had a drivers licence for a year and i dont know if he has ever been on a tractor. I gess you need a tuff skin or good ear plugs. If i am ask agin i may try it.
I wish someone would teach the bozos on the blades around here how to shape up a road. I grew up on logging roads in the PNW where a blade hand would be ran off if he did a lousy job without showing that he was learning. Here we tolerate amateur work and pay good money for it on Borough roads.
Teamlayton,,, the other op's could be right if you don't have the proper moisture at hand to get the road to lay down and pack again,, then cutting deep is a bad thing. If you look at Cat 140mAWd's picture, he is working his road in the best possible condition's. He has plenty of moisture, its a cloudy day, and its either late spring or early fall. His road will last a long time once its packed back down. Then on the other hand , if your moisture is marginal at best then a deep cut will only bring up you binder (the material that pass's a #200 sieve) only to turn dry and dusty before it gets packed back down. If you see dust flying shortly after a grading that same dust is your #200 material getting blown away. Many times grading rural roads, you don't either have the proper moisture to do a great job or sad as it is you don't have the proper time to cover all your roads before the moisture is all gone. In a nutshell , you have to make the decision yourself A) Is the moisture good enough to do the best job possible B) Do I have the time to spend on a particular road, or will others in my service area be pissed off cause they didn't get a grading. Find out what your supervisor's want,,, then figure it out what your plan of attack will be. Trust me I know how people can be, I've graded township road over 50 years now.... been there done that..... good luck. Grandpa PS: Cat 140M AWD... that's a damn nice job of grading.... one can alway's tell if a grader hand know's his stuff..... his wheel tracks are straight.... yours are straight and true,,, your a credit to your profession!!!!
Thanks a lot on the compliment grandpa I've ben running blade for 7 yrs now and I'm only 21 learned from my dad which he has ben running blade for 43yrs so I learened from the best. Ik he's proud of me.
Well he sure as hell otta be!!!
Thanks guys for the input,we have had lots of rain this year 4 to 10 inches at a time.All our roads have water runs pot holes and washed out areas.We get letters to the papers on how bad the roads are and in one area the rate payers are trying to get the operator removed.I was just starting to worry I was hurting more then helping.I take pride in my work,when I leave a area I would like it to look as good as Cat140m awp is doing "Nice work"
They FINALLY did my road correct about 2 weeks ago. Norse did it, awesome job. Watered down, graded and rolled. Every time before it was Tews. They wouldn't cut it hard enough and all the holes would come back after a couple weeks.
Well I can't edit... Huh... Just wanted to say Tews was doing ok work without a roller. Cut too deep without packing and it makes a mud bog.
I think location makes a lot of difference as well. Different soil types, expected weather, etc. Especially on a website such as this where we get information from around the World. As in Grader Man's pics, where he is grading an area that is perfectly flat and straight as far as you can see. What I wouldn't give for those conditions!!! Very professional results!!! I grade 50 miles of roads spread over 40 square miles. Hilly and crooked. Road widths that vary from 30ft down to 15ft. I even notice a difference in conditions in that small of area. Depending on conditions, I might grade over here today, then tomorrow I may move over there. As a rule of thumb, I move however much material it takes to fix the particular road I'm working on. I also like it to be a bit damp. But then, I'm not a full-time, 40hr per week employee. It's left up to me to work when needed, go home when not. So I can be a little more picky about finding the best conditions to work under.
Nice job! your Dad must be proud, I'm with OVRSZD what i wouldn't give to have roads like that, hills , sharp turns, wide to narrow back to wide with nothing but big rocks and ledge to scrape over and try to spread gravel,lol. I always try to cut to the edge of the ditch, if there is some grass on the shoulders i take that first and run it back and forth across the road you would be surprised in how much gravel is on the shoulders, put the junk into your ditch then grade the road than you won't have any ridges on the shoulder allowing the water to flow not run into the ditch, don't be worried about how many passes it takes, people want good jobs done on county roads not quick jury riged jobs, great job!! ps, if you ever get a chance try out the stingers!
It sounds to me as though you are doing ok. I ran the grader for our township for 24 years. As one board member said it was a part time part time job so I ran the roads when I had time. My aim was to cover all the roads once a month. As I farmed too I sometimes would miss a month. Now that I retired some of our roads haven't been bladed for a year. The new guy leaves the road very smooth when done by just dragging a little loose material over the road. He doesn't cut any on the edges and slobbers material around the toe of the blade. The roads that he gets over look good but I think over time he will have a buildup of material on the edge so that the water can't get to the ditch. He only blades a few hours on weekends so if it rains on the weekend he misses that week and the hours he works he would need to work every weekend. I don't know what the plan is for when it snows. We have new board members that don't seem to care. The last that I worked was to push snow last winter. I had to go out for about 4 hours in April and it took 2 months for them to write me a check and then one of the board members carried it around for 3 weeks before giving it to me. My feeling has always been that if you have a job, even if it is a low pay or a volunteer one, you need to do it right or don't take it.
When we do maintenance blade work it is for private subdivisions, and always includes a roller. We usually use a water truck as well unless we have moisture from rain. I have the roller follow the blade every pass, and then work up to each side of the crown after the blade is done. I have always been curious about the cost analysis of using water truck/roller/ blade vs. blade alone. Many of our counties now water and roll each maintenance cycle, and I suspect that if the finished product lasts 2.5 times longer then the cost is about the same. The counties in our area are also using mag/chloride treatments much more frequently for dust control and longevity (typically one time in late spring will last through to fall). With proper prep and application the mag/chloride roads will cure like asphalt and last a long time without any potholes or washboard.
Sounds like the current operator is lucky he's following you. You left the roads in good condition for him. He can live on your work for a while, but eventually the roads will fall apart. Then he'll more than likely move on and they'll hire someone else. If they hire a good operator he'll attack the roads and try to get them back in shape. Then he'll get bitched at because of all the material he's moving. It's a vicious cirlce!!!
One of my board members treats the road in front of his house for dust control. He's done this for about 8 years now. I never grade over his application during Summer. Only grade that section of road during the last grading before Winter. I've noticed as the years go by his road stays in better shape. I agree that it helps for durability. Just not cost effective for our budget to attempt to treat 50 miles of roads.
We use mag/chloride on all our roads for dust control, each road gets one round, some roads are completely sprayed(higher traffic volume) others about 1/4 mile before and after houses, the roads get really hard when used, you can regrade a road that has been mag/chloride without losing the dust control it will reharden, we don't roll our roads or use water trucks, mag/chloride is really expensive to use, it is more costly to spray than it is to actually grade the road.
Nicely done... carry on indeed!
Concerning the mag treatment, our county rebuilt the five miles gravel road to our place about 15 years ago. They finished it with a mag treatment and every April come back and repeat the treatment. In between they will come in and touch up as needed when there is some moisture. This has given us a durable dust free road as long as the weather is dry. The problem is when we do get wet weather, the top inch or so turns to a slime mud that requires time spent at the car wash, (rinse only cycle), to get the crap off. The winter brings slush snow which really can be a mess as we are on low snow plow priority. When it freezes the surface can be ok, but shallow rutting can create a poor driving surface in places. It is my opinion that the county does not give the road enough crown to move the water off effectively so it tends to set and soak, then traffic creates these ruts. I suspect that the low crown profile is used because they don't want the expensive mag treatment to end up in the ditch before it penetrates. They do pre-wet the road with water trucks during the April shape up and final grading before the mag treatment. Our solution for the last three miles of private roads is a high clay content road base. Cost is about $15/ ton delivered. I can crown this sufficiently and it packs out with a durable surface that is almost as dust free as mag. After it sets, I won't touch the finished surface unless we have had enough moisture to penetrate several inches deep. This usually involves cool wet weather for several days. Timing is everything as we don't want break up a too dry surface or push mud. We started using this material to spot dump on areas that wash boarded too quickly such as hills. The results of this method required picking the blade up over those places during grading operations, which made it more difficult to feather it in. This year we decided to do continuous runs with belly dumps and the results have been much better. We were having some problems with getting the material out of the both belly and tandem dumps smoothly as they mixed it with water at the plant and clay became sticky. When we had them ship it to us dry, we had better results, but still not perfect and had to bring in a tandem to cover the thin spots. Then we would traffic and moisture settle it in for a final grading. I am a believer in this high clay road base and wonder if others here have similar experiences they can share.
Rsherril...... I can appreciate your comments. I make road base with binder content of 10 to 15 % (that again would be the material passing the #200 sieve on a sieve analysis) . Its a fine line when considering what clay (binder) is correct for a given road. I live in sand country so it works here. Anything stronger than 15% I get the greasy condition in prolonged moisture. Im not totally sold on the chloride. Like you say it works excellent in the dry periods, but with prolonged moisture it does get greasy. I've graduated to crushing the rock down to 3/4 inch and this helps with less washboarding but tends to get greasier faster than the 1 inch rock normally spec'd. I guess its a lifelong quest for the perfect aggregate mixture. Im old and running out of time...lol. Gramps
Most of our bi roads are gravel 3/4 or alittle bigger that have to pass a binding test before being put on any of our bi roads whitch in turn makes for a harder surface when it gets run in, as for a lower crown in the fall/winter season its to prevent the plows from putting more gravel than they allready do into the ditch, we don't find that mag treatment on our bi roads makes them turn to slim when it gets wet out but just the other way around prevents them from getting greasy.