Okay, so I've seen a skidder cab, I've been in one, I've read OSHA tips and safety protocol, but what do the numerous joysticks and levers in the cab really do? How do you operate one? What exactly do you do to make the machine move forwards, and then reverse? How do you winch out the cable(hope that thats the right term)? How do you choke a log? How does a choker work? I'm open to both grapple and cable skidder operation, so let it flow. I'm really interested to find out 'coz its one of my favourite machines. Thanks in advance guys!
From what I have seen a strong back and good kidneys are important to successful operation lol. Seriously though I have never run one and we are close to buying a Cat 515 to work our land so I would like some answers to these questions too.
Bell Im not familiar with the newer skidders except Wagner when I worked for Hydraulic Analysis in 2000 we built tandem pumps for their machines I saw one up close and it had a joy stick for the forward and revere and steering. It was all hydro static. I have operated a few older cats all 518 since then Ive used a 518 cat skidder/ Feller buncher converted into a landfill compactor. Its got a 2 speed shifter like a wheel loader on the shuttle shift. you twist the knob and its goes 1 23 and then forward and reverse. Ours has the controlls reversed to run a shear head. depending on the arch configuration you have a single arch grapple and then a double arch that has an articulated boom for greater lift and reaching for logs. the controll are mostly on the right hand side of the operator. then if you have a winch on you rig or its a straight cable rig you have a control for you winch thats either hydralic or pto driven. I ve oerated a few old orange Tree farmer skidders they are very small but were very popular and a re getting snatched up all the time by smaller folks here, they used GM 3 cylinders engines and Amytruck parts often fit them. They had a shuttle shifter on some and a 4 speed behind that. They had one lever that steered them and one o nthe right hand to run the blade. A choker is a nifty device. I like to keep them handy around our landfill for log moving and equipment retrieval. I also have them around my shop. They consist of a cable about 5/8th heare with a swaged metal cap on the of the cable. A casted or forged metal peice slides down the cable and when you pull it down to a log you can push the swaged end under the log and pull it around the side then slde the forged piece down to the log and insert the swaged end and give it a yank it chokes down onto the log then you winch it up.
JD 748G-III... dual function grapple: Here you go, Bellboy... you won't have to fool with chokers... I ran one of these for a couple of weeks... about two years ago. A friend was logging on some timber right next to ours... Didn't run it full time... just helped out... couldn't resist the opportunity... ran it for free and it was worth it... awesome machine... OCR
now were talking thats a skidder
If you have a grapple skidder like the on pictured than it has a lot of joystick mainly to control the arch, boom, grapple(open close), grapple rotate, then you have one for the blade, very simple machine just it can be brutle on the body
There nothing like draggin a wad of choker cables through brush, top, and mud and briars though lol. When the logging crew came to our landfill we had a pile of stumps I had pushed out of the powerline right of way. the The right of way crosses a pond levy thats on the proerty and theys a wetland behind it. The skidder operator was told several times not to disturb the piles because several of them were 24 inch white oaks. They were on our parks parking area and well out of there way. Every time we saw him we had to tell hime to stopp pushing on them. When we cam back from lunch he had pushed them over into the wet land. It was fun watching him have to drag the cable and choker out to get the the stumps back.
skidders are not a complicated machine to run, that being said, keeping them on their feet is the tough part. when we looked for a good operator we looked for the following 5 simple requirements. 1 hardhat size #2 2 boot size #14 (or larger) 3 at least 2 (preferably more) DUII citations 4 at least 2 (preferably more) reckless driving citations 5 at least 1 eluding citation this guy will get you logs and not complain about getting bounced around the inside of a steel box like a ping pong ball for 8 hours.
Once you have made the log dump where the logs will be skidded too for loading onto the trucks . It's time to go and retrieve the logs the faller has on the ground . Make sure you know where he is , you need to be sure he is not going to fall a tree on you and you need to be sure he is not lying hurt somewhere you will run over him . Keep a look out for trees that are hung up . Safety first , always in the bush . Find your log , back up as close to the butt as you can . Drop the blade and apply the park brake , make sure the machine can't move (many guys have been squashed between the log and the skidder) . Put the winch control into "free spool" pull out the rope slowly , pulling out quickly will see the drum unwind to much and the rope will be hard to spool up straight again as it will try and run over itself . Hold the choker and feed the rope under the log , bring the knob up and into the choker . Lay the choker on top of the log and get back in the skidder . If the rope is still neat on the winch drum , wind the winch in with the control lever to snug the rope and lift the butt into the bash plate on the skidder . If the log will come easy , put the machine in gear and drive off . If it is steep country you may need to drive forward with the winch "free spooling" which leaves the log behind . Once you have gone as far as you can/need , you can start winching the log whilst the brakes are applied . If the skidder is being pulled back down the slope , you may need to lift the front of the machine with the blade and bury the rear tyres into the soil to make it secure , you can also back the skidder up to a tree to make it secure . Winch the log all the way to the skidder , keeping an eye on the rope . Once the rope fills one run on the drum you need to slew the back end so that the rope feeds evenly on the next layer . Never let a rope run over itself as it will crush the rope and shorten its life . Lift the butt into the bash plate so that the butt is off the ground . This makes it easier to snig , stops a furrow being made in the soil and stops the rope from being dragged on the ground . Once at the log dump it can be dropped and unhooked . It is up to how the outfit runs weather the log is debarked with the skidder of with an excavator . The skidder driver usually helps with measuring the logs at the end of the day . Use a little foresight when dropping logs on the dump . If the trucks are going to be leaving the dump to the right , put the log butts forward on the left of the dump . So that the logs can be picked up with the loader/excavator , swung around and loaded on the truck butt forwards . This saves a lot of time , not having to spin logs around .
This is my old Clark 668C , it had a 504 V8 Cummins under the hood and sounded like a big block Top Fueler coming through the scrub , put the hairs on the back of your neck on end . Id just brought it in so i could give it a quick coat of paint over the weekend . This machine holds a record of snigging a 13 cubic metre log , a D7 would be proud of that .
Iron Horse... think me and you could stuff a 504 into a Clark 667?... :cool2 I've got both... the 504 is almost new, it resides in an old versatile 145 FWD tractor that we no longer use. The 667 has a Detroit... bring that lathe, and come on over... ... LOL OCR... PS: Nice job on your 668... looks great!!
You havn't forgotten about the lathe ..... Id say it would bolt straight in , they both would have a No. 2 or 3 SAE housing . You may need to adapt the Torque convertor . That would be a perfect use for that engine . I only drink Fosters light ice , make sure you have some in the fridge .
I've tried to... but I just can't... :crying OCR...
Thanks for all the info guys, but what I really want to know is how you first of all operate, as in drive the machine, I mean its no use knowing all the ways of choking logs, or hauling them, or loading them if you don't know how the make the machine do all that.
Whats to know? Put it in gear (they all have differant gear setups but are really all the same) release parking brake step on the gas and go. Some have sterring wheels some just a stick, it don't matter they both turn. Then drive it like you stole it. ointhead
First off , put your hands on the grab handles and get into cab . Then find key and turn it clockwise . Let go of key when you hear Broom Broom . Take left hand and move gear selector in desired direction . This could take a while Bellboy . All the info i gave you amounted to nothing ? It's a tractor for Gods sake , you have been posting a fair bit of advice for everyone else over some time on every brand of truck and tractor , surely you can get a skidder started .
Maybe this will help... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEleTqx1gSc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFc4qYgbhhw&feature=related
Good videos, libertybell7. Here's a couple more... Tigercat... what an amazing machine, might be one of the best skidders ever made. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37uyofElj0Q&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNRuVRK1t0c&feature=related OCR
Unless all those videos show someone turning the key and working the pedals and levers and explaining what they all do , it aint going to help .
Well...If I had more time I could answer more directly...But I thought those videos had some good info to start with... I will start with the first rule my Grandad told me about operating the skidder... Always keep your a** behind you when on a slope... I have never operated a Tigercat skidder but I think the rule would apply to that brand as well...
All the skidder operators I know just drive balls to the wall. So did I. When you stop moving, back up a bit, turn left and hit it again........
Tigercat videos: Will they help?... I don't know... , but they're sure fun to watch... :cool2 It's best to download and save... takes a while, but you can use Windows Media Player. The quality is a lot better, at least on my computer. I downloaded Tigercat's 2007 product line-up... Length: 11:20... (90 MB) It's a pretty interesting watch... some amazing equipment. My download speed was only 50 to 51 kb/second... as I said, it takes a while http://www.tigercat.com/video.htm OCR
Pedal to the floor and hang on tight. When you get to the top of a dropoff kick the winch into neutral and cart yourself off the edge. After you land winch your load off (don't wanna get partway down and then have your load catch up and kick your behind!). Same thing for going up cliffs. Leave your load at the bottom, claw your way up and then winch your load to you. Ran an old Clark-Ranger 666 open cab for a couple days when it was -30 out. Hell of alot of fun but MAN was it cold. That thing would go anywhere. Plus it only had like 100ft of cable so you had to get down in the holes to get the logs out. Pile yourself down off the edge backwards and hook up. Winch to the machine, neutral the cable and claw your way up a bit further then winch again. Repeat.
Good point, but I've never really started a machine. I've only ever been allowed to run a started machine. That kinda sucks. But I have started a small diesel loco, but that aint the same as something with pedals and what not. I've never been allowed to touch the start key on most machines.
I trust you aren't using the information learned here to run a skidder without permission?
hmmm. unauthorized outlaw skidder racing. that sounds like a felony.
Well , in that case you are going to have to start at the bottom where most of us had to instead of in the middle . Go and get a job with a logging contractor , for free if need be . You will start off with a broom , work up to a grease gun and a steam cleaner . After a while you will be allowed to move the machines around the yard . Keep your ears open to what experienced operators are telling you and do'nt ask dumb questions like "how fast can a skidder go" . Watch the mechanics , learn how to fix machinery , you will learn at the same time how not to kill machinery . You will then be allowed to load and unload machines off of lowboys and the guys will give you a crack at driving out in the bush . It's no different than taking on a trade , you will start off at the bottom and 4 years later you will be running the gear . Start now and tell me how you went in 4 years .
NO! Its just something I'm generally interested in. Iron Horse: Thank you for the advice, but its not like I want to go and just become a skidder operator, its just that its something I don't know how to do, and something I would like to learn. As for the job with the logging contractor, most of them are quite far out of town, so I'll have to get a job with some one closer into town, like some of the civil engineers who run their own equipment.
Pure gold Iron Horse!!! Noone is going to hold your hand... if you've got the balls, get in it at lunch time (with your foremans OK) and haul a few to the dump. No piece of equipment has a passenger seat my friend.
Bellboy, I find your Curiosity amusing, and humbling. I Suppose alot of us take it for granted, (the operation of equipment). I grew up around, and operating all sorts of equipment at a very young age. I think I was probaly about 10 years old when i started skidding Fire wood out with an Ford 8N, and manual log tongs on the 3 point draw bar. The first time i loaded a bunk of a forwarder (another type of a skidder) i was 11 or 12, my dad told me "don't do ____, you will die. don't do ____, you will die. ect. ok i am going to the house for Coffey, when you are done unload it on the log deck of the saw mill." Wow i was so intimidated, but just did it. i had enough basic understanding. after time i think a person just gets comfortable, and then earns the ability to just "make it go" it is not something you can really tell someone how to do, operating equipment is an art, you and the machine become one and it just seems to do what you want it to do. No thought required. I have operated cable skidders, grapple skidders, forwarders, slashers, dozers, farm tractors, pay loaders, skid-steers, feller buchers, processors, excavators, too many machines to remember. All different but the basics are the same.
John Deere Skidder Get in. Turn key till engine starts. Red button on the dash above your right knee is the park brake switch. It has to be off for the machine to move. Three leavers on your right hand side. Back most one is for your graple. Forward and back is for your boom left to right is for you arch. Buttons are for you graple close and open as well as for your grapple rotate. The lever that has no buttons is for your blade forward is down back is up. The last lever is the FNR. Depress the button on top of the lever and hold it down till ether in forward or reverse. when the lever is in forward or reverse side to side movement shifts gears up or down. John Deere skidders start in 3rd gear unless some one has switched the plugs around. The steering wheel is like your car. There is a accelerator(skinny) pedal and a brake pedal(wide). What ever you do do not get in a skidder and try to start or run it because you have no clue and will wind up getting your self hurt or killed or any body that is around hurt or killed.
My advice to a novice. Most machines have an operator's manual. Use it first! If it hasn't a manual, buy one, first. This is a very handy book especially for a beginner to use as a guide. It should be consulted first and when necessary. Operation and safety rules, service safety rules, general safety rules, machine components, controls and instruments, gauges and instruments, differential locks, lubricants and fuels, periodic service, fire prevention maintaince, transporting, attaching cable to winch if used, grapple use if used, use of a frame locking bar, and various adjustments are examples of things usually discussed for you in an operator's manual. Remember that different manufacturers' products are made to be operated in specific ways. Even the engines used on skidders differ and may require specific operation and maintainace procedures. You should be familiar with pre-start inspection procedures for that particular machine. Many, but not all, use diesel engines, which may require running at idle for a few minutes before shut-down to prevent engine damage or they may employ a specific style of engine warm-up period before operating. The manual may discuss that particular machine's hydraulic system, too. Some systems require relieving the hydraulic pressure in a specified manner, for example, when parking the skidder. Such information may help you keep a machine running and you safer.
At last somebody told him to read the Instructions.But like most do wait till all else fails.
John Deere This is a good one to learn on Make sure the trees are over 161/2 foot apart.
I can imagine the sinking feeling , doing a walk around that tractor and finding one of the inside tyres/tires flat .
That wasn't to bad.We cared the Tire Repairmans phone number with us.But it was no fun for him.That Machine run for a year like that with no flats. I think somebody told the Operator if he had a flat he had to fix it.
I have to keep remembering that being an operator is a serious skill, and you are pretty much born with it and it develops over your life. I asked my faller to move our 748G-II Deere, he came over 10 min later and couldn't get it. He's got 30 years in the woods. I started in a sand-box and loaded my first load of logs at 6 to white faced truck driver. I was born into a logging family and had more opportunities then most. There's still that warm/fuzzy feeling you get when you can get equipment to work safely at their max capacity. Bellboy, see if you can find a job at an equipment auction yard. When logging slows down in spring I head to the nearest RB auction and help in the yard. It's a load of fun and you get to "play" on everything. You get time to try things out, without have to worry about production.
I ran a old Clark 666 for awhile years ago. not a bad lil rig. Watched one do a complete barrel roll in midair befor...was interesting
Doublebit. You are 100% right. I've been readin this in awe wondering how someone couldn't understand how to start a rig. I grew up in the woods as well. Started skiddin with a a bald-faced D7G grapple rig when I was really young. After being around it all your life it's like breathing. So for some of us it's hard to comprehend how anyone could not know lol. Bellboy. It's not much diffrent than starting a car. It's just a car you can smash cars with lol
yep thats it. Yreka? I grew up in happy camp, started logging from the day i was born. I have a bunch of family in yreka. Small world.
668 had 504 Cummins, 668C had 555 Cummins. 667C had 378 V6 Cummins as option. 504 would be a tight fit (V8), probably have to move engine mounts and get shorter drive shaft or push the front end out a little. Trans and convt are the same in both machines. 668 and 668C had bigger axles and bigger Rad, could have heating problems and depending on tire size and ground conditions, could have axle life problems. You might try the "Forestry Forum" for more info on operating. Link below: http://www.forestryforum.com/
ya I moved up here from Quincy a few years to run stroker. My pop's logged up in this area most his life. I remember commin up here with him when i was small. We're workin out in Scott's Valley right now
There is only one way to run a skidder as I was told first time I was thrown in a cab of a 668C foot hard on the gas and dont touch the brakes!!!!!!
Also.....If you don't at least try to flop it every other turn.....your not doin it right .......what brakes?
Hold it to the floor and keep it there
Don't let Fear and Common Sense hold ya back , Wood it down and get it to town.
One of the biggest mistakes I saw made back in the day was to actually sit in the driver's seat. Back then, skidders were like scrapers: you kind of half-sat, half stood behind the controls, so that when you bottomed out hard, you did not have to stop and scrape your kidneys off the floorboard. Back then, skidders were made to do two things: pull logs to the landing, and kill the operator. Actually, we called the landing the deck down South here. I liked the old Timberjacks most of all, partially for the steering lever in lieu of a steering wheel, and partially for the suspension. Too bad the winches seemed to suck on a TJ. I'm not an experienced skidder operator, but I also ran a few Franklins, most of which had already been worn out four or five times. That was a prerequisite in the North Carolina woods back then for any skidder. I often wondered who had to do the dastardly deed of breaking in a new machine for the first 20 years or so. I also wondered where I had to sign up for that.....
The 668's never had much for brakes anyway. The 668B's spent a lot of time on their roof too. But, like the man said, you can't make any money with all four wheels on the ground.
I had an old man that ran skidder for me for a few years. He was the best skidder driver I ever had. He was steady. He did not run in the highest gear, but he was steady. Sometimes, trying to go too fast will just ruin the machine. A steady pace is the best.
Keep 2 things in mind... Everyone has posted so much usefull information in this thread, and, although it's an old thread, I'd like to add a few ideas for thought if you haven't aquired a more health oriented occupation Bellboy, If you have heavy equipment experience then the basic machine functions will come quickly. As already posted, you'll need to used caution in order to stay alive/healthy ect. when driving a skidder your main objective (other than safety) will be to learn how to ' get the wood - out of the woods Depending on geographical location, skidder drivers need to obtain a knowledge of the terrain. You'll need to keep track of where the timber cutter (saw operator- feller buncher ect) is located. (If you work with a crew that uses chainsaws to fell timber then your #1 duty is to know where the saw operator is - Human life is more valuable than a big, pretty; high $ log!!! ). The trucks need to be loaded when there is enough of that type wood at the loader to load ' that truck' . Trucks need to be loaded quickly so if there is not enough of ' that type wood ' at the loader, then you'll need to search through the timber already felled to drag that type of wood to the loader in order to load that truck quickly. Remember, the trucks sometimes make long trips to deliver the load to the mill, specified by type of wood , sometimes several hundred mile trip
Interesting... It seems you do selective felling (terminology?) of natural forests (concept?), whereas down here we grow genii like pine, eucalyptus and acacia for our commercial timber needs; pine for saw-logs (mostly), eucs for pulp and paper, acacia for bark and timber (timber is crooked, sometimes you can get a load into the pulp mills, other days take it to a charcoal burner). Anyway, use of skidders in this country is mostly limited to pine tree length operations, with a few used in extracting eucalyptus short round wood. Since starting this thread I have indeed gained some operating experience, although not on timber equipment, mostly just TLB's and tractors and the like, and discovered timber is not quite my thing anymore (as much as it is my brother's, who's help was needed to give the detail on forestry ). Anyway, thank you for all your comments.
Our company usually clears cuts everything, then the land is re-set, so very little selective felling other than 'Select Cut', oak hardwood logs, which are saved till last to be cut by chainsaw only. (feller buncher tears the woods grain too severe to use it for these cuts). I drove a skidder when I lived in Ocala FL at our horse farm and understand about the crooked tree species down there. Aggravating to deal with on a skidder!!! IMO, you were very wise not to pursue a job driving a skidder. I'ts a hard job that requires the physical ability to withstand being thrown around violently inside that cab all day long. The skidder man is the only person who has to work every minute of the day (other than lunch break). I've been driving for 21 years and still have spots from hitting stumps for 10 hrs today.
Yep, that's a felony, and I'd like to find out who took a Sunday joy ride on my skidder a couple of weeks ago and let the front tire catch the door , which we can't afford to replace. So this endangers my life daily having to run it with the door tied shut with a strap because it will no longer close to latch. At least they didn't run it into the lake or shoot it up like some instances I've seen in the past. Gee, sure are a lot of people who discredit loggers/logging, but they don't complain about the wood that built their house, or the toilet paper they wipe the butt with. Go figure...
A wise man indeed, especially if you understand the cost of equipment repair. In the past, Cat, (which is what we have always used) seemed to always have the most expensive machine repair parts on the planet, but now days all the other equipment manufacturers seem to have followed Cat. Gee, no wonder why most of the logging company's around these parts have closed the doors. My boss is a very few $ from loosing our company. So, seeing as how I need a job, I drive my skidder very conservatively. Hell, in addition to my needing a job, I'd certainly rather drive it than work on repairing it!!! JMO