Using neighbors 850 l case to move dirt around new shop. Was pushing dirt about 180 to 200 ft. Got to thinking how far was the magical number you could economically push dirt . 200 ft seemed just about the farthest I could move it in a reasonable amount of time. Let me know what you think and do. Merry Christmas
Wellll, I will take a shot. My opionion anyway. First, merry christmas. Theres a break in the action here and dont know why i came here but here i am. There are many more experienced on this site with a better feel for the economics of moving dirt. I dont know if there is a definitive answer to the question. Too many factors. Size of machine, blade configuration, conditions, quantity, operator experience, quality/texture/moisture of the dirt all have a bearing. Does a person want or need compaction. Are you cutting, grading, or bulk pushing and can you do it in a slot. What is the time/cost associated with moving in a different machine. Lots of considerations. Sometimes you gotta just use what you brought to the party. Im sure a larger dozer moves dirt more efficiently at longer distances as a general rule and seems most of my work can be done with more beef than less. Yea, probably over analyzing this so heres my answer. I hope others share. For a 45000# machine, as a general rule if i have to move much dirt over 300' i start thinking seriously about hooking up the tractor and scraper. Good luck.
What other machines do you have at your disposal to move this dirt?
Here if even around 200' most will bring in pans and FWD articulated or tracked machines. Dozer is too slow, moves considerable but not masses of material, too hard on UC while running in Rev, loaders do not move enough at one time then Dumps and Excavators require more manpower.
In my opinion, it depends on machine availability,timing, and manpower. Around here Iam mostly a 1 person show,so I push and push. My days of hopping in and out of machines and dump truck is quickly getting harder to do.
You would be best to invest in a pair of drag pans and a Articulated Tractor, get double duty of the tractor and can supply a service using the pans.
I would assume most cases are run what you brung.
Cost to move, demove tractor, cost to run tractor by the hour. Cost to move and demove scraper, cost to run scraper per hour. Tandem dump trucks per hour, something to load them per hour. At what point does the ability of the tractor to move material by the hour become more expensive or equal to the other options?
Years ago I was told that a dozer starts losing it's efficiency after 100 ft.
Around here, tractors and scrapers are roaded for the most part, to and from the job site..
As I said using my neighbors dozer. He was most gracious to loan it to me I have ran lots of equipment before. All I own is a bobcat,tractor and box blade and a dump trailer. I use this in my construction business. Pushing dirt 100 ft one direction and 80 ft at a right angle. Been a while since I’ve ran a dozer so it’s taken me awhile to relearn everything. Especially in a dozer this nice not used to cab and a/c and coming home not covered in dirt.
To me, at least where I live, a tractor is a dozer. A farm tractor is the one with wheels. Scrapers are not common here anymore, but we did walk them from job to job. There used to be a distance, say for grubbing on a highway job, with a D8 tractor with a u blade, shoving into a bullpen. It was a fair distance. A good tractor man could almost shove a wiggle wagon worth of grubbings in one bladefull. After that it was a hoe, a couple w wagons, and a smaller tractor, a 6 or 7 shoving up.
Working in a couple of small coal mines running D8, D9 and Komatsu D375 dozers, we figured that 300 feet was the longest push that made economic sense. There are caveats to that number though. The Komatsu was pushing to two loaders on a face ripping and pushing glacial till and shot sandstone down hill. The most that machine would handle was about 200 feet but a good operator could bury two 988B wheel loaders. The machine was working nearly straight up and down the face of the cut. We used a D9 pushing uphill to a 980 wheel loader in an earlier mine and that was about 100 to 200 feet and it worked OK. We cleaned off dump sites with a D8 and pushed about 200 feet at most spreading 50 ton haul truck loads on about a 2 to 1 slope. It all changed when we reclaimed though. We used two D8s and the D9G to reclaim at the first mine I worked at and that work was closer to 500 feet. The slopes had to be put back to original contour which would have been steeper than a haul truck would have been able to handle. We didn't have access to scrapers so they were never considered. At any rate what I learned from the mining engineers at the second mine I worked at was that it all just depended on the situation and knowing what it cost you to run the machines. Sometimes you don't have a choice and have to use what you have. I can say from experience that running three dozers side by side can push a whole lot of dirt in an eight hour day.
Am I correct in assuming a u shaped blade can contain more in front of it than a straight blade or it used for a different purpose?
Yeah the sides are swept forward more than a straight rock blade. I think some machines can tilt the blade back a bit to keep the material in place. I used to watch some guys make a slot in the ground, and push the material along the slot to keep it in front of the blade as well. I've done it plowing snow, but never much with a tractor.
Finished up today. Should have taken photo of it before. Ditch was about 100 ft long and 8 ft deep. We are building a 40 by 100 by 17 tall shop with a 800 sq ft apartment in one end. Trying to down size from large house.
While I had the dozer I thought I might as well dig a pond.
200 feet does not seem that bad, like everyone stated very situational. As was also said the dozers there use it there are more economical ways of doing it right of the get go however if I’m dozing or doing anything honestly I start doing one thing then I see stuff along the way that I can or should do, problems happen, sometimes you get lucky. to answer the question if I had to haul one pile from one spot to another 200 feet away would be okay. 300 feet I’d start to get depressed and 400 feet I would seek other options. Better situation I go farther worse I don’t haha
We have pushed dirt 600 feet on lakes but everything was steep and deep gullies. Don't have any tractor pans so a dozer or 973 loader has to do. On the average it seems we can always beat rate. Maybe getting ready to start a big lake with 70,000 yards in the dam but again the hills are steep. I know most aren't used to a loader but a 973 will move a lot of anything in a day.
Nearly 5 yd bucket on 973? Know the 963s we use can break four heaped
Kind of run what you brung. Cost to me for 4 days work was 40 dollars for diesel and 2 tubes of grease. Helps to have good neighbors.
Did have better luck by cutting a slot and keeping most of the dirt inside of it.
16 degrees here in central Oklahoma. Here’s another question how cold is to cold to move dirt? Seems if it was to cold all you would be moving is clumps of dirt without being able to compact it. As for me I’ll be inside by the fire today.
Again with cold… it depends wind, sun snow or rain and if frost is already in the ground. You can also get away with compaction as long as ur getting to it fast so if you got five piles to do at once by the time your hitting your last pile might be no good. it would be a gamble working in cold weather too you have to be smarter and lucky everything get more expensive in freezing temps so max cold for also being able to get some form of compaction anywhere from -5 to -10 Celsius at -10 it would have to be sunny. if you have a crew , water and tarps you could beat the cold but don’t think we’re talking same game at that point
Stacked frozen dirt will usually turn to mud. To much frozen dirt in a dam will settle terrible. Seems best to me to not start any of my equipment when it's 20 degrees or lower.
If you could move continuously I think -15 C with no wind. That would be clay. If you want to pack on continuous cold days you would have to scrape off the layer of frozen dirt in the morning before you start again. Not always worth it.
It was a rhetorical question.
We shut down almost completely in winter. Keeping the asphalt plant going in the fall is not cost effective. Trying to pave on frozen ground causes the moisture in the submaterial to turn to steam and blow holes in the mat resulting in a terrible job. Working with gravel is possible, but if you need to cut the grade down a couple inches, you pretty much have to cut all the frost out, and build it back up again. Anything done in the late fall and winter is always going to require a touch up in the spring. Besides snow operations, it's mostly rough ground operations. A job started today to remove a wooden pipeline that used to supply fresh water to the local paper mill. It's about 15kms or 9 miles. It was put into the bid to allow cleanup in the spring. The frozen ground should hold up better under the rock trucks. Plan is to use the wiggle wagons to haul to 3 different sites where they can dump the wood, and reload material for backfill. The wood will be reloaded onto dump trailers and hauled to the landfill as it is creosote coated.
Sure wish we could still buy/get that!
That mill has been shut down for over ten years, but that pipeline has been in the ground since the late 50s, and it still looks like new
I am no expert but one of the biggest contractors here did a job were he pushed dirt 400 feet to a stock pile it was next to a good gravel road he has dump trucks and scrapers . Him and his guys do stuff like this all the time but his company keeps growing. I saw another guy that had been doing dirt work for over 40 years he bid a job and the land owner told him it was going to be bad and he should rebid it but he stuck with his bid. After it was done he said it took 4 times longer than he thought it would he stuck to his bid but the land owner payed him some extra. I dont think i am all that smart till i see others doing stuff
Dozing distance? Depends on how its done.
You get caught with your pants down every now and then. That's the college education you are paying for. Lake we built last summer had a pond in it we had to get rid of. Didn't think much of it but whoever built it pushed all the black dirt up in the dam. It was 12 to 15 foot of pure mud. We might of broke even on our bid but there was no extra. Next one will bid different.