Fuel up $0.89 this last week, fuel man says that when he dumps the truck on Monday, road fuel is going to be $5.75. It's been holding steady at $4.75 since March, but now it's going to get real. Friend of mine says some guys he's talking to are saying it'll be $7+ by June. What price do you all think is going to blow things up? At some point, something is going to have to give. Anyone changing any plans yet?
We're already at $2.45/L here in Ottawa. That's just over 7 usd per Gal. It's insane. Monday morning we're sending out notices to clients that there's going to be a fuel surcharge. Not much we can do about it. We can't absorb that kind of spike.
I've already added a $5/hour fuel surcharge, and its about to double.
I have to add more than $5 to come out even. For instance, I started figuring after red fuel hit $3, and on the hoe that uses around 5 gph, my scale is $5 for $3+ fuel, $10 for $4+, and $15 for $5+. I sincerely hope I don't have to use a $20 for $6.
The answer to the most important part of the question is when does it blow everything up? I certainly don't know but at some point, probably not far off, we are going to find out. The cost of doing business, is going to outpace anyone willing to do business. What makes it all even worse is it doesn't have to be like this and we all know it. At least about 70% of the Country knows it, the other 30% is too stupid to understand. I don't know how this is going to end, but we have 2.5 years of executive orders to go. I am guessing it will have to get a lot worse, before anyone changes direction, if they ever do. A lot of people are and will continue to suffer. The music is going to stop, hopefully we here have chair to sit in when it happens.
Diesel has went back down a bit from it's peak but sitting between 1.60-1.70L however the government here took off 13 cents a liter tax to help lower it a bit. I have jumped all my hourly rates 10% from last year but I rarely do hourly work anyway. Bid prices i've increased a bit but still honoring anything quoted before that, the cost of fuel is pretty minor for most jobs. I jumped my hourly trucking 5/hr anticipating guy who does my trucking would jump rate but he hasn't said anything which really surprises me. Bin prices haven't changed either yet. It's busy right now and i'm happy to do as much jobs coming my way as I can as they are still paying well but I don't see it lasting the summer before it really slows down. With interest rates climbing so fast I think housing is going to fall on it's face pretty quick.
I'll be a little more clear. All the cranes went up $15/ hour at the first of the year, I was just trying to get ahead of the inflation, everyone got a raise and all my parts etc. cost more. When fuel first went up, I added the $5 fuel surcharge. So I'm actually up $20/ hour on everything since the first of the year. Which is why I'm still trying to hold back on the $10 for the fuel surcharge. I may have to do another raise for everyone this summer.
Like a lot of us, obviously the price of fuel is not going to be the fiery crash, the lack of work is. We all know that infrastructure can never stop. Roads, water, and sewer all have to march on. But, the rest of it isn't required for the world to turn. I can raise rates or add surcharges or just leave things the same, but what I'm wondering is where does the general public say "I'm done"? I'm in the process of purchasing another machine, as the workload the last couple years and forecast for this year are dictating it, but if the work stops, I'll be screwed. I realize that this is nothing unique to my location, but I'm just curious if any one else is having second thoughts right now, or where they think their hard limit is.
I think fuel will go down. Every time fuel gos up scrap iron gos up then scrap iron will drop bad fuel will go down. Its the only thing i ever saw that you could about bet on. Scrap iron dropped bad last week.
To put it in perspective-For a 57 truck fleet like ours, the fuel bill jumped $225,000 per month on average. That includes refer fuel.
I’m getting the largest dollar wise raises I’ve ever gotten but the most meaningless raises in that my purchasing power for my wage is the same or more likely less than it was when I made $4/hr less. It’s gonna all collapse at some point. I never wanted to live through a time like my grandparents did during the Great Depression but it’s not like I get a say in the matter. I’m just here for the ride.
Went up 12 percent across the board and prices first of the year gave raises I am trying hard to hold but not looking possible Money has slowed considerably in payment to me in the last 7 months a lot my customers are saying the same thing This quarter is a lot flatter for us then the first so I already see it slowing down and not so much in direct demand but in ability to schedule and maintain dates we had 3 weeks in the last month we lost 30 percent of billable time do to schedule not being kept cause no one has concrete We have stopped all growth plans at this point and are focused on taking on niche jobs and no more equipment purchases for the foreseeable future I hate to say it but there is going to be a lot of people put out of buissness soon because they are making record revenues and lowest profit and no one can stay ahead of it
When I was in high school a friends dad was a economics professor at CWU he explained it this way. It's a unwritten idea/theory that a unemployment figure below 5% is not good despite common thought. It causes people to job jump for higher wages which causes inflation. And so is a situation like we have right now of too many not wanting to work causing wages to rise because business trying to keep employees. He explained it can be a double edged sword. Unemployment figures that hang in the 5 to 6% range actually keep a even keel so to speak, and having unemployment at 5% is a necessary evil.
I seriously doubt things can continue the way they are going. I think we all can see the writing on the wall... but what’s to be done? Charge ahead as usual and risk being caught ill prepared if/when things come tumbling down? Or plan for the worst and risk missed opportunities/growth when things don’t slow/crash? Hey, if I could accurately predict the future I’d be in a completely different position in life! Good luck to you all... as for me I’m focused on limited growth and paying off as much debt as possible.
I have lived through some times that were not so good the worst part was having to hear how bad things were .
The other thing to all this there has not really been a real market correction in over a decade you have an entire generation of working age folks that have not been through a recession on there own and because of that there lack of understanding to cash is king and debt is dangerous A couple of the real young guys like 23 and under that work for me dont think prices will ever come back down and that they can have another job for more money tomorrow they are especially I'll prepared for a slow month not to mention a slow quarter
Diesel here was $5.29 here yesterday. That is the highest I've ever seen it here. Nothing will be left, for anyone, if we have to do another 2.5 years of this.
It really is sad and disgusting how only a select few politicians can make so many millions of people suffer, when it doesn't even have to be like this. One strike of a pen can HALF fuel price in a week! I have noticed things are for sale cheap, because no one is buying. They are too tied down trying to pay the bills! There is no way the economy can survive this. Next will come more "government aid" because.....shocker.....people can't pay! They print money, we see even more inflation, and the revolving door continues. I'm sure folks on here realize, it is not just about the bill at the pump! Every good sold is tied to fuel costs. Farmers everywhere are getting rocked!
Please explain how. Road tax is only about 20% of fuel cost here, and we're only talking about clear fuel.
I have read several books on TGD, these are the two best. Should be required reading in schools.
You guys ain't seen diddly squat yet. Wait till after the mid-terms. Germany has been asked to hold off on prohibiting Russian energy until after the mid-terms. Once that's over with, Germany will withdraw from energy agreements with Russia and begin to purchase off the world market. There's another consumer and one less supplier. You don't have to be an economics professor to see the implications. On top of that, do you think there is any reason to maintain fuel tax forgiveness, not until next election cycle.
I'm not hoping things slow down, but i'm at the point if things continue crazy or drop i'm going to benefit either way. I've sold 3/4 of my houses (no more dealing with renters!), was trying to sell my CTL but got tired of lowballers might try again. With interest rates going up fast, cash is king and much easier to make good returns with it. It's crazy how much many trade prices have went up and how busy people are. There are people digging basements like crazy even on sundays, it's insane. Won't catch me doing it though. I know I wouldn't be buying any equipment right now unless I had some guaranteed long term contracts locked up or something like that. The guys who are not piled up in debt will survive the slowdown and probably stay reasonably busy and will be able to find employees really easy. Because if the work available drops 50% tomorrow, there will be non stop companies folding and so many less around to do the work. I really feel for the guy who does my trucking, he just spend $1 million adding pickups and equipment to expand from just dump trucks. If things go down he's going to be in a lot of trouble.
Which should mean oil places like here get absolutely stupid busy but it will never happen. They will get oil from unethical places like saudi arabia, venezuela, anywhere but Canada. And as soon as the stuff with russia is over give it a few months and they will go back to buying their oil.
The current administration is on a clean energy kick, no matter how much or who it hurts. The EPA standards set for 2026, I think are currently unattainable. No carbon credits, no I produce 175k turbo 4-bangers now let me make 2 dozen 8 cylinders. Those days are gone. And diesel, they're pricing it out of existence. Fossil fuels are gonna be just like R12, electric is the new R134a and nobody's thought about what the next R1234y is gonna be. The greenies win, and we lose. I'm still not sold on global warming. Friggin boondoggle is what it is.
Sad to consider I dare say TS is correct, we sit at a juncture of topple over if something does not change. Interest rates get stupid as in the 80s, banks mergers get stupid, loans get called that are seen as Chancey and then all hell breaks loose. Autos are out of sight price wise, property taxes have gone insane due to escalated speculation, then the jobs market is tanked and transport of products in jeopardy. My boss was offered a 2022 Pete leftover day cab tandem X15 Progressive shift 13 on air ride similar to a truck he purchased in Nov last year, price was UP $30k.
Let's all try to stay on topic, we all know that we all have ideas on who's to blame, but none of us are going to change any other's mind no matter what we type on here. I started this thread to see what other guys in other parts of the country are planning to do both short-term, and long-term. I'd have felt alot better about spending $200k on an excavator last year, and probably should have, but hindsight is always 20/20.
But chances are that machine will be worth a lot less in the next 6-12 months then what it was last year even. Guy who I said spent 1 million bucket paid $100k each for 2 F450's loaded and $30k a piece for 2 3x10k gooseneck trailers, then 2 CTL's, and 3 mini ex's. He was even considering a 200 hoe, said it was $300k all said and done with no thumb just extra bucket and ripper that was all Cat stuff. IMO if only needed here and there i'd rather rent equipment this year. Sure there's a chance things stay ok this year, but prices will still come down once supply chains are back. But i'd say more then likely there will be no shortage of deals on equipment pretty quickly.
You're the first I've heard say stuff will be worth substantially less going forward. I have been renting, but I'm tired of spending $40k a year on rent and not making any ground. Also, interest is not going to stay where it's at, in fact if I wouldn't have gotten a qoute from my banker bank in January, interest today would be around 5.5, and it's certainly not going to be that next year. If I don't do it now, *if* I can find the same deal next year, it would end up costing me an extra $14k in interest alone over the life of the loan.
Interesting thing about the southwest is track housing is all built with tile roofs witch needs Portland to make so anyway tile is on backorder right now so it's becoming more of a thing that houses are framed and waiting for roof tile to load the structure so the can top out and drywall and of course stucco this causing delays well over a month so on average right now if you buy a track house it's a year to move in do you think anyone last summer was thinking about these interest rates when they signed My generation has never experienced historical standard interest rates so once above 6 percent for a house I dont think people are ready for that and they cant afford that interest on these prices I see commercial having the same problem here with delays and rising interest there is no way to maintain a budget There is no cure for high prices like high prices
Once supply chains resume used prices will absolutely drop as new inventory rates go up they will cut prices to move stock. Interest rates it's hard to say, and the increases could offset the decrease in equipment cost. If I was buying cash, I would totally wait. But financing, it's tougher to say. I think if you can buy and know it would still make sense to own if prices come down and things slow down it might make sense to buy with that kind of rental cost. My numbers for my CTL were like $38k if I sell it, i'd probably only spend $4k a year renting to replace it, and I can make a pretty decent return on the $38k I have freed up.
That's weird, no concrete shortage here it's one of the few things you can get easily and hasn't increased in price that much. The big shortage is overhead doors, 6-8 months wait time. Cabinets are taking like 4 months. Around here they are building in less then 4 months, some I bet are 3 months. They are going absolutely nuts slapping them up. A few builders doing pre-fab so house is framed and in some cases shingled, and sided within a few days. For interest rates some builders here take draws so the people can save their rate, but within a few months once the rate holds are over I think sales are going to come to a halt. High prices and rates above 4% it doesn't make sense to buy.
It's going to keep going UP until you go "All electric".....
You forgot the golden years under Jimmy ? It was allot worse. Bring on the "government cheese".....
Face it the housing prices have been inflated for a long time now. The Fed left the interest rates too low for too long. The Fed by leaving interest rates at low levels took away the last lever to pull when a economic correction is on the horizon. Several things economically and on the world stage make a perfect storm. In the early 80's when interest rates hit 21% people reeled in-stopped speculating and tightened there pocket books and waited it out. It's what will happen this time around also. Here are some examples of history repeating it's self. It's what is going on right now. https://www.thoughtco.com/causes-of-the-great-depression-104686
Oh my god. The sky is falling!!!!! Stay calm, monitor and adjust. We have all weathered storms before and it sounds like ya’ll are already making plans to get through whatever is coming.
Most of us old farts had home loans, some of us had business loans in the 80s. Are nowhere near to sky falling in yet but are working that general direction.
I agree-problem people got use to the low interest rates as being the norm. I can remember in the 80's people thought 6.5 to 7 was great. Even and steady always wins the race.
Of course. I would bet most companies who are run well, have established a good list of clients, and not drowning in debt will likely only feel a small ripple at most. It's just the one's who think now is the time to expand or buy a bunch of new equipment that will be hurting.
Having the ability to store everyday commodities and buying when prices are low helps one weather the bad times such as these. The writing was on the wall just some thought in disbelief it was going to happen since the media likes to hyper inflate the media. Somewhere between where when this just started and now one should had plenty of time to stock up. Yeah not everyone can stock up on bulk fuel but any prepping by stocking up negates some of the inflation of things you couldn't stock up. I stocked up on bulk fuel for my own projects back when it was below $4 a gallon, still sipping on it and I know it will eventually hit $5.50 to $6 a gallon for diesel as it always goes up come Memorial Day so each trip in town I'm hauling back 100 gallons and will stop when it hits $5.50. Got about 750 gallons of diesel to burn through but it's enough to weather this out, get all my projects done for myself and if not I will park the equipment till it drops down again. As for customers I will forewarn them, you are eating the fuel bills on these projects and they fluctuate with the market.
They’re a bit optimistic with estimated inflation at only 4.3% this year... don’t ya think?
I don't owe a damn thing so I'm not to concerned. The car is a 2017 with only 11,000 miles on it, I paid cash for that.
Old article, it's already been broken My properties are paid off, vehicles are all paid in cash, no credit cards yep I'm sitting pretty. I just find different ways around building supplies to keep building here if they are too expensive.
And the last time the tank was filled was last September.
Some of you can take this any way you want, but I find it kind of funny that those who have not a single horse in this race are poking fun by downplaying the situation, or bragging about how smart you think you are by having your tanks full and no debt. Well, pretty hard to build and maintain a business without debt, and a lot of us weren't in business in the 80s, or our family lost their *** and we had to go it from scratch. So, to those that have shared their opinion and what they are currently doing or planning, thank you.
I’m betting those that are in that position have worked their asses off getting there and maybe have earned some bragging rights. not me tho... I’m late to the game and still very much on the grind
Shimmy no one is poking fun at the situation, We don't travel and waste gas. Anyone employed is at risk if the business owner makes a foolish decision. Hopefully that doesn't happen, but reality is--.
I started off at 17 years old living on the streets behind a pool hall for couple of years, I have since retired from one career at age 38 (military) while picking up clients for side jobs that expanded to over 20 that had my hands in everything mechanical one can think of from fishing vessels to manure spreaders, all the while building what I have here. I have since moved on from all those clients and started another side hustle that I run a few pieces of machinery at too. With a 977K Cat loader, backhoe, dump truck, semi and counting on equipment I will acquire I very much have a "horse in this race" . All I have listed is paid off too and I'm only 40 years old (almost 41). I had to start over from scratch and lost my arse in a divorce and after being sued.
I know there are rules regarding politics, I'm not preaching one side or the other. All I'm saying is remember all this when you cast your ballots. We need to reign in all the alphabet agencies.
Last time this happened one of the things that kept us going was being diversified in what we did and offered. I have been able to maintain that or increase it since the 2008. We now do a fair amount of Gov. work on top of light commercial and residential. Hopefully, we can keep moving as things slow down. Competition will be tough, countless new companies showing up, everyone will be fighting to keep their economic lives, alive. I am not looking forward to what comes next.
Hey I hear you dad talks about the 80s quite fondly cause he started in 79 and all through the 80s he couldn't afford to borrow money I have had debt still have some but have been able to cash flow most of our growth in the past few years I look at it this way I can handle financing new iron but used iron we pay cash and if it I cant get 50 percent utilization a year out of it then I dont need new witch puts me back to cash or rental and right now you can forget rental 2 week waiting list minimum for anything si we have been shopping hard for the diamonds in the rough machines cosmetically need work mechanically in ok shape and plan to have to drop some money to go to work with it that approach has suited me well so far I really do believe equipment prices are going to drop a lot in the next 8 to 12 months but if you can keep a machine busy the rest of the year because you have it today you might be better off with the machine I know the ag market doesnt trend the same as residential or even commercial for that matter so you might be in a better spot than most of us dirt guys I know if things sour residential not going to be busy for a while we are on some appartment projects that are pretty likely to go no matter what the economy does I also have really developed our small end of the buissness for doing TI work in a recession commercial remodels pick way up also one of my customers does a lot of civil infrastructure for the feds so I could probably find a small piece of that pue if I really needed to but not sure if that will be worth it My market here now is saturated with tilt warehouses and 2 big microchip plants the warehouse work will stop if things get ify so there are a lot of companies that will get hurt over night because that's all they do is 100 thousand square foot plus buildings I like my chances because we are diversified and dont just chase one style of work Diversification of customer base is the best defense against a bare market and I think that's the big one and be prepared for sporadic cash flow
Aziron, I help a farmer friend of mine, but that's as far as I go in ag. Maybe you're referring to my customer base being predominantly ag? Four years ago he let me take the reins of the business I built with his financial backing. I owned the scraper already, had purchased the 1150G that spring, he sold me the tractor that pulls the scraper and it was off to the races. I've been renting the 210 from him, which I will continue to do since we've grown to the point where I need two hoes. In the last two years I've also purchased a second tractor and scraper, two trucks, and my own service truck and tilt trailer for hauling the skidder and attachments. I still use his RGN, but I pay for all normal maintenance and our relationship is such that we don't worry about it much further than that. I help him for a couple months in the spring, mainly because he needs the help, and I feel I owe it to him for helping me get to this point. Bottom line, I'm just asking questions to gauge the feeling of other guys around the country. Whether it's Joe down the road with a mini, a skidder, and a dually, or Mr. Johnson who owns 100 machines and does $10M a year in revenue, we're all in the same boat. By that I mean none of us except the guys that have guaranteed contracts for the next 5 years really know what the future the holds, but at this point in time I feel like I'm up against the wall. I've spent $60k on rent in the last 4 years, and with the work I have lined up this year, I couldn't see giving another $35k away that I could put towards ownership. But, like KSSS said, if the music stops, I sure hope to hell there's a chair left for me.
Sounds like your in a solid place there are 2 things I have learned in the growth of my buissness over the last 6 years and buying out my parents First is and probably most important is that it's ok to turn down work at the standpoint of it's no longer healthy for your buissness to expand until x y and z are taken care of and it doesnt matter if your paying cash or not at certain points growth can be harmful and the economy is not necessarily the driver for what can get you The other is how much debt you carry my principle is no more than 20 percent of my assets can be on payments I do around a million a year in revenue my stand still overhead only requires 8 machine days a month to break even right now we are doing 70 machine days a month and this allows me to sleep great at night no matter the economy I learned 4 years ago in a cash flow pinch that no amount of anything was worth my peace so I dont put my self in leveraged positions Your mileage may very and what keeps me up at night might not bother you so take that with at least one grain of salt
One of the things I learned from my fathers business is even if all assets are paid for and such that it’s still easy to be hurting during rough times. His was a completely different business than construction but I remember going down to his shop with him back in the day during a similar time as the present and for weeks having work that we finished in a few hours and having nothing to do for the rest of the day, just standing by the phone and hoping his customers called in with more work. Seeing the stress and worry he went through to get the job done, keep the business running, and support the family pretty much soured me on owning a business as my primary income. I’d wager everybody here is quite worried about r what’s coming down the road.
This kind of explains things. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MesrrYyuoa4
I don't carry a lot of debt, but I do have some. It would be pretty dumb to me if anyone is not concerned with the state of things at this point in time. As a safety, I'm in the process of setting up a line of credit with my bank using non-essential capital to collateralize it. I'm not going to be caught with my pants down again like I was after 9/11. I have no plans to use it, but I want to know its available if worse comes to worst. Anything I need I pay cash for..............if I don't have the cash then I don't need it. My home and property are paid for so I can weather quite a bit if I have to. My problem back in the day was being too credit dependent. When 9/11 happened, my work disappeared overnight and didn't recover for years. I wasn't diversified enough at the time either so once the construction bubble burst here it was all over. Funny thing about creditors......they are your best friend when times are good but, they are your worst enemy when things go south. Within 2 years I had lost everything to my creditors and NONE of them gave a dam. I promised myself that I would NEVER place myself in that position again EVER. I diversified A LOT, and I worked with my own money. To this day I trust no banker..... they beat your door down trying to loan you money when you don't need it, and when you do need it, its impossible to get it. You guys have no idea how difficult it is for me to set up a line of credit but I feel like I have to now. I hope I never need it.
A very important step-don't carry much on the books. Make sure accounts receivable stay at a very low level. You can eat some labor but you can't eat parts.
My Dad used to say " The bank will be glad to loan you an umbrella on a sunny day but as soon as it starts to rain they want it back" d.d.
Diesel hit $6.09 here on Saturday
Open up drilling and reauthorize the pipeline.
How does this happen? When oil is refined, diesel is an x% byproduct. What would they do with it, dump it back in the ground?
The new trend, if you have something, in abundance, claim shortages or losses then jack the price. This basic extortion 101.
Yeah just wait till food joins in the pricing, funny how all the sudden there are tons of food outfit fires everywhere, yeah nothing to see there.
When I first started out I was drowning in debt every single piece I had was financed, payments were insane and the worst part was I didn't have a lot of work. Compared to now where everything is paid for. I would say it's similar to "it's expensive to be poor" as a business with lots of debt and limited cash flow will make less profit. Can stock up on material without a concern, can take jobs that take 2-3 months to pay but pay really really well because many guys can't or won't wait that long, not paying any interest on credit cards/accounts, etc. Just me, I will never finance another piece of equipment, if I can't pay cash i'm not buying it.
I remember as a kid seeing diesel for 14 cents a gallon. I think somewhere in the very early 60's. The petroleum tax here is over 43 cents a gallon, road tax don't know.
Not sure on age of your other hoe but what about a $100k hoe instead of $200k? It should still get you something very reliable that will last for quite a few years. Hopefully it doesn't get too bad but i'm confident that I am in better financial shape then 99% of my competitors, at least. None of my stuff is very new, between my 210, mini hoe, CTL, dump truck 2 trailers and pickup they are only worth about $275k, many guys have that tied up into just 1 hoe and yet everything I have is still very reliable. If it got bad enough i'd just park everything for a summer and say hell with it take the summer off. My stuff ain't working for free.
You bring up a very good point, and 8 years ago I would've completely agreed with you. However, what I'm looking for are few and far between. There are a LOT of 50-55k hoes on the market, and even more 80k ones. However, for what I do, a 40 ton is too big. Too heavy to move around efficiently, too heavy for the soft ground I get into, just too big and clumsy for 75% of my work. But, I need to see if a bigger hoe is going to increase my production. I need to get tree jobs done faster, which means being able to carry 4-5 trees instead of 3. With ditch cleaning, I need to be able to do in 3 days what would normally take me 4 or maybe 5. The only way to accomplish that is a bigger bucket. Options are limited for a 35 ton hoe. Case 300C, Komatsu 290, Deere 330, or Cat 329E. Anything pre-Tier4 is getting too long in the tooth, and after the issues I've had with the Tier 4i on this Case, there is really only one option for me, and that's a DEF machine. I originally wanted to stick around $125k, but i was offered this 290 for around $160k, took the salesman's word on it and said I'd take it. Well, turns out that it actually going to be like $170k. I was going to wait a year for a coupler, and try and find a used thumb, but after thinking about it, I told the salesman to get to work and see how good of a deal he could find. Long story short, he just *happened* to have a take-off thumb, and a coupler that I can't pass up. Plus, I ordered a new tilt bucket which I needed anyway.
For what I'm getting this hoe for, if I need to abandon this plan next winter, I can keep the thumb and coupler, and sell it for at least as much as I will have paid for all of it, maybe even the tilt bucket too. The thumb and coupler will fit on any 210, 240, or 250 class machine, and I'm pretty sure my new tilt bucket can be handled by a 210 as well, if I decided stick with a 210.
Well here is what we've done over the last 5-6 years to position our company for the coming recession. Fortunately or unfortunately depending on how you look at it, I've had 25 years of small business experience including going bust in Great Recession of 2009 to look back on. 1 - Cash is king. For the last 6 years we have been building bank accounts. This includes both personal and business cash. Also have been working on retirement funds for the wife and I. 2 - Over the last several years we have been working on getting every license and certification we can. This includes a General Contractors license (commercial) and various sub-contractor licenses (all commercial) and certain DBE designations. All of this gives flexibility to legally take on many different types of projects. We also have a home builders license but do not plan on doing anything residential except for site work. We have expanded our market into institutional and government work in addition to private commercial work. There is so much printed money the Fed gov't has allocated for infrastructure work over the next several years that work in that sector should be steady when the private market slows down, which it should with interest rates and material costs on the rise. 3 - Debt. We've kept our debt low but still have it. In order to keep a company healthy and competitive a certain amount of debt is required since you need a new machine or attachment and you don't need to tie up working capital paying for it. Case in point back in 2020 we bought a QC and a Cat Hammer for our 325 for a large arena project we landed. Cat offered 24 months at 0% so we took it. It's a fairly hefty payment at $3K a month but much cheaper than renting a hammer over the 1.5 year duration of the project plus we've used it on other projects as well. Our last payment is in June and we own a fairly new Cat hammer and QC for future projects. Bought a new D3 last year as our two large non-excavator earth movers are both 2004's. Still have our D5G and 953C but they are getting long in the tooth and do not need to be run day in and day out on a production job. However they make great backup machines and they are paid for. If nothing else they are the parachute if we have to short sell the D3. Currently our 2 main pickup's are on a 4 year rotation. I am up this year for a new truck and it just came in last week. Ordered a 2022 F350 and it took almost 7 months to get here. Next year will be our super's truck. As paid for spares we have a '13 F350 and '01 F250 pickups, both paid for. Our 325FL pays off in Dec of this year. Contemplating trading that one next year depending on economic situations and work loads. We have 2 - 279D's one is paid for with 2500 hrs and one will pay off in June '23 with 1K hours on the clock. Both of those were financed thru Cat with 0% interest. 4 - Technology. We can't find anyone that is willing to work so we are replacing positions we can with technology, specifically GPS. We have an order in for a base station, rover and machine control for our D3 through SiTech. The investment will be around $100K we will be funding by selling some excess iron and trucks, the other 1/2 we'll finance for 2-3 years. Having GPS on the dozer will help eliminate the need for 2 guys to pull strings from curb to curb during fine grading. Also having a rover will allow us to do our own layout if we need to. For liability reasons we have no plans to do layout, we'll still have the surveyors do that. However we'll be able to put back in a structure stake that was lost or layout the cutback for a retainer wall. Our competition (smaller contractors like ourselves) is investing in GPS and if we do not adapt the technology we'll slowly become uncompetitive. As the construction markets get tighter efficiency will become even more important. I don't see how we can compete in a tighter construction market without technology. Just my $.047 adjusted for inflation, tomorrow the rate will be $.067 so take it as you will.
One of the biggest differences between now and 1980 is fixed interest rates in today's market. In 1980 everything was variable interest, so anyone with a loan balance got hurt. Today, anyone with a variable rate loan needs to spend some time with their banker and get the loan refinanced to a fixed rate. It doesn't matter what the interest rate does, all the money I have borrowed is fixed rate. And I'm not paying it off early, a 4% loan with 8% inflation is another way to make money. I even have my LOC locked in for the next year. I bought road diesel for $5.199 yesterday, and saw the sign price from flying hook was $5.659. I don't know how this thing is going to end, but the economists successfully predicted 9 of the last 4 recessions.
Good point on the fixed rate interest on a loan in a 40 year high inflationary period.
That is an over broad statement, and I disagree with it. I have a variable right now and am much better off NOT refinancing it.
Diesel $5.49 today....grrrrr
Pfft! I saw diesel for 6.49 today. Our local store is selling it for $6.18
There's a lot of other factors though like having the cash flow to service the debt, and if asset drops in value. The thing I don't get with some peoples thought is if you have $100k in the bank today with 8% inflation it's loosing value, when in reality it's not, this inflation is not going to last forever and things are going to come back down to reality, or even lower then before. IMO cash will be king very soon. The dilemma i'm having is what to do with the cash for the next bit to make money on it, that's not too risky.
Please enlighten us.
I'd like to know your ideas on that as well. For me anyway I like to know my financing costs before I purchase something with a loan.
When do you get the GPS? I can't agree more with replacing labor with technology. I'd be real interested to hear your experience with it. I've considered getting a base and rover just because I can't always rely on surveyors. Everyone is always 2-3 weeks out and when the job is in constant flux with weather/change orders I can't abide the delay. I know it won't always be this way, but I can't tell you, or maybe I can...lol, how many times I've been on the site lately thinking....man GPS sure would be nice. Thought about getting base/rover and then later upgrading to some machine control. I still don't have a dozer so it's sort of a moot point.
Is rtk gps even accurate enough for curb layout? Elevation wise I mean. p.s. just read thread title; didn't mean to hijack.
Savman we put our order for the GPS system in last Friday with a 4-6 week lead time. The base station and rover is roughly 1/2 of the cost with machine control the other 1/2. Sometimes we can't depend on what the surveyors layout out when they do show up.
Dang I could have swore I talked to somebody that was a Topcon dealer a year or so ago and base + rover was 30k. I assume you are going Trimble? Also I don't know enough about them to know the capabilities of what I was quoted vs your package. As an example a 7 second vs a 2 second total station.
Yes going Trimble through Sitech. Our local Leica dealer quoted us a base station and rover in the $45-50K range with a $100K all in package with machine control for our D3. I really liked the Leica system but Leica has an exclusive territory agreement with our Deere dealer so that won't work, been around long enough to know if we had an issue it will be a finger pointing fiasco - it's Cat's fault, it's Leica's fault, etc, etc. I haven't broken the Sitech quote down but I assume the costs are split similarly as Leica's. We're looking at total GPS, no total station. Total stations are more accurate than what we are looking at. All we need to get to is +/- .10' of proposed grade.
It's $7.28 here
Cuttin edge. I assume that is price per gallon. In sunny manitoba we are $ 203.2 per litre or $922.41 per gallon.
I got an ARM (adj rate mort) at a lesser interest rate than a fixed. If I were to refinance, 1. the rate would go up. 2. If the rate does go up, refinancing would cost up front points. 3. If it goes up, I can just write a check and be done with it. As I said, overly broad statement. There are times it makes sense.
Yes, it's $2.45 or $9.27 per gal, $7.28 US here in New Brunswick. Gas is $1.81. Going up .11 cents tonight. Just noticed that there is no cents sigh on a computer keyboard.
Well, thank you for clarifying. An adjustable rate on a 20 year purchase is a bit different than an adjustable rate on a several hundred thousand dollar machine that you have to pay for in 3-5 years, as you explained.
Used to be adjustable rate loans based against Prime Rate, banks had issues with those as had clauses on limited adjustments over a fixed time span. Last one I had was One Adjustment every four years, that one slipped instead of rose as seemed to hit the Prime Rate Drops rather than rises where the loan manager pled with me to refinance as was losing them money. Had that loan ten years and a few months and not once did it tag a rise then sold the property. The late 70s had some weird/wild attempts at Adjustable Rate systems.
i wish I understood a word of that. Fortunately my only debt is my mortgage and my service truck payment and I owe less on the house.
I think we have seen the last of cheap interest rates for a while. They raising the interest rates rapidly. I would use the cheap interest instead of cashing out equipment that I could have paid for to keep operating capital high. That philosophy I don't is going to work out any more.
In 1979 I purchased a Industrial Rental Income Property but to gain that purchase I had to sign a Adjustable Rate Mortgage, ARM with a four year revision clause. I used that Shop and lot for close to three years off and on as a Independent Mechanic mainly as a Base of operations until I moved to a different locale and rented that property to another mechanic for his workshop. I retained ownership and made payments on it where at a Four Year mark that loan was set to adjust against Prime Rates, in '83 had a Prime DROP where my loan went down .2 point all the while the kid that had written that note basically tried to convince me I NEEDED to get into a Fixed Rate loan most of which in 80/81/82 were Screaming UP. Then again across to 87 prime DROPPED a full Three Points and the same context had been played out but my note went DOWN again. By the time I sold that building (At a LOSS ) rates were still down and the other guy bought it from me thru that same bank, Half a Point LOWER than I was paying!! Missouri First State Bank was bought up not long after by IIRC First Bank Corp. ARMs became Annual or Semi Annual review thru them.
It's insane how fast rates have went up. I had a 1.99% variable mortgage and locked it in in october at 2.09%, now that rate is around 4% couldn't have timed it better. With rates jumping so high it really made sense to sell the rentals, unless you raise rent through the roof won't be making any money. I've got to assume equipment financing rates went up a ton. I've paid between 7-8% years ago I would they got to be like 10% now.
It was easy to see they were going up. The Turdo put the rates down to " Help Canadians get out of debt". Everyone went farther into debt, and now they're screwed. I'm locked in till 25, and then I suspect my house payment will take a huge jump. Fuel is $2.57 now, gas is $1.91
2.57 a liter?
Yes, and that's Canadian so $9.73 that would be $7.64?
Yea it was expected they would rise but not as quickly or as far as they have. As much as I don't want to wish bad on others, the higher they are the more it benefits me.
Your customers aren't affected by higher interest rates?
I'd like to know what airlines pay for a gallon of jet fuel? 1 gallon of kerosene at a hardware store is just nuts.
Probably about .99 cents per gallon. It seems to me that they don’t always have to play by the same rules.
Not sure about the US, but I asked the other day about the price of fuel, and the operating costs this summer, and I was told that the company gets money from the government to help off set the costs of fuel. Only for infrastructure projects, not private, but that would be a huge help.
********* ** **'* ******. **** *** ** ***** *****. ********* (Can't talk out loud about those things)
The thing that concerns me, and while I am glad to have my employer have help, cause if they don't make money, I don't make money.... is this a case of help the big guy, and screw the little fella?
Depends on your perspective I guess. There isn't a safety net for me, why should there be one for anyone. I guess if they have like a 5 year contract for work, and this is a fuel surcharge when fuel gets above "X" dollars per gallon, then that's one thing. Personally, I wish the gubment would just quit trying to help.
Second attachment edited, because we all know HEF's rule on political content.
Some are, but many build with cash or are doing upgrades with cash, if the real estate market tanked it would have more of an effect for sure. One of the things right now keeping me busy is house demos though which are largely not dependent on the market, the city is starting to clamp down on them being vacant because homeless keep getting into them and threatening owners with fines or tearing them down themselves and billing them for it. Which i'm happy to do, i'd rather do all demos and not even bother with excavation if I had enough of them it's way better money. But for my costs my only debt is my mortgage which the rate is locked until early 2027 no other debt at all and i'm going to be lending out a fairly substantial amount in the next few months so the higher rate I can get the better, or if things are looking like they are going to take a bad turn using the cash to buy up stuff to flip. So if things stay busy i'm happy, but i'd guess I will profit as much or more if things take a turn.
You trying to get this thread killed?
Holy crap that's a big difference between gas and diesel, I thought diesel being like 10-15% more here was stupid.
3 different charts, 3 different prices. Joe H
First one is AvGas. Second one is $/barrel(175/42=$4.16)
Interesting how in the last part of the jet/crude chart they usually track closely, but lately jet fuel spiked and crude stayed mostly level.
First one has Jet A and Av gas. Joe H
I think a couple weeks ago there was article about Jet shortage on the East coast & it was coming in by sea rather than pipelines. That would raise the price some. Joe H
Those prices represent, Jet fuel for the average small guy (business jets, helicopters etc) costs way more than for the airlines. First off our inflated prices pay their way, then there may have been some incentive we may not know about that let them switch to jets back in the early days of jet airliners. Famous Eddy Rickenbacker that ran Eastern airlines didn't like the jet engines at all, huge fuel hogs. Example years ago Boeing got huge tax reliefs from the state, I'm remembering 10 billion or so not sure. But if peeon chidog doesn't pay his tax what happens?
Last time I was part of a discussion on fuel, it came out that airlines buy their fuel in lots and pay what are essentially bid prices. What was explained to a few of us back then was that it worked similar to the stock market. The airline committed to a certain amount of fuel in a specified time period. This arrangement was a buy and pay so much whether you used the fuel or not. Say the airline committed to buying half a million gallons at say $2.00 per gallon for the first quarter of a year and didn't use the entire half million, that was too bad. Let's say that the fuel prices dropped during that first quarter, it wouldn't matter as the price was already paid. I don't know about the taxes for airlines but wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of advantage given for all the jobs they provide.
$6.39 in Massachusetts. It’s intentional. Think things are expensive now? Just wait until trucking costs trickle down to the market. Everything is delivered by truck.
Bobby Goodson, owner of Goodson All Terrain logging is retiring and shutting down his company after 40 years in the business solely due to fuel costs. He announced it the other day.
I saw that on YouTube. I also saw something about a fuel shortage coming to the east coast. Anyone else hear anything?
What's the possibility of market correction by retirement of companies
I've heard from oil industry experts here locally that diesel could hit 8 bucks a gallon before the summer is over. I'll be staying home alot
I paid 6.24 yesterday and 6.34 today.
I put this in another thread, but just in case here it is again. I don't have a graph for just diesel, but bloomberg said last week that east coast diesel inventory was at it's lowest level since they started tracking it in the 90s. Love's and Pilot have both sent out notices to fleet customers saying they might have diesel shortages in east coast states.
Fuel prices are crazy nowadays. I don’t know how anybody can afford to use heavy machinery on a Regular basis. Me filling up my 5 gallon diesel can every 2 weeks for 27 bucks is bad enough. Funny thing is I called about off-road fuel about two weeks ago at a local station…. It’s about the same price as on-road. How is that possible!???
I have noticed the same thing here. That is some BS.
It's really expensive but in the total scope of a job fuel is a pretty small part at least for me. On a average basement even if I burn 75 gallons, talking like an extra $250 for fuel compared to before things went stupid. It's much worse that everything else has went up too, but raising prices about 10% took care of it. But i'm happy I still have a huge supply of SDR pipe and water line from before prices went up, so I am charging based on current high prices but I didn't pay near that for it. That happened here too, they took off $12 cents a liter for road tax to help ease prices but offroad fuel got 9 cents off before, now it's exactly the same price.
I’ve got to either raise my rate or add a fuel surcharge but I don’t see me staying home.
We'll all have to raise our rates but if things get worse the customers may not be able to afford to pay and then we will all be setting at home maybe more than we like.
Current boss is adding fuel surcharge, notified three important clients it was coming where they stated were going to shop around, he stated is their prerogative and good luck as to that.
These ridiculously high fuel prices are going to weed out some of the "bubba and a backhoes" in my area that have come along over the last several years ago. On the flip side the cheap project owners will get what they pay for using these cut rate contractors. Local tree guy buys a 314 excavator and a kommie 31 dozer and all of the sudden he's a site work contractor. Passed by one of his jobs that involved demo'ing an old house, some clearing and grading. The rear of the 2 acre site had a cut of 3-4' with a valley in the center with a 10' fill in the front. The soft debris from the house was hauled off for the most part, the trees were pilled in the valley where they were burnt and everything else was pushed in the draw then covered up. This is 2 acres of residential property on a newly constructed 4 lane road. Lowest bid is not always the cheapest cost.
they are high if they think that y’all are the only ones raising prices or adding fuel surcharges. Everybody will be.
Trucking just went from $85/hr to $95/hr I was not surprised at all and had already started quoting higher, though with my mark up I think hitting that $100/hr threshold makes it seem like it's so much more money. Even at $95 there is no money in it, fuel alone has went up enough to eat up that entire $10/hr increase. Bin prices still unchanged though, but I guess when you charge $175/hr for a tandem rolloff, a bit extra in fuel doesn't matter because you're still making a lot.
Dump truck company we use went from $90 to $112.50 with their fuel charge that fluctuates. Steep rise but they are not killing it at $112 per hour by any means. I have started bidding jobs at the higher rate plus our mark up, it's all we can do.
When i have a heavy day in the semi hauling loads i can drink almost 400 liters of fuel in a day. Diesel is $2.50 a liter so i can drink down almost $1000 of fuel a day. Only reason my boss has trucks is cause out jobs are hard to schedule having some one else hauling. He sure does not make any money from them.
Trucking is over $125/hr here.... fuel still below $7/gallon... this week. I’ve raised my prices a bit(I’m still below the regional average as I’m a “new guy”) but calls coming in have slowed to a trickle. might be a rough summer
Yea at $95/hr not making any money, I bet trucks are burning $40/hr in fuel easy, a driver is making at least $25/hr. Not a whole lot left. Especially when he had a driver get a $3k overweight fine on a 75% road ban, takes a lot of hours to pay for tickets like that. At least in the whole scheme of a job the price for excavation really hasn't went up much here, I would say like 10% i've went up, if it's demolition I really haven't raised prices at all.
It's weird how it varies, I haven't been this busy since 2019, currently booked solid for nearly the next month. Granted with just myself it doesn't take much of a job to keep me busy for a week so really not that many jobs. Getting lots of plans for people building massive houses though, like 2M+ which is really surprising. I also find i'm getting less pushback on prices and that's after raising excavation about 10%.
Fuel here in Missouri had been hovering around 5.29 but saw a couple places drop to 4.99 over the weekend, I have no clue what's up with that.
There are some stations that have been reliably cheap suddenly mid-expensive and other places with the same branding just down the road that suddenly became the lowest price. Things definitely shaking around a bit.
Saw diesel at $6.15/gallon here yesterday and doubled back to fill up... what a bargain!! edit: anybody else watching the market do the limbo today?
Wow. We are about 5.25-5.35 in NE Ohio.
I got diesel for $5.99 today. It’s almost like they jack up the price, and then drop it just a bit, and we all get excited like they’re not still sticking it to us…
I get first hand hit on this going to Junkyard's for the Weekend, help him as I can on a small project he needs to get done.
We had a second week of fuel prices drop, however gas is still going up. It's really odd to me, I just paid $4.87 !!
Big scary on the road was new Electronic Billboards going up at nearly every larger fuel stop, FOUR Digit per gallon pricing available.
I saw gas today at 39.99 a gallon, not a misprint. Bob
What?
Gas is $4.10 here i have a chance to buy a spare 427 for my truck i may pass on it because i will not be using it alot if fuel prices stay high.
Fuel supplies are dwindling for some reason, Stations all around are beyond their 'Apportioned Loading Schedule' where most did not know HAD apportionments. One station had been out of diesel four days when their clock reset, then only received 2/3 the normal delivery.
Bohica!
Called our fuel supplier today to get pricing on 15W40. Delo was $25 and change per gallon in a 55 gal drum. More importantly salesman told us fuel is going up $1 a gallon here June 1. Getting both 500 gal tanks (on and off road) topped off tomorrow...
Fueled up at the local store here yesterday. $6.18. Went in to pay and the owner told me I should’ve waited because it was going to drop next week by $1. Good to hear but it doesn’t really matter when you need fuel today.
We are around $4.80 - $5.00 at the station, get a little cheaper buying in bulk. Looks like our regions are going to swap pricing..
Those greedy oil execs.
Seems like a fair trade to me!
I hope my lying assed salesman is lying again..
Homeowner saw gas at the saw shop. Bob
Diesel is down to $4.89 local, was $5.19 for a while, $4.99 first of this week.
I wonder when a 4 quart oil change will cost $400. ?
Citgo which we buy in bulk--10 x 30 synthetic $18.42 gal/// 15 x 40 $15.30.
Never since in the next 8 years your state has decided that everyone who isn't driving a electric car by 2030 can't register it there. According to my mathematics there is over million combustion engines in WA state registered and so many electric vehicles, at approximately 70k electric vehicles a month registered as electric only will they make their law applicable. Last I recalled chip shortages and affordability with them lacking range ain't looking so bright between now and then, better get a horse...
No horses allowed, methane farts are forbidden. Bicycle or walk. Joe H
Our fuel is down a little from the peak here. Unleaded under $4,00 in places, diesel still hovering around $5.10. But down from $5.30.
We're hovering around 4.75 for regular unleaded and 5-5.15 diesel in south suburban Chicagoland.
I paid $93 to fill up two 5 gallon gass cans today and they felt like a deal compared to. Few weeks ago. We are at $2.00 a liter and were at $2.50 a few weeks ago.
Her in Abbotsford BC ( east of Vancouver BC) out of the Vancouver tax zone, diesel dropped to $2.09 a L. That is about $ $ 6.60 US for a Us gallon. It dropped $.20 a litre this morning.
Ours isn't that bad, but then again both of you live in anti-oil places so the crazy prices are more expected. Diesel around $1.70/L here.
Northern California checking in at $7/gal and change. Anybody ever done a veggie oil conversion to a Cummins?
Had 250 gal of on-road dropped last week at $5.45 per gal.
My local auto parts store switched from stocking Shell to Gulf for drums of engine & trans oil. Apparently Shell has gone way up.
Marathon recently told their customers to switch to 1223 kerosene placards instead of 1863 Jet A for home heat. I found that interesting. They must be trying to save a few pennies by selling a off-spec Jet A or something? Both products are coming out of the same tank. I don’t understand. Marathon surveyed their customers. Jet A has been supplied for home heat for as long as I can remember.
Does anyone else just get pissed off when they fuel up? It cost me $224 to fill the service truck up Monday and I'm at 1/4 tank already. I'm getting sick of this S%$#. I may have to start kicking my dog when I get home just to let out some frustration. Well, I won't kick the dog, but maybe I should start smoking pot or start drinking.
But still....I get passed by the Jacked up trucks with the big mudder tires (on the freeway no less) and you can hear their foot is really in it. "Someone must doo something, because it can't be my fault I get under 10 mpg"
I dont have the answers but in my mined to many people are burning fuel just for fun. Alot of people are wasting money on fuel just because its fun if this would change it couldnt hurt. I dont want to get into politics but maybe this is a way to straiten out some stuff thats going on for the future maybe there is a better way like taxing people that drive a fuel guzzlers that dont need to.
I personally vouch for drinking......
Don't kick the dog, he might fetch your drink and hold the lighter for you.
Holy moly, Yakutat’s electric rate is now 64 cents per kWh. My goodness. It’s diesel generated. The ladies that own the hardware store will hand you a flashlight if you are just grabbing a couple things. But, will offer to turn on the lights if you have serious shopping to perform.
Pfft! I’m having trouble finding pumps that don’t automatically shut me off at $200. I hate and I repeat HATE having to swipe my credit card twice to fill my tank.
Mike L. What do you charge for mileage?
I actually don’t charge mileage. I just run a flat rate whether I’m driving or wrenching. I know most guys and dealers charge mileage but I just don’t want to be bothered to keep track of it. Plus some days my truck sits and runs if I’m using the crane or compressor and I wouldn’t even begin to know how to figure that in.
Mike F. charges $15.00 a running mile and $400.00 just to start it up.
Not when I fill up as it's cardlock so I don't know how much i'm paying, but at the end of the month when I get my statement I swear more then a few times..... One of the things that drives me crazy is the swings. 10 cents a liter one day and back. So if I had filled up one day difference I could save like $40.
Wasn't that long ago many pumps were $100 here, most are $200. I would swear like crazy having to do 5 transactions. Any pump that doesn't have at least a $500 option is retarded. I'm just glad with cardlock I never worry about it anymore. I don't miss the 100's of receipts at tax time either.
$5.69 A GALLON FOR DIESEL IN KNOXVILLE TN....$200+ to fill up my service truck....just awesome
I have started having trouble finding any brand 15w-40 oils and grease( tubes)....stock up when you can
Can you send me some of that cheap diesel? 1.82 per liter here right now or $6.88 per gallon. As much as I hate the high diesel prices, i'm not really complaining. I'm super busy and bumping up rates around 5% more then covered the increases. I'd rather be busy with high fuel prices then slow with cheap diesel like in mid 2020.
LOL...Cheap diesel....it just senseless, and ment to hurt us. I'm also busy, 3 weeks to a month out for new jobs. Great problem to have!
Cracking down on horses too. New Zealand to price sheep and cow burps to cut greenhouse gases The proposal would make New Zealand, a large agricultural exporter, the first country to have farmers pay for emissions from livestock, the Ministry for Environment said. New Zealand on Wednesday released a draft plan to put a price on agricultural emissions in a bid to tackle one of the country’s biggest sources of greenhouse gases , belching sheep and cattle. The proposal would make New Zealand, a large agricultural exporter, the first country to have farmers pay for emissions from livestock, the Ministry for Environment said. New Zealand, home to 5 million people, has about 10 million cattle and 26 million sheep. Nearly half its total greenhouse gas emissions come from agriculture, mainly methane, but agricultural emissions have previously been exempted from the country’s emissions trading scheme, drawing criticism of the government’s commitment to stop global warming. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...urps-emissions-cut-greenhouse-gases-rcna32481
Your at the national average. https://gasprices.aaa.com/page/2/
Fuel jobber delivered the 55 gal drum of 15-40 last week. No problem getting fuel, grease or DEF yet..knocks on wood.
Yes Sir, that's right. I'm not complaining..... much, but just updating our cost in Knoxville for this thread.
What does interest rates have to do with rental rates?? Property value usually sets rental rate... Keep them cash flowing!!
Paid $7.90 for gas in town yesterday, little gas n go near my house was $8.30.......ugh.
Gas has went down to $3.99 a gal. I had to look at the pump twice before it sunk in.
Holy Smokes! Sales and use taxes must be through the roof there. Gas is below $4 a gallon and I've seen diesel at $4.99. Still stupid high. The diesel prices are killing us.
Our local station peaked at $5.39 for regular 87, they're down to $4.55 today. Diesel got up to $5.99/gallon there, has dropped to $5.79 over the same period.
Got gas for the car yesterday at $4.89. Diesel at the retail pumps is still over $6.00 a gallon.
The diesel at $4.99 was at two small truck stops on I-65. Local station close to our yard is still $5.45. Usually the 65 truck stops are higher.
3.85 for gas here yesterday and using the the Phillips 66 app I can get another .25 off
$4.19 for gas and $4.89 for diesel yesterday.
3.66 here in Texas. Still two bucks higher than when the mean tweeter was in charge. I picked a hell of a time to get out of the service truck and started using my own fuel. I don't even drive my pickup anymore. That would run me 400 a month.
Still over $4 gas here, drops to almost onto $3 ranges, then sneaks right back up. Diesel hovering just under $5
5.49 here in AZ
Last day of the Mean Tweeter here was $1.76. I did buy 100 of those "I did that" stickers on Amazon that I stick on the pumps. Joe H
I really don't pay attention to the price of fuel. Before got out of the service truck I didn't drive my pickup much. And the last fill up was before Brandon was in office. It was in April of this year when I got out of the service truck and started driving my pickup. It still had a full tank. My first fill up after that tank I was floored. It was 75 dollars and the last time I filled it up before that was for 30. Now it is around 95 bucks. Since my wife quit her job I started driving her car to work. I get nearly two weeks driving back and forth on ten gallons. The pickup used 25 gallons in 5 days. I really feel for you owner operators out there. My service truck could burn through 35 gallons of diesel a day. I couldn't imagine the pain of doing that plus more everyday.
My service truck cost me $258 last week to fill up. Most weeks I’m filling up at least twice, sometimes 3 times a week. DEF is costing me around $35 every 5 fuel fills. The last fill I remember before 2021 was $60 in the same truck and DEF fill up was $12. My credit is running thin with all the cost increases over the last 2 years. My rates are going up because if I don’t pass the cost on it will bankrupt me before the end of the year.
I've started adding a separate line item in my estimates for a fuel surcharge. The surcharge is not on the bid as a line item but it's included in each scope of work. Needed a line item to adjust as fuel prices escalate then fall instead of changing our normal unit and hourly rates. If fuel prices return to "normal" whatever that is I can adjust bids and still be competitive. For you wrenches I don't see any other way than either add a % surcharge or milage rates that reflect fuel costs. If you can't make a profit, you're not able to repair you customers machines. Brutal times indeed.
I'm in the same boat, spending around$200+ every fill up, plus DEF$35 +, and fuel for the welder$20+! Had to go up on hourly rate and travel mileage rate..... like you said it would bankrupt me to not pass the cost on. With all that, work has not slowed down...actually increased!
Not that you guy's don't feel the pain, try fueling every 850 miles at $1,100 a whack. A year and a half ago three of our drivers decided to make a jump to owner operator/lease to own. Right now they are netting after expenses $500 every two weeks. All three are looking to return, one asked me before he made the jump what I thought--{It's a good way to go broke}. To collect on freight charges with fuel surcharge a company will receive it in the next accounts receivable cycle, so your hanging for a while.
I don't believe in fuel surcharges as a line item. Hourly rate needs to go up. The increased fuel cost is going to raise the prices of the parts we buy from the dealer for our machines, and then also the tires for the trucks we drive. When fuel prices come down I guarantee CAT is not going to be like, oh great lets sell our parts a little cheaper now that that crisis went away...
That's ****** to hear, but have to wonder why are they working for nothing? If enough of them getting paid too little parked their trucks and said nope then the rates would go up so they can make a decent living or at least force the company they are working for to take a cut out of their profit on the O/O, no one in their right mind would run their truck for so little. Why are the O/O getting paid that much less then a company truck though, I know the company takes a cut but it shouldn't be that big of portion. If they are netting that little, a company truck would be paying a driver like what 4 or 5 times that, and there is no way they are loosing that kind of money per truck.
By the time fuel, tires, any repairs, food, plus brokerage fees, permits, insurance, and being low man on list-setting at docks waiting to load/unload which cuts into miles. There is not much left. We run drop and hook-drivers don't set very long. Normally there is a preloaded trailer and down the road they go. A break down and it's a wait at the back of the line at dealers. In this environment with fuel prices the freight rate doesn't change as fast as the price of fuel. 6% brokerage in most cases. Right now most companies are at break even point. So no one is cutting a fat hog, average cost per mile was 1.60 now 2.40.
When i started hauling scrap to the city if i had $20.00 i could gas up and eat and have a little left over now $ 100.00 for gas and nothing to eat. I all so make more dollars now. Its like i heared alot when i was young it will take a wheelbarrow to carry enough money to buy a loaf of bread.
Those are some good points in how a O/O would have higher expenses and less pay. But if it's that bad and companies are breaking even on their own trucks, they should be doing the same for a good O/O, making that little is insane, that's not even minimum wage. Can't see why they would do it though, with high truck prices sell it and go back to being an employee or do something different.
I took some scrap in today I couldn't believe how much I got, 2620lbs I got $197. I've never bothered doing it for demos, but now i'm going to at those kind of prices.
That's why I said {A good way to go broke} We have several drivers that were OO's that dumped their rigs some years back because it was tough. You might only drive 11 but your responsible for truck and load 24. So the pay really isn't there on a hourly basis. When I drove years ago low end was .18 good was .23 a mile. Those guys started a year before fuel went through the roof with not much in the bank for back up, the fuel costs have wiped them out. Trouble is there are hundreds of trucking companies across the nation that the fuel prices have cut into their reserve cash for replacement trucks they will have to borrow to get anything new. And at break even that's a tough row to hoe.
Is $.075 per LB worth it with todays fuel prices for that little of tonnage?
Scrap yard was only 10 minutes away, saved me about $100 in tonnage on disposal, and last bin was filled to the very brim so in this case it make sense to make a quick trip with the dump truck. It won't make sense on most homes, but these were mobile homes and that weight was only the frame so for them in the future I am definitely going to start sorting all the metal and taking it or getting a bin for it. It's only $160 a bin, don't need a lot of metal to break even or make a bit on it.
He did better than i did on my last load and i had to haul it all most 40 miles one way. I had all most 2 times as much. I got .05. I am not all that green but i will go out of my way to see some thing not go to a land fill. I could be wrong and i often am but every day 90% of us send some kind of metals to the land fill will this cause a shortage some day ?
Maybe, maybe not. There's no shortage of iron or aluminum ores. Aluminum metal is valuable to recycle because it's so easy to recycle, and uses so much energy to produce from ore. Iron does not take an exorbitant amount of energy to produce from ore and it can be produced with coal instead of electricity. However, if we get steep carbon taxes, that will drive up scrap iron prices because recycling iron saves lots of carbon use. Even copper, which is much more rare than aluminum or iron, is needed mostly for electrical purposes. While we're not getting rid of electrical equipment, the biggering and biggering of electrical consumption may end soon in the developed world (less heavy industry, and residential 200AMP services look a little funny with LED bulbs and other tech), and there's some evidence that the developing world will leapfrog most rural electrification. The economics of copper certainly don't justify $140 rolls of 14/2 romex. So, yes I throw way too little bits of metal into the scrap pile, but logically it doesn't make sense unless it pays. If we need it sometime, the stuff in the landfill will still be there.
Agreed. Landfill mining is an emerging business. From what I've read it's more about gaining more air space instead of metal extraction but the metals are a side revenue stream.
Here very little just gets buried now, they sort everything. Chip the wood, sort the steel to sell, grind shingles, etc. Today finishing the demo I found something even more worthwhile 5 $100 bills. Never found any money on a demo before. I didn't get it all either as I found a corner of another one that wasn't a piece out of any others I found.
Just changed the oil on the Goldwing. Filter and 4 quarts of cheap oil were $46.50. When I got the bike it would cost about $12.00 for the same thing.
I pulled "25" 4' x 6' x 4' to 6' railroad ties last I was dumping in the landfill. Each time I wonder over to tear down section and go shopping.
Nah - we landfill it all. C&D gate rate is $25-30 a ton with several landfills to take it too so it doesn't make $$ sense to sort anything but metal to the shredders and the hardcore materials that are non-regulated beneficial fill like cured asphalt, un-painted brick, un-painted block, concrete, rock, brush and stumps. These non-regulated items can be dumped anywhere so it's worth it to sort that material and save the $25-30 a ton to dispose in C&D pit. Vulcan Materials as well as few private crushing yards accept concrete not sure if they charge a tipping fee or not as we have our own dump.
Back some years ago things like lawn mowers all sizes were just tossed in dumpsters, along with some brand new tools, all sorts. I'm guessing they just ended up in a land fill some place.
I'm jealous, those kind of rates would be so nice. For these mobile homes for example spend so much time cleaning up the little crap as putting any dirt in the bins adds up quick, but at those rates it would be cheaper to scrape it and if you have a few tons of dirt no biggie at all.
Political.
Not political it is truth. If you don't like my terminology then report me and have me banned. I really don't care.
You are implying that the price of gas is the fault of politicians using a slang term for the current president. In truth, no politician wants high fuel costs and all do anything they can, which isn't much, to keep those prices low.
That is not what I am saying. I am merely pointing out when I filled up my tank last. That is how I chose to give a reference of the time frame. If you don't like how I phrase it. Then read on like everyone else has. If you are still butt hurt. Then report the problem and have me banned.
Don't have to report it. You will take care of it yourself.
Let the chips fall where they may.
You don't really belive that....or are you just trying to keep folks stirred up? Goverment has major Pipelines shut down...drilling permits not allowed....land leases for drilling on government lands not allowed....these are all facts to be verified....EPA regulations and forced/ failed green energy policies....who exactly is responsible for theses things? Please check it out....and educate yourself and your friends....please.
Disagree. They want gas prices high to make the alternatives more attractive and seem like they are actually a decent option. If there was no rebates for EV's and gas prices were back to normal how many people would care about wanting an EV? I bet there wouldn't even be 5% of what there is on the road.
There are a very vocal group of people who hate everything about oil, gas, and coal. They helped put the current occupant in the white house. Said person's political future depends an returning the favor to said vocal groups. I will disagree with John C about politicians not wanting high fuel prices. Just look at the tax proposals on fuel to force drivers into electrics, because electrics are the darling de jour. There are many other policies from the last 18 months that have driven up the price of fuel, including revoking the keystone xl permit. The occupant in the white house leads a group that would prefer most of the readers of this forum would be waiter's at Starbucks, as all their food comes from the grocery store, their homes come from home depot, and bulldozers just destroy the environment.
Name the pipe lines that are shut down and provide a credible source for that information. Fuel prices are set by fuel producing companies. Drilling is shut down because the oil companies won't pay for drilling. https://news.yahoo.com/fact-checking-biden-claim-9-170008791.html
From 2015-2018 I worked for a client installing non ferrous recycling systems at two different locations. They had onsite landfills that had left over shredder waste and the plan was to mine the landfills and recover all of the metals that had been disposed of. There is a huge business in this type of recycling, but the problem is, in 2018 China tightened their imports on this material to the point that the US could not ship the products over. This pretty much has killed the overseas market which makes the landfill mining too expensive.
Here you go...hope it helps!
Keystone XL Pipeline is not the Keystone pipeline. The Keystone Pipeline is already moving the same oil. https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/...using-the-gas-shortage-on-the-east-coast.html https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30103078 Some of the opposition side claims about Keystone XL in 2016. https://blog.nwf.org/2011/11/the-top-10-myths-vs-facts-about-keystone-xl/ So where are pipelines shut down? Please provide the entire articles instead of screenshots so we can read the entire articles.
Not sure how to post the websites, tried to paste them but it didn't work. After reading on the articles about drilling permits, I do agree with you on the drilling permits... that they are available and that the fuel company's are not drilling. They are making record profits. My point is that there are people in our government that don't want to see fuel prices lower and want us to be government dependent. They make it harder for us to be energy independent as a country. But you can't deny that fuel prices are outrageous. That we have enough resources here in our country to bring these cost down.... and not hurt the American people. Regulation restrictions and pushing green energy are some of the things they could change to help reducefuel prices.....we are just not ready/capable to be green energy independent yet. We need to stay energy independent/strong...If politicians would put the pressure on to allow fuel to be produced easyandcheaper.....but they are not in touch with reality. Middle class reality.....like when you have to decide on buying groceries or paying the electric bill. These things along with soaring fuel prices don't touch them. I will say this, and I believe it....we as Americans need to be able to unit and demand that our government works for us...and that we as Americans can find common ground through info sharing and communication.
A completed Keystone XL would move 830,000 barrels a day, that would of had huge impact on the global oil markets that is undeniable(even if not complete the fact that is was coming would of had a huge impact to futures). The number of people who want high fossil fuel prices grows everyday, some people want to create a $5.00 minimum fuel price to help subsidize against alternate fuel options(this is even in the propaganda articles you quote).
https://news.yahoo.com/fact-checking-biden-claim-9-170008791.html Any "news" article that quotes CNN, Politifact and the Natural Resources Defense Council is just more propaganda. Look at the sources at the end, White House, Remarks by President Biden, Center for Biological Diversity, Washington Post, PBS News Hour, CNN, PolitiFact, Vedant Patel, White House spokesperson, Melissa Schwartz, Department of Interior spokesperson, Josh Axelrod, National Resources Defense Council senior advocate. Sorry, those people all have an ax to grind. A green ax with zero evil hydrocarbons. Joe H
So find and post a credible source for your positions.
https://nypost.com/2022/06/13/gas-p...art-of-bidens-plan-to-eliminate-fossil-fuels/
Can you guys just agree to disagree on this? I don't think any amount of articles from either side of this subject- will convince anyone here to change their mind about what's going on. I have my own opinion on what's going on- but I don't need anyone else to necessarily agree with me about it. I don't mind people posting up what they think about a certain subject, I just see no possibility of either side changing someone's opinion about it. This is a great thread about current issues, and I'd hate to see it locked by you guys getting in a political argument about it, even though the subject has political issues running through it.
Thanks Crane Op. I agree it would be a shame to lock this thread and to be totally honest the name of the thread should read "How long can it go..". Anyway political drivel back and forth posting links to this or that article in order to argue with one another over political issues is just not something we like here on HEF. Fuel prices will always have a heavy political factor to it however that's for other sites to debate. How we as contractors and operators are dealing with the astronomically high fuel prices is a great discussion. Maybe we can focus on that? When I was on faceplant my feed was filled with the same drivel back and forth between people who I think just did it for the sake of argument. One of the best things I ever did was delete my FP account and never look back. We Admin intend on not letting HEF turn into just another social media site that happens to talk about HE every once in a while. So it's up to ya'll, it's just one button click to close the thread.
I agree, don't want the thread to be closed! We all have our opinions but the facts are the facts, that can't be argued. I know personally I sometimes get agitated or dont take time before i speak...lol! I do enjoy the HEF site and think it's a great site for great stories and great help through learned experience from all that contribute. I will keep my political views to myself. Let's move forward!
Used Yup use to run it in a 12 valve... It did great but 24 valves don't like it.. Common rail high pressure it doesn't work
Its like the old saying….. how much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
All i know is biden is not my president. And for some reason my fuel price in canada is 2$ a liter and i cant wait for electric machines at 6c a kwh
Well that's because you live in Canada so you have a prime minster not a president. It's down to 1.40-1.50 here now. Electric only seems good now because fuel is high to provide subsidies to it.
Here On the West coast of Canada gas dropped down to to $181.9 today and diesel is $1.89 per litre. The rumour is it will drop a little more in the next few days with one of the local refineries brings a line back on stream. Cam
I don't mind the toning things down. I do get a little irked by snide comments making it through with no basis in fact. It's how these uncivil communications have started when it wasn't challenged in the first place. Leave out that or at least support what you say so myself and others can learn from it.
Gas in town is $4.39, Diesel $5.69 I have a hard time accepting that gasoline has dropped 22%, yet diesel has only backed off 5% from its local high of $5.99. Especially since WTI has receded 25% in the same time frame. I haven't been burning much diesel this year given most of my heavy equipment use is for personal projects. My discretionary spending has backed off considerably given the impact high fuel and food prices have had on my personal budget. I have a slip tank that was filled when diesel was under $3/gallon that is empty, or very near empty and I won't be refilling it until I have a real need to, or fuel drops considerably. I've been topping off my bobcat as I take it out to various jobs, but that's only a couple times a month. Not a huge part of my income stream.
LAST AND FINAL WARNING.
Back to sort of the topic. Saw my first Ford Lightening in wild yesterday. Interesting to say the least. Traffic wouldn't stop long enough to get a good pic of the rear drivetrain but it looks to be heavy aluminum independent A-arms or the motors themselves but I could be totally wrong. I don't really have any interest in one so I haven't researched them.
I saw a rivian here in the wild a last week. Looked pretty nice but probably out of my price range.
Cool, peace out!
Today, Alamogordo NM Wallyworld $3.36 regular, $4.29 diesel Joe H
my wife’s cousin ordered one... still waiting but I’ll snap some pics when it’s delivered
Unleaded has dropped to around 3.20-3.40's depending on station. Diesel is still up in 4.60-4.80 range.
4.09 for gas and 5.19 for fuel. That's without state tax in the Chicago collar counties
Paid $4.45 for gas yesterday at Arco for the pickup. I don't even look at diesel anymore. Shell and Chevron are just below $5.00 a gallon.