I'm curious to know whats been going on for people with their backhoes that are similar or like my 1988 JD 310c with how many hours you have gotten out of the main hydraulic pump before you needed to have it serviced and/or replaced? I'm curious if there was a typical range of common hours to each specific machine thats known when to expect to find your hydraulic pump will be getting weak or going bad? Basically with regular service and taking good care of the unit. I see from my service records my hydraulic pump had parts replaced at 4427 hours, not that it matters but the parts listed in case you can make sense of this list, the parts were a spring, cushion, cap screw, spacer, washer, plate, adapter. Now I tried to cross reference the part numbers on the existing work order from back then in 1997 to a print out I got the other day of course in 2008 and none of the part numbers match, so its going to be hard for me to learn whats typically replaced perhaps for only weak pressure... this is what I wanted to learn if them parts were replaced to get back up to running pressure? I have 9100 hours on it now, so it looks to be 4683 hours were put on the hyd pump with out any other servicing.... so I'd like to look into what I need to do to see if the hyd pump is weak or going bad.... am I correct to assume a hyd fluid oil sample can be tested to see if the hyd pump is going bad to catch it in time before it blows? And at some point and place in the hyd lines I can hook up a gauge to look at the hyd pump pressure reading to see if its going weak? thanks for any advice and input...
Sounds like the work done @4427 hrs was on the flex-drive coupling for the pump, not the pump itself.
Got a noisy pump on my JD. When I can post questions I'll ask for advice.
There will certainly be pressure points on the system / pump to check the output and yes oil sampling will help to show wear in the system but really you need several samples over several hundred hours of operation to give a better guide. Check out the " what it all means" in the lubrication threads to understand what the results mean. I know from other posts you have done a lot of work on this machine, get an oil sample ASAP but dont have a fit over the results, then get another sample in a couple of hundred hours. Remember a blown hose resulting in adding a large quantity of fresh oil will corrupt the sample results and needs to be taken in to account when comparing the results.
Please do post back right here, I'd like to know what you do with your pump
Thank You AtlasRob for the help. I'll do all that.... I want to keep on top of things thinking it will avoid bigger problems. It must be nice to be a seasoned machine operator to be able to jump on any machine and to be able to listen to it for any mechanical sounds that are not normal prompting you to a mechanical issue Being new to this its taking some getting use to the sounds, I don't know if the sounds I hear are normal for my machine... or if I may have a mechanical issue... My hyd pump is up front and it sounds quite, but when I'm in the seat I hear all kinds of different buzzing and whining sounds out of the hydraulics in different variations and rpm's and it drives me nuts being new to whats what...
About 20 seconds before the splines on the pump drive on my 450c went south I felt a slight vibration on the loader control handle. I never heard anything funny. Of course I sat the loader down to see if I could figure out what was wrong and when I decided I better get the loader up before it was too late it was. The pump splines had stripped out but internally the pump looked like new. My JD parts manual shows the splined shaft but JD no longer offers individual parts for these pumps. I found our local driveline/hydraulic supplier could order the very same pump new, same model, even came with JD 450C part numbers on its tag. The best thing was it was only about one third of John Deere's price. Talk about markup!! When I get the chance I am going to make up a new shaft for the old pump just so I have it ready in case I need a replacement. Might make up a few spares if someone else is in need. tim
I've been looking at an exploded view of my pump to see how its made, I'm yet to look at you're 450c pump but don't know the year of you're machine. Because of how JD have hugely changed the look/design of the 450c over the years it can be any number of pumps You're spline that went bad, is this the kind of spline that sticks out of the exterior case of the pump picking up the power to spin and pump fluid off the mechanics of the engine power? either by belt or gear to gear drive? I'm curious why the spline went bad... like what's connected to it and is it seizing up? If you happen to have a link of you're pump please send it over, thanks...
:lmao :falldownlaugh thanks joeeye, if I ever find one I'll let you know. My machine is fine now, I found where the volume control for the radio is and turn it up a bit if I hear something I dont like. In all seriousness you are quite right to take notice of what your machine is telling you, it can save you a lot of money. One of my biggest frights was as a 17yr old on a borrowed farm tractor with backhoe attachment that I was using to clean some ditches. I didnt know that the area I had moved to was a low level flight training area for some of our RAF boys. One crossed above me at 90* and to say I nearly wet myself as I thought the tractor was going to explode is an understatement
you will know if it going bad...It will squeal all the time when lifting something and its not because it is low in fluid i know it will do that if it is though
I want to operate my backhoe now that its been in the teens and 20º degree weather at night, little warmer in the day, the ground is still workable to move some soil around..... but.... even though I use the electric block heater before starting it I'm concerned if its worth it to operate it at that temp being I'm not on a job, I'm only fixing up my yard around my house. So being its an older machine (1988) I feel like the mechanical components in line with the hydraulics as well as what ever else dont take too well to the cold will have a much higher rate of breaking, stick, failing making bigger problems from being very cold? Anybody's advice, two cents, and experence are always welcome.... I have no long time experence with working these heavy equipment and really don't know anything...
Dont worry about running it in the cold. The only thing you need to change is your warm up routine. Let the machine idle for a good 10-20 minutes. Before you start doing much of anything, start cycling the hydraulics. Do this by putting them through their range of motion. Dont put a load other than the weight of the machine parts. Cycle everything for 5 minutes, then youre ready to go
Thats a good cold start procedure... So I'll be doing that until the cold weather freezes the ground pretty hard so I won't be able to move the soil around anymore. So far its been staying more warm in the mid day, and cold mostly at night, so the Sun is hitting the cab warming it up pretty good for day use, so after I have the engine block heater plugged in for a half hour or so it starts up pretty good, but unlike the summer time I have to hit the fuel peddle for it to start where in the summer I didn't have to.
Thank you for this info, I am new to having a TLB and was wondering about this my self. I would like to keep my Case 580K around for as long as possible with minimal costs... rite... ointhead
Something else you might want to do--whenever it gets 20* or colder,I always warm up the entire drivetrain the same as you would a race car.Get your rear tires up in the air{front too if 4x4},stabilizers down,put her in gear,set your R's at app. 1200---warm her up.Simple.
Yep - I do that too at temperatures below zero. One day, it was -30 and I was going to spend the day lifting snowbanks higher. I let the machine warm up like this (at 1200 rpm as well) for 30 minutes. I got a comment from a neighbour later saying that what he saw that day confirmed to him that I was now, in his mind, completely off my rocker. Oh well - he wasn't on the "lifting list" anyway.
Question about my "88" JD 310c backhoe.... I was thinking... at times it's been dipping into the 10º-20º at night, but usually the night time temps are around 20º-30º. and the day's sun brings the temps around 45º-55º. I haven't gone below a half tank of fuel being its common sense to keep it as full in the winter... But, by now should I have already be mixing in some kind of Winter fuel additive in the diesel fuel? Not sure if I'm cutting it close to making problems being I'm yet to do that, because soon with the months of December, January and February coming its going to bring even more colder raining weather. Could I have already jeopardized anything so far? I ask because I now have a moderate sweating type leak of diesel fuel dripping from around the fuel injector pump lines that go to the cylinders. I'm not sure whats exactly leaking. and I'm not sure if it was like that when I bought it because the whole machine was cleaned up pretty good and painted, getting rid of any signs of oil leaks.... I'm guessing perhaps being its gotten colder the lines may need to be checked if they are snugged down tight enough, because metal does contract in the cold, especially if the injector pump was replaced in the dead of the summer heat on a hot engine, this might happen. Perhaps I'm posting too much right now, but I wanted to get it out there, because of the things I'm finding and being new to all this I don't want to mess up this nice machine. I do need to do some reading about what to expect from the hydraulic pump as far as the pressure it puts out in different temps... and where and how I check my hydraulic pump, like if it's still putting out an acceptable pressure..... The hydraulics seem weaker now, perhaps its not warming up all the way? or some other valve of some sort is not working correctly giving me a false indication its the hyd. pump... Anybody like to shed some light is always appreciated, thanks...
I've found that I start having fuel issues at about 25 degrees or less. If you expect to have these temps, I'd recommend fuel treatment, I use 911. I can't say if your fuel leak is related to the temps or not.
Thanks, I'm going do that right away... Where do you get your 911? Fleet Pride? or any auto parts store? I never hear of it thats all. Also, I noticed in the JD factory manual it says to use No.2 Diesel Fuel above 40º and No.1 Diesel Fuel below 40º. So at Shell I thought I seen what the sulfur content was in their diesel fuel, but not quite sure if they sell No.1 or No.2.... I always thought the home heating fuel was #2 and the gas station was number #1... Is this number 1 & 2 diesel fuel something I should pay attention to? not sure why its called out like that use #1 #2 under and over 40º... I thought I asked the dealer but forgot.
I get 911 at my NAPA store. Wikipedia has a pretty good explanation of the different grades of fuel. Be aware you will experience higher fuel consumption and reduced power with the No 1 fuel over No 2 as there is less energy in it.
I have an idea, maybe I should just get my fuel from my home heating oil tank in the cellar, if I remember right it's #2. My home heating oil company prides them self always saying they only deliver fuel that has no more than 2% sulfur, and its of the best clean grade going... So far I'm yet to read thru the Shell's Gas Station web site where I've been getting my fuel for any info about what they sell for diesel fuel..... thanks for the tip on Wikipedia.
Hi Joey - number in general terms refers to the relative amount of parafins that are present in the fuel - rather than quality of the fuel. It is the parafins (wax) that clogs your filters at low temperatures. When Steve above said that you will experience lower power and more fuel consumption with #1 fuel, that is because there are fewer parafins (energy) in the fuel. Number 2 fuel has more energy per unit than #1, but you will be sitting somewhere with a tractor that will be starved for fuel if you use that in the winter, as the parafins will basically collect in the filter and shut you down. What you need at this time of year is to make sure you have bought fuel at a station or bulk plant the turns over the volume. Their fuel will be fresh and "blended" for the temperatures expected in that area. Blending is mixing #2 with varying amounts of #1 (since #1 is more expensive to make, having to remove something from the oil) to give gel resistance to a certain temperature. At some points of the year, only unblended #1 fuel is produced and sold - that is the stuff I stock up on in the winter for use in the generators - to guarantee that I don't have the lights go out on Momma for fuel reasons. Never heard of a sweat leak before though - check carefully for a real leak. Fuel lines become wear items if the pump and injectors have been serviced repeatedly- maybe your machine had several fuel injection problems, and the flared fittings are either loose or worn. John
Oh God thanks for letting me know not to use the #1 from my heating oil... thank you... thank you... thank you.... I wish I had my garage built already so I can look at them fuel lines in a heated building I can't believe how hard it is to work on it this machine, very little access to reach a lot of thing that may need work at some point in time.... :Banghead
sorry to hijack this topic but i have a JD 315c 89 model has 10k hrs and when i lift the back hoe up or the front scoop(any hydraulics) it jerks (not smooth) as it goes up but when it goes down no problem what can it be? there are no unusual sounds.
also where can you get a manual for this model?
Hi, Is it only your hoe hydraulics that have the jerking motion? I ask because all my hydraulics have that jerking motion, but only when its cold, so I never bothered to find out why the hydraulics have that jerking motion cold because it goes away. My JD 310c has been doing that jerking motion pretty much ever since I got it 4 years ago. I believe this hydraulic jerking motion is very common place with our machines telling us something is obviously worn out and should not be ignored, which is exactly what I did and I think I may have caused myself a long term problem... perhaps someone can jump in here to give us/me a heads up on whats going on. I don't have much experience with this, so my personal opinion is I have a feeling this is a sure sign that the hyd. pump needs service work, or has worn out and needs attention before it begins putting worn metal flakes out into the system from the hyd. pump end stage of wearing out…? I think I may have caused my problem to get worse which I already mentioned, and I explain what I did further on in this post, which is how I ran my machine for a few years with the way the hydraulics have the jerking motion when cold, perhaps I should have realized when I replaced all the hyd. fluid causing the jerking motions to appear, this was when I should have realized that I had a serious issue and I should have realized to test the hyd pump, see if it needed servicing, or to be rebuilt, just flat out fix it. I have a question…., if I take off the hydraulic pump filter and shake it up while I empty what fluid I can onto a solid dark surface should I be able to see any microscopic shiny bits of metal (with the naked eye) which I believe will make my hyd. cylinders leak over a short amount of time..? Because I did that and cannot see anything at all thats shiny metal, or maybe it would not be shinny? like the way the metal looks on a race from a worn down bearing, I didn't think of that until later, and should have used a magnet, but it looked clean as can be, so I felt things were good, did anybody ever find metal in a filter easy? I have two pistons that have begun to leak now, but first before I jump to any other conclusions I need to see if they were ever rebuilt before, because the machine does has 9800 hours on it now, but again I'm up against by not knowing whats the range of how many hours to expect before I'd get oil sweating from a piston...? perhaps I can say with 9800 original hours on them leaking pistons is safe to assume its normal and not from metal shavings getting into the system from a worn down hyd. pump...? I'd appreciate hearing anybody's experiences and knowledge on this… even if you like to guess... Not to make this post even longer, I feel I need to share this story, it may be pertinent … when I first got the machine it worked fine, hydraulic working perfect until I changed the hyd. fluid that was horrible dirty…. I then right away first start up I immediately got loud squealing sounds but only when operating the loader, all jerking motions, it was a mess, so I thought it was that "High Performance Fancy Expensive Fluid" I wanted to put in there, so I changed all the hyd fluid again, things seemed to calm down…. But in the long run I may have been fooling myself into thinking it was the fluid when in fact any new fluid was that I just shocked the system being its pressures changed stressing out an already worn down hyd system… oh well...
i also have a leak from one cylinder its quite bad. also i am having problems with gear box i put the tractor in 4th and put my foot down and it wont go just revs but if i put it in 3rd 2nd 1st goes forwards reverse no problems what can that be? also dose anyone have a manual or a pdf manual for a 89 315c John Deere backhoe another question if you wanted to change all hydraulic fluids and filter ect do you have to bleed system to get air bubbles out and how do you do this (im a car mechanic by trade but i am new to hydraulics and tractors)
I'm going to take a wild guess comparing your machine with being similar to mine which is a 310c.... My machine will not move forward in 4th gear at a stand still, I can feel the motion like it wants to, and perhaps on a down hill slope it might get rolling fast enough to finally go somewhere in 4th... and in 3rd gear I'm burning up the trans still to high, 2nd and 1st are the only start up gears I can use, I can shift back and forth from 3rd to 4th on the fly because they have syncrose between them, but 1st and 2nd gears do not have on the fly shifting.... I believe the reverser on any machine with age and hours gets to be a little on the weak side all depending how well it was taken care of... One thing I know is that your machine will last you a long time but only if you baby it, otherwise in about a year or two its going to cost you some big money, because the older that get the more they break down when driven hard, this is what I learned. Also, if your hydraulic system is similar to my 310c I did not bleed any hyd. fluid.... but you will need to look up the info on line until you get your manuals with how much hyd. fluid your reservoir tank out side takes, I think 9 gallons... then "my" reverser takes 8 qt (2 Gal.) and the rear axle/wet brakes takes about 6 gallons, so buy at least 20 gallons, maybe 25 if you blow a line you'll need to keep adding.... My 310c requires each component to be served separately, like fluid levels checked and maintained even tho all the hydraulic fluid in time does go thru one big filter. Well good luck, hope your system is easy to figure out like mine was in time...
Joey - you've been away from here for some time. Nice to see you back.
Thanks my friend..., good to be back poking around reading the posts.... helping out where I can...
HI AtlasRob, how have you been doing? I haven't been on this site for a long time... I wanted to chat a bit about this and that and to see how you been doing, give me a shout if your active here I wanted your input about oil samplings.... and is there anything such as looking out for what amount of metallic shavings to be found in the hydraulic fluid as if it was coming from a wearing out hydraulic pump, like what amount does it take in the Hydraulic System fluid for it to put heavy wear on the Hydraulic Piston Cylinders..? Two Cyl. just started to drip on me and I never fully checked out my Hyd. Pump, if that whineing sound is normal or not, or if it was coming from the main pump at all..... I did tear into the Hyd. Filter after many hours of use to look at the paper filter element under a magna fine glass and I do not see anything shinny like metal flakes, so would that be a safe bet to say the hydraulic pump was not sending out any metal from being on its way to breaking down? that is what I would suspect would wear down the hydraulic seals pretty fast.... I don't want to guess..., or even speculate to come to some sort of educated guess..., or perhaps like with wheel bearings with the rollers and the race that they sit in and rotate, when they go bad the surface is not shining, its that rough dull bumpy surface, so maybe I should have been looking for dull metallic flakes?? Just wanted to shoot the breeze, hope all is well with you... All the best Joe