I dug out some stumps for a neighbor in exchange for a stock pile of gravel, crusher run. I used my 951C loader to load the gravel and haul it to my driveway. I hauled about thirty loads with my single axel F600 dump truck. The stock pile had been there for a few years and was wet and packed. In order to meet the neighbor's time frame I had no choice but to haul it wet. I could not spread the crusher run with the truck at all, so it was dumped in piles on the driveway. I used the ag tractor with a front end loader and rear grader box to knock down the piles and spread the gravel as good as I could with it being wet. Now it is dried out but everywhere a pile was dumped there is a thick hump and it has set up like concrete. It looks like a roller coaster. I need to grade it smooth with my D4E dozer but I don't want to follow the same humps and end up gouging the road. The road has plenty of fall so I don't need or want a crown. I have also ditched the upper side and installed new culverts as needed. I am thinking that it will need grading before the new gravel is spread and again after the new gravel has settled. I am planning to have the road asphalted. The paver has asked that I have the road graveled with crusher run for the entire quarter mile of its length. The gravel will be delivered and spread on the road this coming week. I need to grade the humps out before it arrives. The new crusher run will also cover what gravel I have already put down on the road. I have about ten hours seat time on the D4E, but not grading or finish work. The dozer is direct drive and has a 10' mapt blade. The road base is about 16 feet wide and the asphalt will be 10' wide. What is the best way for a novice like me to grade the road smooth enough for an asphalt job?
Honestly I would rent a grader, it's sounds like that would take care of it and make it smooth enough for the asphalt. I'm no expert on dozers but to cut humps out don't try to take it all at once if it's too big of a hump. Shave it down In a couple passes if needed and leave your last pass a bit above grade so you can have something to carry and fill. I don't run small dozers often at all and finish isn't my specialty so I am sure their are others that could be more helpful. Worst case use the dozer to knock the humps out and use a drag behind the tractor.
subscribe. I only have two thoughts. Get on that dozer and don't get off till its smooth. You'll eventually figure it out. Then let me know. The little bit of finish grading I have done has taught me to angle the blade hard one way or the the other. Doing this makes the cutting edge long in the direction of travel and helps it to float over the low spots and slice(like a knife) the high spots. Several passes and it looks decent. Maybe not great. The other thing is you probably want to tear up those hard spots or they will come back to haunt you once the asphalt is in. Do what you can to bring the subgrade material to a consistent level of compaction. Those hard humps will show up in the asphalt in a couple years if you don't rip them up now. IMO
Yep. Take your loader and scarify the humps with the bucket teeth to loosen them up, that will make it easier to grade with the dozer. is your paver going to bring a motor grader in to touch up the base before asphalt? When your new stone is delivered, have the drivers tailgate it.
Take your time & relax . You need to break up the surface & create some fines to grade with . What I do when grading with a dozer is first track up the drive to loosen up the surface . When I run in to a spot that's tight like concrete I will twist the machine left & right to brake up the top using the track grousers to scarify the high spots .
Isn't that what rippers are for? 1/4 mile of pavement is expensive! If it was me forking out that kind of cash I would want the finished product as nice as possible. I think I would have someone with a grader finish it up before you have it paved. I'm not saying to not give it a shot with the dozer before your gravel shows up.
We would dispatch an Allis Chalmers 175 & Box blade for a driveway grading job Its pretty high tech. LOL HeavyEquipmentForums If I had a dozer on site would probably just twist around on the tight spots with the grousers to loosen it up & grade as needed.
This can be done with your dozer in a fair amount of time. Gonna have to loosen the humps , cut then when finishing get a blade load of material and carry it over the road , lose some in low spots cut others. After that I agree a grader box is the way to go. Your paving guy should have a small grader when your ready to pave. The whole thing can be done with the grader box as well. Take your time and don't get frustrated.
Ok, for the level of finish you want, just clipping the high spots isn't going to work. Also pavers don't fix potholes and waves, pavers are designed to evenly place material over the existing surface, if it was uneven before, it will be after as well. What you need to do is loosen the entire road bed up to a depth below any low spot and pothole by several inches. You want that road tore right up, you can do this with rippers, the trackloaders teeth, or a really heavy disk. Then angle your dozer blade and start working it. Don't try to get it all done at one, get a pass and move over 1/3 to 1/2 a blade width and get that right. Once that's done, you need to compact, wheel rolling with the dump will work, but roll everything, middle and edges inc. Once completely rolled in, you should be able to drive your dump over it loaded and only leave a faint mark if any, then you have a road.
I grew up on a D17 and 170, still have dad's old D17. Love those old AC's. What you need is an AC Speed Patrol.
Yeah wilco,Im the same way. We also have a 170 & WD-45 on stand buy if it get's tough . Hey....... The way I look at it is it's a grading job for a paved driveway..... It aint like we are tryin to land a man on the moon.
If you have a machine with a 3 point hitch, I'd rent a Harley Rake and make several passes over the compacted material to loosen it, then pull the whole length of the driveway. I've dressed driveways with Item 4 this way and they come out as nice as with a grader, especially if you use the box ends on the rake.
Lots of good information in this thread. Being a novice also, I would pick out some of the tips and apply them to your road conditions and machinery available. How bad are the humps, how difficult are they to break up, etc... Maybe get the road as good as possible with your dozer (and a lot of initial blade adjusting) and finish up with a box blade. If you are not 100% happy with the finished results then hire someone to dress it up for you. Like others have said, this is a very expensive undertaking and the finished result will depend on the smoothness of your work. This took a bit of time but I had never used an AG tractor or box blade before. I was very happy with the results for gravel but I never would have paved it as there were some long rolling areas that an experienced hand with a grader or whatever could have easily taken care of.
Listen to stump jumper 83 this guy obvisually knowes what he is talking about. Rip up the lot take ur time 3 or 4 pushes isn't gunna cut it compaction is very important so is moister content u may have to add some water b carefull not to much or uwill get soft spotts and yes u do want a crown 3 percent is the general rule of thumb ( peg string ribbon bubbel tripod dumpy and staff use them laser gear is great but it is a luxury the old fashioned way still works ) and would seriously concider hiring in a grader and possibly even a final trim operator it will b cheaper than ripping up the black top and redoing it remember b patient and it's all in the base. I would even concider hiring a small twin smooth drum roller start at the edge and only move half a drum at a time once rolled and sealed give it time to bake out very important depending on ur situation concrete treated base might b a better option . Also just a thought blue metal ( proper gravel ) say 20 mill dropped on tar mushen with a cockle box may b cheaper and more viable option than proper ash felt.
a lot of good advice on here for preparing a ROADBED and certainly follow it to get the roadbed ready.........but for asphalt paving that put away the dozer use a grader...anything less is a compromise...with your stated experience levels i would highly recommend you hire the asphalt company to do the final fine grade and compaction immediately prior to laying the asphalt......if it were mine i would have them accept the subgrade....produce the final grade and lay the asphalt and provide a standard 1yr warranty.......with high oil prices these days its easy and profitable for asphalt mixes to be subpar IE shingles etc in the mix where there is no warranty or responsibility involved for the asphalt company...all asphalts are not created equal!!
I know a large asphalt producer in my area ( 4-5 plants) that use recycled shingles in the mix. They have a large area where they let you dump clean shingles for free. I have read a few articles where state DOT's have approved using shingles.
we had several large asphalt parking lots contracted back a few years ago when oil was 150$ a barrel........the asphalt companies wanted to use state DOT approved shingle mixes.....we would only allow it with a 2 yr warranty...they all failed within the two year time period....i guess my point is get a warranty on any asphalt mix...in our area the standard run of the mill warranty on a commercial asphalt parking lot is 1yr ....its kinda like concrete mixes you get stronger mixes if they know your testing the loads....shingles in a mix is not necessarily a bad thing but its a cheaper way of producing a product sometimes creating issues if not watched carefully..
Totally understand that. Standard commercial warranty in my area is the same.
Almost there I tore up the road with the teeth of the 951C loader. Next I used the dozer to shave the humps and carry and fill. Then I finished up with the ag tractor. I actually did a better job with the dozer than I thought I would. I worked slow and tried to anticipate the humps and low spots and adjust the blade accordingly. My grader box does an excellent job and it has the teeth that will roll over and drop down with a pull of a lever on the move. The grader box does a good job of following an existing contour. Re shaping a contour is another story requires a lot more effort. I have more work to do after traveling the driveway after dark using the headlights. The headlights really show up the high spots and low areas. I could feel them through the dozer seat but couldn't tell exactly where to begin the cut to shave them off without tearing the road up and starting again. I will get it in shape for the 4" of crusher run and let the truck driver spread it. He is really good when it comes to spreading gravel. I just need to get it in shape for him to do a good spreading job. The asphalt people will bring a grader and roller. They suggest that it rain on the new gravel a couple of times and that it have some time to settle. Thanks guys for all of the ideas on knocking down those humps. I knew that given enough time and diesel fuel I could get it done but there is always different methods and better methods drawn on someone else's experience.
Just curious here - Why would you want to asphalt that road/drive. We leave them gravel around here. Even all the town roads are gravel. Cheaper and easyier to maintain. Looks like you have the equipment and know-how to do it. I would be afraid my asphalt would get undermined from running water in those ditches.
Good job Nitelite. The base needs to be watered down and then some time to cure, so a few rains should do the trick. Also if we have another downpour like we did Monday, it will show you any areas on the drive or the ditches to touch up before pavement.
I really like your tractor & box blade combo OldandWorn . Blade looks to be heavy built . Nice grading job . Grading job looks great Nitelite. Sounds like you used a combination of equipment & techniques to get the job done .:thumbsup
I am beginning to have second thoughts about putting asphalt on the road. Gravel is getting so expensive that it might pay in the long run to pave as it should last much longer. On the other hand I can gravel the road ten times for the cost of asphalting. The road was built in 1972 and I have maintained it with an ag tractor/w scraper box. It has been graveled five times since it was built. Due to the steep grade, after heavy rains the road often needs to be re graded and I don't mind doing that. One consideration is that if my wife outlives me she cannot maintain the road and she has no intention of moving. In that respect the asphalt seems plausible. I am thinking that either way, asphalt or gravel, re cutting those ditches and new/larger culverts should cut down on the road maintenance as the fall leaves can't clog the ditches and culverts as bad.
Looks good Nitelite. You've obviously done a good job at getting the hang of a box blade. If you do decide to go the gravel route, it might be a good idea to get a landplane grading blade to pull behind your tractor to spruce things up every month or so. You'd be surprised how easy a landplane is to run, and how well it maintains your road. http://www.roadrunnerblade.com/tractorModels.html
JNB is right. A land plane is so quick and easy you can grade the road more often so you get less water damage because it is always in good shape. It also make old gravel like new by remixing it. You can do a good job with one. You still need to use a blade once in a while but not very often. Last year I never touched my rear blade once.
g_man that's a might fine picture of a gravel road!
Nitelite, Before you spend a ton of money asphalting that road, I suggest you look hard at what your problems are with maintaining the existing surface. Simply putting asphalt on top without properly addressing poor or poorly designed drainage, frequent washouts or washboarding, inconsistent base, steep slopes, etc. will likely lead to far bigger problems when the asphalt fails and starts coming up in chunks that can't be fixed with just a box blade and maybe a load of rock. I'm no expert on paving but from what I've seen, if the prep work is slack or lacking at all, then the road probably won't last for crap. If your couple of pics are representative of the conditions, it looks to me that you've got plenty of fall to outslope the road and use turnouts and/or broad-based dips to get the water off and away from the road edge. Ditches may be needed when there's no place (or slope) to run the water off, but on a hill they're just a good starting point for a washout once they plug up with debris (which it sounds like you've discovered). Culverts are not always the best answer for cross-road drainage, unless you're crossing a well established creek/drain with banks that can be stabilized around the culvert ends. Take a good look around for BMP (Best Management Practices) for logging roads or low volume road maintenance and drainage to get some ideas on construction, dip/turnout spacing, slope, etc. It sounds like you've got more than enough equipment to easily improve and maintain your road with a gravel surface (or someone else in the future if needed) - much more so than if you asphalt it - no road surface is maintenance free or lasts forever.
Grader box g_man, Cool Hand Luke and his hand shovel prison team couldn't have done a better job than you did on that road. My road is on a steep grade and creates more water problems which in turn causes the loss of gravel. When I clean out my lake in a few months I expect to find my long lost gravel mixed in with the silt. My grader box is of the commercial type and weighs in at more than 800 lbs. It really does a good job. I am going to fire up the dozer and concentrate on those humps that are left and are visible in headlights after dark. Rain tomorrow so I'll get it done this evening. Reach back and pull the lever on top and the teeth roll over and contact the ground. Back up with the teeth contacting the ground and at the same time lift the box. The teeth lock in the down position with the entire weight of the box sitting on the teeth. To roll the teeth back to the grading position lift the box and pull the lever. The teeth roll to the up and locked position. This is my second box of this type. I used the first one, just like this one, for more than 35 years. I started out grading the road with the box behind a Ford 9N. The box was just too much for the tractor and finally it broke the ring gear. I replaced the 9N with a ** 2135 which is a 35 hp diesel industrial tractor. After many years of pulling the box the bolts that hold the ring gear to the differential failed. Some broke off and some backed out and caught the housing. I repaired that tractor and still use it as an ag tractor for plowing, disking, tilling and such. I now use the 50 hp McCormick pictured. It does a good job with the grader box. The real punishment occurs when I hit the edge of a new boulder that has just surfaced. That is a real shock to the equipment and in time will cause differential damage.
Compaction is the key, get the base good and solid, less permeable for water intrusion and verify all drainage is AWAY from the roadbed. Asphalt company will look over the area for paving, will lay out what will need be done prior to laying oil.
This evening I concentrated on what was left of the humps using the D4E and I now have a smooth road. Really, I guess it is just a matter of eyeballing and giving weight to what you feel through the seat of the machine. It is just as simple as what has been said on this forum, "take the humps out first and then just grade the road". I have learned that just because I own a dozer doesn't mean that I am a dozer operator! The more I think about it the more prone I am to leave the road just graveled. I have always been a "do it yourselfer" and I might not have thought out the asphalt deal very well. Thanks to the replies on this forum I am having second thoughts. One more thing to consider, tar and chip? It is a lot cheaper and some say that it will outlast the asphalt. I have no first hand experience with either the asphalt or tar and chip. Just a gravel sounds better all the time! I do know how to maintain gravel and I have the equipment to do so. Thanks guys!
you might consider using asphalt millings instead of gravel or base........we can buy them here at a slightly higher price than quarry base.......over given, time, moisture, heat, and pressure they will compact and stick together as hard as asphalt but can be repaired like a gravel road......we have started useing them here for tracked vehicle equipment yards and such......dont know if you have them availible there but its worth looking into chip and seal will do ok on light rubber tired traffic and will turn water well...but any twisting or heavy equipment will tear it up fast i have a box blade like yours (they do a good job)....with the equipment you have i would probably leave it base if it were mine
That's the way I do it - Ya' gotta have a bubble in your butt to feel what the tractors doing.
Oh man, great thread. thanks everyone. i'll only add this as food for thought on the issue of asphalt as a driveway surface. Asphalt is a liquid, and requires constant use for compaction to maintain its surface. This is why it works so well as a main road, its because of the high traffic. Back roads seem to pothole and crack faster and I don't think its just from less maintenance. As a lesser used driveway only serving one house with a couple trip a day average it won't last near as long and once it does start to go it will go much faster than you can imagine. As a custom home builder the only time I've seen it work with much success is when its a driveway that serves several houses and all the comings and goings from multiple households. Outside of that an estate sized project that I did is holding up fairly well but the in and out of the service workers keeps the trip count high. pool boys, maids, landscapers, vineyard workers, etc-etc. all make for a lot of travel time. When I was younger I lived on a gravel road and the neighbor above me had his stretch paved up to his house and it was a yearly thing for him to patch and seal that driveway so he could drive the last 300 yds of a mile of gravel on a smooth surface, it was his deal but I didn't see much benefit from the effort. anyway, if I could have a driveway like g_man's I would be a happy man!
About done The gravel job is almost finished. I put 4" of crusher run on it. I think after a few good rains on it it will pack down just fine. After a few heavy trucks on it I re graded with the ag tractor and box blade. When I get the time I will load my dump truck and run the road a few times. I think after so many negative comments on using asphalt, I will just leave it a gravel road trusting my new culverts and ditching to save my expensive gravel.
My right track on the D4E dozer looked a little loose the other day while working on the road. After finishing for the day I pumped grease in the track and brought the track to specification. The next day after about three hours of working the machine I noticed the track had slacked off again. I can't see a leak for the rock guards. The zerk is not leaking and the relief valve is ok so I guess it is the result of fair wear and tear. I need to reseal the track adjuster. I have ordered the seal kit. The same kit fits the adjuster on my 951C. I hope that just a new seal kit will do the trick. I think that I have to break the track chain to replace the seals. The machine has SALT track chains with the bolt up master link. Is there any tricks of the trade that I need to know before I start the repair? It is old machine indeed but very clean and it has spent the last twenty years of its life sitting on the new undercarriage inside a chain link fenced in area and always housed inside a building. It belonged to an old tinkerer who just started it enough to keep it alive and only used it to burry his trash every once and awhile. Now the previous owner, I would guess, is operating the big dozer in the sky. It is a direct drive tractor and a real pleasure for me to own and operate.
The road looks good Nitelite. I think that you made a good decision not to pave it, or at least give it some time to see how the new drainage will work out.
The drive looks good. We share very similar terrain. I'm no mechanic but I have broken down track chains before. First get a new set of master link bolts for reinstallation, don't use the old ones, it's just cheap insurance to go back with new. Be careful removing the master link bolts, the last thing you want to do is break on off. When you reinstall it be sure to use anti-sieze on the bolts.
That is a nice looking road. The trick to a gravel drive is driver technique. Just teach your family to work the edges of the road and float up the hills and it should hold up well.
I agree with the others - It looks really good. I think you are smart to wait and see what happens and what maitenence turns out to be. What Wilko said about driving is so true. I share the lower 1/4 mile of my road with two other families. They all take the exact same wheel track right down the center day in and day out. At least they don't throw gravel around on the up hill stretch.
I don't know what they are thinking, it seems like a no-brainer. I always take the very edge of the road which is trackless and actually smoother in most cases. Also, for no particular reason that I can think of, I travel the edge on the wrong side of the road.
im in the same situation and it drives me nuts, the only time they move over is to hit a mud hole and make it bigger it seems lol