Good Morning Gentlemen. I have decided to purchase an excavator for trenching and clearing purposes on the farm as well as some manure piling/picking at a nearby feedlot to help with the payments. I am skilled with farm equipment but have never ran an excavator. I am wondering if there is somewhere on this site for education? I have trolled about and found lots of tips and tricks but would like a more detailed explanation of various excavator movements. Ie. people suggest jump turning but why and how to you go about this? I have searched the site and google but frankly this site has too many skilled people on it! and everything you guys discuss is over my head. =) Could anyone point me anywhere? As a bonus the first job is a bunch of trenching on the bald ass prairie so it will be safe learning. Couple other questions: -what % of the hourly rate should be earmarked for maintenance? what % for fuel costs? -what would daily/weekly service look like -does anyone know where there is a good link for how to put a track back on? For lots of excavator type movements I have watched you tube but am concerned that the people in the videos might not be working in the most efficient/safe/or machine friendly manner. Do any of you have videos or a youtube channel I could watch for more learning? Really appreciate this forum and the guys on here. Look forward to this experience.
Well, I can say this. I watched my dad running the hoe alot before I started doing it. However, until I actually started running the machine, I didn't really have an appreciation for its operation or its limitations. Best thing I could say would be to go to your local rental place and rent a mini for a weekend. Start digging. The longer you do it the more you will get a feel for the hydraulics, and how to be smooth. Slow is calm, calm is smooth, smooth is fast.
I'll show you how! Actually I've never run an excavator either but I've got a backhoe which I'm not bad on.. Where is "north central" SK?
Not running a track off is the best method for re-installing. I think there is no reason a track should ever be run off an excavator. I've seen it happen but it's always the result of ignorance. Be very careful clearing brush. It's very important to understand the danger involved. A tree can very easily end up in the cab with you. You should always work with the idlers in front so that if a tree or branch does come in and hits the travel levers you will back up not drive a stick right trough you.
I reside at Debden, Sk, two hours north of Saskatoon. Good to hear that tracks rarely come off. The only reason I thought it might occur is because one of the few operators I watched had it happen. Guess it was just his bad day. He was a scrap iron guy with a magnet piling junk in a neighbour's yard. Thanks for reiterating the danger involved in clearing. I do plan on proceeding very cautiously and beginning on smaller trees in small bluffs, not full blown forest with century old conifers. The beauty of owning the unit is there is no rush for me. Slow and steady is just fine. And that is only after days and days of trenching that will really help to familiarize me with the unit and controls.
No one can teach someone else how to operate any machinery,they can advise which control parts work but at the end of the day you need to be in the seat. You should get a safe ,slow feel of the machine,No onlookers,and just feel the unit,there is really no other way,time will tell wheter you should be an operator,or watching Re-Runs of Mchales Navy.
Agreed. You'll soon find out if you've got "The Knack" for operating machinery .......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmYDgncMhXw
Running a track off is usually the result of not having it tight enough to begin with. If the idler is all the way ahead up against the stop block, the track chains are worn out. Cure? Either new chains, sprockets and possibly rollers and idlers or take one link out of what's on it and run 'em to destruction. I have several customers with smaller machines that do just that. As far as running it, slow and steady to begin with does it until you develop reflexes and don't have to consciously think about which lever does what. Speed comes with experience.
It's good that you get to start out trenching on the prairie. Just make sure you slope the trenches properly. OSHA says all trenches must be 2-1 slope unless a engineer has signed off on soil conditions allowing steeper. Trench deaths are right next to falls as the highest construction death in the USA. Enjoy your excavator, you can have a lot of enjoyment with it if not being pushed. As said before take your time and it will soon all come together. Remember also when pushing trees down, other trees being hit by the one going down can occasionally throw some pretty big sticks back at you. Edit: Post some pictures when you can. We all enjoy them.
If you've never run a 360 excavator, you'll feel a little disconcerted at the rocking back and forth that can happen when the ground underneath is a little uneven at first, but you'll eventually develop an eye for where and where not to put your excavator. Also, always check before you swing, you don't what something sneaking up on you and denting the upper structure or striking the cab, or damaging that which you swing into. Before you start trenching, just do some rough digging and try some fine movements in spreading material; it'll give you a good idea of how to keep the base of the trench level and smooth. Excavators also tend to have greater breakout force on the bucket than on the dipper, so use the bucket to dig and scoop in dense material. The temptation also exists to use the side edges of the bucket to level by swinging side to side with the bucket lowered; avoid this. It wears out the pins and so before long you'll find the bucket and crowd linkage is loose. And there is no reason to run at high revs. Keep it steady. Another general comment: keep the cab door closed; dust in the cab is so very unpleasant. And read the manual.
That, and get the utilities marked out before you start work. (Cover your behind!)
Thanks for the help. I understand the value of seat time as that is why I am buying one so seat time is not an issue. I don't want to sound presumptuous but re-iterating the value of seat time is not what I am really requesting. What is helpful is things like: -slope trenches 2:1 -dig over the idlers -there is more breakout force on the bucket than dipper so use it in dense material -Don't use the side edges of the bucket to level by swinging side to side with the bucket lowered Practical tips like this are very appreciated. If any more cross your mind please include them.
Greese is your friend. Fixing worn joints gets spendy quick. Get a book for your machine if it doesn't come with one and study it. Little maintenance items done properly will save major dollars.
Spend some time watching equipment disaster videos on you tube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctmNrKK87GA
Jump turning is using the hoe to pick up the front half of your undercarriage and then either counter-rotate or alternate track movements to turn while swinging slightly. If your only trying to turn ten or twenty degrees the angle of the house you start with doesn't much matter. For turns up to ninety degrees about half the turn works well. Jump turning is usually done to not tear up the ground you're working on. Remember tho the softer the ground you can't pick up nearly as high because then the back digs in defeating the purpose. In that case a number of smaller turns alternating from front to back works well. Final point this is also usually done with your bucket flat to minimize stress on pins/bushings.
In regards to tracks coming off my opinion is this is caused by one or a combination of the following reasons: 1. Track pins and bushing are completely shot so as to allow the chain to get out of place. 2. Track tension. Track tension. Track tension. Enough said. 3. Not paying attention to what's going on underneath. I will say that sometimes we are into things that we should not be in but sometimes necessary to get the job done. Some examples would be extremely rocky, uneven, or debris-covered ground. Again, good tracks (even ones with considerable wear) should never come off if tension is kept right, as long as the operator is aware of what's going on. HOWEVER, s@#t happens sometimes no matter how good and/or careful you are. Now as to putting the track back on. All machines will be pretty much the same and will involve loosening a grease plug to let grease out of tension cylinder that is behind the idler, then with whatever means necessary getting the track back around sprocket, idler, and over top rollers then refilling tension cylinder with grease (this done with a grease gun) and being on your merry way. Hope this helps. By the way I truck with hopper bottom in winter and have made several trips from a farm by Rabbit Lake back to ND.
Know any Pedersons up there by chance? I had no experience last year when I started trenching and working the hoe. It will take a while to get coordinated and smooth. Don't try to go fast try to go smooth speed will come. Go out in the open and practice grading a section of flat ground so you can visually see what you're doing and you can get a feel for how much you have to move the bucket boom and stick to keep things where you need them.
A friend of mine has a beat up Cat 311 in his driveway with a loose as hell right track. I mentioned if he has a grease gun handy we could tension it up for the driveway boys....and he gave me a blank stare. Yup....that's how you tension tracks. As a relatively new operator who quickly found out I have "the knack"....here's some advice. Run the machine....don't let it run you. When unpredicatable things happen and you feel like the machine is out of your control, LET GO OF THE STICKS. There's a temptation to just "drive on" and flail around...but don't do this. Just let go.....and then start slowly again. Always be in control of your machine. You'll start out doing one function at a time, but be aggressive about practicing multiple moves at once. It puts your brain on the fast track to making the controls "second nature". I did this....and was surprised how fast I went from "one movement at a time" to striking a level grade at rapid pace. While it feels overwhelming at first....it quickly becomes easier to do fine work because you aren't trying to learn with full power applied to each movement....in other words, when the machine is trying to supply fluid to multiple circuits at once....none of them are moving at full speed. Watch your tailswing/boom. Especially when you get comfortable. You'll come close to hitting things quite frequently.....the key is not actually hitting them. I don't know if 2:1 sloping of a trench is quite necessary.....maybe 1:1.5. I'm an engineer, btw. I saw a trench collapse as a kid (in pure sand) that half trapped a guy so I respect it....but 1:1.5 is OSHA spec for sandy soil, the most common dangerous type. Definitely keep her greased/maintained. It really goes a long way. Swing is only for positioning....don't use it to move material. Be aware of tipping.....AND WEAR YOUR SEATBELT. You'll get pulled/jerked around quite a bit. Have fun! Running equipment has its challenges and dangers, but its a blast!
You are right. I just checked the OSHA specs. It says 1.5 to 1 up to 20 ft depth in all soil conditions. We were taught 2 to 1 by our insurance consultant at a recent safety seminar. Can't ever remember digging over 20 ft without shoring.
I have noticed lately that insurance companies are beginning to exceed OSHA in many areas. Its becoming common to hear "We have XYZ requirement." "But isn't OSHA just XY?" "Yeah, but our insurance company requires Z, too." Insurance is great and all......but at some point we, as a market, need to let them know that they're just too expensive/burdensome, and we'll just save up for our own rainy days, thank you very much. I mean.......the only way insurance companies stay in business (and make great profit) is if the average contractor is paying for more risk than they are exposed to, statistically. But of course.....usually insurance is the law. Curious......private products mandated by law.....lobbied for by giant corporations. Nothing amiss, I'm sure.
If you position the machine on uneven ground and it wants to rock, back up a little,scoop a little dirt and throw under the front of the tracks, and track up on the small piles. You have to gauge how much you need and which side deeds a little more. Let it rock a time or two and see where it's moving most. They can be difficult to handle if their rocking back and forth. You get to bouncing around in the cab and pretty soon the machine is pulling the handles for you. Renting a mini is a good idea, but don't be too discouraged if it doesn't go that well. I've always thought they are al little harder to handle than a full size machine, because they are so quick and they pull themselves around and over so much easier. If your tracks are bad or out of tension keep them running on even ground as much as possible. If one gets out from under the machine you can hear and feel it. Pick that side of the machine up with the bucket and it will go back. If the track aren't in good shape, you have to be more careful about how you approach certain jobs. I was too black and white when I said a track should never be run off an excavator. If you are running around with loose wore out ropes on it you will probably loose one once in a while.
I learned the excavator mostly from my uncle who is retired now. But I'd bet big money he could still out produce 95% of operators today. SAFETY FIRST Dig a trench in loose sand with your own arm with hand cupped like an excavator bucket. Throw the sand to the side as fast as you can and observe the angle of your hand as your trenching and dumping. Then with excavator at full throttle(so hyd pumps work properly), with out trying to be fast, extend stick 3/4's or more out with dumped bucket, pull stick in at steady pace while curling bucket in & adjusting boom up and down to stay level. Soon as you can get a full bucket start lifting, swinging, extending stick out then dumping. Before all material is out of bucket start swinging back while still dumping to empty bucket and get another one Keep in mind point A to point B, no extra movements (it ads minutes & distance that wares out machine faster).
Do any of you have videos or a youtube channel I could watch for more learning? How is this ... ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTOzrkC-21M
Fellow on youtube called "letsdig 18" is a good operator, his name on this forum is dirtman2007
We Lived on a farm for 38 years, having any equipment is a blessing. We bought a 4-5ton mini ex a few years back and i don't think any other piece of equipment is more fun to operate! We watched every Utube video we could find and then began operating. Work it, learn it and be safe.