I am trying to remove both front wheel spindles from my 1968 580CK, and as the pics show below, I am having one heck of a time trying to get one of them off: This is one of the spindles that came off pretty easy: Here is a pic of the stuck one. I have tried placing blocks of wood on top of the spindle king nut and wamming the heck out of it with a 16Lb sledge hammer ..but it only splits open the wood blocks. I tried putting the blocks on the lower part of the "L" shaped spindle and wacking the heck out of it with the sledge hammer......no luck, except for making kindling out of the blocks. I have been soaking the sucker with PB McBlaster for about a week, and spraying more every day......but PB is getting frustrated. Today I tried a new method......I raised the loader bucket up off the ground, and then used a floor jack to jack up on the steering arm (which is the part that needs to come up and off). So, I estimate that I have a good 2000 lbs of weight pushing up on the steering arm. With this pressure, I again tried the sledge hammer against the King Nut, and busted another piece of 2x4, and no indication that the steering arm wants to move. You cant really see it in the pic, but there is about 1/4" gap between the cynder block and tractor frame, and also the hydraulic jack and the frame......so all the weight was over pushing up on the steering arm. I guess the only thing left is to get a torch and heat the steering arm and bang the crap out of it again. Any other wise ideas from the experts???? Thanks.....Im running out of blocks to smash my sledge hammer into.
Sounds like you need some heat and more pounding.
No offense but you're looking to get hurt using bricks and cinder blocks. This is from experience, get some good timbers, railroad tie chunks, steel I beam, or big round pipe or square or rectangular tube with some plate or channel welded across the open ends to use for stands or cribbing. Even hardwood log rounds are okay in a pinch, but not on end, take a chain saw and trim two sides flat so you won't split the wood from end to end as easily. Now, get the axle setting hard on the blocking/jack, let the steering arm rest on the axle, turn that nut upside down or preferably find one the same size thread without the castle slots, so you have a flat surface at the top, , you want the nut just a finger nail or less above the top of the spindle threads. Heat the steering arm on the side away from where the steering cylinder mounts. Shouldn't have to be red, just smoking a bit. Hold a heavy block of steel, or if you have a five pound hammer, hold that centered on top of the spindle, hit 'er fair with the BFH, one shot should do it. That would be how I'd approach it, others may have a better idea. Good luck, be safe!
Mike.....Okay.....heat and more brute force.....thats a 10-4. Lantraxco.....Yep.....That cracked brick and stacked cinder block is not the best idea....guess I was rushing things too fast when I used them. I will fetch some railroad tie pieces and redo. I think I will go ahead and disconnect the steering cylinder and get that link out of the way. That way, it wont get banged/damaged by mistake, and I can heat the steering arm all around. Good idea turning the king nut upside down....will do...and better if I can find another to use. You say to hold a 5lb hammer on top the king nut, and then slam the hammer with a BFH. Whats a BFH? I know what **** is, but not a BFH. I hope I have one of those BFH's laying around.........maybe same as the 16lb sledge? Hey.....you think a super heavy duty steering wheel puller would fit from the king nut down and under the steering arm, and would be able to pull her up and off? Another idea I just had would be to remove the power steering cylinder, and then rotate the steering arm around so I can slam upward on that other end of the steering arm, while the floor jack is still pushing about 2000 lbs upward. (Wondering if when that thing breaks free and soars up into the sky, it may go into the stratosphere and come down on the white house and knock out that joker residing there....ha ha). Thanks for the advice.
BFH= Big, er, um, *FINE* Hammer, yes 16 pounder qualifies. In my youth I would use a 20 or sometime 25, but these days I use hydraulics on anything a 16 won't move, lol. I wouldn't try pushing the arm up, likely to break it. In the past I have tried using pullers on this sort of thing, the bottom is usually too round to get a grip on and the places you can put a puller arm are not usually 180 apart... YMMV (your mileage may vary)
I think I would hit the flat spot on the arm with a 8lb. sledge a time or two and see if it will pop loose, that's how we take tie-rod ends out of steering arms around here. The force will momentarialy widen the hole and let the shaft loose. Now if the splines are partially twisted you have another problem. You might have to cut it with a slicer wheel and later weld it back together. Just another perspective!
Lantraxco......ok....got it.....Big Fine Hammer...... Pushing the arm "up".....well, as you can see in the pics, I was using the floor jack to push up on it, and it was raising the front end of the tractor. I agree....I would hate to break it......but that sucker must come off.....and at this point Im getting like Yosemite Sam,and may pull out my .45 and start shooting.......with my BFC......(thats Big Fine Colt). Another thing I might try........is to tighten the King Nut back down and draw that steering arm down further into its splines......that might force it past some rusty resistance point, and then it may move backwards and off......maybe????? RePowerguy......I guess you mean to hit "down" on the flat spot of the arm......which would be driving it down on the splines even further (as I mentioned above by torquing down the King Nut again). Slicer Wheel.......man, that sounds like a knarley and destructive machine.......and my ole 580CK would probably hi-tail it to another state if he saw it coming.
I'am with lantraxco on the jack on one side of the arm you are going to snap it off it's cast I think and theres no warning just the!@#$%^&*** after wards. I would remove the steering cycld like you said but use another jack also and putt a little pressure on it also even though it's not 90' it will spread out the force then put some heat on it and I would think it will pop loose pretty eze and make you mad that you didn't do it that way first :my2c
I thought he meant sideways, like in the second pic with the cold chisels. Give it some heat fast and put one big hammer behind the arm, and hit it with a medium hammer right on that flat spot, so that the force is squishing the "sleeve". Or it may be that you need hydraulic power, like a jack with something welded together under that arm to pull it up. Hitting it with a wood block to cushion the blow isn't much force to break something loose, so it might not take that much. Definitely don't lift on the end of the arm.
What i do instead of turning the nut over is to get a deep nut with the same size threads and another bolt the same size. Screw the nut down until you have lots of threaded piece on the machine into it, then screw the bolt down into the deep nut until it contacts the top of the kingpost, use a wrench to tighten the bolt into the nut Now when you beat the heck out of it with the BFH, there is just about zero chance of mashing the threads. Now take a hammer (not the BFH ) maybe like a small sledge and beat around the outer part of the steering arm. Your second pic down showing that nice flat spot. Give it a couple of good cracks. Now, go ahead and hit the top of the bolt you just installed, a BFH is the proper tool. A little heat will do wonders, you really don't need much. I use this method to remove lots of tapered ball studs on our logging trucks, tie rod ends and such. It works really good I have a selection of the different sizes that i use in my tool box always ready to go.
Hey wornout wrench, that's a great idea!
Oh good, I made some sense there. Some times my descriptions don't work out too well. It works really good and you don't mash your castle nut or take a chance of hitting the threads. One of these days when the back gets better I will take some pictures or make a few youtubes of some of the trick I have learned in the last 40 years of twisting wrenches. I love passing these things on to the next gen of mechanics. The old guys taught me, now I am one of the old guys so time to pay it forward a bit.
wornout wrench......Hey, thats a great idea using a larger nut to replace the castle nut, and screwing another bolt into it to crash and smash on. I will see if I can find one this morning at Fastenall......$5 well spent. I think I will first crank down on that Castle Nut and see if I can get the spindle to go back the other way maybe 1/4 inch. Then I will back it back off, and repeat all the slamming/banging and cussing.....and with the larger nut and bolt inserted, just maybe she will pop loose......also, I will get my baby torch and try to get it a few degrees warmer. If I do use the floor jack again, I will bring out both and put upward pressure on both "wings" of that steering arm. Will also see if Fastenall might just happen to have stick of dynamite......as that is what Yosemite Sam and Wylie Coyote would use.
Delmer....now thats a good idea......maybe welding a piece of strong metal under the arm so I wont risk snapping off the steering arm. Will send pics of the final results.......hopefully positive. clintn......good advice......I would be really cussing if that sucker snapped off.....Im not even sure if I could find a replacement for that 50 year old part.
Are those cold chisels you have driven into spindle pivot area ? Be very careful. I witnessed a cold chisel in a situation like that once. The pressure on it ejected it 20 feet in the air and it went completely through the back cab window of the mechanics truck. Another thing that may work is an air chisel with a pointed bit applied to the center of the spindle. I have removed steering wheels using that method.
it looks like tapered splines on that shaft so I don't think it will tighten up any more
Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant to hit it sideways on the flat spot between the chisels. A slicer wheel is a thin (.045) cutting wheel I use on a 4 1/2 in angle grinder for cutting whatever needs attention! If the spline has a twist in it that may be your only option if you want to salvage both pieces. If you are careful, it can be welded back and maybe fishplated and be good as new, just with a scar from your surgery!
Tinkerer.....Yep, some sharp-edged cold chisels wedged between some very greasey/oiley washers. Glad you gave this warning........dont need those popping out under all that pressure and going through my body parts. That air chisel idea sounds good....kinda like a jack-hammer beating down on the spindle. Didnt have time today to try any of these new tricks, but maybe tomorrow. Got new bearings coming in, and I want to get that sucker off asap. This time I will put some of that grey anti-seize on it.......so the mechanic 50 years from now wont go through this pain and suffering.
clintm.....Well, the top of the steering arm was not all the way on the spindle grooves.......I think the top surface of the steering arm was about 1/2" higher than where the splines begin.......so it looks like it should have been able to go on further. Guess it wouldnt hurt to crank the castle nut down and see if the steering arm does move down.....maybe that would help free it up and then pop off easier when pushing the other way.
repowerguy.......Oh......ok....hitting it sideways. Will add that to the list of tricks I need to try. Great description on the slicer wheel procedure......and another good idea. But Im feeling "lucky" as ole Clint would say, and Im thinking shes gonna come off tomorrow.....without bringing out the nasty slicer wheel.
wornout wrench.....Well, I tried fastenall, but they did not have a long nut that size.....I think it is 1 1/8"ID. I would have to find two short ones and weld them together. McMaster Carr might have them, but I would have to wait about a week for it to arrive.
Update on the spindle removal: I took out those dangerous cinder blocks, and put a scrap railroad tie and wood blocks to support the tractor. I then rotated the spindle so that I could put a jack under each of the two arms on the steering arm. I applied equal jack pressure and moved the tractor axle about 1/4" off the blocks. I then screwed the Castle Nut back onto the spindle top, about flush with the top of the threads. I wacked her a few times on top, and on the sides with a sledge hammer, but she gave no sign of wanting to move. So, I fired up the baby propane torch (too small for this job), and slowly heated all around the steering arm, about 10 minutes. Then I quickly began pounding on the top Castle Nut/Spindle with some serious slams, but she still showed no desire to move. I then wacked her on the sides, and then back on the top, then back on the sides.....still nothing. So I took out the two jacks pushing up on the steering arm, let the axle rest on the wood blocks, and heated the steering arm again. This time I continued pounding on the top castle nut, and slammed some good bangs into the side of the steering arm. Then I noticed it slowly moving a few thousandths....so, I kept banging like a jack hammer. After I was drenched in sweat, the spindle finally moved the entire gap to where the castle nut was now holding the spindle. At that point, I began trying to remove the Castle Nut. Well, apparently I had pounded so hard on the top of the spindle/castle nut, that I had forced the metal threaded portion of the spindle to bend/warp downward inside the castle nut. So, the threads were cross-threaded. I had to use a huge breaker bar/pipe and slowly squeal that castle nut off (see pics). Needless to say, I had to order a new spindle and castle nut. The top of the spindle is too short to allow me to cut the bad part off, and its too damaged to try to fix the threads. At least I got the spindle off, along with the rusty, dilapadated needle bearings.
Side notes......I forgot to put the Castle Nut on upside-down......that might helped to preserve the top of the spindle threads. I could not get the steering hydrualic cylinder to come off, and thats why it was still attached.....I will have to heat that one and hopefully get it to bang off. With the spindle off, I think I can rotate it 180" and be able to slam down on the bolt. Thanks for all the good tips.......at least I did not have to rip it open with that slicer wheel.