I am posting some pictures of how I tried to remove the stuck needle bearings which surround the wheel spindle on the front axle. This might help someone else who tackles this job. I first tried using a 3/4" drive socket extension and hitting from the bottom with a hammer. I had soaked PeeBeeMcBlaster on it for about a week, but this method only knocked more needle bearings out, and began to damage the outer bearing itself. This picture shows how I then tried using a hydraulic jack to apply a couple thousand pounds of pressure from the bottom, and I used a Metric socket Size 38 on this smaller upper needle bearing. Well, I managed to lift the entire tractor up and off the blocks using this method, but the needle bearing would not budge at all. I also tapped on the axle around the bearing, but that did not help either. I was about to bring out the mini torch and try heating the axle, and then I thought I would try tapping down on the bearing from the top.....maybe get it to move a bit and then tap again from the bottom. As this pic shows, tapping downward worked ALOT better.....after many hard bangs, it started moving downward, easier with every tap. So, I just kept going with the motion until the top bearing fell downward on the larger bottom bearing. I then just kept pounding using the Metric 38, and slowly the bottom needle bearing started to move and then popped out quicker than a pole cat skedattling up a tree followed by a hound dog. Here are pics of the sockets and the two bearings: Now my follow-up question: Since the upper bearing did not want to come out from the top, should I put the new needle bearings in from the bottom? Or, should I use some fine sandpaper and clean up any rough edges around the top, lube it, and then try lightly tapping the new bearing down from the top? The two new needle bearings need to go in FIRST, before the spindle goes back in? Or, can you put the bearings on the spindle and then slide the spindle into place? All advice would be appreciated.
Im hoping to get some quick advice on installing the upper and lower needle bearings on the spindle. I have checked the shop manual, and it gives no info. on how to do this job. Do I oil the axle hole where the spindle goes, and then try tapping the new Upper Spindle Needle Bearing into it with a rubber mallet? If it seems too tight, is it wise to use some fine sandpaper and work out any rough edges in the axle hole? Then clean, oil, and try tapping the needle bearing in? Or, does this upper needle bearing go in from the bottom? For the Bottom Needle Bearing, it can only go in one way.....from the bottom. Just to be sure.......I first install the needle bearings into the axle hole and then grease-up and slide the "L-shaped" spindle in? (with the appropriate washers, thrust washers, etc.). I appreciate all advice.....I hate to ruin these expensive parts I just got in.
I like to measure the OD of the bearing and compare that to the ID of the spindle; micrometers and expanding bore gauges are what I use. Then I have a better idea as to how much force it will take. I would clean up the spindle bore, a hone would work best, then measure. You don't want to bang the new bearings with a hammer. They'll live longer is they are pressed into place. Needle bearings aren't as strong as a tapered roller bear to being beat on. I've seen a length of all thread as big as will fit in the spindle bore and some thick steel plates with a hole in them to insert the all thread into. Then tighten the nuts on the all thread and push the bearings in; one at a time. Or make up a press frame for your hydraulic press, just something rectangular that will be big enough. Get a brass hammer while you're shopping, 2lbs is a good size.
El Hombre.......Thanks for the input. I will definately measure the new spindle bearings and compare to the ID of the axle spindle hole. Since the axle spindle hole is 50 years old, and "should" have some wear, I would imagine that the new bearings wont be too tight. After measuring, I may have to "clean-up/smooth" the surface of the spindle hole a bit, as you said. Since you advised "pressing in" the bearings, do you also reccomend that I press in the top spindle bearing by putting it in from the BOTTOM, instead of the top? I found that it was easier to take out by pushing it downwards, so should I reverse this and push it in from the bottom? I could use the same 38 Metric socket/extension and an hydraulic jack to ease it upwards. (Your idea of a long piece of all-thread and some large washers is also a great idea for pressing the bearings in......in this case, do you reccomend pressing in the top bearing from the top, or from the bottom?) Here is a pic of the old bearing under the 38 Metric Socket. I could almost put an all thread through this socket and afix on the bottom with a nut and large washers, and then slowly crank down on the all-thread. Im thinking pushing the top needle bearing in from the top is best, as I can see it an ensure it stays level as it goes into the axle hole.......trying to press it in from the bottom will not allow me to see if it is going in straight.
Questions on bearing assembly: Im ready to re-assemble the thrust washers and bearings, but the shop manual and parts manual do not give clear directions on which side fits where. Here are some pics and questions: Here is a pic of the spindle with the parts laid out in the order they go on. You will see the green colored seal that goes on top of the upper needle bearing. Does it go on with the small inner spring facing down? That is, the seal goes on so you do not see the inner spring after it is installed (just a flat rubber surface facing up)? In the last two pics, you see the lower and upper wheel bearings. They have a flat side and a rounded side. Does the rounded side of the lower bearing face down and the rounded side of the upper bearing faces up? I have no clue. Here is a pic of the lower thrust washer, which has ball bearings on the inside. You will see a curved side and a flat side. Does the curved side face downward? Thanks for your help.
Final question: In the last picture, you see my finger pointing at the thrust bearing, and there is a tapered thrust washer on each side. Does the tapered portion of the thrust washer face the thrust bearing? This is how it appears in the picture above. If so, what is the reason for the tapered side (smaller surface area) contacting the thrust bearing?
1) Freeze the bearings, pull them in with the threaded rod, top from top, bottom from bottom. I would put the rounded side in first, easier to install I think. 2) The seal goes spring down, pack the spring area with a bit of grease, keeps the spring from popping out when you drive the seal in with a hammer. 3) My opinion on the thrust bearing is that it goes the way you show it with the sheet metal cover open down, keep water and dirt out better. 4)Those tapered washers I would install with the tapered side away from the bearing, but that's just me. Good luck with it.
Agreed with 4). The turned portion of the spindle has a radius on the inside and the tapered side of the washer will seat on the flat turned part instead of the radius on the inside. The ball bearing thrust washer isn't the same on both sides is it? The bottom is the same piece as the inside race, and the top is the same piece as the outer race, right? Then install it the way you have it.
Here are more detailed pics of that thrust bearing: You can see that one side (side facing bottom in my pic) has a tapered edge and then it has a crack where it meets another internal part....and thus more likely to suck in water and dirt as lantraxo said. The other side (side facing toward the spindle top in pic) is flat and has no cracks to allow water to enter. So, both of you are saying that I should flip the thrust washers over so that the flat side of the thrust washer is contacting the thrust bearing? Makes sense, as that would "even-out" the load on the bearing I would think.....instead of placing the load only on the thinner part of the tapered edge of the thrust washers. (Delmer says the lower one rests on the radius of the spindle...that makes sense....but how about the top one? There is no radius there, so why not a flat washer?) Thanks for the advice....1. I will pull them in top from top, bottom from bottom....that makes the most sense. 2. Seal with the spring down......good tip using some thick grease on the spring to keep it in place.
It's debatable which way to install the seal. In this kind of application, you're not particularly trying to keep the grease in, but keep dirt out. That would be better achieved by installing the seal with the spring up. But as I said, it's debatable............
Holy cow, Batman.......lets hop in the Bat Mobile and get out of Dodge! There seems like alot of good reasons to put these seals, thrust washers, and thrust bearings in different ways. I wonder what the old Case engineers would have to say about all this? Maybe they all had different opinions on the matter also, and maybe it really didnt matter in the first place.....since those upper and lower thrust bearings will wear out long before those thrust bearings and washers and seal will. Maybe I will just put all the parts and pieces in a paper bag, shake up real good, and reach in and grab whatever part my greasy hands grab first.....and start slapping it together based on pure random luck. Probably would not matter too much. Maybe thats why Case does not have a section in the Shop Manual on how to install these parts.....just a picture of a dart and a dart board. As long as I pack it with alot of grease, it should be fine. Could be that these thrust washers, bearings, and parts are the same ones that Fred Flintstone uses on his FlintMobile (between the hickory "Y" wood frame and that 1000 lb granite wheel). Wilma never complained.
I think a lot of people use that method. Seems to work OK for them.
That seal wasn't engineered for the top of a kingpin on a Case backhoe. It's the first 1 3/4" x 2 3/8" (or whatever) they found on the shelf when they were putting together the prototype. Normally it would be a grease seal to keep the grease in, is all Cmark was saying. It has a lip both ways, just a better lip toward the inside, which happens to be down this time around. Those tapered washers don't make a lot of sense to me. But I guarantee that the thrust bearing goes in that way, if you flip it then the side will be seated in the axle and the bottom will be seated against the washer on the spindle and the bearing won't function. Unless that whole bearing sits BELOW the axle.
Don't forget that the spindle has to be shimmed properly when you reassemble it. Look carefully at the parts list. http://partstore.casece.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr65627ar687640
Tinkerer......Yes, I will reassemble the spindle into the axle hole without the bearings first, and without the grease.....with everything except the bearings. This way I can decide if the 1/4" thick lower thrust washers (with the tapered side) are too thick.....if so, I can replace one with a thinner thrust washer. Also, I can figure out what thickness shims to use at the top, just below the Castle Nut. I guess the goal is to be able to not run out of threads on the upper spindle as you tighten the Castle Nut......and get it slightly snug so there is no up/down slop in the spindle assembly. I had about 3/8" slop before taking off each side. Tinkerer.....do you agree that these tapered thrust washers should have their "flat" side against the lower thrust bearing? One will have its tapered side against the lower portion of the spindle, and the upper one will have the tapered side toward the lower axle. Seems like this is a potential entry point for water, but maybe the grease will act as a seal.
I cannot tell you how it is supposed to be assembled. Here is the detailed assembly from the service manual.
That looks like we were wrong on the tapered washers, but I stick with my guess on the bearing. Even with that bearing below the axle housing, it still would rub on the inside if put in upside down.
Pics: These show the spindle back in place. For some reason, I was thinking that the lower thrust washers and thrust bearing were gonna slide up inside the axle hole.....but they just sit on the bottom, out in the open, ready for dirt and water to attack them. Glad I did put the thrust washer with the flat side up, to prevent water from leeching into the bearings. I still do not know why the two thrust washers are tapered.....supposing they are supposed to have the taper to the bearing, I can only guess that it was designed to hold some grease. Im gonna try to rig up some type of rubber boot to strap around the bottom to help keep the elements out. Same with the top where the castle nut is....some type of simple rubber boot would help. Looking at Tinkerer's drawing, I still cant tell if the thrust washers have taper toward bearing, or away.
Hard to see for sure, but it looks to me like both thrust washers are installed with the taper facing down?
Lantraxo....you must be commenting on Tinkerer's drawing that he attached, and not my actual picture of the installation (if your eyes are that good, Batman will be knocking at your door). However, when I saw the rough surface on the bottom of the axle hole (where I was about to slide the spindle up into), I decided to put the wider flater surface against the axle hole, and the narrow surface with the taper against the thrust bearing. On the bottom thrust washer, I also put it with the taper facing down (due to the radius on the spindle). So, I do have both thrust washers with the taper side facing down. But I cant see the blurred drawing good enough to say what the drawing shows. As Clint Eastwood would say, "Feelin lucky punk?"....maybe this punk got lucky.
Spindles and hubs all back together, and work perfectly: Got some new rubber put on......lady looks fine but I could use a shine:
Sweet!
Looking gooooood Glad to see you got it all back together
Lantraxo and worn out wrench......thanks man.....now some more sheet metal sanding/painting and she will be closer to being done:
Hi Guys, I am in the middle of reassembly on a 1968 580ck. Put the top and bottom thrust bearing washers on with the bevels facing each other and the bearing sandwiched in between. Thinking it kept the load "centered" on the inner and outer races but "a grease pocket" is just as good of an idea. (And maybe it doesn't really matter.) Certainly better now than the metal on metal that was going on when I took delivery. I realized now I should check to insure the top washer is against the housing and not riding on the bottom of the lower needle bearing. If it is (due to the chewed up housing bottom) should I add a large washer from Ace or flip the top bearing washer over to take advantage of the bevel? Also I am only doing one side and a pair of oil seals to top it off is $50+ with shipping! Is there a corresponding part number for one oil seal (from CASE or other??), would some neoprene drilled/cut to fit do the job, or does anyone have an oil seal they would like to sell? Thanks in advance.