i have a 96 perkins 1004 engine with lucas injectors. first one came out real easy, the next took some twisting back and forth and lots of penetrating oil. the third was really stuck. managed to twist it loose slightly and kept working back and forth probably a couple hundred times until it finally came out. now the 4th injector is stuck pretty good. it seems that end of the motor got more rain water due to the hood design. so more rust in the injector bore. i used a breaker bar and socket and am able to twist the upper portion (counter clockwise) of the injector loose. but the bottom wont turn when turning clockwise. i have a hammer slide coming tomorrow. though it only has a 1lb hammer on it. i couldnt find anything else online. any pointers to get it out?
Haven't ran into this myself but maybe something to get in there and eat the rust???acid??? just thinking out loud
U seem to be missing a part on that 1 that's apart.?? Spacer plate w/ the pins in it.. How did u get it out if it was stuck??
B'laster and patience. The slide hammer should help. Vibrations will help loosen the grip
Air hammer
Had luck with prying the cup seal out and flooding the area around the barrel with acetone and then PB before.
that partial injector is another one i took apart. the stuck injector is fully intact in the block. though i could unthread the upper portion of the injector off, but i'm not sure what that will acomplish, or if its a good idea.
i did just that yesterday. gonna wait for this hammer slider to come that i ordered, and hopefully knock it loose.
While you're waiting, it wouldn't hurt to soak the area with Kroil, or 50/50 acetone/ATF mix, or your favorite panther ****(penetrating oil)...
I had this happen on a komatsu dozer once. Found a lug nut at Napa that threaded onto the injector and made a puller with it. Took a lot of force to get it out but it eventually pulled out.
so the slide hammer i ordered didnt get here until 7pm. the weight is only like 1.5 lbs. i hit the thing maybe 50 times. nada. soaked with penetrating oil, and dumped acetone on there. when i was done hiiting, i put the socket on and was able to turn the injector clockwise some more from when i tightened it yesterday. so perhaps its budged? or the injector threads are strippping?? hope not. lol was getting dark, and i'll tackle this tomorrow. i need to come up with a way to apply upward pressure on the injector, while using the slide hammer. and i'll try twisiting it some more. wish me luck!
Get someone to turn it while u use the s. hammer..
Ok. I'm f@cked. I ended up stripping the threads of the injector and the upper part came out and lower piece is still in the head. At least one good thing, the nozzle comes out so perhaps I can drill this stuck piece out. Seems to be a 21.5mm bore. I see I can get 21.5mm cutters online. Any other ideas?
This is what I need to drill out. I don't think it matters if I scuff up the bore doing so as the seal is on the bottom.
Can you make a “j” hook for the end of your slide hammer and go through and catch the bottom of the injector? Maybe heat and solvent on edge of injector at top of head?
Well, now you can get in there with a blunt chisel bit on your air hammer and break that rust up. I'd try and stay away from what's left of the threads in Hope's you could screw another body into it for pulling. Good luck
Maybe consider this in the future.
I agree on the J Hook or fashion a adaptor to go into the nozzle bottom hole as a Blind Hole puller and slide hammer that piece out, the second you set a drill to that you are asking to buy a new head as that is a THIN region of that head.
I'm afraid it's time to cut your losses, pull the head and take it to the machine shop.
Cmarks got the right idea.. & the way u should proceed from here on out.. SKATA> Your 1st sentence is right on the money..{post #13} A cutter aint gonna do it.. Is that an injector tube, the inj. is in?? no wonder its stuck.. IF a slide hammer stripped the threads of the injector.. do u guys REALLY THINK a J-hook is gonna help.?? U cant get UNDER the bottom of the injector.. its sealed w/ a copper gasket to the head..
I wasn't getting anywhere with the slide hammer so i used a socket and breaker bar and turned the injector clockwise in hopes of breaking it loose. Instead I stripped the injector body. I'm not sure a j hook will work. I'm guessing the nozzle is the same diameter as the hole in the head. So there wouldn't be anywhere to grab. I ordered some carbide hole cutters and bit . I'm going to try drilling it out before I will take the head out.
On the brite side.. you'll only have to take the old head off once.. .. just to get it out of the way for the new one.. lol.!!! Good luck. {seriously} Do u have access to an oxy/acet. torch?? Take another injector apart & use the body or see if it will screw down in the nozzle nut.. Fire up the torch & put it in the inj. hole & let'r get HOT.. real hot.. then screw the "new body" onto the nut & use a slide hammer to pop it up or use the air hammer method.. IF the body screws down into the stuck nut, I think it'll work.. IF u get it hot..
If you're determined to proceed, the first trick you should try is cutting a thread in the injector body. It doesn't matter what pitch or thread form it is as long as you can screw in a long bolt and fabricobble a big slide hammer together. Use the best quality tap you can find, solid carbide preferably but at least HSS. Whatever you do you will need to be really careful about getting swarf into the cylinder. Shove something into the hole like a foam ear plug.
Take a fine tip oxy acetelyne torch and heat a few spots along that injector body red hot, the cup can't expand in the bore so the red hot will displace the metal, when it cools it'll shrink by a few thou easily. This works on anything that's in a tight bore, even a frozen bolt, drill a hole clean through it, blast it with a welding torch tip, when it cools you'd find the drill won't fit down the hole as the bore shrunk a bit.
Might be a good place to try the bolt buster, If you have enough left sticking out, to heat, But $400 bucks may be a lil pricey, for an experiment... Otherwise, to save time and the head, either take the head to a shop, or take it off, turn it over, and get out the BFH, a suitable punch and hope for the best...
I'm at a lose as to what to "try" next.. because the only part that would be accessible from the underside would be the tip/nozzle.. but the only thing holding IT IN was the body.. & now ITS stripped out.. So u cant flip the head & pound on the tip.. IF I'm not mistaken, they sit in a brass sleeve..injector tube?? BUT IDK if they have to be reamed after they're put in..?? Because my next thought would have been, run threads in the tube & pull IT OUT along w/ the rest of the injector{noz. nut} BUT if it has to be reamed after install, that's prob. out of the question. {buncha new tools} U would have to get an engine manual to tell or if u know what an inj. tube looks like, u can tell.. its just a thought.. Sorry bud, I think your up Sh*ts Creek w/o a paddle..?? I sure hope u have some luck w/ it..
Have some hope, a little careful heating and shrinking and that should loosen up a bit!
I think "hope" & "luck" is ALL WE HAVE right now..
I was game on warm up the engine, loosen injector and start engine, wait for the POP! then go find the injector.
THAT DOES work on some engines.. Cant do it now.. theres no "body" to hold the compression in..{stripped threads}
The threads are part of the lower injector body half. That is the part I'm going to attempt to drill out. Rust is the only thing holding it in place. The hole in the head is straight and smooth. The injector just drops right in. And there is a clamp and 2 bolts that hold the injector down.
Don't drill anything, cut threads with a new hss tap. Get a bolt the same thread and use a full sized slide hammer
Cutting threads might work, depends on how thick the metal is, I imagine that rust has quite an expanded layer there. Guessing a welding torch isn't available for spot heating. if you could plug the hole into the engine, maybe a tuft of fiberglass, put a regular nut in there and mig weld it in place, you'd end up with the welding shrinkage and some stout threads to pull on. I love my gas axe, its so versatile
My plan is to drop the nozzle back in the hole to prevent debris going into engine. And use a cutter like in the picture. I'll just remove the center bit. Just waiting for it to arrive. And no I dont have a torch.
I 'd endorse the heating that fast_st suggested. Torch or welder... Heating a constrained part technique straightened a bent fork that available brute force couldn't Without the center drill on the cutter, there's nothing to center the cutting. You risk the head as pumpguy says.
opportunity to buy a hot wrench!! Everybody likes new toolz!!!
Even a mapp torch might help at this point. You can score one at the local ace for 40 or so. We are just trying to keep you from irreversible damage to the cylinder head. Whatever path you choose, good luck. You have your work cut out for you.
Follow this man's advise.
I have snapped off a few injectors in my time. I drilled them through the center just far enough to cut a few threads in it and used a bigger slide hammer. I haven't had one defeat me yet.
THAT TOOL looks like it'll get the job done.. Good luck.
Got it out . Cylinder bore did get marked up a bit but the copper sealing washer on the injector bottom didn't get touched. Took maybe half hour. Drill a little, stick vacuum tube in bore and suck debris. Repeat many times. Now I just have to figure how to put it back together! Got a new set of injectors from perkins. Oh and in case anyone else needs to tackle this in the future, I'd recommend going slightly smaller with your bit size. The injector diameter is 21.5mm and I used a 21mm cutter. I would go a little smaller if I had to do it again.
Good job, looks like there is a lot of rust in those bores? Is it a good idea to flap wheel them out and slather a little oil on there, maybe some way to help seal them from the top as well?
Yes. I'm going to put an old nozzle tip down in the bore to prevent debris going in engine, and then flap wheel the bores, then vacuum. Also will coat the bore and new injector with antiseize lubricant.
If u have an old steel fuel line laying around, use that w/ a piece of scotchbrite.. Cut a slot in the steel line & slide a piece of SB in the slot & put it in a drill & go to town.. Just remember to roll the engine over w/ the starter, to blow as much old carbon & SB outta the hole. GREAT JOB on getting that nozzle nut outta the hole.!!!! To be honest, I never thought it would work..
How hard is it to walk with the horseshoe in yer back pocket? .5 mm wiggle room, no pilot, and you straight up cut that rascal out of there. You really shoulda youtubed that. You'd have had 20 views already. Great job .
All done.. She runs good. Hopefully there is no more smoking on cold startup, which is why I replaced these injectors.
Poor mans brake cylinder hone!!, Still own a few of those.
Would have been really easy to set up a Pilot mandrel for the centering bit replacement, I do own a lathe for such small things.