I have a customer who called me to look at this pond. His concern is the erosion, especially the area closest to the camera. He said last year he was able to drive across the dam. He said at some point someone sat on the dam with an excavator and reached out and dug a channel along the dam placing the spoil on top. He wants to fix it. He doesn’t want to drain the pond. I’m looking for ideas. Thanks for the help.
I'd rip rap it and get some vegetation growing,,, wave action seems to be the culprit.
id go with rip rap, clean up the edge so its not so steep and then sod it. just what ever you do stay away from cat tails, ive heard of too many people who think some would look nice and throw some seeds into the pond and it takes over all the edges and ruins the pond.
I agree rip rap and grass seed. Fence off the dam to keep the livestock off of it.
Fence the cows off the dam and spillway. Come back and look at it in late summer, maybe he won't mind draining it if it's already just a mudhole. I don't know what you could do with it anytime soon?
I don't think there is a better way to take care of it other than pump it down, reshape the dam to what it was and of course compacting any new soil added to it, placing geotextile fabric and placing rip rap to about a 2 foot depth. That's usually what's done around here when restoring river banks from erosion.
Yair . . . Very strange. Thats a tiny little dam (pond) to be damaged by wave action. Would it be possible the inner bank was left steep and there has been a slip? As has been posted to fix it properly it needs siphoning or pumping down and more good compactable material put in place . . . an excavator with a roller as used in trenches would probably do a good job. Around here rip-rap is expensive and on small structures such as this is usualy not needed . . . we find couch grass quite effective as it follows the water down as the level drops in the dry season. As has been mentioned keeping stock of the bank would help. Cheers
Draining is the best option but if he insists on no draining then I have to agree with the others rip-rap and grass seed. Eric12 is correct about the cattails they can be a huge pest. Cattails do help with cleaning water and are even edible, but they will take over.
I agree on the rip-rap and grass, however how deep is the pond? If the pond is deep and it looks like the dam area would be the deepest spot, it could take many loads of rip-rap to bring it up enough to stop the erosion. Second question what is the availability of rip-rap in your area and the cost? Pumping it down and re-shaping the dam may be the owners cheapest solution.
Thanks for all the help. I was thinking rip rap also, appreciate the conformation. I think scrub puller is right, the toe has slipped. The cattle and wave action caused/contributed/made it worse. Waiting till late summer is also a good idea, as dry as it is it would be a shame to loose any of the water. I know that the state has a big pavement patch job coming up in the area, this would be a short haul and convenient place for them to dump the broken concrete. I think I'll tell him to get on that and speak for as much of it as he can. Then we will wait till late summer. Real rip rap would be better but cost and availability would make it prohibitive.
Cattle are the worst things for a pond. You can reshape the dam and install rip-rap but if he doesnt keep the stock out they will begin to water somewhere else, first eroding the banks to very steep little cliffs then creating a muddy "marsh" area as their feet push the soil out into the pond itself. If it were my job I'd bid it in two phases. The first is fix the dam when the pond is low, re-shape it and install large 12+ rock along the bottom just under the lowest water level. Then move up with 8-12" rip rap to protect the dam. Secondly fence the pond and either add a gravity fed watering system or cut a ramp in the bank, rock the floor of it with 2" rock and install and inset in the fence to allow the stock only a controlled portion of the bank to water in. 2" rock will keep a solid footing for cattle to walk on the ramp but it discourages them from loafing in the water and on the ramp. I've done both and even done it witout the rip-rap with success. Left as it is the cattle will cut a weak spot in the dam, water will begin to flow through there instead of the spillway and then it gets real expensive to repair. Been there too. John
If it were me, I would pump it down and build the damn back up with clay. Then roll filter cloth over the clay and put rip rap on top of it.
I can't really comment on the repair, but I'll mention this. Tell your customer that once he has the dam fixed to fence it off and add a solar or wind pump to pump water into a tank for watering his livestock. They are really hard on the banks of any water source. I've seen it, and have a couple of water holes that are going to need to be cleaned out. The interesting thing about providing livestock with an remote watering station is that they will actually prefer to drink from it than the pond. Its dry, the water is cleaner, and its safer for the animals as there isn't a chance for them to get stuck in the mud. Also any health issues from foot rot or what have you is pretty much eliminated. On our feeders when they are on grass we have seen anywhere from half to one pound a day increase in gain from watering out of a remote site. Its interesting to watch the cattle walk past an unfenced pond to get to the tank to drink.
Interesting thread and info about raising livestock. I know as much about raising cattle as I do electricity - which is just enough to be dangerous. If your not learning something everyday, your brain is rotting.
Yair . . . I hear you farmerleach Our bores are no good for crop irrigation but fine for livestock. I have seen weaners wading through clean floodwater up to their briskets to drink at the trough. Cheers
Build a new dam, move the dam about 50 yards. Excavate between the old and new, using the dirt to build a new dam. Fence the new dam, rip rap, also do not let trees grow around the dam. Once the dam is complete remove old dam, slowly open the dam as to let the water to release slowly. Work from the center, reaching as far to the left and right as you excavate the old dam.
Done so many of them I've lost count, someone's dug the pond deeper with an excavator and used the fill for building up the dam, but nobody ever came back once the mud was dried to level it off, its pretty typical in iowa for ponds with cattle to look like that. Just tell the owner he has two options either spend some bucks or save some cash, he'll jump at the cheaper method, then knock a hole in the dam and drain it, let it dry and then dig or shove up a lot higher dam and also two or three times wider and make sure the outlets good, forget the rip rap, he'll never leave the cattle off it long term anyhow, they never do, don't seed any reeds canary grass or cattails or any other garbage crap in or along the pond, unless he plans on doing it all over again. Forget the watering and any other option to keep the cattle off, its not going to happen anyhow, he's always had cattle along and around the pond and he likes it that way, your not going to change him of this habit anyhow, no matter what you tell him. Do it cheap, keep him happy and in ten years go back and do it again for him. If you rip rap it, and dump a lot of money into it, his cattle will get hurt off it your never going back, his cattle are his priority, not his pond, and if he's at or above 50 years old or older don't do or put anything there to harm his cattle or cause him grief. Once done seed it down and turn the cattle back in, just make sure you widen the dam considerably, that way his cattle won't slide into the pond or slip around the dam and slide off it. Any mesh, rip rap, concrete or fencing you put there, the more he'll be upset with later on, dig it as deep as you can and in a few years it'll silt back in anyhow over time, make sure the dam is at least 5 feet higher than the outlet tube, higher if you can, so when the cattle walk it down over time and rains wash it off and shorten it, it stays wide enough for his cattle to walk along the dam. If he refuses to allow the dam to be opened up,which will probably be the case, rent a long reach excavator and dig the entire pond deeper, spread the dirt out along the edge of the pond, let it dry, the cattle will walk it down some anyhow, and when fairly dry, go back and build the berm up, higher, wider and put a lot more dirt on the backslope of the pond. The only reason he'll never allow the dam to be opened up is because he wants the water for his cows, most don't want it drained for that reason, and if you drain or pump it out, he'll be beyond upset with you, he'll want the water in the pond, not being pumped out, so mention it, but watch his face when you do, his expression will pretty much tell it all, hence the long reach option and letting the pure mud slop dry, just leave some places for his cows to get water from the pond, most likely the upper most end across the entire width of the pond, your not using the dirt there anyhow, don't pile it there at all. Just make sure if you go in with any excavator you don't dig it so deep you hit rock and it leaks, the cattle will walk the mud and clay back down over time anyhow and pack it, just make sure his cattle can walk gently into the pond on most all edges, forget ponds for looks idea's, this is for cattle, and he wants to see his cows walk gently into the pond, not slide in or have to jump up out of the pond, ask him how deep he wants it dug, most guys want it shallow enough for his cattle to still walk across the pond anywhere, but some want deep water, that's a personal preference thing that varies from farmer to farmer, so ask him and give him what he wants, and go back when he wants it done again. He'll pretty much tell you what he wants when you talk to him, just give him what he wants, no matter what your thinking a pond should look like or how long you think it should last. I'm not sure what part of iowa your in, but it doesn't really matter, the pond has been there as long as the guy has farmed probably and he knows what he wants, just be upfront and honest, if the cattle are going to be around it, he'll have maintenance issues, which he already knows anyhow. If you try to get him to spend a lot of money on it, or put a lot of junk around it, even if it's his idea to try, in the end he'll be mad at you for doing it, just keep it simple and as low cost as possible and you'll get to do it again and again, I know of several ponds that have been redone about every five-ten years, and they've been there for 50 plus years. Best of luck
Yair . . . heavylift You must have deep pockets mate. That plan would be completely impractical to most folks because of the cost. The fact is there appears not to be too much wrong with the wall. . . there has been no mention of it leaking. If it has slumped it has probably settled and consolidated and in fact the problem to some extent is just cosmetic. A few yards of good fill carted in and compacted would tidy it up and straighten the lines if thats the biggest worry. A structure of that size does not need to be a full blade wide across the top. Dam walls that are subject to stock walking over them are not permanent structures they need maintaining . . . just pushing some "top dressing" up from the bottom side would help. As I said I don't see this as any big deal . . . provided it's not leaking Cheers,
catman977 Hey guys that would be a snap for an old dragline. Anyone here know how to op one? lol
Hi Guys this looks like a job for an old dragline!!!
Just drop some boulders in at the edge of the water and cover with small rocks just make sure you have the boulder above the water. it will take a long time for the water to erode the rock away and it will slow the ground from eroding. Then build up the non water side to make the road again it looks like a farm so you should have most of the stuff you need right there. You can even rebuild the road over the boulders you will just need more than double the boulders.
We also use 1x4 inch rock on ponds. It's generally place all around the pond, this is to keep the wave action from eroding all the edges. It's usually 4 to 6 feet wide. Can't really tell by the photo's but it appears that it doesn't have an emergency overflow spillway cut on either side. If the pond can fill to the top during a major rain event that can cause the erosion to start. Plus the water could overtop the dam, causing it to fail.
Well said Randy88!!! As excavators and professionals we all have an idea to fix this issue long term. But most farmers won't do it that way. Coming from an Ag background and community I've seen it a lot and still do even in my own family. Farmers love ponds, but they won't spend not one extra nickel on one to make it last.... John
I agree with what Randy88 said completely but would offer an additional suggestion. If material is available closebuy it may be easier to clean the vegetation off of the downstream side and construct an additional 8' wide lift from the toe to the top. One would want to key into the existing dam (slightly) with corner bit so as to prevent having a smooth mating surface between the new and old, and compact well from bottom to top. Once that is complete there would be enough width at the top (probably at least 12'). The dam face will likely continue to slough until it is back to about a 3:1, but with the additional width it should not be at risk for failure. The problem in my opinion is what was mentioned in the beginning, that the owner had someone come in and excavate the face of the dam at one time. The water side of the embankment should not be steeper than 3:1. One thing to remember, always have the spillway low enough to allow a minimum of 1.5' of freeboard on the embankment, and always construct spillway in native material beyond the end of the constructed embankment. A note of caution if this method is used is that vibratory compaction equipment could aggrevate the core of the existing dam if it is saturated, so each lift should be compacted, bot not over worked or it could be possible to create leakage through the core before the new embankment construction is complete. I believe that this could be done as economically as draining and re-building the existing structure, and at less cost than importing rip rap and installing geotextiles.