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Huldtins 850 super fell head on a Timberjack 950 buncher

Jfayen ยท 2016-12-19 23:34

I am hoping that one of the forum members has mounted a Huldtins 850 superfell head on a Timberjack 950 buncher carrier. We have two 950's- one in semi retirement and one in active duty as our cut-down machine with a 24 in hotsaw. A number of years back we had some blowdown in the area and found a Cat 325 fb carrier with the Huldtins. It did what we wanted but the carrier was pretty tired and has long since travelled off to Fraley's. We kept the head though and I've been working on setting it up on an old Mar heel rack we also have kicking around the yard with the idea of being able to switch back and forth between the hotsaw and the felling head as conditions warrant. The rack we already modified with an old wrist from a hotsaw so it will pin to the 950 stick- I have used it with a grapple for units with a lot of oversize to help the clambunk with the butts. I have fabbed up the knuckle so the heel rack and the head mate and have now gotten to the plumbing and electrical stage. So, any help or advice would be appreciated. I am thinking that I will lay out what I am thinking for any interested reader to look at, but again, any advice, experience or ideas will be much appreciated. The Hultdins head needs 47, call it 50 gpm @ 4700 psi for the saw function. The 950 has 3 pumps, variable displacement, pressure compensated. The main has 146 gpm @ 5400, the saw pump is 30 gpm @ 4700 and the head function pump is 20 gpm @ 2700. My thought is that I will need to add a section to the main or carrier valvebody- currently 6 pilot activated sections in a 9 section main valve, and pull oil from the main pump for the saw/tilt function of the head. Huldtins used a 3 way rocker switch with a two way toggle on one joystick to run the saw valve and to activate a dump valve for the tilt during saw function, I am thinking to do the same, an electric over hydraulic valve to pull pilot pressure to activate the new valve section and an electric over hydraulic dump valve as well. There is room or height for adding a section under the engine compartment lid and if we retire the older 950 I have access to a complete valve body as well as tubes to plumb it up the boom and down the stick. One question I have is how to replace the tie bolts for the valve, Gr7 reddi rod? It looks like the plumbing modifications for the valvebody lines would be fairly minor, the tank line is a hardline and may have to be fabbed up. I have not been able to find anyone who can tell me it won't work, but no one knows if it will either! I thought to put the section either above the swing, third up from the bottom, or above the boom, fourth up from the bottom, don't know if it would make any difference or not, was wondering if any of the porting is different in the sections. I am willing to try it, but once committed the old 950 will be officially retired, would prefer to have a bit more confirmation of success before we go ahead on her. The saw would on pull 50 gpm, and in general would be used by itself, not like a hotsaw where I multifunction, so other function impact would be minimal. The other head functions I am thinking of running out of the top 3 sections of the main valve that use oil from the implement pump and are electric over hydraulic. They run the head side tilt, accumulator and top clamps now, the pump puts out 20 gpm @ 2700 psi. Using the existing joystick controls I would run the tilt circuit for head rotate and was thinking of running both clamp circuits together, through blocks on the heel rack,for the grapple function. Hultdins specs 37 gpm for the grapple, seems as though by combining flow I could get enough oil to make it fast enough. A little creative wiring with some weatherpac connectors would make it simple quick and easy to switch between heads too, an important concern. I would set up the lines at the end of the stick with threaded quick couplers so I would hope that a switch between heads would mean the two pins, connecting the lines, throwing a master switch for the joystick switch power and swapping the connectors for the clamp circuits. Well that is a long story but I hope it makes sense and someone either has done it or can see that it will, or won't , work and is willing to give me their two cents worth! Thanks in advance!

Replies6
  1. #1f311fr12017-01-06 20:42

    do you have a hydraulic schematic of the existing valve bank?

  2. #2Plebeian2017-01-07 19:55

    The early Hultdins 850 were run on machines smaller than the 325. The figures on the TJ 950 -engine 230 hp Cummins, Main pump - travel, swing and boom pump 1 (0-126gpm @2000rpm), clamp & wrist pump 2 - (0-32gpm@2000rpm), saw pump 3 (0-20.1gpm@2000rpm) Operating pressures - Boom system -4350psi, Wrist/claw 2540psi, Swing -3045psi, Travel -5075psi, pilot - 508psi, Saw - 4350psi The Hultdins 850 saw motor was listed as a 19cc unit, the saw pump alone should turn the bar saw chain in the thousands of rpm. You might weigh the hot saw head and hultdins with heel to give some idea of the machine dynamics on a slope or if extra counterweighting is necessary etc. Most newer 77 000lb tracked fbs have 280-300hp and the pump drives/ pumps to handle that power/ torque (and a very large price tag too)

  3. #3Jfayen2017-01-08 13:38

    Thanks for wading through that F311fr1! I apologize for not getting back to you sooner, I have had a busy week and didn't check my email. I do have a valve schematic, and it appears that the sections have the same through porting. The travel sections and the swing section show fixed restriction orifices. I am thinking they would be inserts. The boom section shows a feed reducer. Thanks again, I am interested to hear any of your ideas.

  4. #4Jfayen2017-01-08 14:11

    Thanks Plebeian, for wading through my post, I ended up writing a book! Your input sounds great to me, That is what I was originally thinking- it would be the easiest in terms of converting. I am not sure we are talking about the same model, unfortunately the serial number plate is gone on mine. The manuals that came with it though are for an 850 and an 851,but as it has been upgraded with the rotary manifold from the rack and pinion rotator it seems that it is an 850. It is .404 chain on a 39" bar, not 3/4 pitch. The manual is calling for between 42 and 52 gpm at between 2700 and 3400 psi for the saw/tilt circuit. I did talk with an engineer at Hultdins to confirm that requirement. That's why it looks like it would be necessary to tap into the main pump, as the saw pump wouldn't deliver enough oil? I appreciate your taking the time to reply, if you have more thoughts I would sure like to take a look.

  5. #5Plebeian2017-01-08 18:14

    The first thing might be to run the Hultdins hydraulic saw motor down to a hydraulic testing shop to see what condition it is in and see how it flows etc. http://www.rwfs.co.nz/mobile/images/Hultdins-SuperSaw-Product-Guide.pdf (the big ones need lots of oil) I do not like the stacked hydraulic pumps, JD are still doing it in the 909s 260cc main pump, 60cc 2nd , 71cc 3rd. Ask TwinDisc why they make these. http://www.twindisc.com/land-based-products/pump-drives/ Either see if you can double the speed of the 20gpm existing saw pump to give 40gpm, or get the 50gpm pump off the retired TJ and have two 50 gpm pumps on separate circuits(probably only need a new high flow single 1 or 2section electric valve unit) (blank off the 20gpm section in the old unit if it flow restricting). Drive unit if probably preferable to trying to stack 50gpm pump behind the existing 50 gpm pump. It is a lot of expense, less difficult to do in a boat than the tight confines of an excvator/ fb engine/ pump area. Make a separate saw reservoir 150 liters?, drain the track/ boom tank with a saw circuit oil loss problem, fb stops. 1 US gallon = 3.785 liters, 1 Imperial gallon = 4.54 liters.

  6. #6f311fr12017-01-09 22:19

    Funk Mfg also makes multi pump drive boxes